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Apollo-gist / Virtual Apollo


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So I forgot which branch of the military you are suppossedly in .... What's the big deal ? ... It's all the same mentality .... Does this mean I am posting "little white lies" also ? .... Like in making "many mistakes " ? ... No .. It only means that what you allegedy do for a living has so little importance to me that I didn't bother to remember which branch of the military / industrial complex you have to answer to .

Matthew ... I considered the possibility of Hawkins being the dishonest one concerning the Apollo photos in his book , but then what would he have to gain by doing that ? ... He would lose all credibility as a conspiracy researcher .... If it had only been a few of the photos gone missing or changed , then I would have assumed it was his doing ... but ALL of the photos going missing or altered tells quite a revealing and different story .... Like nasa is still covering their lying tracks .

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With ALL the photos going missing, it seems more likely that they never existed in the first place. Especially since the internet archive does not have them either. What would he have to gain? Just what I said in the last post. He wanted to sell a book. As for credibility, it remains to be seen if he has any.

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Matthew .... The photos in Hawkins book are obviously official nasa Apollo photos and he even provided the ID numbers to most of them .... It's possible that he altered the images himself , this is true ... but after what I read in his book , it is pretty obvious to me that it was nasa who has switched numbers , altered images , and has now pulled most of these photos off of their web sites ....

He even went to the newspapers with the proof that Apollo was faked , but the people who worked in the offices of the various newspapers informed Hawkins that they couldn't print his Apollo hoax information even if they wanted to ... He was apparently told that all of the news that is printed in the papers and that goes out over the air on radio and TV , is government controlled ... So there was absolutley no way they would be allowed to print his Apollo hoax evidence ... He was also told that for National security reasons , they could never print his findings .... and that his only recourse was to write a book , which is one of the few things left that isn't government controlled .

Edited by Duane Daman
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Sorry, but I don't buy it. If, and that's a big if, he actually went to the papers, they most likely didn't print it because they just didn't find it that interesting. Perhaps they didn't buy it either. There have been plenty of tv shows and movies on the subject though, as well as newspaper articles, that the idea that they couldn't print it because of national security sounds like a lot of bull. Even if the papers were government controlled, why not go to one in a different country? Why not take his story to one of the many, many independent papers (many cities have them) or a college paper? I've seen moon hoax articles in the independent paper in Columbus, OH and in the college paper when I was still in college. Why not post it all for free on a website? I wouldn't be surprised if he made it up for his book to make it look more important.

If it really was NASA altering those images, then again, why wasn't it noticed in the 30+ years before he looked at it? Every single image has been available from the very beginning to anyone who was interested. The internet has only made them more available. So why didn't somebody notice something as obvious as a papercup, or wildlife, or writing in the dust? Most likely because it was never there.

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Duane

Without actually seeing the photos, it's impossible to be 100% certain, but surely you can admit that the most likely explanation is that someone photoshopped the papercups, animals etc IN to copies of the originals, rather than NASA photoshopping them out? Occam's razor? As stated, ALL the Apollo photos have been available to the public since well before the internet took off.

For Hawkins to be correct, the following must apply:-

1. Not a single scientist, photographer, astronomer, or anyone else who ordered these photos prior to the internet has seen or mentioned these anomalies.

2. Whistle-blowers somehow managed to leave these clues on set, while the "men in black" overseeing operations casually glanced the other way.

3. The darkroom technicians who developed the photos didn't notice the anomalies.

4. The corrupt NASA officials who must surely have pored over all the fake photos somehow managed to miss these anomalies that only Mr Hawkins has spotted.

5. Corrupt NASA officials have since heard about Hawkins findings, and have ordered them to be deleted, or have the anomalies photoshopped out - even though they know there must be many copies of the "fake originals" already in the public domain.

Conversely, for Hawkins to be incorrect, either of the following two must apply.

Either,

1. Hawkins photoshopped copies of the originals (or knew that they had been photoshopped by someone else)

or,

2. Someone gave the photoshopped versions to Hawkins (or he found them on a HB disinfo site), and he used them unaware of their provenance.

Objectively - which is most likely to be the truth?

As to motive - here's a hint. You bought his book didn't you? He isn't bothered about his credibilty, he knows that as long as people want to believe in a conspiracy, people will buy it. (EDIT - this is of course only my opinion based on what I saw on his website, and what you've told me about his book. He may well have other motives).

(Which gives me a business idea... I may "jump ship" and write my own book about how I was convinced Apollo was real, but came to realise the awful "reality" about Apollo, and decided for the sake of truth and freedom to blow the lid off NASA. OK I'd have zero credibilty, but I'd make a quick shilling or three. Of course, I'd have to balance the profits against the loss of income I get from being a paid NASA dis-info agent... Fancy teaming up? With your dedication and conviction and my canny knack for finding photos, we'd write a conspiracy book to corner the market!) :)

Edited by Dave Greer
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.. It only means that what you allegedy do for a living has so little importance to me that I didn't bother to remember which branch of the military / industrial complex you have to answer to .

That's the second time in this thread you have used the word 'allegedly' with regard to my profession.

I tell you what - contact Jack White, and have Jack contact the physics guy he knows who works for the Australian Defence Organisation (Costella?). He'll have access to the Defence Restricted Network. On the DRN is an electronic address book with everyone in the ADF / ADO.

Have him look up my name. Get him to send me an e-mail or give me a call on the telephone at work (after the 15th; I'm on leave right now). He can then relay the results back to Jack who can pass them back to you.

Then you can drop the 'allegedly', sport.

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Evan .... My apologies for using the word allegedy in referring to your military profession ... I believe you ... and I wouldn't appreciate anyone accusing me of not being a song writer , cuz I write some mighty fine songs !

I think we have all gone off on unnecessary tangents on these threads, which are completely unproductive .... I came here to discuss the various aspects of the Apollo hoax , yet constantly find myself forced to post about things which are not relevant to that topic ...

It's never been a level playing field concerning this subject and it never will be on forums such as this one ... It would seem that even Steve Phillips may have been disgusted enough to leave ... I hope not because the guy has much to offer ... It's just not easy to keep posting conspiracy evidence here when obnoxious , condescending know it all's continue to pound away at you for daring to even post here ... I don't care much for moderators , as most of them don't know how to be objective or fair when they personally disagree with someone's opinion , but in this situation, this forum could use a bit of moderation to stop the off topic subjects and constant insults .

Dave ... Was that an offer to write an Apollo moon hoax conspiracy book together ? ... How sweet ! ... I knew one day you would see it my way .... :rolleyes:

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Evan .... My apologies for using the word allegedy in referring to your military profession ... I believe you ... and I wouldn't appreciate anyone accusing me of not being a song writer , cuz I write some mighty fine songs !

Duane - accepted. Thank you.

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It's never been a level playing field concerning this subject and it never will be on forums such as this one ... It would seem that even Steve Phillips may have been disgusted enough to leave ... I hope not because the guy has much to offer ... It's just not easy to keep posting conspiracy evidence here when obnoxious , condescending know it all's continue to pound away at you for daring to even post here ... I don't care much for moderators , as most of them don't know how to be objective or fair when they personally disagree with someone's opinion , but in this situation, this forum could use a bit of moderation to stop the off topic subjects and constant insults .

Or maybe Steven doesn't post as regularly because he has no sensible answer to any counter-arguments put to him? Or maybe he's on holiday? Or maybe his computer is broken? I hope he does start opsting on Apollo again, because as you rightly claim, the playing field isn't level - by that I mean there are always more people on these forums who believe Apollo happened than didn't. (I'm not claiming that makes us right, but I can empathise with you feeling the way you do).

On the subject of an obnoxious and condescending attitude, whenever I come over as being condescending, it's when we are discussing something I see as blindingly obvious, and no matter how concisely I put over my own point of view, it's just laughed off as being NASA dis-information parrotted from Clavius. And I know for a fact you've behaved in a similar fashion yourself when you've been convinced that you are right about something, even going as far as accusing others who didn't agree with you as being liars. For example, the "smudge" on the visor discussion over at UM. Also the heated and overly-long discussion we had about the "alien bootprint" photo.

Not trying to re-open old wounds, just reminding you that the knife cuts both ways buddy! I know I sound condescending at times, heck I've edited enough posts before submitting to know that without being told. There is a reason of course - I know I'm right B)

Edited by Dave Greer
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