The Oak Cliff "Safe Houses"

[Larry Hancock]

Good work Tommy and we can independently confirm that....check pages 78 and 79 in SWHT. Actually my source was a very interesting but limited print bio on Buddy Walthers by

Eric Tagg titled Brush with Destiny, he confirmed the location and the story with Walthers family.

To expand on the matter a bit, that house was in no way a "safe house" for anybody - that is a really overused term but I won't belabor the point here. It was a house rented as

you describe above and simply visited, starting a week or two before the assassination by a considerable number of Cuban exiles affiliated with both DRE and Alpha 66.

Some of those exiles were clearly under observation by the FBI in the sting they were running on Mason (courtesy of Nonte as an informant), one of the Alpha 66 types was also

a voluntary FBI informant but as I point out in the book most likely would better have been considered a suspect. There is some reason the FBI may have actually had the

house under observation.

Anyway, Walther's mother in law commented that many of the visits were late at night and that one visitor resembled Oswald...that is quite interesting since the timing of that

observation fits well with Hosty's remark about Oswald being seen with "subversives", now how would Hosty know that? He might well have known it because the actually

FBI agent running CI on such folks including the exiles was named Heitman....interestingly enough Heitman was pulled off some investigations he was doing and assigned

to the JFK investigation for some six months after the assassination. Now you might wonder why it would take months since the FBI made their report in weeks? And what

Heitman was doing all those months since Oswald was not his beat. Well so do I...grin. One might also wonder why none of Heitman's pre assassination reports are

available....or for that matter why very little is available on the exile community in Dallas pre-assassination.

Since I don't get to do wild speculation that often, I'll just make a guess that the explanation might be that Lee Oswald might have indeed been dangled to Cuban exiles

in Dallas who were engaged in guy buying, a major focus for the FBI at the time and one having nothing to do with Hosty. Indeed, as in New Orleans, Oswald's

informant file in such matters would have been held very separate from his case file, the one Hosty would have had access to. And Hosty's remark about the subversives

an that investigation being communicated to the Secret Service...which it was not...was innocent enough when he made it since he would have had no idea of the

real implications.

Hosty was a nice fellow and very open to talking, the only thing I never got him to comment on in our chats was the copy of the document on his remarks about subversives

that I provided to him.

-- Larry

[Thomas Graves]

Good work Tommy and we can independently confirm that....check pages 78 and 79 in SWHT. Actually my source was a very interesting but limited print bio on Buddy Walthers by

Eric Tagg titled Brush with Destiny, he confirmed the location and the story with Walthers family.

To expand on the matter a bit, that house was in no way a "safe house" for anybody - that is a really overused term but I won't belabor the point here. It was a house rented as

you describe above and simply visited, starting a week or two before the assassination by a considerable number of Cuban exiles affiliated with both DRE and Alpha 66.

Some of those exiles were clearly under observation by the FBI in the sting they were running on Mason (courtesy of Nonte as an informant), one of the Alpha 66 types was also

a voluntary FBI informant but as I point out in the book most likely would better have been considered a suspect. There is some reason the FBI may have actually had the

house under observation.

Anyway, Walther's mother in law commented that many of the visits were late at night and that one visitor resembled Oswald...that is quite interesting since the timing of that

observation fits well with Hosty's remark about Oswald being seen with "subversives", now how would Hosty know that? He might well have known it because the actually

FBI agent running CI on such folks including the exiles was named Heitman....interestingly enough Heitman was pulled off some investigations he was doing and assigned

to the JFK investigation for some six months after the assassination. Now you might wonder why it would take months since the FBI made their report in weeks? And what

Heitman was doing all those months since Oswald was not his beat. Well so do I...grin. One might also wonder why none of Heitman's pre assassination reports are

available....or for that matter why very little is available on the exile community in Dallas pre-assassination.

Since I don't get to do wild speculation that often, I'll just make a guess that the explanation might be that Lee Oswald might have indeed been dangled to Cuban exiles

in Dallas who were engaged in gun buying, a major focus for the FBI at the time and one having nothing to do with Hosty. Indeed, as in New Orleans, Oswald's

informant file in such matters would have been held very separate from his case file, the one Hosty would have had access to. And Hosty's remark about the subversives

an that investigation being communicated to the Secret Service...which it was not...was innocent enough when he made it since he would have had no idea of the

real implications.

Hosty was a nice fellow and very open to talking, the only thing I never got him to comment on in our chats was the copy of the document on his remarks about subversives

that I provided to him.

-- Larry

Larry,

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not sure I'm correctly understanding part of your post because it looks like part of a sentence was left out, or did you just misspell the word "actual" as "actually?" The sentence starts, "He might well have known it because..."

I agree that 3126 Harlandale Avenue was not a "safe house" in the traditional meaning of the word.

Also, it's interesting that Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberrio looked so much like Oswald. Even more interesting is the fact that someone (forget who now) said they once saw Orcarberrio and Oswald together.

Thanks again,

--Tommy

Edited August 17, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Larry Hancock]

Sorry Tommy, it should have read "the actual agent"...

I'm not sure about Orcarberrio resembling Oswald, would have to see a photo. Once I saw a Masen photo I couldn't understand how Dick thought he

resembled Oswald.....

[Thomas Graves]

Sorry Tommy, it should have read "the actual agent"...

I'm not sure about Orcarberrio resembling Oswald, would have to see a photo. Once I saw a Masen photo I couldn't understand how Dick thought he

resembled Oswald.....

Larry,

Thanks for clarifying that.

Regarding Orcarberrio, this is the only photo of him that I know of:

https://www.google.com/search?q=orcarberrio&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.50768961,d.aWc,pv.xjs.s.en_US.E_1kRF_UP4s.O&biw=1016&bih=614&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Z7UPUsyVC4G4yQGl6oEw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=XUtKJ0--2s2DHM%3A%3B5QL9hG-ilG3iSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk%252F1AAOrcarberrio1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk%252F1AAcubans_9.htm%3B345%3B446

--Tommy

Edited August 17, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Larry Hancock]

Thanks for the photo Tommy, I don't recall seeing it before....I don't see any real resemblance to Oswald, what does everybody else think?

That also gives me some pause in regard to the second report, from Sulphur Oklahoma only a week or so before the assassination which

placed Ocarberrio in company with someone resembling Oswald. I really don't see that you can confuse the two - but perhaps others see

more of a resemblance?

[Ken Davies]

I don't see any resemblance either, for what it is worth.

[Trygve V. Jensen]

On 8/17/2013 at 7:46 PM, Thomas Graves said:

Larry,

Thanks for clarifying that.

Regarding Orcarberrio, this is the only photo of him that I know of:

https://www.google.com/search?q=orcarberrio&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.50768961,d.aWc,pv.xjs.s.en_US.E_1kRF_UP4s.O&biw=1016&bih=614&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Z7UPUsyVC4G4yQGl6oEw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=XUtKJ0--2s2DHM%3A%3B5QL9hG-ilG3iSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk%252F1AAOrcarberrio1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk%252F1AAcubans_9.htm%3B345%3B446

--Tommy

 

On 8/17/2013 at 9:44 PM, Larry Hancock said:

Thanks for the photo Tommy, I don't recall seeing it before....I don't see any real resemblance to Oswald, what does everybody else think?

That also gives me some pause in regard to the second report, from Sulphur Oklahoma only a week or so before the assassination which

placed Ocarberrio in company with someone resembling Oswald. I really don't see that you can confuse the two - but perhaps others see

more of a resemblance?

After 5 minutes of searching, - I found out something.

That it is more of a challenge, -- searching for information on this guy , -- than "average" .  One reason is his name. I can't remember seeing a name, - being misspelled so much. The conclusion , - is that I haven't come to a conclusion , - of how to correctly spell it . :-)

Anyone know ? (Edit : There are so many different spellings. I guess, Oscarberro is one that is "correct") . The guy is the guy, whatever his name is. - Just that the searching - process, is very frustrating. One search alone, will become effectively five. Atleast.

I made the mistake, - to watch the "documentary-series" , "JFK Declassified - Tracking Oswald", which I understand was cancelled after the second episode in the US. , - but continued in Canada.

I feel must apologize just for referring here, to that production by History Channel. In the last episode , they conclude that Oswald was the shooter, and the accomplices were members of Alpha 66 - who were "double - agents, - not working for the CIA, - but working for Castro." So Castro did it. Or something of that notion. (I didn't manage to mobilize strength/will to see the full episode, - but still something like this, can be useful, - if only to make print-screens, ----,  snapshots of interesting footage they use).

Just out of curiosity, - I tried initiating searches for two names. "Enrique Garcia", --- if the same or not, (or of relevance) - I wouldn't know; https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32310154.pdf

- and the above mentioned guy.

One page (this one: https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/jfk-declassified-tracking-oswald-part-6, (debunking the series)), - says the following about this guy's name : " The last name is often misspelled as Orcabarrio or Orcaberrio. In the CuIS files, he is registered as Manuel Rodríguez Oscarberro. "

--- The page btw, links to the "Harlandale continued" - by you Larry.  https://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/harlandale-continued/

Interesting. Personally I have not (as far as I can remember) read much of your work, - I hope I get the time and opportunity to do so.

I noted the other evening, - if maybe even yesterday, - you mentioning something about not wanting to get to into issues you have written about many years ago, - when having to resort to memory, - when it is not fresh, - not wishing to give out bad information.

Any input appreciated.

I would have said, - that I appreciate your work, - but I can't, before have had the opportunity to read , - (or re-read, for all I know. Time has passed, and makes a lot go away , as you know. ), --- some of it.

"Manuel Rodríguez Oscarberro" resulted in disappointingly few (image)hits. (" Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe.") This was one:

The one in the middle - left, - could look like the same guy in the photo Thomas' linked to.

Names can be a challenge. Peter in England, is Pierre in France, Piettro in Italy,  and Pedro in Spain, etc. .

Unreachable link for me: " “Manolito Rodríguez” o Manuel Oscarberro, como es citado por varios investigadores del magnicidio, un colaborador de Veciana, quien en realidad se nombra Manuel Rodríguez Oscarberro....... "

https://jeffersonal.issuu.com/repolidoblaz/docs/1963_el_complot/168

( F. Escalante --- Repolido B. )

---------------------------

No hits at this forum on "Eric Wilson", nor "The spectacle of the false-flag". But I reckon many here have read it, and perhaps discussed it.

https://www.docdroid.net/wrxXqFd/098823405x.pdf

-------------------------------------

Edited April 12, 2018 by Trygve V. Jensen

[Larry Hancock]

I am cautious about being too definitive from memory but we do have the name from FBI reports and it is Manuel Rodriquez Orcarberrio.  I didn't find any record of his actually being involved in military operations against Cuba, in Dallas he was associated with promoting Alpha 66, recruiting, fund raising and attempts to buy weapons - a fact known to the ATF and Frank Ellsworth at the time. I'm not sure how that gibes with the photos in fatigues?

We also know that the left for Puerto Rico within a couple of years after the assassination and and there is good reason that he himself was a source for the FBI, and the source used to refute the fact that Lee Oswald had actually been at the house on Harlandale. That's not totally unusual because the FBI often used sources that were actively engaged in things being investigated, and often got misinformation. Its worth note that some familiar names such as Howard, Hall and Heming can all be found named as offering information to the FBI....often an effort to divert attention to people they didn't like and buy themselves a little leverage (not sure that part worked).

Certainly the house on Harlandale would be hard to consider as a true safehouse of any sort, certainly not if it was suspicious even to Deputy Sheriff Walther's mother....way too many people coming and going.  Apparently it was used as temporary lodging for a number of exiles traveling to and from Dallas over a couple of points and by individuals from several different groups including Alpha 66 and DRE as well as other fellow travelers.

 

[Mark Knight]

Perhaps the house on Harlandale was simply a "station" on the Cuban version of the Underground Railroad....

[Larry Hancock]

I think you are on the money with that characterization Mark,  and given that it was sort of a hub of exile activity I would not be at all surprised if Oswald had visited at least once...no way to prove it of course...

Edited April 13, 2018 by Larry Hancock

[Paz Marverde]

11 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

not way to prove it of course...

 

[Larry Hancock]

None that I can think of but of course if somebody can I'm all for it...

[Steve Thomas]

12 hours ago, Trygve V. Jensen said:

 

After 5 minutes of searching, - I found out something.

That it is more of a challenge, -- searching for information on this guy ,

Trygve,

 

Here's a little of what I've learned:

 

Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro was born on November 8, 1928 in Santiago de Cuba, Oriente (Province?) Cuba. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11481#relPageId=219&tab=page

He worked for the Coca-Cola company.

 

Among the Miscellaneous CIA Series, there is an unauthored FBI Report of the various anti-Castro groups in Dallas: JURE, 30th of November, Alpha 66-SNFE, etc.

REPORT: JUNTA REVOLUCIONARIA CUBANA; SEGUNDO FRENTE DE ESCAMBRAY (OPERATION ALPHA 66); DIRECTORIO REVOLUCIONARIO ESTUDIANTIL; MOVIMIENTO REVOLUCIONARIO 30 DE NOVIEMBRE; FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE

NARA Record Number: 104-10320-10070

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=28726&relPageId=2

 

Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro furnished the following information:

 

He served as a Lieutenant in Fidel Castro's army under the command Humberto Matos from February, 1958 until October 21, 1959.

He subsequently took asylum in the Brazilian Embassy in Havana and entered the United States as an exile in Miami on November 29, 1960.

(see p. 4 of this Report)

 

After the assassination of President Kennedy, information was received from Dallas T-3, a government agency which conducts security-type information, that a source had provided information that Rodriguez was known to be violently anti-Kennedy.

 

The Dallas T-3 agency was the Secret Service, and the source was the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).

 

On February 10, 1964, Rodriguez had told Wallace Heitman that he had become interested in the SNFE and that in June, 1963, one of the founding members of SNFE, Andres Nazario Sargen, had written him a letter asking him to establish a Dallas Chapter of SNFE. Rodriguez said that through his efforts, such a Chapter had been formed in June, 1963, with he, Rodriguez as President. At that time, Rodriguez lived at 2311 Nicholson St. in Dallas.

 

On pp. 5-6 of that Rodriguez lists the officers of the Dallas Chapter of SNFE. One of the members of the Board of Directors was Jorge Salazar. The group met in Salazar's home on a bi-weekly basis.

 

Two other members of the group were Raoul Castro and Juan Quitana. Rafael Quintana and Raoul Castro lived together in a house in Grand Prairie, Texas with two Mexican sisters.
They had defected to the U.S. from Cuba by way of Mexico by swimming across the Rio Grande River at Brownsville, TX.
 

Raoul Castro owned a Nash Rambler Station wagon.

Raoul Castro and Juan Quintana had attended a John Birch Society meeting and Quitana picked up a bumper sticker that read, “Kan the Kennedy Klan” and put it on Castro;s car. Someone (and they both denied it was them) had scratched out the work Kan and wrote in “Kill” After the assassination, efforts were made to remove that bumper sticker.

 

It is possible (and I stress the word possible), that Lee Harvey Oswald was at that same John Birch Society meeting. During his WC testimony, http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/paine_m1.htm

 

Michael Paine told the WC that he and Oswald had attended a meeting of the ACLU. During that ACLU meeting, Oswald stood up and reported on a meeting that he had attended of the John Birch Society. Paine believed that this JBS meeting had been held on the evening before Adlai Stevenson had spoken at U.N. Day on October 24, 1963 and had been bonked on the head by a picket sign.

 

“Mr. LIEBELER - For the record I think the record should indicate that Mr. Stevenson was in Dallas on or about October 24, 1963.

 

Mr. PAINE - When I went to the ACLU meeting he (Oswald) then got up, stood up and reported what had happened at the meeting of the far right which had occurred at convention hall the day before, U.N. Day, they called it U.S. Day, and I think Walker had spoken then.”

 

It is very possible that Oswald was at the anti-Stevenson rally at the same time as Larry Schmidt, Bobby Joiner, members of the John Birch Society and members of SNFE/Alpha 66.

 

ATF Agent Frank Ellsworth was investigating a series of arms thefts from National Guard Armories.

He went undercover posing as an arms buyer and approached John Thomas Masen, a gun dealer, who Ellsworth suspected as trafficking in these stolen guns. Masen told Ellsworth that Orcarberro and a man named George Parrel were attempting to buy arms from him, had done so in the past, and had a large cache of weapons in the Dallas area.

 

See Warren Commission Document 853 SS Rowley Memorandum of 24 Apr 1964

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11250#relPageId=4&tab=page

 

I can supply you with further details if you like, such as Heitman's interviews with Castro and Quinatana, etc.

 

The picture that has been supplied of Rodriguez Orcarberro may or may not be him. I've never seen another photograph to compare it to. INS was supposed to have a photo, but I've never seen it. He told Heitman that he was 5'11” tall, weighed 158 lbs, had brown hair and wore dark-rimmed glasses.

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Trygve V. Jensen]

Thanks to all three of you, - very much appreciated.

Spent the last three hours, reading, reading, reading, ---- for so to write a post here. But , trying to learn from mistakes, ---- I won't submit it.

It made less sense for each word written. Trying to puzzle together pieces while being exhausted, - having a major lack of sleep, and concentration, as well as the endless nitpicking working against me , ------ only contribute to mix the pieces even more. And instead of being less confused after reading and reading, - one ends up even more confused. So many factors to take account for. So many outcomes, depending on "ifs". It is not the right time to complexify an already very complex subject. And one does not either contribute to anything then.

But as said; thanks, - appreciate it a lot. You guys make it interesting, with all your time spent, - providing all this information.

Just; -- in somewhat of an attempt to understand better, one of many scenarios ; if he (Or(s)carberr(i)o, - was a source for the FBI, - at which point in time - would he have become one ?

Contacting the FBI ( in the role of what ? ) -- through telephone, --- requesting an interview, (February '64) -- initiating it, -- with purpose of filing a complaint on another Cuban refugee. Would this be "common" practice ? The validity of his stated purpose itself, - depends. On several factors. Perhaps irrelevant. The purpose of the report as well, -- for that matter. (105-1740). Depending on which perspective viewed from.

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Trygve V. Jensen

[Larry Hancock]

There are a number of points that might have led the FBI to interview Orcarberrio during 1963, related both the the people involved with the House on Harlandale, to weapons purchasing activities in Dallas and after the assassination in regard to both reports about the house and Oswald and issues like Sylvia Odio's statements.

As an example, Jorge Salazar. a vice secretary of Alpha 66 in Dallas, had rented the Harlandale house and was an associate of Oswaldo Pino Pino who in turn was later questioned by the FBI about visiting Sylvia Odio.  FBI agent Heitman had been involved for several months in an investigation of Pino Pino who had moved from Miami to Dallas and had been reported to the FBI in Miami as a potential Castro agent and supporter. Several of the individuals associated with DRE and Alpha 66 and the Harlandale house were the subject of weapons buying investigations by ATF and FBI.  

Any one of those things could have led to an interview with Orcarberrio and would have drawn further attention to the house, there is even possibility it was under surveillance at points.  

The common practice in this case would be for the FBI to interview individuals and for those individuals to show some sort of cooperation to clear themselves - while not revealing anything else that might need to be covered up at the same time. There are a lot more connections between these individuals and efforts to obtain weapons in Texas, all of which brought attention to them. Unfortunately while we some great records in certain areas, the key FBI agent (Heitman) has very little about his Cuban exile activities prior to the assassination in his files and although I have a copy of his book, he says virtually nothing about that in regard to Dallas.