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Did Oswald own a rifle ?


Charles Black
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Tho the title of this thread may sound a little elementary, it has provoked in me considerable thought over the years.

While in custody, LHO was asked "do you own a rifle"?.....to which he responded "No".

I feel that it is highly likely that his answer may have been the absolute truth. I feel that he was offered well prior to 11/22, an amount of money for the purchase of his rifle, that was high enough above the rifle's actual value, that "he could not refuse".

This offer, of course would have been sponsored by the conspirators, so that they may have been in the position 1) to test fire the rifle and acquire spent bullets with the proper rifling, produce the "magic bullet", and "secret" the rifle somewhere within the TSBD building where it could have been hidden until 11/22.

Regarding Wesley Frazier, his sister Linie Mae, and the package that was "too small", this still has me confused . Wes was absolutely not the sharpest tack in the box, but I believe their assistance may have been pre purchased......and not being the sharpest tack, Wes "goofed up" in describing the package.

Since I am offering nothing more than "personal conjecture" in this thread, with nothing factual to support it, I will take another "giant leap", again that is pure conjecture.

I feel that the curtain rods story was some kind of afterthought. I feel that Lee "could have" been lured to visit Marina by having been given information by Wes, or someone else, that Marina was entertaining a male guest every Thursday evening.

Since I am this far out in "neverland".....suppose that male guest was said to have been FBI agent James Hosty. Remember the destroyed "Oswald note" of a week prior.

There is so much pure speculation here, that I can understand if members fail to respond to this

"hypothesis" ?

Charlie Black

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Tho the title of this thread may sound a little elementary, it has provoked in me considerable thought over the years.

While in custody, LHO was asked "do you own a rifle"?.....to which he responded "No".

I feel that it is highly likely that his answer may have been the absolute truth. I feel that he was offered well prior to 11/22, an amount of money for the purchase of his rifle, that was high enough above the rifle's actual value, that "he could not refuse".

This offer, of course would have been sponsored by the conspirators, so that they may have been in the position 1) to test fire the rifle and acquire spent bullets with the proper rifling, produce the "magic bullet", and "secret" the rifle somewhere within the TSBD building where it could have been hidden until 11/22.

Regarding Wesley Frazier, his sister Linie Mae, and the package that was "too small", this still has me confused . Wes was absolutely not the sharpest tack in the box, but I believe their assistance may have been pre purchased......and not being the sharpest tack, Wes "goofed up" in describing the package.

Since I am offering nothing more than "personal conjecture" in this thread, with nothing factual to support it, I will take another "giant leap", again that is pure conjecture.

I feel that the curtain rods story was some kind of afterthought. I feel that Lee "could have" been lured to visit Marina by having been given information by Wes, or someone else, that Marina was entertaining a male guest every Thursday evening.

Since I am this far out in "neverland".....suppose that male guest was said to have been FBI agent James Hosty. Remember the destroyed "Oswald note" of a week prior.

There is so much pure speculation here, that I can understand if members fail to respond to this

"hypothesis" ?

Charlie Black

There is so much pure speculation here, that I can understand if members fail to respond to this

"hypothesis" ?

Charlie Black

oxymoron: a combination of contradictory words.

Sort of like: "Military Intelligence"

Pure speculative thoughts as regards how one "feels", has little basis in development of an acceptable hypothesis, and is most commonly referred to as a "WAG"!

(Wild A**ed Guess)

However, at least you thoroughly demonstrated this, and thus the reply.

Since I am offering nothing more than "personal conjecture" in this thread, with nothing factual to support it, I will take another "giant leap", again that is pure conjecture

And because of this, perhaps this thread should be kept alive, as it it long overdue to explain a few items in regards to the training and exposure to which LHO would have been exposed, as well as what just may ultimately be an essential element of information (EEI) in determination of the "paper bag" problem.

By now, I would have thought that some of the ex-GI's and/or USMC personnel would have understood the potential significance of certain items of evidence as relates to the Carcano.

It is completely understandable that "born & bred" civillians would not recognize certain items, but for current and/or ex-military personnel to not do so, demonstrates the "blinder effect"/tunnel vision which often surrounds many of the aspects of the legitimate questions.

Anyone care to re-post the photo of Lt. Day holding the Carcano rifle up in the air in order that a discussion can proceed?

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I feel that he [LHO] was offered well prior to 11/22, an amount of money for the purchase of his rifle, that was high enough above the rifle's actual value, that "he could not refuse".

There is so much pure speculation here, that I can understand if members fail to respond to this

"hypothesis" ?

Charlie Black

I don't think this answer is any more speculative than the WC theory. Supposedly LHO packed the rifle in a navy bag which Ruth Paine brought to Dallas. No one saw a rifle when the bag was unpacked, and the only indication that there was a rifle in the garage comes from Marina, who saw a piece of wood that she assumed was part of Lee's rifle. Marina knew nothing about guns - to her they were just metal and wood (she did not see any metal, as I recall).

Wesley Liebler was understating things when he said that nobody on this planet could put THAT rifle in that garage. In fact, nobody could put ANY rifle in that garage in the period before the assassination.

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Tom Purvis

has I suppose entered this thread as an excuse to probably for the ten thousandth time, to re-re-re-re-explain to us, his famous "TWIG THEORY".

Per usual, I expect that Tom will take over this thread by posting so much gibberish that anyone wanting to correspond will be disuaded by knowing that they must re-re-read Tom's ridiculous BS about twigs separating FMJ bullets from their core.

Tom finds it necessary to post a military photo of himself in uniform to impress those of you without military experience. The truth is, that the picture of Tom is no doubt at least thirty years old !

Tom, there are many on this forum, including myself that would probably put your military experience to shame!

Several years ago I complained to the forum administration that Tom Purvis was monopolizing this forum by having eleven different posts...all on the same topics....which of course were the twig theory and his Dealey Plaza land surveys.

His apparent distaste for my complaint has apparently not been forgotten, so he frquently spews venom whenever he sees my name.

To the rest of the forum, I apologize. I well realized and so stated that what I was posting was speculation. However, most of what we each believe regarding 11/22/63 is in fact speculative. There are a "few facts" which most of us accept, and from there we attempt in our minds to construct a scenario. I am an "out of the box" type thinker. I see no point in attempting to impress some very learned members of this forum by "parroting" back and forth much of the same gibberish that has been parroted back and forth for forty years.

I will "pat myself on the back" by saying that my speculation, if given some thought, makes much more sense than many. If we do not speculate...what should we do? I do not foresee earth shattering evidence being made available to the research community in any reasonable period of time.

I feel that we should take what we have in hand and see how much that we can build with it.

As for Tom Purvis.....I expect this to be the last time that I will ever type his name.

Charlie Black

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Tom Purvis

has I suppose entered this thread as an excuse to probably for the ten thousandth time, to re-re-re-re-explain to us, his famous "TWIG THEORY".

Per usual, I expect that Tom will take over this thread by posting so much gibberish that anyone wanting to correspond will be disuaded by knowing that they must re-re-read Tom's ridiculous BS about twigs separating FMJ bullets from their core.

Tom finds it necessary to post a military photo of himself in uniform to impress those of you without military experience. The truth is, that the picture of Tom is no doubt at least thirty years old !

Tom, there are many on this forum, including myself that would probably put your military experience to shame!

Several years ago I complained to the forum administration that Tom Purvis was monopolizing this forum by having eleven different posts...all on the same topics....which of course were the twig theory and his Dealey Plaza land surveys.

His apparent distaste for my complaint has apparently not been forgotten, so he frquently spews venom whenever he sees my name.

To the rest of the forum, I apologize. I well realized and so stated that what I was posting was speculation. However, most of what we each believe regarding 11/22/63 is in fact speculative. There are a "few facts" which most of us accept, and from there we attempt in our minds to construct a scenario. I am an "out of the box" type thinker. I see no point in attempting to impress some very learned members of this forum by "parroting" back and forth much of the same gibberish that has been parroted back and forth for forty years.

I will "pat myself on the back" by saying that my speculation, if given some thought, makes much more sense than many. If we do not speculate...what should we do? I do not foresee earth shattering evidence being made available to the research community in any reasonable period of time.

I feel that we should take what we have in hand and see how much that we can build with it.

As for Tom Purvis.....I expect this to be the last time that I will ever type his name.

Charlie Black

Charlie, Thanks for the post. This subject has been disscussed, and im sure it wont be the last. [but well worth talking about] I believe he never owned the gun, or had any connection to it. For starters, the gun had no prints on it, "anywhere", except those that Day said he supposedly "found" under the stock, after the FBI already said there were none. Day couldnt even prove the prints were there, after claiming he had found them. They couldnt produce his actual "order form" for the gun, and no other proof he actually recieved it positively. [it was all fabricated] Marina wouldnt have known a gun from a shovel! Anything she claimed, as to Oswald owning a rifle, was coerced from the authorities. Probably with the deportation threat. When she finally testified, she had her testimony down pat, after being very well prepped to everything she had to say to 'convict" her husband. The clincher was to say that he was to have used the rifle to take a "pot-shot" at Walker with it! As far as "curtain rods" who knows. it surely wasnt a gun. same for the "paper".The authorities and later [the Warren Commision] had an easy time tying him to the gun, after the rifle range set up [and making a scene there], getting the scope mounted/sighted/shimmed [take your pick], and the icing on the cake, "finding" the hidden "alledged assassins weapon" in the building, on the floor where he was working! All of this BS was shoveled down the throats of a shaken, distraught, believing, country. I cant remember where i read it, but someone [dont hold me to it] in the CIA?? was told to order several M/Carcanos at some point, and that person was really puzzled by that request at the time. [maybe someone can fill me in on that episode, where it was written, and correct me if im wrong] All in all, it was a joke from the start. I think you could probably say the same thing about his ".38 Special". [the one that may have been "planted/taken from him in the theatre as he was arrested] Anyway Charlie, [as i always try to end MY posts] Just MY opinion, FWIW. LOL!

thanks-smitty

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Tom Purvis

has I suppose entered this thread as an excuse to probably for the ten thousandth time, to re-re-re-re-explain to us, his famous "TWIG THEORY".

Per usual, I expect that Tom will take over this thread by posting so much gibberish that anyone wanting to correspond will be disuaded by knowing that they must re-re-read Tom's ridiculous BS about twigs separating FMJ bullets from their core.

Tom finds it necessary to post a military photo of himself in uniform to impress those of you without military experience. The truth is, that the picture of Tom is no doubt at least thirty years old !

Tom, there are many on this forum, including myself that would probably put your military experience to shame!

Several years ago I complained to the forum administration that Tom Purvis was monopolizing this forum by having eleven different posts...all on the same topics....which of course were the twig theory and his Dealey Plaza land surveys.

His apparent distaste for my complaint has apparently not been forgotten, so he frquently spews venom whenever he sees my name.

To the rest of the forum, I apologize. I well realized and so stated that what I was posting was speculation. However, most of what we each believe regarding 11/22/63 is in fact speculative. There are a "few facts" which most of us accept, and from there we attempt in our minds to construct a scenario. I am an "out of the box" type thinker. I see no point in attempting to impress some very learned members of this forum by "parroting" back and forth much of the same gibberish that has been parroted back and forth for forty years.

I will "pat myself on the back" by saying that my speculation, if given some thought, makes much more sense than many. If we do not speculate...what should we do? I do not foresee earth shattering evidence being made available to the research community in any reasonable period of time.

I feel that we should take what we have in hand and see how much that we can build with it.

As for Tom Purvis.....I expect this to be the last time that I will ever type his name.

Charlie Black

Charlie, Thanks for the post. This subject has been disscussed, and im sure it wont be the last. [but well worth talking about] I believe he never owned the gun, or had any connection to it. For starters, the gun had no prints on it, "anywhere", except those that Day said he supposedly "found" under the stock, after the FBI already said there were none. Day couldnt even prove the prints were there, after claiming he had found them. They couldnt produce his actual "order form" for the gun, and no other proof he actually recieved it positively. [it was all fabricated] Marina wouldnt have known a gun from a shovel! Anything she claimed, as to Oswald owning a rifle, was coerced from the authorities. Probably with the deportation threat. When she finally testified, she had her testimony down pat, after being very well prepped to everything she had to say to 'convict" her husband. The clincher was to say that he was to have used the rifle to take a "pot-shot" at Walker with it! As far as "curtain rods" who knows. it surely wasnt a gun. same for the "paper".The authorities and later [the Warren Commision] had an easy time tying him to the gun, after the rifle range set up [and making a scene there], getting the scope mounted/sighted/shimmed [take your pick], and the icing on the cake, "finding" the hidden "alledged assassins weapon" in the building, on the floor where he was working! All of this BS was shoveled down the throats of a shaken, distraught, believing, country. I cant remember where i read it, but someone [dont hold me to it] in the CIA?? was told to order several M/Carcanos at some point, and that person was really puzzled by that request at the time. [maybe someone can fill me in on that episode, where it was written, and correct me if im wrong] All in all, it was a joke from the start. I think you could probably say the same thing about his ".38 Special". [the one that may have been "planted/taken from him in the theatre as he was arrested] Anyway Charlie, [as i always try to end MY posts] Just MY opinion, FWIW. LOL!

thanks-smitty

The multiple Carcano order of the CIA is described by former agent Robert Morrow in his book BETRAYAL.

Jack

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Tom Purvis

has I suppose entered this thread as an excuse to probably for the ten thousandth time, to re-re-re-re-explain to us, his famous "TWIG THEORY".

Per usual, I expect that Tom will take over this thread by posting so much gibberish that anyone wanting to correspond will be disuaded by knowing that they must re-re-read Tom's ridiculous BS about twigs separating FMJ bullets from their core.

Tom finds it necessary to post a military photo of himself in uniform to impress those of you without military experience. The truth is, that the picture of Tom is no doubt at least thirty years old !

Tom, there are many on this forum, including myself that would probably put your military experience to shame!

Several years ago I complained to the forum administration that Tom Purvis was monopolizing this forum by having eleven different posts...all on the same topics....which of course were the twig theory and his Dealey Plaza land surveys.

His apparent distaste for my complaint has apparently not been forgotten, so he frquently spews venom whenever he sees my name.

To the rest of the forum, I apologize. I well realized and so stated that what I was posting was speculation. However, most of what we each believe regarding 11/22/63 is in fact speculative. There are a "few facts" which most of us accept, and from there we attempt in our minds to construct a scenario. I am an "out of the box" type thinker. I see no point in attempting to impress some very learned members of this forum by "parroting" back and forth much of the same gibberish that has been parroted back and forth for forty years.

I will "pat myself on the back" by saying that my speculation, if given some thought, makes much more sense than many. If we do not speculate...what should we do? I do not foresee earth shattering evidence being made available to the research community in any reasonable period of time.

I feel that we should take what we have in hand and see how much that we can build with it.

As for Tom Purvis.....I expect this to be the last time that I will ever type his name.

Charlie Black

Charlie, Thanks for the post. This subject has been disscussed, and im sure it wont be the last. [but well worth talking about] I believe he never owned the gun, or had any connection to it. For starters, the gun had no prints on it, "anywhere", except those that Day said he supposedly "found" under the stock, after the FBI already said there were none. Day couldnt even prove the prints were there, after claiming he had found them. They couldnt produce his actual "order form" for the gun, and no other proof he actually recieved it positively. [it was all fabricated] Marina wouldnt have known a gun from a shovel! Anything she claimed, as to Oswald owning a rifle, was coerced from the authorities. Probably with the deportation threat. When she finally testified, she had her testimony down pat, after being very well prepped to everything she had to say to 'convict" her husband. The clincher was to say that he was to have used the rifle to take a "pot-shot" at Walker with it! As far as "curtain rods" who knows. it surely wasnt a gun. same for the "paper".The authorities and later [the Warren Commision] had an easy time tying him to the gun, after the rifle range set up [and making a scene there], getting the scope mounted/sighted/shimmed [take your pick], and the icing on the cake, "finding" the hidden "alledged assassins weapon" in the building, on the floor where he was working! All of this BS was shoveled down the throats of a shaken, distraught, believing, country. I cant remember where i read it, but someone [dont hold me to it] in the CIA?? was told to order several M/Carcanos at some point, and that person was really puzzled by that request at the time. [maybe someone can fill me in on that episode, where it was written, and correct me if im wrong] All in all, it was a joke from the start. I think you could probably say the same thing about his ".38 Special". [the one that may have been "planted/taken from him in the theatre as he was arrested] Anyway Charlie, [as i always try to end MY posts] Just MY opinion, FWIW. LOL!

thanks-smitty

The multiple Carcano order of the CIA is described by former agent Robert Morrow in his book BETRAYAL.

Jack

Thanks Jack. I will check it out again. I just couldnt remember where i saw it.

thanks-smitty

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Tom Purvis

has I suppose entered this thread as an excuse to probably for the ten thousandth time, to re-re-re-re-explain to us, his famous "TWIG THEORY".

Per usual, I expect that Tom will take over this thread by posting so much gibberish that anyone wanting to correspond will be disuaded by knowing that they must re-re-read Tom's ridiculous BS about twigs separating FMJ bullets from their core.

Tom finds it necessary to post a military photo of himself in uniform to impress those of you without military experience. The truth is, that the picture of Tom is no doubt at least thirty years old !

Tom, there are many on this forum, including myself that would probably put your military experience to shame!

Several years ago I complained to the forum administration that Tom Purvis was monopolizing this forum by having eleven different posts...all on the same topics....which of course were the twig theory and his Dealey Plaza land surveys.

His apparent distaste for my complaint has apparently not been forgotten, so he frquently spews venom whenever he sees my name.

To the rest of the forum, I apologize. I well realized and so stated that what I was posting was speculation. However, most of what we each believe regarding 11/22/63 is in fact speculative. There are a "few facts" which most of us accept, and from there we attempt in our minds to construct a scenario. I am an "out of the box" type thinker. I see no point in attempting to impress some very learned members of this forum by "parroting" back and forth much of the same gibberish that has been parroted back and forth for forty years.

I will "pat myself on the back" by saying that my speculation, if given some thought, makes much more sense than many. If we do not speculate...what should we do? I do not foresee earth shattering evidence being made available to the research community in any reasonable period of time.

I feel that we should take what we have in hand and see how much that we can build with it.

As for Tom Purvis.....I expect this to be the last time that I will ever type his name.

Charlie Black

Per usual, I expect that Tom will take over this thread by posting so much gibberish

gibberish: unintelligible or confused speech or language

they must re-re-read Tom's ridiculous BS about twigs separating FMJ bullets from their core

Which clearly demonstrates exactly who can not even, it would appear, decipher drawings and photo;'s, not to mention comprehend the written word.

(It would appear that you have me confused with "Posner". (must be because both last names begin with "P")

There are a "few facts" which most of us accept,

Actually, there exists a tremendous amount of factual evidence. This is to include physical evidence as well as excellent supportive witness statements and testimony.

However, if one suffers from dyslexia or some other form of reading comprehension problem, then quite obviously the written word as well as drawings and pictures, come through as "gibberish".

Therefore, forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical fact present nothing for them to evaluate.

Tom finds it necessary to post a military photo of himself in uniform to impress those of you without military experience. The truth is, that the picture of Tom is no doubt at least thirty years old !

Try closer to 40. And, if recalled, Tom has repeatedly asked that no one believe anything claimed. Rather, for those who have the capability for deductive reasoning; logical thought process; reading comprehension; and proper research methods and application; that they ignore what "Tom" has to say and thereafter research and determine the FACTS for themselves.

which of course were the twig theory and his Dealey Plaza land surveys.

Since I have never personally done any survey work in any of my visits to Dealy Plaza, and Mr. West clearly has his title and name on the survey work which he did, and of which I am now providing, it is most unlikely that any of this constitutes "his Dealy Plaza land surveys."

And, it was "limbs" which Mr. West observed the members of the WC re-enactment cutting and removing from the top of the Live Oak tree which is located directly in the line-of-fire from the sixth floor window of the TSDB, not "twigs".

All of which continues to demonstrate why you apparantly must deal with pure speculation and speculative "theory", as the simple and basic facts seem to have escaped you.

Which becomes quite evident when the statement: "Tom's ridiculous BS about twigs separating FMJ bullets from their core. "

is also taken into consideration.

I will "pat myself on the back" by saying that my speculation, if given some thought, makes much more sense than many. If we do not speculate...what should we do? I do not foresee earth shattering evidence being made available to the research community in any reasonable period of time.

And there can be little doubt that many others will help you with your "attaboy's".

Speculation happens to be an important part of problem resolution. However, when there is virtually zero evidence to support speculative theories, and one thereafter bases an additional portion of the problem resolution on a previously speculative (and usually erroneous) theory, only to continue with same, then they end up with:

Multiple assassins and body snatchers!

As opposed to the facts!

Thereafter, the ego must protect the individual and he must:

A. Admit that they are just incapable of resolving the issue from the known and available facts and information, and move on in life.

B. Make up speculative theories and thereafter offer multiple excuses as to why they can not resolve the known and available facts into some form of logical and cohesive problem resolution, of which the excuses often includes blaming the big, bad ole U.S. Government/CIA/FBI, etc; for the individual's failure to evaluate, comprehend, determine, and place into perspective what these facts and evidence actually represents.

I feel that we should take what we have in hand and see how much that we can build with it.

Which is about like stating that one has a hand full of bovine feces, and now, lets make a cherry pie!

Good luck!

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Hello all

Can anyone understand why the FBI would have wanted Oswald's note destroyed?

If it was a malicious threat against the FBI or the FBI facility as has been offered, I would not think that the FBI would want the note destroyed....as it would tend to indicate mental imbalalance on the part of Oswald. If Oswald were an FBI asset or informer, it is highly unlikely that he would have attempted to communicate anything, mission related, in such a manner.

I feel that it was something very personal, addressed to only Hosty. We know that Hosty had visited the Paine household. We however don't know, how often and under what circumstances.

If Hosty nad seen or had attempted to have seen Marina on several occassions.....for whatever reason......it would have outraged Oswald.

It would also have possibly caused Hosty's censure

for poor judgement or..."conduct unbecoming a Special Agent for the FBI" !

I can think of no other reason to destroy the note.

Of course, it is possible that Oswald was "stupid enough" to discuss classified FBI operations via a hand written and personally delivered note !

However, I definitely don't think he was. Of course this is only "more speculation".

Charlie Black

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