Is Bush planning an attack on Iran in March?

[Mark Stapleton]

And for the record, since it went right over your head,I never suggested that the entire world is arrayed against Iran. Are you simply projecting here? What I stated and still remains true, is that the entire world is at RISK.

Talk about backtracking. Craig wrote, "The world has a real problem with Iran, that is REALITY".

Now he claims he didn't say it. Given your track record Craig, next you'll be telling me black is white.

Goodness me.

[Mark Stapleton]

Though I largely agree with you that war or a strike against Iran would be an unjustified act of insanity I think you’re wrong in believing that nation getting nukes wouldn’t be a serious problem. Despite your assertions to the contrary many people in Europe or at least their elected leaders seem to think likewise. Who do you imagine are the “corporate masters (and financial sponsors)” of the “prostitute politicians from the UK, France and Canada who advocate war” whose corporate interest is it in to go to war with Iran other than arms dealers. There is a difference between saying a nuclear Iran is a problem and advocating war against that country.

You're right, Len. There is a difference between saying a nuclear Iran is a problem on one hand and advocating war against that country on the other. You say yes to the former and no to the latter. Is that right? I'm saying no to the former and no to the latter. Hence, our primary disagreement rests in the assertion that a nuclear Iran is a problem.

Can you tell me how a nuclear Iran is a problem for the world? Do you think they will nuke Israel or the US? Are they maniacal warmongers? Please cite evidence.

The most dangerous warmongers in today's world are Israel and the US. They have the track record to prove it.

Time for a quiz: Which country invaded a sovereign nation in 2003 on the false pretext of WMD's? Which country has interefered in Iran's domestic affairs for half a century, dating back to the CIA overthrow of the Mossadegh Government in 1953 and the subsequent installation of a puppet regime? Which country currently has a defence budget of over $600 billion (easily the planet's largest) despite the fact that no immediate military threat to their country exists? Which country was complicit in the assassination and subsequent coverup of its own elected President in order to establish a more militarist foreign policy regime? I'll give you a clue--the nation in question has a chimp in charge who is a laughing stock among more urbane and intelligent world leaders (ie. all of them) and a cringing embarrassment to thinking Americans.

Part two of the quiz goes like this: Which country has illegally occupied Palestinian territory for four decades? Which country swore to succesive Presidents that it would not be the first nation in the region to acquire nuclear weapons yet went ahead and did precisely that? Which country has refused to be a party to nuclear nonproliferation agreements yet demands that Iran abide by such agreements? Which country has an active policy of assassinating resistance leaders from neighbouring countries and pays no regard to the civilian casualties it inflicts on the way? Which country has illegally sealed the borders of Gaza (a nation of 1.5 million people with a median age of 16--hence half the population are children) which the UN believes will result in a humanitarian catastrophe? Which country reponds to acts of terrorism by punishing the civilian populations of its neighbours? Which country introduced terrorism to the region prior to the partitioning of Palestine in 1948? I'll give you a clue--the nation in question has had many leaders who have been former terrorists and they also call themselves God's chosen people.

[Craig Lamson]

And for the record, since it went right over your head,I never suggested that the entire world is arrayed against Iran. Are you simply projecting here? What I stated and still remains true, is that the entire world is at RISK.

Talk about backtracking. Craig wrote, "The world has a real problem with Iran, that is REALITY".

Now he claims he didn't say it. Given your track record Craig, next you'll be telling me black is white.

Goodness me.

Goodness me is right Mark. Is it any wonder you are so confused. Read my words a words ONE MORE TIME and perhaps they will sink in. Then read you sad atttempt to twist those words to suit your needs.

Just who is making black into white?

Sure not me.

I guess that leaves you.

Enjoy your fantasy.

Hey btw, they still playing the victim card in Palestine these days?

Edited October 3, 2007 by Craig Lamson

[Mark Stapleton]

And for the record, since it went right over your head,I never suggested that the entire world is arrayed against Iran. Are you simply projecting here? What I stated and still remains true, is that the entire world is at RISK.

Talk about backtracking. Craig wrote, "The world has a real problem with Iran, that is REALITY".

Now he claims he didn't say it. Given your track record Craig, next you'll be telling me black is white.

Goodness me.

Goodness me is right Mark. Is it any wonder you are so confused. Read my words a words ONE MORE TIME and perhaps they will sink in. Then read you sad atttempt to twist those words to suit your needs.

Just who is making black into white?

Sure not me.

I guess that leaves you.

Enjoy your fantasy.

Hey btw, they still playing the victim card in Palestine these days?

Ah yes. Your trademark tactic. When you're caught out bang to rights you quickly resort to insulting provocation. Sorry, but I think I'll turn the tables on you.

btw, Iran is getting nukes and there ain't a thing you can do about it. Moreover, under the stewardship of the chimp, America is rapidly going down the path of a poor white trash nation, while Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran and other nations are entering agreements to ensure their long term future energy needs. America is being circumvented, superseeded, left behind, and in some cases, specifically excluded. In a few short years even those prostitute politicians from France, Canada and the UK won't be around to support you with their bought and paid for rhetoric. You'll be all alone, a sad pathetic figure with nothing but the hollow ring of empty rhetoric to keep you warm. Have a nice slide, Clyde.

[Craig Lamson]

And for the record, since it went right over your head,I never suggested that the entire world is arrayed against Iran. Are you simply projecting here? What I stated and still remains true, is that the entire world is at RISK.

Talk about backtracking. Craig wrote, "The world has a real problem with Iran, that is REALITY".

Now he claims he didn't say it. Given your track record Craig, next you'll be telling me black is white.

Goodness me.

Goodness me is right Mark. Is it any wonder you are so confused. Read my words a words ONE MORE TIME and perhaps they will sink in. Then read you sad atttempt to twist those words to suit your needs.

Just who is making black into white?

Sure not me.

I guess that leaves you.

Enjoy your fantasy.

Hey btw, they still playing the victim card in Palestine these days?

Ah yes. Your trademark tactic. When you're caught out bang to rights you quickly resort to insulting provocation. Sorry, but I think I'll turn the tables on you.

btw, Iran is getting nukes and there ain't a thing you can do about it. Moreover, under the stewardship of the chimp, America is rapidly going down the path of a poor white trash nation, while Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran and other nations are entering agreements to ensure their long term future energy needs. America is being circumvented, superseeded, left behind, and in some cases, specifically excluded. In a few short years even those prostitute politicians from France, Canada and the UK won't be around to support you with their bought and paid for rhetoric. You'll be all alone, a sad pathetic figure with nothing but the hollow ring of empty rhetoric to keep you warm. Have a nice slide, Clyde.

Caught out? Surely you jest Mark. I suggest to try and figure out the difference between, "has a real problem", "is arrayed against ". You suck at spin.

Provocation? I'm just asking how your vaunted freinds in Palestine are getting on. Have they grown up yet and decided to get on with life? Or still playing the victim card?

But I have to tell you I'm simply amazed at your ability to see the future. Have you ever considered joining the circus?

[Mark Stapleton]

Provocation? I'm just asking how your vaunted freinds in Palestine are getting on. Have they grown up yet and decided to get on with life? Or still playing the victim card?

But I have to tell you I'm simply amazed at your ability to see the future. Have you ever considered joining the circus?

Yeah, right. The victim card. And I suppose Israel has never played the victim card, eh Craigie?

I guess the fact that I can see what is happeneing in the world makes me sound like a soothsayer to you. Poor fellow. I forgot that you can't see the outside world from within that opaque bubble of yours but hey, you can still get Foxnews so switch it on quick and you can hear more about your make believe world before it all disappears in a puff of smoke.

[Guest David Guyatt]

Though I largely agree with you that war or a strike against Iran would be an unjustified act of insanity I think you’re wrong in believing that nation getting nukes wouldn’t be a serious problem. Despite your assertions to the contrary many people in Europe or at least their elected leaders seem to think likewise. Who do you imagine are the “corporate masters (and financial sponsors)” of the “prostitute politicians from the UK, France and Canada who advocate war” whose corporate interest is it in to go to war with Iran other than arms dealers. There is a difference between saying a nuclear Iran is a problem and advocating war against that country.

You're right, Len. There is a difference between saying a nuclear Iran is a problem on one hand and advocating war against that country on the other. You say yes to the former and no to the latter. Is that right? I'm saying no to the former and no to the latter. Hence, our primary disagreement rests in the assertion that a nuclear Iran is a problem.

Can you tell me how a nuclear Iran is a problem for the world? Do you think they will nuke Israel or the US? Are they maniacal warmongers? Please cite evidence.

The most dangerous warmongers in today's world are Israel and the US. They have the track record to prove it.

Time for a quiz: Which country invaded a sovereign nation in 2003 on the false pretext of WMD's? Which country has interefered in Iran's domestic affairs for half a century, dating back to the CIA overthrow of the Mossadegh Government in 1953 and the subsequent installation of a puppet regime? Which country currently has a defence budget of over $600 billion (easily the planet's largest) despite the fact that no immediate military threat to their country exists? Which country was complicit in the assassination and subsequent coverup of its own elected President in order to establish a more militarist foreign policy regime? I'll give you a clue--the nation in question has a chimp in charge who is a laughing stock among more urbane and intelligent world leaders (ie. all of them) and a cringing embarrassment to thinking Americans.

Part two of the quiz goes like this: Which country has illegally occupied Palestinian territory for four decades? Which country swore to succesive Presidents that it would not be the first nation in the region to acquire nuclear weapons yet went ahead and did precisely that? Which country has refused to be a party to nuclear nonproliferation agreements yet demands that Iran abide by such agreements? Which country has an active policy of assassinating resistance leaders from neighbouring countries and pays no regard to the civilian casualties it inflicts on the way? Which country has illegally sealed the borders of Gaza (a nation of 1.5 million people with a median age of 16--hence half the population are children) which the UN believes will result in a humanitarian catastrophe? Which country reponds to acts of terrorism by punishing the civilian populations of its neighbours? Which country introduced terrorism to the region prior to the partitioning of Palestine in 1948? I'll give you a clue--the nation in question has had many leaders who have been former terrorists and they also call themselves God's chosen people.

Mark, very nicely said and accompanied by an impressive array of pertinent facts in support of your arguments, I thought.

David

[Guest David Guyatt]

Thanks for posting the SyHersh interview, Peter. It's frightening. No other word for it.

I remember the bit from former NATO Supreme Commander, General Wesley Clark's book in which he revealed the Administrations plans to sweep through the Middle East once and for all. Regime change all the way. It was known as "drain the swamp plan". After Iraq, it would be Syria, Lebanon, Iran and then onto Libya, Somalia, Sudan -- a total of seven nations in all.

The scope of such warmongering arrogance almost defies belief. The only comparison I can make is Hitler's ambitions that were equally wide sweeping.

Hitler had his dark lord in Himmler and Bush has his Darth Vader in Cheney.

But as Sy Hersh notes Iran will eventually bring in Pakistan and then we're into nuclear territory in a big and dangerous way. It really has all the ingredients for a doomsday scenario.

Bush, Cheney and co should be placed in constraints and shipped off to a medical facility.

David

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Those that would reduce Human nature to a single strand, greed, simply don't understand the wonderful possibilities that are encompassed in the phrase "Human nature" Even in a system that encourages, nay demands selfishness at every turn the Community refuses to retreat, and good deeds far outnumber bad. Now imagine what it would be like in a system that encouraged cooperation and, as far as possible, equality in education, health, housing and work.

I think this thread should be renamed IS BUSH PLANNING AN ATTACK ON IRAN IN MARCH.....2008, We can then up date it every year, but insert any new Presidents name into the header.

I should add that the taproot emotion for those who who believe Humanity to be sunk in self interest isn't Greed, but an even older, more entrenched emotion, Fear, fear of the other, fear of losing out, fear of losing your home, heat, food, ultimately fear of starvation. And of course the Capitalist system strokes that fear, wind him up and watch johnnie run.

Physically we exsist in the year 2007, psychologically, most of us are still cave dwellers,

Edited October 3, 2007 by Stephen Turner
to add yet more preachy stuff.

[Guest David Guyatt]

And while Libya's oil fields are not the largest, it's crude is usually consdiered one of the sweetest around...

I've been trying to find a picture to speak a thousand words, but can't, so the following will have to do for the Afghanistan oil equation:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...=0#a021402bases

February 14, 2002: US Military Bases Line Afghan Pipeline Route

Edit event

The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv notes: “If one looks at the map of the big American bases created [in the Afghan war], one is struck by the fact that they are completely identical to the route of the projected oil pipeline to the Indian Ocean.” Ma’ariv also states, “Osama bin Laden did not comprehend that his actions serve American interests… If I were a believer in conspiracy theory, I would think that bin Laden is an American agent. Not being one I can only wonder at the coincidence.” [Chicago Tribune, 3/18/2002]

David

PS, fancy that...

[Craig Lamson]

Now imagine what it would be like in a system that encouraged cooperation and, as far as possible, equality in education, health, housing and work.

UH...I think that ones been done, and it turned out pretty badly.

But of course it will be better next time, right?

Edited October 3, 2007 by Craig Lamson

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Now imagine what it would be like in a system that encouraged cooperation and, as far as possible, equality in education, health, housing and work.

UH...I think that ones been done, and it turned out pretty badly.

But of course it will be better next time, right?

I must have missed that Craig, of course if you are refering to the old Soviet union, you simply fail to understand the nature of that particular beast. To cut it short the World has never witnessed a true egalitarian State, and the way things are going, probably never will. Now perhaps you would care to engage with my other points, with particular reference to fear, not greed, being Capitalism's master emotion. Rest assured Craig, I do value your imput, you are always so "to the point"

[Craig Lamson]

And while Libya's oil fields are not the largest, it's crude is usually consdiered one of the sweetest around...

I've been trying to find a picture to speak a thousand words, but can't, so the following will have to do for the Afghanistan oil equation:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...=0#a021402bases

February 14, 2002: US Military Bases Line Afghan Pipeline Route

Edit event

The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv notes: “If one looks at the map of the big American bases created [in the Afghan war], one is struck by the fact that they are completely identical to the route of the projected oil pipeline to the Indian Ocean.” Ma’ariv also states, “Osama bin Laden did not comprehend that his actions serve American interests… If I were a believer in conspiracy theory, I would think that bin Laden is an American agent. Not being one I can only wonder at the coincidence.” [Chicago Tribune, 3/18/2002]

David

PS, fancy that...

Protect the oil David...you want to eat, right?

[Guest David Guyatt]

And while Libya's oil fields are not the largest, it's crude is usually consdiered one of the sweetest around...

I've been trying to find a picture to speak a thousand words, but can't, so the following will have to do for the Afghanistan oil equation:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...=0#a021402bases

February 14, 2002: US Military Bases Line Afghan Pipeline Route

Edit event

The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv notes: “If one looks at the map of the big American bases created [in the Afghan war], one is struck by the fact that they are completely identical to the route of the projected oil pipeline to the Indian Ocean.” Ma’ariv also states, “Osama bin Laden did not comprehend that his actions serve American interests… If I were a believer in conspiracy theory, I would think that bin Laden is an American agent. Not being one I can only wonder at the coincidence.” [Chicago Tribune, 3/18/2002]

David

PS, fancy that...

Protect the oil David...you want to eat, right?

Would the word "protect" be a million miles away from the word "control" Craig? "Control" as per my earlier post?

Yes, of course I want to eat. Six billion people want to every day. Does US hegemony guarantee that? Try imagining biting on an irradiated carrot as you consider the question.

This is about money, Bush's notoriously poor joke about the "have's and have more's"...

David

[Craig Lamson]

And while Libya's oil fields are not the largest, it's crude is usually consdiered one of the sweetest around...

I've been trying to find a picture to speak a thousand words, but can't, so the following will have to do for the Afghanistan oil equation:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...=0#a021402bases

February 14, 2002: US Military Bases Line Afghan Pipeline Route

Edit event

The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv notes: “If one looks at the map of the big American bases created [in the Afghan war], one is struck by the fact that they are completely identical to the route of the projected oil pipeline to the Indian Ocean.” Ma’ariv also states, “Osama bin Laden did not comprehend that his actions serve American interests… If I were a believer in conspiracy theory, I would think that bin Laden is an American agent. Not being one I can only wonder at the coincidence.” [Chicago Tribune, 3/18/2002]

David

PS, fancy that...

Protect the oil David...you want to eat, right?

Would the word "protect" be a million miles away from the word "control" Craig? "Control" as per my earlier post?

Yes, of course I want to eat. Six billion people want to every day. Does US hegemony guarantee that? Try imagining biting on an irradiated carrot as you consider the question.

This is about money, Bush's notoriously poor joke about the "have's and have more's"...

David

Control? Just who's oil might the US "control passing through that pipeline? Sorry I just don't agree. Protect maybe, control, not likely.

I'll tell you what the US is attempting to garantee..the free flow of oil. Oil I might add that touches almost every human being on the planet. How many of those six billion people are going to eat if a good part of the worlds oil flow stops? Think about that one while you munch your commercial farm raised food today.

And of course its about money. You expect anything to happen for free?