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Where is the massive back head wound?


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For my part re Miller: not a prayer. I've just demonstrated conclusively in this thread that Miller created a complete fraud about JFK's head having an "abrupt left turn outward" by using Jacquie's hand. It's in the record right here in this topic. It's inarguable. All he's done since is throw more garbage by the ton into the thread to keep trying to sell his fraud. That's all he ever does. No rational discussion of any photographic or any other visual evidence is possible without Miller maliciously attacking and sabotaging it, turning on bold face, and spewing miles of his verbal sewage into the forum to assert endlessly that what isn't there is there, and that what is there isn't there. This is his sole activity, and apparently he has means to do pretty much nothing else.

Maybe Don Diabo is impressed with a guy who uses incorrect data and grossly misinterprets the photographical record because he won't cross reference the available information so to strive for accuracy, but it is unethical for someone to have their 3D model data shown to be in error and yet they continue to come up with the same conclusions by refusing to correct it. (the proof is shown below) It's nice that you make images of the plaza, but if you do not have the correct data put into your model, then the angles that you argue are wrong, thus you have no valid argument. For instance, your so-called 3D diagram is so far off that you don't even have JFK's head tilted properly.

You stated that Jackie's hand was on the back of JFK's head in my clip and the Nix film proves that you were totally in error about that, yet you still post as if you were correct. Jackie's hand passed between her and JFK's head and the Nix film proves it, unless of course you wish to take the position that the Nix film is altered.

Of course in doing so, he's the chief proponent of the Warren Commission's trump card: the phantom "avulsion" in the back of the head. In other words, Miller is the resident Warren Commission mouthpiece for the big, gaping hole in the back of the head—while pretending, of course, to be arguing against the Warren Commission findings. This is the double-speak always in the mouths of government shills.
To my knowledge, the WC never took the position that there was a large gaping hole in the back of JFK's head. Once again you have recklessly misstated part of the facts that supposedly led to the conclusion you are posting about. (you remind of someone who says that 3 + 6 = 11 and to prove it you then say that 11 - 6 = 3)
"Avulsion" hell. It doesn't exist. It never existed. It never will exist. Look at the Zapruder images I posted above. Then look at the single piece of medical photographic evidence that has any relevance whatsoever:

There. What do your own eyes tell you? Go back and look at the Zapruder images I enhanced, and look at this photo of the back of Kennedy's head, and shut off the babbling, barking mad, fraudulent, resident forum Warren Commission shill long enough to look for yourself and compare the two, and you decide who's trying to sell you a pig in a poke.

So the Dallas doctors were in error - is that your position? The Chief Neurosurgeon at Parkland who's job would have been to correct the damage to the President's head had they been able to stabilize JFK's condition said this under oath ....

Dr. CLARK - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously. The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted. in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly.

My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation.

I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed.

Tannenbaum is on record as pointing out that the report given to the HSCA said that no large wound was seen on the back of JFK's head at Bethesda, yet he goes on to point out that the sign off sheet with the signatures of those Bethesda personnel all said that it was there. The mortician who prepared the body for burial said he had to fit a rubber pad over that hole to cover it, so you keep denying it if it makes you feel good. I personally cannot see how all those independent witnesses can be wrong, but I can see why some disgruntled jerk-off would dismiss them all in an effort to spread propaganda to the contrary.

Do you see anything even remotely resembling a giant void in the back of Kennedy's head? I don't. Do you see the exact large flap of skull on the right front of his head that's clearly visible in the Zapruder frames? I do.

I have explained the process of motion blur and what it can do ... I cannopt make you smart enough to understand it and how it applies to the Zapruder film. After all, it was motion blur in the Weigman film that caused Jack White to think Zapruder and Sitzman were never on the pedestal and seeing how you do not hold to Jack's opinion, it tells me that you are actually aware of what motion blur can do.

Miller's already racing for the keyboard to whine his ass off for 20 paragraphs about how the 3D model is wrong, and I'm wrong, I don't have Mrs. Connally's teeth in the right place, I left out Jacquie's pill-box hat, and every other uttlerly irrelevant and nonsensical carping criticism he can dream up, and any dung he can manufacture to throw at it. But you're a rational and thoughtful person, so I'm sure you can understand that there's such a thing as acceptable tolerances in such a pursuit, and with that in mind, let's just slide around behind the limo and see where Miller's Magic Bullet came from.

This is what bothers me the most. Any idiot who has ever built anything knows that if you are off at the starting point, then the degree of error increases with distance. That means that when you do your panorama swings - if the data you started with is incorrect, then your line of sights are not correct. Don't take my word for it ... contact any company that works in 3D animation building and ask them if I am not correct. Take your 3D views to the plaza sometime and compare them to the real world. You will find that they are way the hell off. That means that your views of angles going to said points are inccorect as well. Possibly try contacting Gary Mack who is familar with the individuals/comapnies who did this kind of work for the various documentaries and see if what I am saying is not true - truth is what you are looking for - right?

And shame on those individuals who support such sloppy work when claiming to want to know the truth! Who among you would allow a carpenter to build you a home with a ruler that didn't have the inch markings spaced properly or some of them missing all together .... maybe an inch shows only .75 inches on the carpenters ruler, yet you find that John F. Kennedy doesn't deserve the same accuracy that you'd expect for yourselves. I applaud those who wish to implement 3D models into their investigation, but if the needed data so to have them be accurate so that the views are correct isn't there, then they are worthless.

Bill Miller

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1. Ashton is way off base in calling Bill a WC defender. What nonsense! The WC tried to avoid the whole back of the head/in front of the ear dichotomy in the eyewitness statements. They accepted testimony that the wound was on the back of the head AND in the front of the head and never tried to resolve the issue. The HSCA tried to resolve the issue by lying about it.
Ashton says a lot of things that aren't accurate, but accuracy is not something he strives for anyway.
2. Ashton is right on in that there is NO evidence for a large exit wound on the back of Kennedy's head visible in the Zapruder film. This is why Livingston and Lifton joined the Fetzer camp and now believe the Z film is fake, if i understand them correctly. Miller is pretty much alone in asserting that the avulsion (or "volcano shape" as Groden calls it) apparent on the back of the head is anything but hair. IT WAS HAIR. A quick snap of the skull causes long hair to react a split second later. That Kennedy's haircut was long in this part is confirmed by the left lateral autopsy photo. A close look at Kennedy's arrival in Fort Worth allows one to see Kennedy's hair responding to the wind. It blows into a similar volcano shape. I've captured this image and include it in my greatly-expanded presentation, which will hopefully be made available in the near future.
Pat, you are another one who chooses not to fit all the pieces together. For you to take the position that the Dallas doctors, among the 30 witnesses who said the same, didn't see nothing but hair and mistook that for avulsed bones on the back of the President's head is ridiculous.

Bill Miller

Bill, you are 100% wrong in this instance. I started out by reading Groden, and looking at the "Groden head" in The Killing of A President. He had a large entrance wound on the front of the head AND a large exit wound on the back of the head. The Parkland doctors saw only ONE wound and described the wound seen in the autopsy photos, with the exception that they remembered it being towards the back of the head. I decided to research whether or not looking at someone lying down could lead someone to misremember the location of a wound in the middle of that person's hair, and found a MOUNTAIN of research suggesting not only that such a mistake was possible, but likely. When I realized that Kennedy was not only on his back but in the Trendelenburg position, I realized that this is what happened. If you want to continue to believe in the mythical rear head wound, go right ahead, but you should really stop deceiving people into believing the "volcano shape" in the Zapruder film for a split second represents an exit. As stated, it was just hair. (I never said that the Parkland doctors were confused by this hair--that would make no sense as they hadn't even seen the Zapruder film.) As far as Dr. Clark, he saw one large wound and assumed it to be both entrance and exit. I share his appraisal. You seem to be saying there was a large entrance on the top of the head AND a large exit towards the back. If I am incorrect and you share my appraisal of the head wound--that it was one large wound--I apologize. As it is, we share at least one perception--both of us feel certain there was no impact on the back of the head at frame 313, and that the bullet impacted on the top of Kennedy's head at the purported exit. I just think it came from behind and you just think it came it from in front. If it came from in front, how do you explain the fragments on the front seat? It's not that it's impossible they were planted. I'm just trying to understand your perspective...

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Nix frame and 337

LeDoux-Miller.jpg

Hi, Ed.

I notice you don't post a Nix frame number with the image you supplied for the Macabre Clown, Bill Miller. Stay tuned.

Now, with that exhibit you posted above, I'm going to demonstrate to you just how the Macabre Flimflammer made a mark of you, made you his water carrier, made you into a shill for the Macabre Shill.

I'm not doing this to embarrass you. And I didn't leave you hung out to dry this long in order to embarrass you. I did leave this till now because I new the Macabre Jackass would bray about it, and I wanted him to have ample opportunity to bray about it before I exposed him—for the second time in this thread—for the complete malicious fraud and humbug he is.

I'm sorry if you are becoming collateral damage, but then, really, it's by your own hand, isn't it? It's by playing into his game, buying into his fraud, listening to his deceit and accepting it glibly and without inspection.

So here's the truth, Ed. Here are the actual Nix frames that align to Z335 and Z337. They match entirely. And they have nothing whatsoever to do with what you posted in support of the Macabre Swindler:

Z335-N45HAND.jpg

Z337-N47HANDSTREAK.jpg

He sure has brayed about the deceit he tricked you into to helping him with, though, hasn't he?

And here's the really frightening part: by his own admission, he's made a long in-depth study of these films. So know this: it was no accident that he conned you. It was knowing. It was willful. It was malicious.

There's no shame in getting taken in by the Macbre Huckster. God knows, plenty of people have been. Spread the word and see how many you can recover.

Ashton

P.S. Although they may see it differently, for what it's worth I consider the matched frames I posted above to be an example of the accuracy of the sync work by Frank Agbat and John Dolva on the Zapruder and Nix films

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P.S. Although they may see it differently, for what it's worth I consider the matched frames I posted above to be an example of the accuracy of the sync work by Frank Agbat and John Dolva on the Zapruder and Nix films

Ashton, I refuse to believe that you can be as stupid as you are pretending to be. The avulsion was on the right posterior half of the President's head and this is why I used the term over and over again "silhouette". Even an idiot can turn a football until its pointed end disappears. You have chosen to use frames where the President's head was turned in such a way that you were not seeing the avulsion because of the angle the camera had at it. Did you really think you could get away with such deception? Maybe instead of trying to figure out ways to decieve the reader - just spend some of that time and energy addressing the blood spray evidence that Sherry Gutierrez presented to you on Lancer's forum.

Bill Miller

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Bill, you are 100% wrong in this instance. I started out by reading Groden, and looking at the "Groden head" in The Killing of A President. He had a large entrance wound on the front of the head AND a large exit wound on the back of the head. The Parkland doctors saw only ONE wound and described the wound seen in the autopsy photos, with the exception that they remembered it being towards the back of the head. I decided to research whether or not looking at someone lying down could lead someone to misremember the location of a wound in the middle of that person's hair, and found a MOUNTAIN of research suggesting not only that such a mistake was possible, but likely. When I realized that Kennedy was not only on his back but in the Trendelenburg position, I realized that this is what happened. If you want to continue to believe in the mythical rear head wound, go right ahead, but you should really stop deceiving people into believing the "volcano shape" in the Zapruder film for a split second represents an exit. As stated, it was just hair. (I never said that the Parkland doctors were confused by this hair--that would make no sense as they hadn't even seen the Zapruder film.) As far as Dr. Clark, he saw one large wound and assumed it to be both entrance and exit. I share his appraisal. You seem to be saying there was a large entrance on the top of the head AND a large exit towards the back. If I am incorrect and you share my appraisal of the head wound--that it was one large wound--I apologize. As it is, we share at least one perception--both of us feel certain there was no impact on the back of the head at frame 313, and that the bullet impacted on the top of Kennedy's head at the purported exit. I just think it came from behind and you just think it came it from in front. If it came from in front, how do you explain the fragments on the front seat? It's not that it's impossible they were planted. I'm just trying to understand your perspective...

Pat, I too, read Groden's stuff when I started out and he has since conceded some of his initiol misconceptions. I only know of two people at Parkland who saw the large bone plate and that was Baxter and Clark after the President had been declared dead. Treating doctor after doctor, as I recall, didn't see the large bone plate because it had been put back into place and the blood soaked hair must have concealed it. They did however, see the damage to the back of the President's head. Richard Smith has documented over 30 of those witnesses right up to the mortician. I am not a witness to the event, but a messenger. The bone plate came off the top of the head and is well documented on the Zapruder film, unless you also want to take the position that the Zapruder film has been altered. The large bone plate itself is not an entrance wound ... the entrance wound would be along the outer edge of that bone plate. The bone plate was the result of a fracture caused by the bullet entering the skull. I have stated this many times and I see no reason to misquoted at this point.

Read this very carefully - Dennis David told me that they are taught at Bethesda that a bullet's entrance wound will be found along the outer edge of the bone plate when such a plate flies off. It's not in the middle of the plate, but on its edge. This is why the back spatter that Sherry teaches us about is visible on the assassination films. The back spatter is released first and has a wider pattern upon release than the exit wound which is traveling much faster. (several examples have been posted) I never seen where you address all the said witnesses or the science behind the back spatter, but instead you just promptly say the rear head wound never existed - which is ridiculous. Hell, not you or Ashton has tried to explain the large protrusion on the back of JFK's head other than to say that when someone flips their head back - the hair remains standing straight up - that analogy is also ridiculous. I recall some testimony where the Dallas doctors had even considered that the large wound on the back of the head was possibly due to a bullet entering the front of the neck and deflecting slightly upwards and exiting the back of the head. ( I guess they didn't consider your standing hair theory!) And when can someone see into standing hair and see the cerebellum?

Dr. PERRY - Dr. Clark's arrival was first noted to me after the completion of the tracheotomy, .................................... I continued it as Dr. Clark examined the head wound and observed the cardiotachyscope.

Dr. PERRY - As I mentioned previously in the record, I made only a cursory examination of the President's head. I noted a large avulsive wound of the right parietal occipital area,

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the President's head, specifically?

Dr. PERRY - I saw no injuries other than the one which I noted to you, which was a large avulsive injury of the right occipitoparietal area ....

MR. GUNN: Dr. Baxter I've given the other doctors a little bit of background, and during a break I can talk to you about what we have said before and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. This will not be a typical deposition format, but I'd like to have a discussion.

At this point I just want to briefly refer to previous statements that had been made by you and the other doctors regarding the wound to President Kennedy's head.

Going back to Dr. Carrico -- and again, this one is not present for you -- he said to the House Select Committee on Assassinations that there was a large wound in the right side of the head in the parieto-occipital area. One could see blood and brains, both cerebral and cerebrum fragments in that wound. Let me -- let me read this again. He said both cerebellum and cerebrum fragments in that wound. I stated that incorrectly. Later he said -- this -- still to the House Select Committee on Assassinations -- "The head wound was much larger wound than the neck wound. It was five by seven centimeters, something like that, two-and-a-half by three. inches, ragged , had blood and hair all around it, located in the part of the parieto-occipital region, and there was brain tissue showing through."

The next testimony comes from Dr. Clark. This is MD 37. And in a summary that was typed up -- this is on Commission Exhibit 392 -- again, part of the package that I have given to you -- he refers to there was a wound, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull.

And then on the second page Dr. Clark referred to "there was a large wound in the right occipitoparietal region"Then in his testimony to the Warren Commission he refers on page 20 to a large gaping wound in the right posterior part with cerebral -excuse me -cerebral & cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed.

On Page 29 he says that there was a much larger wound in the right occipital region of the President's skull from which consider -- considerable blood loss had occurred, which stained the back of his head, neck, and upper shoulders.

Then to Dr. Jenkins he refers -- this is from packet MD 96. He refers to a great laceration on the right side of the head temporal and occipital. He also says the cerebellum had protruded from the wound.

In his testimony to the Warren Commission he said that -- on Page 48 he thought that this wound in the head was a wound of exit, although he wasn't sure. He said, quote, "I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound."

MR. GUNN: Dr. Baxter I've given the other doctors a little bit of background, and during a break I can talk to you about what we have said before and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. This will not be a typical deposition format, but I'd like to have a discussion.

At this point I just want to briefly refer to previous statements that had been made by you and the other doctors regarding the wound to President Kennedy's head.

Going back to Dr. Carrico -- and again, this one is not present for you -- he said to the House Select Committee on Assassinations that there was a large wound in the right side of the head in the parieto-occipital area. One could see blood and brains, both cerebral and cerebrum fragments in that wound. Let me -- let me read this again. He said both cerebellum and cerebrum fragments in that wound. I stated that incorrectly. Later he said -- this -- still to the House Select Committee on Assassinations -- "The head wound was much larger wound than the neck wound. It was five by seven centimeters, something like that, two-and-a-half by three. inches, ragged , had blood and hair all around it, located in the part of the parieto-occipital region, and there was brain tissue showing through."

The next testimony comes from Dr. Clark. This is MD 37. And in a summary that was typed up -- this is on Commission Exhibit 392 -- again, part of the package that I have given to you -- he refers to there was a wound, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull. And then on the second page Dr. Clark referred to "there was a large wound in the right occipitoparietal region"

Then in his testimony to the Warren Commission he refers on page 20 to a large gaping wound in the right posterior part with cerebral -excuse me -cerebral & cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed.

On Page 29 he says that there was a much larger wound in the right occipital region of the President's skull from which consider -- considerable blood loss had occurred, which stained the back of his head, neck, and upper shoulders.

Then to Dr. Jenkins he refers -- this is from packet MD 96. He refers to a great laceration on the right side of the head temporal and occipital. He also says the cerebellum had protruded from the wound.

In his testimony to the Warren Commission he said that -- on Page 48 he thought that this wound in the head was a wound of exit, although he wasn't sure. He said, quote, "I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound." He then said that, "I thought there was a wound on the left temporal area right in the hairline and right above the zygomatic process."

From Page 51 of his Warren Commission testimony he says, "Because the wound with the exploded area of the scalp, as I interpreted it being exploded, I would interpret it being a wound of exit, and the appearance of the wound in the neck, and I also thought it was it a wound of exit."

Finally in his testimony to the House Select Committee on Assassinations he said, There was one segment of bone blown out. It was a segment of occipital or temporal bone. He noted that a portion of the cerebellum, lower rear brain, was hanging out from the hole in the right rear of the head.

Then Dr. Jones in his testimony to the Warren Commission -- this is Packet MD 98. On Page 53 he says there was a small wound at the midline of the neck and a large wound in the right posterior side of the head, a large -- later, there was a large defect in the back side of the head.

And then in-- testimony to the Warren Commission on Page 56 he said that there appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull. And, Mr. Specter referred to that as the top of the President's head.

And finally in handwritten comment -- this is on the last page of the packet that I have given to you. It says there was a small -- that just refers to the -- to the neck wound. I won't read that.

Then Dr. McClelland in his testimony to the Warren Commission said, "I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted. It had been shattered apparently by the force of the shot so that the parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp and seemed to be fractured almost along its right posterior half, as well as some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral half. And this sprung open the bones that I had mentioned in such a way that you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out,"

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THREE PATIENTS at PARKLAND

From State Journal of Medicine, dated January, 1964. It was written in late

November/early December, 1963 before the 'OFFICIAL' story was set in stone.

provided by Michael Parks.

Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, treats an average of 272 emergency cases a day. It is adjacent to and is the major teaching hospital for the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School. It is staffed by the faculty of the medical school and has 150 interns and residents in all medical specialties. It is a modern hospital, well equipped, one of which any community might be proud. Today and for none of these reasons-Parkland has a new reputation all over the world, and historians are typing its name into manuscripts that will be textbooks for generations to come. This has happened because three particular gunshot victims were carried there out of the bright November sunlight, two to die and the third to leave by wheelchair almost two weeks later, his arm in a sling.

Many Texas physicians have visited Parkland hospital; many have worked or trained there. Members of the Parkland staff are their acquaintances and friends. Many Texas physicians know personally the surviving gunshot victim, Gov. John Connally; some personally knew President John F. Kennedy, who died in Trauma Room 1; perhaps a few even knew Lee Harvey Oswald, the man charged by Dallas authorities with the assassination of the President and who was himself shot two days later.

The assassination of President Kennedy, the wounding of Governor Connally, and the fatal shooting of Oswald are events of profound import to people everywhere, but they have special, personal meaning for Texans. So because a Texas hospital and Texas physicians figured prominently in this tragedy, the Texas State Journal of Medicine records for its readers of the medical profession a full account of treatment given a never-to-be-forgotten trio.

When President John F. Kennedy in a moribund condition entered Parkland on Nov. 22, there was never opportunity for medical history taking. Such a history, had it been taken, would have shown that the patient "had survived several illnesses, the danger of war, the rigor of exposure in icy water, and . . . had waged grueling electoral campaigns in spite of a serious and painful back injury."

Parkland records show that the President arrived at the emergency room sometime after 12:30 p.m. (There is conflict as to the exact moment.) At 1 p.m. Dr. William Kemp Clark, associate professor and chairman of the Division of Neurosurgery of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, declared him dead. During the interim of less than 30 minutes, continuous resuscitative efforts were made.

Later that day, several attending physicians filed reports. The following identifies these physicians and gives the gist of their reports:

Charles J Carrico - Dr. Carrico was the first physician to see the President. A 1961 graduate of Southwestern Medical School, he is 28 and a resident in surgery at Parkland.

He reported that when the patient entered the emergency room on an ambulance carriage he had slow agonal respiratory efforts and occasional cardiac beats detectable by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted; one a small wound of the anterior neck in the lower one third. The other wound had caused avulsion of the occipitoparietal calvarium and shredded brain tissue was present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were bilaterally dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted through the laryngoscope. A ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was advanced past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration was instituted using a respirator assistor on automatic cycling. Concurrently, an intravenous infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun via catheter placed in the right leg. Blood was drawn for typing and crossmatching. Type 0 Rh negative blood was obtained immediately.

In view of the tracheal injury and diminished breath sounds in the right chest, tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Malcolm 0. Perry and bilateral chest tubes inserted. A second intravenous infusion was begun in the left arm. In addition, Dr. M. T. Jenkins began respiration with the anesthesia machine, cardiac monitor and stimulator attached. Solu-Cortef (300 mg.) was given intravenously. Despite those measures, blood pressure never returned. Only brief electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity was obtained.

Malcolm 0. Perry - Dr. Perry is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical School from which he received his degree in 1955. He was 34 years old and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963.

At the time of initial examination of the President, Dr. Perry has stated, the patient was noted to be nonresponsive . His eyes were deviated and the pupils dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage, and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.

Pulse or heart beat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being controlled. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg. While additional venesections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The cuffed tracheostomy tube was put in place as the endotracheal tube was withdrawn and respirations continued. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed-drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. When electrocardiogram evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart, resuscitative attempts were abandoned. The team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.

Charles R. Baxter - Dr. Baxter is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical School where he first arrived as a medical student in 1950. Except for two years away in the Army he has been at Southwestern and Parkland ever since, moving up from student to intern to resident to faculty member. He is 34 and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963.

Recalling his attendance to President Kennedy, he says he learned at approximately 12 :35 that the President was on the way to the emergency room and that he had been shot. When Dr. Baxter arrived in the emergency room, he found an endotracheal tube in place and respirations being assisted. A left chest tube was being inserted and cut-downs were functioning in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the midline of the neck. On first observation of the other wounds, portions of the right temporal and occipital bones were missing and some of the brain was lying on the table. The rest of the brain was extensively macerated and contused. The pupils were fixed and deviated laterally and were dilated. No pulse was detectable and ineffectual respirations were being assisted. A tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Dr. Baxter and a chest tube was inserted into the right chest (second interspace anteriorly). Meanwhile one pint of O negative blood was administered without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Closed chest massage was performed until a cardioscope could be attached.

Brief cardiac activity was obtained followed by no activity. Due to the extensive and irreparable brain damage which existed and since there were no signs of life, no further attempts were made at resuscitation.

Robert N. McClelland - Dr. McClelland, 34, assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical School, is a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. He has served with the Air Force in Germany and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963.

Regarding the assassination of President Kennedy, Dr. McClelland says that at approximately 12:35 p.m. he was called from the second floor of the hospital to the emergency room. When he arrived, President Kennedy was being attended by Drs. Perry, Baxter, Carrico, and Ronald Jones, chief resident in surgery. The President was at that time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube had been placed and assisted respiration started by Dr. Carrico who was on duty in the emergency room when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland performed a tracheostomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury. Dr. Jones and Dr. Paul Peters, assistant professor of surgery, ; inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoraces secondary to the tracheo-mediastinal injury. Dr. Jones and assistants had started three cutdowns, giving blood and fluids immediately.

In spite of this, the President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark, the neurosurgeon, who arrived immediately after Dr. McClelland. The cause of death, according to Dr. McClelland was the massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the right side of the head. The President was pronounced dead after external cardiac massage failed and electrocardiographic activity was gone.

Fouad A, Bashour - Dr. Bashour received his medical education at the University of Beirut School of Medicine in Lebanon. He is 39 and an associate professor of medicine in cardiology at Southwestern Medical School.

At 12 :50 p.m. Dr. Bashour was called from the first floor of the hospital and told that President Kennedy had been shot. He and Dr. Donald Seldin, professor and chairman of the Department of Internal Medicine, went to the emergency room. Upon examination, they found that the President had no pulsations, no heart beats, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The President was declared dead at 1:00 p.m.

William Kemp Clark - Dr. Clark is associate professor and chairman of the Division of Neurosurgery at Southwestern Medical School. The 38-year-old physician has done research on head injuries and has been at Southwestern since 1956.

He reports this account of the President's treatment:

The President arrived at the emergency room entrance in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. Carrico.

Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agonal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heart beat but found no pulse or blood pressure. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube and while doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx.

At this time, Drs. Perry, Baxter, and Jones arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. Jenkins and Drs. A. H. Giesecke, Jr., and Jackie H. Hunt, two other staff anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a respirator to assist the President's breathing. An anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100 per cent oxygen was administered.

A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for typing and crossmatching, but unmatched type O Rh negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone (300 mg.) was added to the intravenous fluids.

Dr. McClelland arrived to help in the President's care. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland did a tracheostomy. Considerable quantities of blood were present in the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Peters and Dr. Clark arrived.

Dr. Clark noted that the President had bled profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 by 3 cm.) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also.

The tracheostomy was completed and the endotracheal tube was withdrawn. Suction was used to remove blood in the oral pharynx. A nasogastric tube was passed into the stomach. Because of the likelihood of mediastinal injury, anterior chest tubes were placed in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage.

Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dilated and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. No deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found.

When Dr. Clark noted that there was no carotid pulse, he began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral levels.

Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so that Dr. Clark could evaluate the head wound.

There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the right posterior skull, at brief examination, appeared gone. The previously described extruding brain was present. Profuse bleeding had occurred and 1500 cc. of blood was estimated to be on the drapes and floor of the emergency operating room. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.

By this time an electrocardiograph was hooked up. There was brief electrical activity of the heart which soon stopped.

The President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark.

M. T. Jenkins - Dr. Jenkins is professor and chairman of the Department of Anesthesiology at Southwestern Medical School. He is 46, a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, and was certified by the American Board of Anesthesiology in 1952. During World War II he served in the Navy as a lieutenant commander.

When Dr. Jenkins was notified that the President was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland, he dispatched Drs. Giesecke and Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area. He ran downstairs to find upon his arrival in the emergency operating room that Dr. Carrico had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus. Drs. Baxter, Perry, and McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage. Drs. Peters and Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation. Dr. Jenkins believes it evidence of the clear thinking of the resuscitative team that the patient received 300 mg. hydrocortisone intravenously in the first few minutes.

For better control of artificial ventilation, Dr. Jenkins exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation. Dr. Gene Akin, a resident in anesthesiology, and Dr. Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity.

During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank. All of these activities were completed by approximately 12:50 at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Dr. Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was only brief electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity.

These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out, attention was turned to other evidences of injury. There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that part of the right cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart. With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage. President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1 p.m.

It is Dr. Jenkins' personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently. However, he says, the cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause irreversible damage.

******************************

Dr.Kemp Clark noted, confirming under oath......

that, " in the occipital ( lower posterior ) region of the skull ...........there was a large wound in the right occipitalparietal ( where the side meets rear) region.."

Since the assassination Dr.Clark has been extremely reluctant to converse with anyone, in 1994 he did, to Dr.Cyril Wecht through David Nero....see letter...

B..

Edited by Bernice Moore
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OK Ash, I understand your POV.

I do have some quick questions, (on the hoof at the minute, going out for first drink over Xmas with some friends now).

1. Why would the WC (or it's alleged supporters) argue for a frontal shot leading to an avulsion of JFKs head.

First, generally, the Warren Commission was stacked with the father of the CIA—John J. McCloy—and the man who wrote the book on disinformation and psy-ops—Allen Dulles. And I could just leave it right there and go have a drink myself, you dawg, you. I really don't know what else needs to be said.

Of course the WC didn't argue for a frontal shot, finding the exact opposite. And equally of course, at the same time, the WC also planted the seeds of endless controversy by having every medical person who testified swear that there was a gaping wound at the back of JFK's skull. And realize, please, that although they did not release it at the time, at all relevant times—while Count Specter the Spectre was carefully leading each doctor and nurse and hospital personnel through their rehearsed "testimony" <SPIT>, ALL of them claiming there was a huge hole in the back of the skull—you can bet that every person on the Warren Commission had access to and had seen this:

jfkautopsyheadrearfixbig.jpg

:blink:

Here's the drill: look at that photo with your eyes (just as everyone on the Warren Commission had), and then go to this article that has a nice condensation of the relevant WC testimony, then come back here and look at that photo, then go back and read that testimony again, and then come back here and look at that photo, and then...

Well, probably just go out on a balcony and puke over the rail. Your head will stop spinning and you might feel better.

Note that Specter <SPIT!> never bothers to mention this troublesome photo, and never once questions the "testimony".

Well, that's not exactly true: There's one point where he does question the testimony, and I don't mind telling you that this little seemingly innocuous exchange, when the wraith Specter is questioning Nurse Diana Bowron, is one of the most frightening things I've read in the literature:

  • SPECTER: And what, in a general way, did you observe with respect to President Kennedy's condition?
    MISS BOWRON: He was very pale, he was lying across Mrs. Kennedy's knee and there seemed to be blood everywhere. When I went around to the other side of the car I saw the condition of his head.
    SPECTER: You saw the condition of his what?
    MISS BOWRON: The back of his head.

And if that doesn't chill a man to the bone, I don't think he's been paying very close attention.

2. The Fox5 photo you state as being the only relevant one...why not the others?
I meant relevant to this topic, to this thread, and I hope I've answered the question now in the above. If not, I don't know what to add. There's the back right side of the head in the photo above. I don't know what else to say. I think number 4 of the Fox series has that part of the head, too. (Funny that it's cropped right where the ruler [that can't be read] is placed in Fox 5.)
3. What causes the violent backward motion of JFK...as compared to the comparatively short (length and duration (sounds like my sex life)) forward motion.

Too much information, Gary. :)

Well, all I can give you is my opinion. I've given it already on this in some other thread (I've lost track), but there I mentioned that nerve impulses travel at 100 m/s, and there's nothing I've seen that argues compellingly against it being a convulsive reaction to the head shot itself. If you've ever seen anyone draw his hand back from a hot stove element, I dare say you might have seen it drawn back, but I betcha' you didn't see it draw back. And the "chicken with his head cut off" expression didn't come from nowhere.

Unless and until I encounter some evidence that says the body can't initiate just such a reaction to sudden massive trauma, especially to the nervous system itself, then it makes far, far more sense to me than the notion that a bullet to the head (which is on a pivoting skeletal structure) knocked his torso back to the left.

Obviously, I'm in a minority. So what's new?

Ps love the invade Cuba now banner. Are you a graphic artist??

Depends on who you talk to. Maybe somebody ought to ask Bill Miller. ;)

Ashton

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(I write this as I'm certain of the fact, but can't find the relevant page again to direct memeebrs to the relevant description or the name of the person making the description, I read it some time ago but didn't understand it)

The writer went to the archives and viewed the rear head photo pairs in a stereoscopic viewer. What struck him was that the area that should show the gaping hole was not only covered with scalp but it seemed to be a scalp that had no depth. It looked to him like it was so different from the surrounding area and that this odd area was where the gaping hole should be. His conclusion was that the photos had been doctored.

I suggest that this proves they have NOT been doctored and that they DO show the gaping hole. What he is describing is the flattened scalp where it is stretched over the hole, and the outline of this flattened area describes the gaping hole perfectly.

Edited by John Dolva
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(I write this as I'm certain of the fact, but can't find the relevant page again to direct memeebrs to the relevant description or the name of the person making the description, I read it some time ago but didn't understand it)

The writer went to the archives and viewed the rear head photo pairs in a stereoscopic viewer. What struck him was that the area that should show the gaping hole was not only covered with scalp but it seemed to be a scalp that had no depth. It looked to him like it was so different from the surrounding area and that this odd area was where the gaping hole should be. His conclusion was that the photos had been doctored.

I suggest that this proves they have NOT been doctored and that they DO show the gaping hole. What he is describing is the flattened scalp where it is stretched over the hole, and the outline of this flattened area describes the gaping hole perfectly.

I can't follow the (canned) medical recitations, and conceive from them that there would be sufficient scalp to achieve anything remotely like that, much less in such prisitine condition that Fox 4 and 5 could be so faked. That seems like more of a...well, stretch...to me than that the photos were retouched.

The entire convoluted question boils down rather simply to two possibilities: the photographic evidence is fake (including what the films show) or the testimony is a pack of scripted lies.

The medical testimony certainly is consistent: I'll give you that. It is so consistent that it all uses precisely the same language for describing not just the wounds and procedures, but even where blood and cerebral tissue was on the cart, the floor—even multiple mentions of tissue on the drapes of the cart. Only a few testifiers deviate at all from the precise same language, and even those only as minor augmentations. It is uncannily canny in its consistency. (That last sentence has almost as many puns as it has words.)

Ashton

Edited by Ashton Gray
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Ashton,

If you have a couple of minutes I wonder if you could explain why

the Parkland doctors immediately performed a tracheometry on

a guy with gun wounds in his head but not his throat.

I'd start a seperate thread on the issue, but I'd have to see more

of the Gospel According to Ashton Gray.

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Human nature is enduringly comic.

The first people to cop a self-righteous attitude are also the first people

to engage in slimey rhetorical tactics.

At least, that's how it works on the Education Forum...

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OK Ash, I understand your POV.

I do have some quick questions, (on the hoof at the minute, going out for first drink over Xmas with some friends now).

1. Why would the WC (or it's alleged supporters) argue for a frontal shot leading to an avulsion of JFKs head.

First, generally, the Warren Commission was stacked with the father of the CIA—John J. McCloy—and the man who wrote the book on disinformation and psy-ops—Allen Dulles. And I could just leave it right there and go have a drink myself, you dawg, you. I really don't know what else needs to be said.

Of course the WC didn't argue for a frontal shot, finding the exact opposite. And equally of course, at the same time, the WC also planted the seeds of endless controversy by having every medical person who testified swear that there was a gaping wound at the back of JFK's skull. And realize, please, that although they did not release it at the time, at all relevant times—while Count Specter the Spectre was carefully leading each doctor and nurse and hospital personnel through their rehearsed "testimony" <SPIT>, ALL of them claiming there was a huge hole in the back of the skull—you can bet that every person on the Warren Commission had access to and had seen this:

jfkautopsyheadrearfixbig.jpg

:blink:

Here's the drill: look at that photo with your eyes (just as everyone on the Warren Commission had), and then go to this article that has a nice condensation of the relevant WC testimony, then come back here and look at that photo, then go back and read that testimony again, and then come back here and look at that photo, and then...

Well, probably just go out on a balcony and puke over the rail. Your head will stop spinning and you might feel better.

Note that Specter <SPIT!> never bothers to mention this troublesome photo, and never once questions the "testimony".

Ashton

Ashton, you're just making stuff up now. Specter belatedly admitted to seeing one autopsy photo--of the back wound--courtesy of the Secret Service. His acknowledgment of this event proves he knew the Rydberg drawings were inaccurate. And yet he said nothing to the WC about it. There is nothing to indicate he saw the other photos. The only member of the WC to admit seeing the photos is Warren. Others saying they saw a picture or pictures were apparently referring to the face sheet or Rydberg drawings.

It's ridiculous to think the WC covered up the location of the back wound while simultaneously deliberately sowing confusion about the head wound. Why would they do this? To deliberately confuse the public and damage the public's faith in institutions--exactly the opposite of their presumed mission? And why would all the doctors go along with a scripted rear head wound, knowing that the shot was purported to have come from behind? Were they too out to destroy the public's faith in its government? Is there anyone EVER in your opinion whose sworn testimony was not "controlled" or "scripted" in some way?

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