Muchmore Oddity

[Bill Miller]

Bill,

Agreed. I have always considered the section of the z-film where she appears to be less than completely convincing that she is filming/taking pictures. I always found it *likely*, but there is just too much blur. However, to my eye, her right arm and right hand position, left arm and hand position, turning, torso movement, etc, etc, seem VERY consistent with photography of some type -- either still or motion. Edit -- I just noticed that the "bag" she has slung on her left side has the squared edges common to camera bags (and less common to purses).

Damn... I wanna see that film!

Well, I hope that at least most of us here could rule out that she was looking through field glasses.

[Chris Davidson]

Groden layered over the Discovery DVD.

I'm pretty sure as I stated earlier, those are knife marks throughtout the film.

They are also in a step pattern that run horizontal.

If damage was to the center of the frame, why not just tape it back together IN REGISTRATION and have the damaged gap there?

chris

[Frank Agbat]

Groden layered over the Discovery DVD.

I'm pretty sure as I stated earlier, those are knife marks throughtout the film.

They are also in a step pattern that run horizontal.

If damage was to the center of the frame, why not just tape it back together IN REGISTRATION and have the damaged gap there?

chris

Good catch, and quite interesting. I see the same thing on my NFV/Groden DVD frames. I'm not quite sure what it is... The angled nature of it precludes some interlace artifacting or other NTSC-based stuff. It either has to be on the film, or introduced (somehow) in the telecine process.

[Robin Unger]

Stabilized, isolated Babushka Lady from the MM film (16mm print)...

This GIF *intentionally* pauses on the first frame (and again at the last before looping).

Edit:

There are some sync possibilities from this clip, too, John...

Very Nice Frank.

That GIF clearly shows the Babushka lady panning the camera to her left as she follows the limo.

[Chris Davidson]

Groden layered over the Discovery DVD.

I'm pretty sure as I stated earlier, those are knife marks throughtout the film.

They are also in a step pattern that run horizontal.

If damage was to the center of the frame, why not just tape it back together IN REGISTRATION and have the damaged gap there?

chris

Good catch, and quite interesting. I see the same thing on my NFV/Groden DVD frames. I'm not quite sure what it is... The angled nature of it precludes some interlace artifacting or other NTSC-based stuff. It either has to be on the film, or introduced (somehow) in the telecine process.

Frank, my mistake with regards to the aspect ratio. I made an assumption that Groden's would have been enlarged by the same height/width.

I am wrong. The width is a 3.5 % increase. The heighth is a 5% increase.

Here's a gif of the same frames as previously posted, darkened somewhat and at the correct size I believe.

Groden's rotated at 1.5 degrees CW to fit.

chris

Edited January 8, 2007 by Chris Davidson

[Chris Davidson]

Frame sequence.

Runs upper right to lower left.

Following that line through the Newman's.

chris

[Chris Davidson]

I've been told the Muchmore version on the Discovery DVD is a copy from the original.

How can that be when it's been cropped while comparing it to Groden's version.

Why would you want to crop a copy of an original?

Here is a gif to show some of the cropping that has occured.

I'm sure you can figure out what area is being affected due to cropping.

And those pesky lines again, along with a discolored wall bottom in Groden's.

chris

[Frank Agbat]

I've been told the Muchmore version on the Discovery DVD is a copy from the original.

How can that be when it's been cropped while comparing it to Groden's version.

Why would you want to crop a copy of an original?

Here is a gif to show some of the cropping that has occured.

I'm sure you can figure out what area is being affected due to cropping.

And those pesky lines again, along with a discolored wall bottom in Groden's.

chris

Chris,

There is unquestionably cropping on the Discovery version. What I do not know is where/when the cropping took place. That is to say, I don't know if that is how it was originally copied to 16mm, cropped while telecine took place, or cropped for the Discovery channel DVD... I, too, was a bit disappointed when I noticed this.

[David G. Healy]

I've been told the Muchmore version on the Discovery DVD is a copy from the original.

How can that be when it's been cropped while comparing it to Groden's version.

Why would you want to crop a copy of an original?

Here is a gif to show some of the cropping that has occured.

I'm sure you can figure out what area is being affected due to cropping.

And those pesky lines again, along with a discolored wall bottom in Groden's.

chris

Chris,

There is unquestionably cropping on the Discovery version. What I do not know is where/when the cropping took place. That is to say, I don't know if that is how it was originally copied to 16mm, cropped while telecine took place, or cropped for the Discovery channel DVD... I, too, was a bit disappointed when I noticed this.

welcome to the USNET board world of DP-JFK assassination film. I suspect Groden could clear this query up in a New York second, but he won't.

We do have Bill Miller and Len Colby though...could be worse, but I can't imagine that!

[John Dolva]

while looking for other splice samples, there's z207. Relevant here perhaps is that in this image while the lower left version (costellas distortion corrected here reverse 'corrected') shows the splice in the sprocket area, it has been removed from the main frame. Curiously the limo shows its stretch capabilities in the next frame where the visors stay in the same location while the front of the limo moves forward.

EDIT: What is numbered as 207 is probably a composite of 207 and the real 208 ie all following frames are misnumbeed and we have not seen the true 208 or 207. Thsi would be interesting as the early viewers of the film spoke of seeing graphically the first shot. Also the frames in this region have a damaged sprocket area as one would expecy from that section being forwarded and reversed in the projector until the stress broke the film. The repair then obliterated the first shot. Supposedly copies were made before the film broke. Why aren't we seeing that?

Edited January 9, 2007 by John Dolva