Where is the massive back head wound?

[Bill Miller]

Deleted duplicate post.

Bill Miller

Edited December 28, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

It's ridiculous to think the WC covered up the location of the back wound while simultaneously deliberately sowing confusion about the head wound.

This is a statement of stunning naivete.

I agree. It's like listening to Baghdad Bob telling us the Americans are nowhere in sight while standing in front of a U.S. tank with its guns pointed directly at him.

Dennis David saw some autopsy photos that were shown to him by William Pitzer that clearly showed the avulsion to the back of JFK's head. Those photos have since disappeared. Dennis has since gone into what I believe was "regressive hypnosis" and I have personally viewed the session and the emotion Dennis showed to the point of being in tears convinced me that Dennis David was and is telling the truth ... a truth that is supported not only by the Dallas Doctors and so many witnesses at Bethesda, but by Secret Service agent Clint Hill and FBI agents Sibert and O'neil. So it seems that we are to believe that the mass hallucination theory concerning the rear wound to President Kennedy's head had spread itself out to people outside of the Parkland medical staff, not excluding the mortician who painstakingly had to create a rubber pad to fit over the hole that we are told by Ashton and Pat that it never existed.

Insult to injury is then pushed on us by asking us 'Why would the official story move a back wound and hide the rear head wound?' It would seem to me that a reasonable person would see that the official position on the assassination was that the murder of JFK was the act of one man alone. (Whether that position was sincere or less than honorable doesn't matter because it came within hours of the murder when no investigation had been conducted, let alone even been completed - how odd is that!) So once we come to grips that a mass hallucination pertaining to the President's damaged occipital bones did not occur, we then have to get back to the Zapruder film and why we cannot see the wound with any clarity? The fact that the Zapruder camera doesn't even show the occpants of the limo's faces clearly seems to go unnoticed, but yet they want to believe that we should see fractured protruding bones through the President's out of focus hair covered head. Rather than to face the facts before them, they will look for film frames showing the President's head turned in such a way that the avulsion can't be seen so to salvage their poorly thought out position. They create out of scale cartooned 3D images that cannot be made to replicate actual assassination images so they can show us views of line of sights that can't be found by actually going to Dealey Plaza, only to then take offense to anyone pointing these flaws out to them. In the end, they continue to ignore the witnesses who were there and are eventually forced to fall back on their flawed positions so not to admit they may have been in error.

An example of what motion blur can do ...

As I said before, one must first decide what level of truth they are seeking and then find a path that leads to it.

Bill Miller

Edited December 28, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

So it seems that we are to believe that the mass hallucination theory concerning the rear wound to President Kennedy's head had spread itself out to people outside of the Parkland medical staff, not excluding the mortician who painstakingly had to create a rubber pad to fit over the hole that we are told by Ashton and Pat that it never existed.

REAR HEADWOUND WITNESS STATEMENTS

Diana Bowron, Nurse, Parkland Hospital

Mr. SPECTER - And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition?

Miss BOWRON - He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head.

Mr. SPECTER - You saw the condition of his what?

Miss BOWRON - The back of his head.

Mr. SPECTER - And what was that condition?

Miss BOWRON - Well, it was very bad---you know.

Mr. SPECTER - How many holes did you see?

Miss BOWRON - I just saw one large hole.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you see a small bullet hole beneath that one large hole?

Miss BOWRON - No, sir.

BOWRON. There was a gaping wound in the back of his head.

Q. So, in this massive hole, was there a flap of scalp there, or was scalp actually gone?

BOWRON. It was gone. Gone. There was nothing there. Just a big gaping hole.

Q. We're talking about scalp first, and then bone, right?

BOWRON. Yeah. There might have been little clumps of scalp, but most of the bone over the hole, there was no bone there.

Bowron was among the nurses who, after JFK's death, washed the body and

prepared it for the casket. It was at that time that she got her best

view of the body.

Letter from Diana Bowron to Harrison Livingstone

24th January 1993

The following is in answer to your questions.

When the president expired everyone left the room apart from Miss

Hinchcliffe, a male orderly and myself. We tidied the room and changed

the linen on the gurney and washed the body as best we could. Miss

Hinchcliffe and the orderly left the room, but I was told to remain with the body until the casket arrived. I was told that I had to stay because I had been one of the people who had taken the body from the car. I remained in the room while the widow paid her respects. After she had left I was asked, by a man I assumed was Secret Service, to collect all pieces of skull and brain I could find and place them in a plastic bag which he gave me. This I did and returned the bag to him (there were only a few fragments of bone that had stuck to the dressings and towels that we had used to pack the hole in the back of the head). I remained in the room until the people from the funeral home arrived. After we had placed the body in the casket and it had been closed I was allowed to leave. During the time I was with the body only the widow and the priest came into the room, any dealings I had with the Secret Service were done in the doorway; no one else entered the room and no photographs were taken.

Apart from 2-3 mins, when I left the trauma room to collect blood from

the Blood Bank, I was with the body from the car until it was placed in

the casket. Being new to the establishment, I was assigned to Minor Medicine and Surgery, which was across the hall from the Triage desk and the major sections of the Emergency room. It being very quiet, there were only two or three patients waiting for the results of tests, I was talking with the Triage nurse when the call went up for gurneys. I grabbed a gurney in the hall and together with an orderly ran to the entrance. I saw that the person in the back of the car was injured so I climbed in to render what assistance I could until such time as we could move him to a trolley, then to the trauma room (others were assisting the Governor in the front seat). I saw that there was a massive amount of blood on the back seat and in order to find the cause I lifted his head and my fingers went into a large wound in the back of his head; I turned his head and seeing the size of the wound realized that I could not stop the bleeding. I turned his head back and saw an entry wound in the front of the throat, I could feel no pulse at the jugular and having seen the extent of the injury to the back of the head I assumed that he was dead. (not my job, only a Doctor can certify death) When we got the President to the Trauma room, word had reached the Trauma team and they were ready with I.Vs etc. I worked with the team, assisting where needed for about 10 mins (time is difficult to judge in those circumstances), when I was told to go to the Blood Bank. I was away 2-3 mins and on my return I continued to assist where needed until the President was declared dead.

Miss Margaret Hinchcliffe and an African-American orderly and I prepared the body for the coffin. [Marginal note: David Sanders]

I observed no strange activity of any kind and saw no bullets.

As explained above, I thought after examination in the car that he was

dead. There was no damage to the front of his face, only the gaping

wound in the back of his head and the entry wound in his throat.

When we prepared the body for the coffin we washed the face and closed

the eyes; there was no damage to the face, there was no flap of scalp on the right, neither was there a laceration pointing toward the right

eyebrow from the scalp.

When we were preparing the body for the coffin we rolled it over in

order to remove the bloodstained sheet from underneath and to wipe away

the blood from the back of the body. I saw another entry wound in the

upper back (the other entry wound being in the front of the throat).

I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car; when we

were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine

it more closely. It was about 5ins in diameter, there was no flap of

skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of

bone, there was however some hair hanging down from the top of the head

which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole fist inside.

When we prepared the body I washed as much blood as I could from the

hair; while doing this I did not see any other wound either in the

temples or in other parts of the head.

I did not see anything suspicious about any of the doctors, though there were far more doctors there than they should have been; perhaps because it was the president they all wanted to get in on the act. You must remember that I had only been there a short time and I did not know all the doctors, some I never saw again, but they were all known to each other. With regard to a post: in this context I think it would refer to a gathering of the doctors after the event, to discuss the case. This was standard practice, when more than one or two doctors were involved.

When the body was placed in the coffin the wound at the back of the head was packed with gauze squares and wrapped in small white sheet, there was no terrycloth or other type of towel used.

The coffin or casket was bronze with plain fittings.

I don't think the body was removed from the coffin. After I left the

Trauma room I was in a position to see if any one entered or left the

room. No one entered or left until they removed the coffin.

A clear plastic sheet was placed in the bottom of the coffin, which may

have been a mattress cover; the body was wrapped in at the most two

sheets plus the one around the head, all the sheets were white and none

had zips. There was no "body bag".

Perhaps the following will be of interest to you.

As soon as the coffin left the trauma room, I went back to Minor Med.

and Surg. to resume my work: I don't know anything about the fight with

Earl Rose, which happened at that time.

When I arrived there I found that the patients had been moved elsewhere, and the department had been taken over by the Vice President and his staff. They were getting ready to leave when I got there, as they passed me I heard the Vice President say to his wife "Make a note of what everyone says and does".

Again I hope this is of some help to you.

[signed] Diana Bowron

Pat Hutton, Nurse, Parkland Hospital

Several people helped put the President on the cart, and we then proceeded to the Major Surgery section of the Emergency Room to Trauma Room #1. Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound on the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive.

As soon as we reached the room, a doctor placed an endotracheal tube, and prepared for a tracheostomy. Within a few minutes, there were numerous doctors in the room starting I.V.'s, placing chest tubes and anesthesia with O2. A doctor asked me to place a pressure dressing on the head wound. This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.

Dr Malcolm Perry, Parkland Hospital

Mr. SPECTER - Will you continue, then, Dr. Perry, as to what you observed of his condition?

Dr. PERRY - Yes, there was blood noted on the carriage and a large avulsive wound on the right posterior cranium. I cannot state the size, I did not examine it at all. I just noted the presence of lacerated brain tissue.

Dr Robert McClelland, Parkland Hospital:

Mr. SPECTER - Before proceeding to describe what you did in connection with the tracheostomy, will you more fully describe your observation with respect to the head wound?

Dr. McCLELLAND - As I took the position at the head of the table that I have already described, to help out with the tracheotomy, I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted. It had been shattered, apparently, by the force of the shot so that the parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp and seemed to be fractured almost along its right posterior half, as well as some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral haft, and this sprung open the bones that I mentioned in such a way that you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out. There was a large amount of bleeding which was occurring mainly from the large venous channels in the skull which had been blasted open.

Mr. SPECTER - What were your initial impressions?

Dr. McCLELLAND - The initial impression that we had was that perhaps the wound in the neck, the anterior part of the neck, was an entrance wound and that it had perhaps taken a trajectory off the anterior vertebral body and again into the skull itself, exiting out the back, to produce the massive injury in the head. However, this required some straining of the imagination to imagine that this would happen, and it was much easier to explain the apparent trajectory by means of two bullets, which we later found out apparently had been fired, than by just one then, on which basis we were originally taking to explain it.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe the condition of the back of the President's head?

Dr. McCLELLAND - Well, partially; not, of course, as I say, we did not lift his head up since it was so greatly damaged. We attempted to avoid moving him any more than it was absolutely necessary, but I could see, of course, all the extent of the wound.

Mr. SPECTER - You saw a large opening which you have already described?

Dr. McCLELLAND - I saw the large opening which I have described.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe any other wound on the back of the head?

Dr. McCLELLAND - No.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe a small gunshot wound below the large opening on the back of the head?

Dr. McCLELLAND - No.

Dr Marion Jenkins, Parkland Hospital

Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you now describe the wound which you observed in the head?

Dr. JENKINS - Almost by the time I was--had the time to pay more attention to the wound in the head, all of these other activities were under way. I was busy connecting up an apparatus to respire for the patient, exerting manual pressure on the breathing bag or anesthesia apparatus, trying to feel for a pulse in the neck, and then reaching up and feeling for one in the temporal area, seeing about connecting the cardioscope or directing its being connected, and then turned attention to the wound in the head.

Now, Dr. Clark had begun closed chest cardiac massage at this time and I was aware of the magnitude of the wound, because with each compression of the chest, there was a great rush of blood from the skull wound. Part of the brain was herniated; I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound; there was part of the brain tissue, broken fragments of the brain tissue on the drapes of the cart on which the President lay.

Dr Ronald Jones, Parkland Hospital

Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe as precisely as you can the nature of the head wound?

Dr. JONES - There was large defect in the back side of the head as the President lay on the cart with what appeared to be some brain hanging out of this wound with multiple pieces of skull noted next with the brain and with a tremendous amount of clot and blood.

Dr Paul Peters, Parkland Hospital

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the nature of the President's wound?

Dr. PETERS - Well, as I mentioned, the neck wound had already been interfered with by the tracheotomy at the time I got there, but I noticed the head wound, and as I remember--I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you notice in the occiput?

Dr. PETERS - It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal area that there was a large defect. There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you notice any holes below the occiput, say, in this area below here?

Dr. PETERS - No, I did not and at the time and the moments immediately following the injury, we speculated as to whether he had been shot once or twice because we saw the wound of entry in the throat and noted the large occipital wound, and it is a known fact that high velocity missiles often have a small wound of entrance and a large wound of exit, and I'm just giving you my honest impressions at the time.

Dr Kemp Clark, Parkland Hospital

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there?

Dr. CLARK - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously. The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted. in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly.

My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation.

I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed.

Clark on the 2:30 press conference:

Mr. SPECTER - What, if anything, did you say then in the course of that press conference?

Dr. CLARK - I described the President's wound in his head in very much the same way as I have described it here. I was asked if this wound was an entrance wound, an exit wound, or what, and I said it could be an exit wound, but I felt it was a tangential wound.

Mr. SPECTER - Which wound did you refer to at this time?

Dr. CLARK - The wound in the head.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you describe at that time what you meant by "tangential"?

Dr. CLARK - Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. SPECTER - What definition of "tangential" did you make at that time?

Dr. CLARK - As I remember, I defined the word "tangential" as being---striking an object obliquely, not squarely or head on.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe at this time in somewhat greater detail the consequences of a tangential wound as contrasted with another type of a striking?

Dr. CLARK - Let me begin by saying that the damage suffered by an organ when struck by a bullet or other missile---

Mr. SPECTER - May the record show that I interrupted the deposition for about 2 minutes to ascertain what our afternoon schedule would be here because the regular administration office ordinarily closes at 12 o'clock, which was just about 15 minutes ago, and then we resumed the deposition of Dr. Clark as he was discussing the concept of tangential and other types of striking. Go ahead, Doctor.

Dr. CLARK - The effects of any missile striking an organ or a function of the energy which is shed by the missile in passing through this organ when a bullet strikes the head, if it is able to pass through rapidly without shedding any energy into the brain, little damage results, other than that part of the brain which is directly penetrated by the missile. However, if it strikes the skull at an angle, it must then penetrate much more bone than normal, therefore, is likely to shed more energy, striking the brain a more powerful blow.

Secondly, in striking the bone in this manner, it may cause pieces of the bone to be blown into the brain and thus act as secondary missiles. Finally, the bullet itself may be deformed and deflected so that it would go through or penetrate parts of the brain, not in the usual direct line it was proceeding.

Mr. SPECTER - Now, referring back to the press conference, did you define a tangential wound at that time?

Dr. CLARK - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - And what else did you state at the press conference at 2:30 on November 22?

Dr. CLARK - I stated that the President had lost considerable blood, that one of the contributing causes of death was this massive blood loss, that I was unable to state how many wounds the President had sustained or from what angle they could have come. I finally remember stating that the President's wound was obviously a massive one and was insurvivable.

Audrey Bell, Nurse, Parkland Hospital

Interview by Jeremy Gunn and Douglas Horne of the ARRB 3/20/97(MD184):

In the ER, Bell asked Dr Malcolm Perry where the wound was. "Dr Perry turned the President's head slightly to the President's anatomical left so that she could see a right posterior head wound, which she described as occipital..."

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...md184_0001a.htm

Doris Nelson, Nurse, Parkland Hospital

She was an ER Supervisor in 1963, later became the Nursing Supervisor

of Parkland Hospital. She assisted in treating JFK, and helped, along with three other nurses, in the preparation of the body for the casket. In the revised edition of High Treason, Harrison Livingstone, on p.38 states: "Nurse Nelson drew a picture of the head wound, mostly in the parietal area, but well towards the rear of the head (Parietal/Occipital). Her drawing conflicts strongly with the official autopsy photograph. When she saw the picture she said immediately, 'It's not true---There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. All that area was blown out.'"

Margaret Hinchcliffe, Nurse, Parkland Hospital

Margaret M. Hinchcliffe (shown in the WR as Henchcliffe), was a nurse

who helped wheel JFK from the limousine into the emergency room,and

later helped prepare the body for the coffin. She told reporters in 1981 that the President had a gaping wound in the back of his head and an entrance wound in his throat. With nurse Diana Bowron, she used surgical shears to cut off JFK's clothes upon his arrival, removing everything except his underwear and his back brace (someone later removed the back brace). According to Jim Bishop, after Kennedy's death, she was ordered to clean the body (along with Diana Bowron):

"The body was sponged carefully, the legs and arms still pliant. The

cart drapes on the right hand side were heavy with brain matter. This

was cleaned up and the edges of the massive wound in the head were wiped The brown hair was slicked back. The body was lifted off the carriage and white sheets were placed underneath. Enough loose material was allowed to hang off the left side so that, when the President was placed in the box, the head and neck wounds would not soil the white satin interior."

SSA Clint Hill: The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

DP witness Phil Willis: It took the back of his head off

DP witness Marilyn Willis: Matter was coming out the back of his head

Nurse Diana Bowron: There was a gaping wound in the back of his head. It was gone. Gone. There was nothing there. Just a big gaping hole. There might have been little clumps of scalp, but most of the bone over the hole, there was no bone there. There was no damage to the front of his face, only wound in the back of his head and the entry wound in his throat. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole fist into it

Nurse Doris Nelson: There wasn’t even hair back there. It was blown away. All that area was blown out(when shown the rear of head autopsy photo)

Nurse Pat Hutton: A doctor asked me to place a pressure dressing on the head wound. This was of no use, however, because of the massive opening on the back of the head.

Dr Malcolm Perry: there was blood noted on the carriage and a large avulsive wound on the right posterior cranium.

Dr Robert McClelland: I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted… we did not lift his head up since it was so greatly damaged. We attempted to avoid moving him any more than it was absolutely necessary, but I could see, of course, all the extent of the wound.

Dr Marion Jenkins: Part of the brain was herniated; I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound (note "cerebellum", and where it is located)

Dr Ronald Jones: There was large defect in the back side of the head as the President lay on the cart with what appeared to be some brain hanging out of this wound with multiple pieces of skull noted next with the brain and with a tremendous amount of clot and blood.

Dr Paul Peters: I noticed the head wound, and as I remember--I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput. It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal area that there was a large defect. There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area…we speculated as to whether he had been shot once or twice because we saw the wound of entry in the throat and noted the large occipital wound

Dr Kemp Clark: I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed.

Nurse Audrey Bell: Dr Perry turned the President's head slightly to the President's anatomical left so that she could see a right posterior head wound, which she described as occipital

Nurse Margaret Hinchcliff: the President had a gaping wound in the back of his head and an entrance wound in his throat.

Dr. Charles Crenshaw: The wound was the size of a baseball(photo depicts Crenshaw indicating right rear)

Dr. Kenneth Salyer: This wound extended into the parietal area(a photo depicts Salyer indicating right rear)

Dr. Charles Carrico: There was a large, quite large, defect about here(a photo depicts Carrico indicating right rear)

Aubrey Rike(Oneal Funeral Home, Dallas):You could feel the sharp edges of the bone at the edge of the hole in the back of the head

Bethesda photographer Floyd Riebe: a big gaping hole in the back of the head

FBI SA Frank O’Neill: a massive wound in the right rear

Petty Officer Saundra Spencer: They had one(autopsy photo) showing the back of the head with the wound at the back of the head. It was just a ragged hole.

Mortician Thomas Robinson: about the size of a small orange…Circular…ragged… directly behind the back of his head…they brought a piece of heavy duty rubber, again to fill this area in the back of the head…it had to be all dried out, packed, and the rubber placed in the hair and the skin pulled back over…and stitched into that piece of rubber.

FBI SA James Sibert: it was a good size, in the back part of the head there. Well, I think about 3 1/2 inches one way then quite a bit the other...they showed the pictures at that deposition that were neat in appearance, and boy, I don't remember anything like that

...but my recollection of the way the head looked is nothing that would appear as this photograph shows. This photograph is too neat. Right back here is where you would have had that massive wound, right in here, and you see that's neat. My thought was that that was probably taken after reconstruction was done... there was a big cavity there. I mean that you could look in to. The skull wasn’t intact, the bones weren’t in place…there definitely was a large cavity. It was just that apparent that there was so much skull missing

[Ashton Gray]

I'll state the utter simplicity one more time. There are two, and only two, possibilities:

• 1. The photographic, visual evidence of the head wound(s), including the films, are fake, phony, doctored (pun gleefully intended), retouched, and perfectly useless evidenciary materials, or,
  2. The "testimony" regarding a gaping hole, wound, avulsion in the back right side of John F. Kennedy's head is a pack of scripted lies, period.
  

The disinformation specialists in the herd are those who industriously work to keep both sets of "evidence" in equalibrium at all times and in constant conflict. By their fruits ye shall know them.

I think it's also about time that I mention the unmentionable: in all of the lionized "medical testimony" <SPIT!> about the purported gaping hole in the back right of JFK's head, none of these vaunted medical professionals thought it worth even mentioning the vast hole in the front right of JFK's head. And none of the vaunted "experts" all over the research community ever seem to fiind this tiny little omission at all curious.

In either case, Lee Harvey Oswald could not have either:

• 1. Faked, phonied, doctored (pun gleefully intended), or retouched the photographic, visual evidence of the head wound(s), including the films, or,
  2. Scripted, coerced, or edited-after-the-fact the yards of "testimony" regarding a gaping hole, wound, avulsion in the back right side of John F. Kennedy's head, period.
  

And there lies the late and unlamented "Lone Nutter" theory. Requiescat in pace.

Ashton Gray

Edited December 28, 2006 by Ashton Gray

[Bill Miller]

I'll state the utter simplicity one more time. There are two, and only two, possibilities:

• 1. The photographic, visual evidence of the head wound(s), including the films, are fake, phony, doctored (pun gleefully intended), retouched, and perfectly useless evidenciary materials, or,
  2. The "testimony" regarding a gaping hole, wound, avulsion in the back right side of John F. Kennedy's head is a pack of scripted lies, period.
  

The disinformation specialists in the herd are those who industriously work to keep both sets of "evidence" in equalibrium at all times and in constant conflict. By their fruits ye shall know them.

Ashton, just because one doesn't understand something because they haven't either the ability or have yet acquired the knowledge so to understand it such as in the case of the photographical record - it does not mean that the record has then been altered. This anaology of yours is so twisted that you have to assume the films are fake or that everyone who saw the wound that you deny existed must all be participants in a conspiracy to make up such a wound. I would be curious to know just what experts you have talked to pertaining to whether or not the Zapruder film should show the level of detail that you claim should be seen?

I think it's also about time that I mention the unmentionable: in all of the lionized "medical testimony" <SPIT!> about the purported gaping hole in the back right of JFK's head, none of these vaunted medical professionals thought it worth even mentioning the vast hole in the front right of JFK's head. And none of the vaunted "experts" all over the research community ever seem to fiind this tiny little omission at all curious.

It is because researchers know better than to think their was a hole where you have placed it on your model. The wound was the bone plate that came off the top of President's Kennedy's head. That overturned plate showing its bloody underside caused such witnesses like Bill Newman to wrongly think that the side of the President's head had opened up causing JFK's right ear to fly off. Certaqinly at some point at Parkland - the bone plate was noticed. Dr. Baxter said this during his sworn testimony ...

Dr. Baxter - The only wound that I actually saw--Dr. Clark examined this above the manubrium of the sternum, the sternal notch. This wound was in temporal parietal plate of bone laid outward to the side and there was a large area, oh, I would say 6 by 8 or 10 cm. of lacerated brain oozing from this wound, part of which was on the table and made a rather massive blood. loss mixed with it and around it.

Bill Miller

Edited December 28, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Ashton Gray]

Blah, blur, blither, blur, blather, ramble, spin, blur, blur, babble, blur, gabble, blur, prattle, yak, blur, blur.

Ashton Gray

[Bill Miller]

Blah, blur, blither, blur, blather, ramble, spin, blur, blur, babble, blur, gabble, blur, prattle, yak, blur, blur.

Ashton Gray

Yes, Ashton .... we all know that you are a believer in the mass hallucination theory. You have chosen the level of truth that fits your position - no problem here. I am still waiting to hear what photographical experts you have talked to concerning the effects of motion blur and what level of clarity could one expect from Zapruder's camera or does that not interest you?

Bill Miller

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Personally I've always thought Fox5 was originally taken like this...so much looks more natural, such as the ruler lying on the sheet, the blood flow onto the table (bottom right), the head/neck tilt and what is attached to that metal ring on the doctors left index finger?

[Bill Miller]

Personally I've always thought Fox5 was originally taken like this...so much looks more natural, such as the ruler lying on the sheet, the blood flow onto the table (bottom right), the head/neck tilt and what is attached to that metal ring on the doctors left index finger?

The photo is reversed making it appear that the bone plate is on the left side of JFK's head.

Bill Miller

[Ashton Gray]

Personally I've always thought Fox5 was originally taken like this...so much looks more natural, such as the ruler lying on the sheet, the blood flow onto the table (bottom right), the head/neck tilt...

Um... Gary? You just, uh, moved all the trauma to the right front of the head, plainly visible in the Zapruder film, over to the left front of the head. Why stop there? Why not just move it to the third knee?

and what is attached to that metal ring on the doctors left index finger?

I believe that upon closer inspection you'll find the "metal ring" to be a curl of wet hair.

Ashton

Edited December 28, 2006 by Ashton Gray

[Guest Gary Loughran]

My bad.

Should have been like this

That's probably how everyone views it anyway...just looks more natural, to me, when viewed like this.

Can this be reconciled with these? I find it difficult. As I have states previously this is an area that has confounded me in tandem with the head movement in the Z film. Thanks for the continuing tolerance of my questions.

Gary

[Cliff Varnell]

Thank you, Gary.

The autopsy photos contradict. This "back of the head" Fox 5 photo

stands as a proven fake.

The above cannot be reconciled with the other autopsy photos

or the witness statements; nor can the back wound location be

reconciled with the holes in JFK's clothing + the Dealey Plaza photos

that conclusively show that JFK's jacket dropped a good inch right

before he was shot.

[Bill Miller]

Thank you, Gary.

The autopsy photos contradict. This "back of the head" Fox 5 photo

stands as a proven fake.

The above cannot be reconciled with the other autopsy photos

or the witness statements; nor can the back wound location be

reconciled with the holes in JFK's clothing + the Dealey Plaza photos

that conclusively show that JFK's jacket dropped a good inch right

before he was shot.

Also, look at the size of the bone plate in the Zapruder film and try finding one that large in any of the autopsy photos ... something is not right! possibly Humes's observation that surgery had been to the head may offer some clues. Paul O'Conner said the President arrived at Bethesda in a shipping casket and Jerrol Custer was taking the President's Xray's through Bethesda when Jackie pulled up in front of the entrance to the naval hospital. To support these individuals is a reciept stating that the President arrived at BNH in a shipping casket. The shipping casket is the casket that Dennis David's team carried into the morgue. On the following Monday after the assassination there had been quiet talk going around the hospital about the President and how a decoy casket had been used. Dennis David (to satisfy his own curiosity) had asked Boswell which casket had contained the President's body and Boswell replied words to the effect, 'You should know, you helped escort it into the morgue.' In the event anyone missed it - Dennis lead the team that brought in the gray shipping casket.

Bill Miller

Edited December 28, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Pat Speer]

Ashton is wrong, there is a third option. The photos are not fake. The doctors did not spew scripted lies. The third option is that the doctors saying the wound was on the back of the head were innocently mistaken. I studied this and found that these kinds of mistakes have been studied and documented. We look at words all day long, but have tremendous difficulty reading upside down. Similarly, we have tremendous difficulty determining relative distances on objects normally seen upright, when they are laid flat. A wound behind the ear while laying flat was interpreted as being a wound behind the ear while upright. The Bethesda witnesses were discussing the back of the skull after the brain had been removed and as it is seen in the open-cranium photo. That's it.

The level of nastiness and religiosity involved in this issue is truly amazing. Here, when I try to defend them, and denounce Ashton's ridiculous assertion that all the doctors, including the Parkland doctors were controlled and forced to go along with a scripted lie that the wound was on the back of the head, Miller and Varnell attack me as naive. What the? Take the time and read what people are saying, will ya? If Miller and Varnell honestly believe that the Parkland doctors were forced to lie about the wound location, starting with their earliest reports, I'll eat my hat. No, better yet, I'll eat Ashton's hat.

The WC tried to avoid the head wound location. Some witnesses said it was on the back of the head. Some said it was more to the side. The Rydberg drawings showed it to be on top but towards the back. Since no one compared the drawings or descriptions to the autopsy photos it was a non-issue. The real issue, as Cliff well knows, was finding a way to get the back wound above the neck wound. The Rydberg drawings were created demonstrating what the doctors felt must have happened. But without access to the photos they were deprived the opportunity of seeing if they were right. Only one employee of the commission has acknowledged comparing the drawings to the photos, and that is Arlen Specter. He KNEW the drawing was inaccurate, yet said nothing. By arguing endlessly about the head wound, and speculating that everything in the WC report was a scripted lie, we let Specter off the hook for what is inarguable. He knew the single-bullet theory as presented by the WC was doubtful, yet presented it anyway. He is thus either a co-conspirator or a coward or both.

P.S. The x-rays and photos all compliment each other perfectly. They were taken at different stages of the autopsy. The x-rays were taken first, revealing a bone flap draped behind the ear. The top of the head, left lat, right lat brain photo, and stare of death photos were taken next, with the body lying flat and the bone flap still visible. Then they rolled him over on his side, cleaned the hair a little and inspected the body. They took the back of the head photos and back wound photos at this time. By this time, the bone flap had fallen or been pulled from the scalp. Later, after reflecting the scalp to the left and removing the brain, they took the final photos.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Pat Speer

[Cliff Varnell]

The level of nastiness and religiosity involved in this issue is truly amazing. Here, when I try to defend them, and denounce Ashton's ridiculous assertion that all the doctors, including the Parkland doctors were controlled and forced to go along with a scripted lie that the wound was on the back of the head, Miller and Varnell attack me as naive. What the? Take the time and read what people are saying, will ya? If Miller and Varnell honestly believe that the Parkland doctors were forced to lie about the wound location, starting with their earliest reports, I'll eat my hat. No, better yet, I'll eat Ashton's hat.

No, Pat, I'm not taking you to task for sticking up for the witnesses. You have, once

again, attributed to me an argument I haven't made.

I am a champion of the first day witnesses.

I am taking you to task for exactly what I quoted you as saying:

It's ridiculous to think the WC covered up the location of the back wound while simultaneously deliberately sowing confusion about the head wound.

You're sticking up for the Warren Commission's wound conclusions, are you not?

Aren't you expressing contempt for the should-be-oh-so-obvious fact that the Warren

Commission covered up, deliberately sowed confusion, and otherwise acted as accessories

after the fact of JFK's murder?