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We Never Went to the Moon


Duane Daman
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Duane, I for one cannot wait to hear why you so strongly believe that we didn't land on the moon. I look forward to destroying your arguements and your logic. I've been busy destroying Cosmic Dave on his own site, now I have my sights set on this board!

I'd like to first start off by saying how ridiculous it is to think that the US government has the smarts to pull of such a hoax. Bush couldn't even plant a few nukes in Iraq to justify his cause for war, but NASA can make up any evidence they need to keep the hoax alive? And then you think that NASA has hired "paid dis-informationists" to populate these forums to keep people like you at bay? Sure, NASA and the US governements best weapon in keeping the secret is hiring internet trolls! What ever happend to the good old days when they just sent hired goons.

It's also interesting to note that every conspiracy or scandel that the governemnt is known to have been involved in has always been with some agency or politician doing something that they DIDN'T want people to know about (ie spending sprees, inappropriate sexual relations, wire tapping). Never is it the case that the government has claimed to have done something incredible, that was eventually proven otherwise. Does anyone here see the difference?

First of all , the US government didn't pull off this hoax ... This had nothing to do with regular polititions .... The US military/industrial complex accomplished this , along with nasa who is a part of that organization ... They are both part of the shadow government , along with the worlds's weathiest bankers ... They are known as the New World Order or the "masters of infinity" ( Lyndon Johnson's term )

President Eisenhower warned the American people that the US military /industrial complex would take over the United States if something wasn't done to stop them ... but of course nothing could be done to stop something so powerful ... So they are now , unfortunately for everyone on this planet , running the entire show .... In the 1960's and early 70's this organization orchestrated the alleged space race with the Russians , and also the alleged manned missions to the moon , known as Apollo .

Could they pull off a hoax this huge or a lie this monumental or a cover-up this long ? .... Absolutely .

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First of all , the US government didn't pull off this hoax ... This had nothing to do with regular polititions .... The US military/industrial complex accomplished this , along with nasa who is a part of that organization ... They are both part of the shadow government , along with the worlds's weathiest bankers ... They are known as the New World Order or the "masters of infinity" ( Lyndon Johnson's term )

President Eisenhower warned the American people that the US military /industrial complex would take over the United States if something wasn't done to stop them ... but of course nothing could be done to stop something so powerful ... So they are now , unfortunately for everyone on this planet , running the entire show .... In the 1960's and early 70's this organization orchestrated the alleged space race with the Russians , and also the alleged manned missions to the moon , known as Apollo .

Could they pull off a hoax this huge or a lie this monumental or a cover-up this long ? .... Absolutely .

Okay, now I see. It's all the illuminati, NWO, whatever. For some reason I do not yet fathom, they wanted to pull off a moon landing hoax. They gave the contracts to their buddies to build the stuff, and although it could actually do the job they orchestrated a hoax (which it would seem is filled with inconsistancies, anomolies, and 'whistleblowing') because they didn't want to risk failing in the attempt.

They faked all the data, and buy off all the scientists who look at that data (e.g. engineers, designers, aerodynamicists, geologists) so they won't blow the whistle on how it is faked. Meanwhile, they use subversive computer warfare to attack websites promoting a hoax theory, and have hundreds of thousands of paid disinformation agents around the world whose sole purpose is to discredit pro-hoaxers on internet chat rooms & forums.

And the only people who can spot this devilishly clever scheme are people who don't have any expertise in the related areas (aerospace engineering, physics, computing, aviation, etc).

Duane - drugs are bad, m'kay?

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I don't do drugs , m'kay ?

And obviously you have no real knowledge of the magnitude of the corruption within the organization known as the United States Military/Industrial Complex .

Whether you know anything about this or refuse to accept the reality of the existance of the shadow government , black ops programs , and government scams , lies and cover-ups , they really DO exist .. Well, in the real world anyway .... I can only imagine what type of rose tinted fantasy world you live in by your posts and of course your belief in nasa's fairy tale of having landed six manned missions on the moon almost 40 years ago .

Hello !!! ... It can't be done with today's technology, much less the conventional technology of 40 years ago .... nasa has FUTURE plans ( don't hold your breath ) of first sending UNMANNED missions to the moon ... and then they hope to send ROBOTIC missions to the moon to do guess what ? ... MEASURE THE LEVELS OF RADIATION ON THE LUNAR SURFACE TO SEE IF ANYONE CAN SET UP CAMP THERE WITHOUT BEING FRIED ALIVE ! ... And why would nasa need to do this now ? .... I guess because the Apollo astronauts didn't bother to measure it SIX TIMES !! ... Do you think it might have just slipped their minds while they were busy doing all those other important experiments and placing laser reflectors on the ground ? .. ...and then scooping up 840 lbs of moon rocks ! ...

Funny thing those moon rocks ... I keep reading conflicting stories about them on pro Apollo sites .... Some claim that the astronauts picked up ALL 840 lbs. ( funny we never got to see that on any of the 'moon' videos did we ? ) and some sites claim that the astronauts only picked up a few lbs. of rocks and the others were collected MECHANICALLY ! ... Oh really ? ... How? .... We didn't get to see any of that taking place on any of the 'moon' videos either , did we ? ... No .. but we did get to see them singing songs and bouncing around and hot dogging around in the lunar buggies.... I will see if I can find the web site where I just read this little contradiction , cuz I know how you all need proof of every single word I post .

Wake up people ... We all were duped by nasa ... Some of us just woke up to that sad little fact and some of us didn't and never will .

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As has been pointed out to you already, they did measure the radiation both before and during Apollo. What they are measuring now is for the longer stay to determine how it will affect them when they stay longer than just a few days.

Regarding the videos of them collecting rocks. Do you have all the videos available of them either from NASA or spacecraftfilms.com? Or have you just looked at the few clips available online? Not everything is or should be available online. Sometimes you might have to get off of you butt and go out to do some research. I guarantee that there is plenty of footage available of them collecting rocks. That footage is not the most interesting though so why would somebody be motivated to convert it to put online?

I doubt there is any evidence of the US collecting rocks mechanically as there is no evidence of a robotic program to do that. Perhaps you were confused when they mentioned the Soviet program?

Edited by Matthew Lewis
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How can you not get it Duane? Are you intentionally that stubborn? This has all been explained to you hundreds of times before.

NASA can certainly do it with today's technology, just like they could do it with technology 40 years ago. But you can't create a lunar program overnight, it takes time to design and build the equipment and plan the missions, and without unlimited funding, and with all the other missions nasa is running, things take longer. For comparison, just look at how long an unmanned mission takes from conception to launch. You'll find that most are over a decade, some go back as far as the 60s.

What was lost since the 70's isn't knowledge of how to do it. What was lost was the infrastructure to build the equipment they used back then. That takes time and money, in inversely proportional amounts, to recreate. Nasa's entire budget, for everything, not just the moon, for the next 15 years, is less than the cost of apollo (adjusted for inflation). It's going to take time to plan what they want to do, to find manufacturers, to design the equipment, to build it, to test it, etc.

The aren't testing the radiation conditions to see if someone can go without being fried alive. They're testing to see what is necessary for someone to stay there 50 times longer than the apollo missions stayed.

What sites claim the rocks were 'collected mechanically'? They were all collected by the astronauts, and there is plenty of footage of this (seriously, why don't you get yourself a copy of the dvds before you claim there's no footage of something).

You were duped alright, by all the CT websites that have no idea what they're talking about.

Edited by Kevin M. West
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Measuring the levels of radiation on the lunar surface is not the same thing as those personal skin dosage meters that the Apollo astronauts allegedy carried with them to make sure they weren't receiving lethal doses of radiation while strolling on the 'moon' one day ...

Today's scientists are the first one's to admit that they don't know very much about the moon at all ... and also that they have no knowledge of the amounts of radiation on the lunar surface .... So no , it was not measured during the Apollo missions .

I have been duped by no one .. Not the conspiracy researchers and more importantly not by nasa and their bogus Apollo Program .... Nor am I confusing the Russian unmanned missions with the Apollo missions and how the moon rocks were allegedy picked up ....

I have read this same information several times now , on both pro and anti nasa sites , that only a few rocks were picked up by the astronauts and the rest were gathered by mechanical means .... I will see if I can find that web site again ... They defended Apollo and ripped apart all of the conspiracy information ... Then they made the claim about how most of the rocks were gathered by mechanical means , all the while disscussing how the moon rocks were the real physical proof of nasa landing men on the moon .... Yeah , right !

Edited by Duane Daman
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Measuring the levels of radiation on the lunar surface is not the same thing as those personal skin dosage meters that the Apollo astronauts allegedy carried with them to make sure they weren't receiving lethal doses of radiation while strolling on the 'moon' one day ...

There were radiation experiments in addition to the personal dosimeters.

Today's scientists are the first one's to admit that they don't know very much about the moon at all ... and also that they have no knowledge of the amounts of radiation on the lunar surface .... So no , it was not measured during the Apollo missions .

No, they have limited knowledge about lunar radiation. With today's increased knowledge of the biological effects of radiation, and the requirement for long duration exposure, better understanding of the lunar radiation environment is required.

I have read this same information several times now , on both pro and anti nasa sites , that only a few rocks were picked up by the astronauts and the rest were gathered by mechanical means .... I will see if I can find that web site again ... They defended Apollo and ripped apart all of the conspiracy information ... Then they made the claim about how most of the rocks were gathered by mechanical means , all the while disscussing how the moon rocks were the real physical proof of nasa landing men on the moon .... Yeah , right !

ALL the Apollo lunar samples were retrieved by "hand". They may have used a hand-operated grabber to pick some up (like a pair of tongs), but none of the Apollo samples were recovered remotely. They took heaps of images of the samples in place so they would have the sample's context. Sometimes they used a geologist's hammer. Sometimes they used the tongs. Sometimes it was a soil sample using the contingency bag. Sometimes it was core samples from drilling into lunar surface.

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Where is there any evidence that any of the Apollo astronauts ever measured the radiation levels on the lunar surface ? .... I can't find any ... And if you have this evidence, what were the levels ? ... According this article , it hasn't been measured before and considering the fact that the entire lunar surface is RADIOACTIVE , I think scientists are going to find that the moon is extremely dangerous for humans to walk upon.

Here is an excerpt from an article called ... 'Radioactive Moon'

To carefully measure and map the Moon's radiation environment, NASA is developing a robotic probe to orbit the Moon beginning in 2008. Called the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), this scout will pave the way for future human missions not only by measuring space radiation, but also by hunting for frozen water and mapping the Moon's surface in unprecedented detail. LRO is a key part of NASA's Robotic Lunar Exploration Program, managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center.

One of the instruments onboard LRO is the Cosmic Ray Telescope for the Effects of Radiation (CRaTER).

"Not only will we measure the radiation, we will use plastics that mimic human tissue to look at how these highly energetic particles penetrate and interact with the human body," says Spence, who is the Principal Investigator for CRaTER.

By placing the radiation detectors in CRaTER behind various thicknesses of a special plastic that has similar density and composition to human tissue, Spence and his colleagues will provide much-needed data: Except for quick trips to the Moon during the Apollo program, most human spaceflight has occurred near Earth where our planet's magnetic field provides a natural shield. In low-Earth orbit, the most dangerous forms of space radiation are relatively rare. That's good for astronauts, but it leaves researchers with many unanswered questions about what radiation does to human tissue. CRaTER will help fill in the gaps.

Right: The CRaTER telescope consists of silicon radiation detectors (red) mounted on detector boards (green), separated by pieces of "tissue-equivalent" plastic (tan). [More]

Out in deep space, radiation comes from all directions. On the Moon, you might expect the ground, at least, to provide some relief, with the solid body of the Moon blocking radiation from below. Not so.

When galactic cosmic rays collide with particles in the lunar surface, they trigger little nuclear reactions that release yet more radiation in the form of neutrons. The lunar surface itself is radioactive!

So which is worse for astronauts: cosmic rays from above or neutrons from below? Igor Mitrofanov, a scientist at the Institute for Space Research and the Russian Federal Space Agency, Moscow, offers a grim answer: "Both are worse."

Mitrofanov is Principle Investigator for the other radiation-sensing instrument on LRO, the Lunar Exploration Neutron Detector (LEND), which is partially funded by the Russian Federal Space Agency. By using an isotope of helium that's missing one neutron, LEND will be able to detect neutron radiation emanating from the lunar surface and measure how energetic those neutrons are.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/08...oactivemoon.htm

...................................................

I will see if I can find the articles again claiming that the moon rocks were gathered mechanically, except for a few lbs. which nasa claims were picked up by the astronauts .... But with all that the astronauts had to do , including singing, romping, cavorting around in their lunar buggies and taking litterly THOUSANDS of fascinating photos, did they really have time to pick up 840 lbs. of moon rocks by hand during their short stints on the 'lunar' surface ? ... I highly doubt it .

..........................................................

And here is part of another article written by a scientist who doesn't believe that astronauts ever walked on the moon or that nasa ever measured the radiation levels on the moon during the Apollo missions .

NASA wants to measure radiation on the moon

NASA is planning to send astronauts to the moon by the year 2020. However, before they send people to the moon, they want to measure the radiation levels on the moon with an unmanned probe named CRaTER:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/08...oactivemoon.htm

Didn't NASA measure radiation levels in the 1960s?

NASA sent several Surveyor probes to the moon during the 1960s before sending the Apollo astronauts:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/surveyor.html

NASA claims the purpose of the probes was to analyze the moon's surface. At the time those probes landed on the moon, nobody knew whether the moon's surface was hard enough for people to walk on. Some people wondered if areas on the moon were covered with such a thick layer of powder that the Apollo spacecraft would sink into it.

The surveyor probes showed that it was possible to land a spacecraft on the moon because the surface was crushed rocks, not deep, soft powder.

NASA admits that the Surveyor 6 measured solar protons and cosmic rays:

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/Master...7-112A&ex=2

What did the probe determine? Were the solar protons and cosmic rays at such a low level that the astronauts would be safe? Why is NASA so secretive about radiation levels in outer space?

After discovering that the moon was safe to walk on, NASA claims to have sent six teams of astronauts to the moon. They landed in six different locations. However, none of them bothered to measure the radiation.

NASA claims that the Apollo astronauts never bothered to measure radiation levels because they were on the moon for only a couple days. A more likely explanation for why the astronauts never measured radiation levels on the moon is because they never went to the moon.

Furthermore, it is possible that the surveyor probe discovered that radiation levels on the moon were so high that no astronaut could possibly survive in those thin spacesuits and that lousy lunar lander. Perhaps NASA classified all the radiation measurements as “Top Secret” so that we do not realize that outer space is dangerous.

http://www.erichufschmid.net/MoreInfoForSc...eChallenge.html

Edited by Duane Daman
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Where is there any evidence that any of the Apollo astronauts ever measured the radiation levels on the lunar surface ? .... I can't find any ... And if you have this evidence, what were the levels ?

Duane - you actively participated in a thread on radiation just a few short weeks ago - I'll link it here in case you missed the posts that answered your questions.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=8688&st=45

Quick reminder - each astronaut carried 4 devices for measuring their own personal dosage. You were supplied with plenty of supporting data for this.

... According this article , it hasn't been measured before and considering the fact that the entire lunar surface is RADIOACTIVE , I think scientists are going to find that the moon is extremely dangerous for humans to walk upon.
The article makes no such claim - at least I couldn't find a reference in your excerpt. Neither could I find a reference to that in the article itself. I did find this direct quote:-
"We really need to know more about the radiation environment on the Moon, especially if people will be staying there for more than just a few days," says Harlan Spence, a professor of astronomy at Boston University.

OK, so NASA want to know more about the radiation environment. Seems very sensible to me, especially with plans for a long term lunar base.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/08...oactivemoon.htm

And here is part of another article written by a scientist who doesn't believe that astronauts ever walked on the moon or that nasa ever measured the radiation levels on the moon during the Apollo missions .

<snip>

The article you link to is written by Eric Hufschmid. Why do you give the impression that he is a scientist, presumably qualified to talk about lunar radiation? Do you know what science qualifications he has? Here is a short Bio I found on him here:-
Bio

Eric Hufschmid lost interest in school and the media during high school. He felt that the world was designed for people with the mind of a 12 year old. He decided that when he left home at age 19, he would never get a television or subscribe to any publications. He never bothered going to college. After a few years of working ordinary jobs he took a short course in computer programming, and eventually ended up in business for himself developing CAD/CAM software.

After he noticed suspicious aspects of the September 11th attack, he sent email to professors, scientists, engineers, and other people to look into the attack. Nobody showed any interest, so he decided to publish his analysis of the September 11th Attack. His book is referenced by people around the world to support the accusation that the conspiracy is much larger than 19 Arabs. Today Eric thinks that the reason schools and the media are so idiotic is because there is a deliberate attempt to deceive people about the crimes that are occurring.

So much for him being a "scientist" then. Although his "Science Challenges" are good for a laugh.

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I can't figure out if you are being deliberately ignorant about this or not; in any case, I'm not going to go too far out of my way to try and educate you anymore.

You have been told about the experiments that were left on the surface, and the personal dosimeters. You have been given links to where you can research the subject. If you do some research instead of simply parroting conspiracy websites, here is what you'll find:

THE COSMIC-RAY AND SOLAR FLARE BOMBARDMENT OF THE MOON

J. Damico, J. Defelice, E.L. Fireman

NASA

1 JAN 1970

NUCLEAR EMULSION RECORDINGS OF THE ASTRONAUTS RADIATION EXPOSURE ON THE FIRST LUNAR LANDING APOLLO 11

H.J. Schaefer, J.J. Sullivan

NASA

29 JUN 1970

MEASUREMENT OF RADIATION EXPOSURE OF ASTRONAUTS BY RADIOCHEMICAL TECHNIQUES

R.L. Brodzinski

NASA

15 JAN 1971

15 APR 1972

(Quarterly publication)

HEAVY COSMIC RAY EXPOSURE OF APOLLO ASTRONAUTS

E.V. Benton, R.P. Henke, J.V. Bailey

Johnson Space Centre

24 JAN 1975

These are just some of the publications freely available to anyone who wants to research the subject.

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I found one of the articles which states that the Apollo astronauts only picked up a couple of pounds of rocks by hand and that the rest were collected "automatically" .... This web site attempts to refute all of the conspiracy information and this was one of it's 'rebuttals' to the hoax proponent's belief that the moon rocks really come for the Antarctic .

"3. ( hoax claim) The rocks brought back from the Moon are identical to rocks collected by scientific expeditions to Antarctica. "

( rebuttal ) Chemical analysis of the rocks confirms a different oxygen isotopic composition and a surprising lack of volatile elements. There are only a few 'identical' rocks, and those few fell as meteorites after being ejected from the Moon during impact cratering events. The total quantity of these 'Lunar Meteorites' is small compared to the more than 840 lb (380 kg) of lunar samples returned by Apollo (although NASA states that only a couple of pounds were actually picked up by astronauts, the rest being collected automatically). Also the Apollo lunar soil samples chemically matched the Russian luna space probe's lunar soil samples.

http://experts.about.com/e/a/ap/apollo_moo...accusations.htm

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I found one of the articles which states that the Apollo astronauts only picked up a couple of pounds of rocks by hand and that the rest were collected "automatically" .... This web site attempts to refute all of the conspiracy information and this was one of it's 'rebuttals' to the hoax proponent's belief that the moon rocks really come for the Antarctic .

"3. ( hoax claim) The rocks brought back from the Moon are identical to rocks collected by scientific expeditions to Antarctica. "

( rebuttal ) Chemical analysis of the rocks confirms a different oxygen isotopic composition and a surprising lack of volatile elements. There are only a few 'identical' rocks, and those few fell as meteorites after being ejected from the Moon during impact cratering events. The total quantity of these 'Lunar Meteorites' is small compared to the more than 840 lb (380 kg) of lunar samples returned by Apollo (although NASA states that only a couple of pounds were actually picked up by astronauts, the rest being collected automatically). Also the Apollo lunar soil samples chemically matched the Russian luna space probe's lunar soil samples.

http://experts.about.com/e/a/ap/apollo_moo...accusations.htm

I would state they are wrong in that assertion. (I suspect they have mis-represented what is actually said). Without a link to the article being referred to one can only speculate.

Do they mean that only a few pounds of rocks were picked up by hand (i.e. gloved hand), and the rest using scoops and sample tongs? I don't really know. What we do know is that the Astronauts brought back 380kg on the six Apollo missions.

Just done some very quick research on the website itself - apparently it's a snapshot of a Wikipedia article taken at a certian point in time. The claim you mentioned has been corrected in the current version here.

3. The rocks brought back from the Moon are identical to rocks collected by scientific expeditions to Antarctica.

Chemical analysis of the rocks confirms a different oxygen isotopic composition and a surprising lack of volatile elements. There are only a few 'identical' rocks, and those few fell as meteorites after being ejected from the Moon during impact cratering events. The total quantity of these 'lunar meteorites' is small compared to the more than 840 lb (380 kg) of lunar samples returned by Apollo. Also the Apollo lunar soil samples chemically matched the Russian Luna space probe’s lunar soil samples.

There is a disclaimer about the validity of the information on the AllExperts site here.

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Double post...

Edited by Dave Greer
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I find it interesting that they don't have a source for that statement when the rest of the page seems to be well sourced.

I find it unlikely that NASA would ever say something like that when they do say that these Apollo missions returned these amounts.

Apollo 11 - 22 kg

Apollo 12 - 34 kg

Apollo 14 - 43 kg

Apollo 15 - 77 kg

Apollo 16 - 95 kg

Apollo 17 - 111 kg

Unless my math is way off, all of those added together is 382 kilograms or 842 pounds.

These are also backed up by the pictures and videos of them being collected as well as the ALSJ.

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