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Fragment trajectories...

John Dolva

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Off-the-cuff comments:

1. I can mostly follow your thinking on this, but the montage is still somewhat opaque to me.

2. I realize you're being somewhat cryptic about your own approach or any conclusions you might already have reached (which may be none at all) in hopes that someone else will pick up the ball as an independent peer check on your methods and math.

3. Speaking just for myself, I ain't a likely candidate. :hotorwot:up

4. What I can and happily will contribute is a 3D representation of as many (within reason) possible locations for the fragments as anyone who wants to play comes up with—including you.

5. To move things along, it might be worth just taking the wraps off of your own deductions and let me start constructing possible models in 3D that others can then look at (with actual numbers being in the formulas). Others then might be more inclined to lend their logic and thoughts to that effort, resulting in refined 3D models, etc. It might help get more participation that could lead to a consensus.

This is your ball game and I'm not trying to influence it; just trying to help find ways to move it along get more people involved.

The one thing I will say is that I certainly see many valuable ramifications to getting the sync project completed that don't necessarily have anything to do with the fragment trajectories. And while I definitely am interested in this fragment trajectory problem, I don't yet clearly see how it necessarily will lead to establishing a bullet trajectory for the head shot. I'd like to understand more about that aspect, but feel I will as it all progresses. Right now I'm still a bit stumped. :huh:


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Ok, just disecting this image:

with the understanding referred to in previous post,

the red box is the crossectional side view between N and Z.

as light does indeed for practical purposes travel in straight lines,

simply projecting measurements from the z and n headshot frames and then projecting this on to the birds eye view gives a trajectory direction almost exactly in line with the ninth row of openings in the collonade.

the orange lines in the birds eye vew of the limo inset is the derived trajectory using this method.

I think possibly that by knowing such things as velocity and taking into account diverse forces one may derive a figure representing the force that impelled the fragment. From this one may look at wound ballistics and make reasonable judgements about vectors and momentum transfers.

For example if this trajectory is correct, then by what means does a such a fragment shoot off almost perpendiclarly to a front or rear shot? Is it possible? Maybe it is. If so the explosive cavitation must have provided a considerable part of the impulse. Therefore, is the mist dispersal consistent with such a force? and so on...(see previous page for ideas on other implications)

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  • 2 years later...

[On a drive I came across a parking area with heavy guage metal rubbish bins. At about heart level was a rusty round hole. On closer inspection it was flared inwards. Opposite it was another hole, this one a bit more deformed with an indentation above it indicating that after the bullet cleanly passing through the first metal wall of the bin it tumbled, the rear struck the other side and the bullet straightened out and passed through leaving an almost round hole again flared in the same direction. So the question was how did the bullet behave after. At night, a laser pen pin pointed a place some 20 meters away. Going there a broken rock surface with a smear of lead and broken rock was quickly located, from there it ricocheed anywhere. The point being that the forward momentum was not in any way deflected by the heavy metal walls even though the bullet had tumbled and was likely quite deformed. The relevance may be that the windshield surround/the rearview mirror mount deformation, lined up with the non metal Kennedy could give a trajectory????

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