A Question for That Robert Dunne Chuck Guy

[Stan Wilbourne]

gone.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Stan Wilbourne

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Let's just say that when E. Howard Hunt took a break from his regular duties to help ghost-write Allen Dulles' memoirs, I think they may have collaborated on a second, more important project.

Not much of a gift, I'm afraid, but I did accomplish it in fewer than 10.000 words [for which we should all be well and truly thankful.]

[Stan Wilbourne]

Robert,

Wait.

Do you think those two (Hunt and Dulles) could've done all this on their own?

If not, who was above?

After all these years, in my elemental view, it comes to one of two choices. A debate is raging on this forum now of those two.

I greatly respect your opinion. I'm sure others here do as well. You've earned that.

I'm sure you've spent a good portion of your life (and vast intellect) on this case.

Who, in your view, ordered the execution of John Kennedy?

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Robert,

Wait.

Do you think those two (Hunt and Dulles) could've done all this on their own?

Yes, with the resources available to them.

If not, who was above?

I don't think they needed to shop the idea around, or seek approval. Moreover, my reading of Agency history is that it does what it damn well pleases, irrespective of whatever orders it may receive from civilian higherups... it happened to Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson, and perhaps with subsequent presidents too [Carter being one likelihood, and Nixon an odds-on probability.] Dulles was the patrician Pontiff of Langley, and arrogated unto himself the authority to do what he felt was right and necessary.

After all these years, in my elemental view, it comes to one of two choices. A debate is raging on this forum now of those two.

I greatly respect your opinion. I'm sure others here do as well. You've earned that.

My favorite leatherneck Gerry Hemming may disagree.

I'm sure you've spent a good portion of your life (and vast intellect) on this case.

My favorite leatherneck Gerry Hemming may disagree about that "intellect" thingie.

Who, in your view, ordered the execution of John Kennedy?

We know that a cabal of Agency higherups was furious with JFK over the Bay of Pigs, and didn't grow any fonder of him after he turfed Dulles, who commanded a great deal of loyalty after having run the show for yonks. [Not to mention nuclear detente, integration, messing with capitalist interests at home and abroad, seeking normalization with Fidel, etc.]

While he may have nominally become a mere "citizen," I would suggest that via his many loyal retainers still within the Agency, Dulles could still have access to unlimited sums of untraceable funds; the finest foreign "mechanics" on the planet; all the false identification required for any number of players in the scheme; the technical knowledge necessary to circumvent the prying of the Bureau, et al; the unquestioning compliance of those who needed to know and the compartmentalization to protect him from those who didn't need to know; and, perhaps most important, the ability to tell the difference between the two. Much was done covertly during the McCone years that even McCone didn't know about, by his own admission, and that of others [Helms, Harvey, King, et al]. Think about that. CIA was acting behind the back of its own overseer, a Kennedy appointee. Why?

[Stan Wilbourne]

Robert,

So, if I am clear, in your view, Allen Dulles could've/was most likely to have ordered this murder?

Allen Dulles.

In your own mind, after all these years, have you reached this conclusion?

This is of great interest to me.

Thanks again for responding.

Stan

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Robert,

Thanks for your reply I echo all Stan's sentiments with regard to your insights.

Can I ask what your opinion is of what the CIA is/represents?

Who does it represent, if anyone?

Why and how does it do this?

I appreciate these could be vast answers, so a brief 'dummy's guide would suffice.

Alternatively if you could add an opinion here If the CIA was involved in any way...

Thanks in anticipation

Gary

Edited December 24, 2006 by Gary Loughran

[Dawn Meredith]

Robert,

Wait.

Do you think those two (Hunt and Dulles) could've done all this on their own?

Yes, with the resources available to them.

If not, who was above?

I don't think they needed to shop the idea around, or seek approval. Moreover, my reading of Agency history is that it does what it damn well pleases, irrespective of whatever orders it may receive from civilian higherups... it happened to Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson, and perhaps with subsequent presidents too [Carter being one likelihood, and Nixon an odds-on probability.] Dulles was the patrician Pontiff of Langley, and arrogated unto himself the authority to do what he felt was right and necessary.

After all these years, in my elemental view, it comes to one of two choices. A debate is raging on this forum now of those two.

I greatly respect your opinion. I'm sure others here do as well. You've earned that.

My favorite leatherneck Gerry Hemming may disagree.

I'm sure you've spent a good portion of your life (and vast intellect) on this case.

My favorite leatherneck Gerry Hemming may disagree about that "intellect" thingie.

Who, in your view, ordered the execution of John Kennedy?

We know that a cabal of Agency higherups was furious with JFK over the Bay of Pigs, and didn't grow any fonder of him after he turfed Dulles, who commanded a great deal of loyalty after having run the show for yonks. [Not to mention nuclear detente, integration, messing with capitalist interests at home and abroad, seeking normalization with Fidel, etc.]

While he may have nominally become a mere "citizen," I would suggest that via his many loyal retainers still within the Agency, Dulles could still have access to unlimited sums of untraceable funds; the finest foreign "mechanics" on the planet; all the false identification required for any number of players in the scheme; the technical knowledge necessary to circumvent the prying of the Bureau, et al; the unquestioning compliance of those who needed to know and the compartmentalization to protect him from those who didn't need to know; and, perhaps most important, the ability to tell the difference between the two. Much was done covertly during the McCone years that even McCone didn't know about, by his own admission, and that of others [Helms, Harvey, King, et al]. Think about that. CIA was acting behind the back of its own overseer, a Kennedy appointee. Why?

Robert:

I agree with Stan that you are probably the most respected forum member. And while I do not disagree that Hunt and Dulles were involved I don't know that they had the power to pull this off. What about all the murdered witnesses? What about King and RFK? (Realizing you were not asked these questions by Stan).

Dawn

[Lee Forman]

Very edifying and an interesting thread.

Any chance you might shed some light on how Canada fits in to the puzzle?

Nukes being placed 12/31/63. 'Oswald' looking to penetrate. Louis Mortimer Bloomfield's alleged involvement. What's Ferrie doing there? Why does Rivele and others have it that some of the shooters traveled by way of Montreal? The Corsican drug route - Marseille and Montreal. Mondolini leaving Cuba to settle in Montreal? The Centro Mondiale Commerciale? The work being done by the 'Allen' Memorial Institute? The 1945 technology transfer? Why would a beverage magazine in Canada fund a trip to the Bottler's convention in Dallas anyway? Pasquale Cuntrera and Leonardo Caruana? Georges Schoeters? Uranium? The Bronfmans? Freeport Sulphur? The Old Catholic Church and his honarable Reverend James? Etc.?

- lee

[Cliff Varnell]

Very edifying and an interesting thread.

....indeed....and I'll add my vote to Robert being one I'd put some weight on the thoughts of. I can 'buy' Dulles being in on the hit, and always had though he was...but he is the type not to dirty his hands...but just ask the 'stone be removed from his shoe'.....

Thank you, Peter.

The guy who WOULD get his hands dirty was Lansdale.

Lansdale has been positively ID'd in Dealey Plaza by counter-insurgency

legend Gen. Victor Krulak in this tramp photo, AFTER Oswald's arrest.

http://www.geocities.com/quaneeri3/LastScan58.jpg

http://www.ratical.org///ratville/JFK/USO/appD.html

I'll argue that the ONLY way Lansdale would have exposed himself

by appearing in Dealey Plaza was if something had gone WRONG.

The patsy was captured alive, the blame Castroconspiracy Plan A scenario

was killed, and like an quarterback calling an audible at the line, Lansdale

was out fixing the patsy chain to leave only one link -- one Lee Harvey Oswald.

I was supposed to be on the road an hour ago...peace and love, y'all...

[Dawn Meredith]

Very edifying and an interesting thread.

....indeed....and I'll add my vote to Robert being one I'd put some weight on the thoughts of. I can 'buy' Dulles being in on the hit, and always had though he was...but he is the type not to dirty his hands...but just ask the 'stone be removed from his shoe'.....

Thank you, Peter.

The guy who WOULD get his hands dirty was Lansdale.

Lansdale has been positively ID'd in Dealey Plaza by counter-insurgency

legend Gen. Victor Krulak in this tramp photo, AFTER Oswald's arrest.

http://www.geocities.com/quaneeri3/LastScan58.jpg

http://www.ratical.org///ratville/JFK/USO/appD.html

I'll argue that the ONLY way Lansdale would have exposed himself

by appearing in Dealey Plaza was if something had gone WRONG.

The patsy was captured alive, the blame Castroconspiracy Plan A scenario

was killed, and like an quarterback calling an audible at the line, Lansdale

was out fixing the patsy chain to leave only one link -- one Lee Harvey Oswald.

I was supposed to be on the road an hour ago...peace and love, y'all...

Lansdale was also positively id'd as being in DP by Prouty. I found Prouty's reasoning quite convincing when I read them some years back.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

More attention needs to be placed on Dulles and WWII....as THERE resides [iMO] the beginning of the end we now see.

Peter:

Absolutely! When I began to understand- in 1974- just who the Rockerfellers et al really backed in WW11, coupled with Hitler's top spymaster Reinhard Gehlen, and his secret mettings with Dulles, culminating in the OSS, just why this country seemed so fascistic became absolutely clear to me.

It's pivital to understanding 11/22/63, and today.

Dawn

[Terry Mauro]

More attention needs to be placed on Dulles and WWII....as THERE resides [iMO] the beginning of the end we now see.

Peter:

Absolutely! When I began to understand- in 1974- just who the Rockerfellers et al really backed in WW11, coupled with Hitler's top spymaster Reinhard Gehlen, and his secret mettings with Dulles, culminating in the OSS, just why this country seemed so fascistic became absolutely clear to me.

It's pivital to understanding 11/22/63, and today.

Dawn

****************************************************

And Prescott Bush, Milton Friedman, and Friedrich Hayek, at the meeting in Hayek's Swiss Chalet at Mont Pelerin, circa 1933. Reference: "Commanding The Heights" PBS/BBC

[Lee Forman]

Very edifying and an interesting thread.

Any chance you might shed some light on how Canada fits in to the puzzle?

Nukes being placed 12/31/63. 'Oswald' looking to penetrate. Louis Mortimer Bloomfield's alleged involvement. What's Ferrie doing there? Why does Rivele and others have it that some of the shooters traveled by way of Montreal? The Corsican drug route - Marseille and Montreal. Mondolini leaving Cuba to settle in Montreal? The Centro Mondiale Commerciale? The work being done by the 'Allen' Memorial Institute? The 1945 technology transfer? Why would a beverage magazine in Canada fund a trip to the Bottler's convention in Dallas anyway? Pasquale Cuntrera and Leonardo Caruana? Georges Schoeters? Uranium? The Bronfmans? Freeport Sulphur? The Old Catholic Church and his honorable Reverend James? Etc.?

- lee

How about Arturo Espaillat and Bob Johnson and the International Services of Information?

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwilsonS.htm

Eddy Collins had been recruited by FBI agents (MIA/FO), and John Evans of the "Johns Committee" (Red-Squad) in Tallahassee - to assist in monitoring the "peace marchers". The "Mounties" (R.C.M.P.) had inserted two assets into the group in Canada, and one of these had operated together with one of our guys, who, the year previous, had worked a joint CSS/RCMP/FBI operation involving Nicaraguans, Cubans, and other foreign nationals embarking on a mission to attend training camps inside Cuba.

This operation was assisted by Col. Arturo Espaillat, Robert Emmett Johnson, and leaders of the right-wing "R'assemblent Nationale" (FRN); who were battling with the Marxist FLQ in Montreal (Front D'Liberation Quebeqous).

[Lee Forman]

Very edifying and an interesting thread.

Any chance you might shed some light on how Canada fits in to the puzzle?

Nukes being placed 12/31/63. 'Oswald' looking to penetrate. Louis Mortimer Bloomfield's alleged involvement. What's Ferrie doing there? Why does Rivele and others have it that some of the shooters traveled by way of Montreal? The Corsican drug route - Marseille and Montreal. Mondolini leaving Cuba to settle in Montreal? The Centro Mondiale Commerciale? The work being done by the 'Allen' Memorial Institute? The 1945 technology transfer? Why would a beverage magazine in Canada fund a trip to the Bottler's convention in Dallas anyway? Pasquale Cuntrera and Leonardo Caruana? Georges Schoeters? Uranium? The Bronfmans? Freeport Sulphur? The Old Catholic Church and his honorable Reverend James? Etc.?

- lee

How about Arturo Espaillat and Bob Johnson and the International Services of Information?

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwilsonS.htm

Eddy Collins had been recruited by FBI agents (MIA/FO), and John Evans of the "Johns Committee" (Red-Squad) in Tallahassee - to assist in monitoring the "peace marchers". The "Mounties" (R.C.M.P.) had inserted two assets into the group in Canada, and one of these had operated together with one of our guys, who, the year previous, had worked a joint CSS/RCMP/FBI operation involving Nicaraguans, Cubans, and other foreign nationals embarking on a mission to attend training camps inside Cuba.

This operation was assisted by Col. Arturo Espaillat, Robert Emmett Johnson, and leaders of the right-wing "R'assemblent Nationale" (FRN); who were battling with the Marxist FLQ in Montreal (Front D'Liberation Quebeqous).

[Pat Speer]

If you're gonna go with the Dulles cult within the CIA as the movers and shakers, Tracy Barnes would have to be right in the middle. IMO. He was Hunt's boss in this period, and was still in the position, unlike Dulles or Hunt, to create cover companies. The government could have funded the hit without even knowing it. It's also intriguing that Helms axed Barnes as soon as he got the reins, just when Epstein and Lane were hitting the stands... Hmmm....