George Bush of the CIA

[James Richards]

A little bit of background.

James

[Pat Speer]

So Devine was meeting with Clemard Charles in April,1963.And Charles brought DeMohrenschildt to the meeting.

Robin, where did you find this and how do we know this meeting took place in April, 1963? Do we know for fact that WUBRINY/1 was Devine? I admit this is reasonable speculation and possibly important, particularly with Bush's admitted relationship with DeMohrenschildt. But I'm curious as to how much of this is concrete and how much speculation. If it can be shown that this is in fact Devine and that he did indeed meet with Charles and DeMohrenschildt, at the same time they were plotting a coup, then this is quite a story.

[Robin Finn]

A link to the documents is now on the "What's New" section at the www.maryferell.org page.For the identification of Devine as WUBRINY-1,we will have to ask James.After I posted the excerpt from the document,I realized that the 1975 memo claims Devine was cleared for use in June,1963,and the documents of the meeting between Charles,DeMohrenschildt,and WUBRINY-1 are from April,1963.

[James Richards]

Robin and Pat,

The source at the moment for WUBRINY-1 being Devine is me and I'll stand by it.

I'm sure those who have access to Mary Ferrell's database or those who visit NARA will find documents to confirm it.

Cheers,

James

[Greg Parker]

Robin and Pat,

The source at the moment for WUBRINY-1 being Devine is me and I'll stand by it.

I'm sure those who have access to Mary Ferrell's database or those who visit NARA will find documents to confirm it.

Cheers,

James

James, I think it's pretty obviously Devine. Not even John McAdams has disputed that.

[Robert Howard]

Robin and Pat,

The source at the moment for WUBRINY-1 being Devine is me and I'll stand by it.

I'm sure those who have access to Mary Ferrell's database or those who visit NARA will find documents to confirm it.

Cheers,

James

James, I think it's pretty obviously Devine. Not even John McAdams has disputed that.

Along [peripherally] similar lines I would ask Forum members if they are familiar with any document that references some "stationery" found at the Dallas Sheraton Hotel in, or about September 1964? The month is significant in that, the Warren Commission Report was released at the beginning of that month, so that information would have obviously been after the fact.

The story was that a guest of the hotel found some stationery that contained the initials G.D.M. and gave it to the management of the hotel. This information not surprisingly, made its way to the supporting documents [FBI, Justice Dept. Secret Service et cetera] used by the Warren Commission which are also located in one of the extensive microfiche files concerning the JFK Assassination.

Example NARA Documents declassified in 1977

FBI Series II

Lee Harvey Oswald

[Paul Brancato]

On 1/11/2007 at 3:14 PM, Pat Speer said:

Robin, where did you find this and how do we know this meeting took place in April, 1963? Do we know for fact that WUBRINY/1 was Devine? I admit this is reasonable speculation and possibly important, particularly with Bush's admitted relationship with DeMohrenschildt. But I'm curious as to how much of this is concrete and how much speculation. If it can be shown that this is in fact Devine and that he did indeed meet with Charles and DeMohrenschildt, at the same time they were plotting a coup, then this is quite a story.

Well, this thread is from long ago, but since then we have much more info. Joan Mullen published her book Our Man in Haiti in which she goes into some detail about the meetings George and Clemard had in NYC and DC with reps from a CIA proprietary called WUSALINE, or WUBRINY, which, pardon my not so strange interpolation, is probably Zapata Offshore. The agents had cryptonyms WUBRINY 1 and 2. They were certainly Thomas J Devine, George Bush’s partner on Zapata, and probably JohnTrain of Train, Cabot and associates (this comes to me orally from Bill Simpich). Overseeing this meeting was Dorothe Matlack, ACSI (Assistant Chief of Staff, Army Intelligence. Also present was another Army Intelligence Colonel Sam Kail. Quite a group. What were they meeting about? Sisal plantations in Haiti? Or deposing Duvalier and replacing him with Haitian banker Clemard Charles? Ok, maybe. But with George DeMohrenschildt? He wrote to George Bush when the latter was CIA director and George was a few months from Suicide, or Murder, or testimony to the HSCA. He wrote that he was stressed out, harassed for unnamed reasons, and asked for Bush’s help!!!!

I’ll cut to the chase.

1 - Michele Metta, the Italian author and researcher who has access to CMC membership files, says that (by my calculations) +-$5 million was deposited in a fascist p-2 connected Italian Bank by someone in Haiti in1963. Metta suspects this is money earmarked for the JFK assassination. I’m interpolating, but doubt that Metta would disagree. 

2 - Army Intelligence - new info from John Newman. Alpha 66 was run out of Army, not CIA. Veciana has been lying about this for 40+ years. Point man was Lansdale. 

3 - the curious connection between Jack Crichton’s Dallas based 488th Military Intelligence Detachment and ACSI. Crichton was a retired Army Colonel and very close to George Bush. Very little info on this Unit, but I’m satisfied there is enough to corroborate it’s existence. Connection to ACSI? Retired Army Colonel Frank M Brandstetter, who mentions it in his book Brandy - Portrait of an Intelligence Officer. He was given a green light in 1959 to join the 488th by ACSI, his Intelligence contact for 20 years. I’m just going to ask you to download his book. Teasers - he worked for Seagrams (think Bronfman/Bloomfield), Hilton (think Thomas Crown and General Dynamics), was close friends with Philippe De Vosjoli and Gordon McLendon (one of Ruby’s best friends, according to Ruby himself). Even Licio Gelli makes it into his book.

i just attended a symposium with many important researchers and authors, including James DiEugenio, who graciously invited me, Peter Dale Scott, Bill Simpich, John Newman, and board members Pat Speer and David Josephs. Newman presented his shocking conclusions on Antonio Veciana, showing he hated CIA and that Alpha 66 was US Army not CIA. At the conclusion he said something about the 5 sided building, and he and Scott quickly agreed that 7 Days in May was looking like a more likely model. Of course, this does not absolve CIA, in their minds or mine. We need to dissolve the artificial wall between military and CIA that we imagine. It’s not one or the other, it’s both. Lansdale was both, clearly and provably. 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

52 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Well, this thread is from long ago, but since then we have much more info. Joan Mullen published her book Our Man in Haiti in which she goes into some detail about the meetings George and Clemard had in NYC and DC with reps from a CIA proprietary called WUSALINE, or WUBRINY, which, pardon my not so strange interpolation, is probably Zapata Offshore. The agents had cryptonyms WUBRINY 1 and 2. They were certainly Thomas J Devine, George Bush’s partner on Zapata, and probably JohnTrain of Train, Cabot and associates (this comes to me orally from Bill Simpich). Overseeing this meeting was Dorothe Matlack, ACSI (Assistant Chief of Staff, Army Intelligence. Also present was another Army Intelligence Colonel Sam Kail. Quite a group. What were they meeting about? Sisal plantations in Haiti? Or deposing Duvalier and replacing him with Haitian banker Clemard Charles? Ok, maybe. But with George DeMohrenschildt? He wrote to George Bush when the latter was CIA director and George was a few months from Suicide, or Murder, or testimony to the HSCA. He wrote that he was stressed out, harassed for unnamed reasons, and asked for Bush’s help!!!!

I’ll cut to the chase.

1 - Michele Metta, the Italian author and researcher who has access to CMC membership files, says that (by my calculations) +-$5 million was deposited in a fascist p-2 connected Italian Bank by someone in Haiti in1963. Metta suspects this is money earmarked for the JFK assassination. I’m interpolating, but doubt that Metta would disagree. 

2 - Army Intelligence - new info from John Newman. Alpha 66 was run out of Army, not CIA. Veciana has been lying about this for 40+ years. Point man was Lansdale. 

3 - the curious connection between Jack Crichton’s Dallas based 488th Military Intelligence Detachment and ACSI. Crichton was a retired Army Colonel and very close to George Bush. Very little info on this Unit, but I’m satisfied there is enough to corroborate it’s existence. Connection to ACSI? Retired Army Colonel Frank M Brandstetter, who mentions it in his book Brandy - Portrait of an Intelligence Officer. He was given a green light in 1959 to join the 488th by ACSI, his Intelligence contact for 20 years. I’m just going to ask you to download his book. Teasers - he worked for Seagrams (think Bronfman/Bloomfield), Hilton (think Thomas Crown and General Dynamics), was close friends with Philippe De Vosjoli and Gordon McLendon (one of Ruby’s best friends, according to Ruby himself). Even Licio Gelli makes it into his book.

i just attended a symposium with many important researchers and authors, including James DiEugenio, who graciously invited me, Peter Dale Scott, Bill Simpich, John Newman, and board members Pat Speer and David Josephs. Newman presented his shocking conclusions on Antonio Veciana, showing he hated CIA and that Alpha 66 was US Army not CIA. At the conclusion he said something about the 5 sided building, and he and Scott quickly agreed that 7 Days in May was looking like a more likely model. Of course, this does not absolve CIA, in their minds or mine. We need to dissolve the artificial wall between military and CIA that we imagine. It’s not one or the other, it’s both. Lansdale was both, clearly and provably. 

 

So was MKNAOMI.

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

On page 161 Senseney refers to "a colonel in the Air Force and a colonel in the Army" picking up dart weapons for a "Staff Support Group" which Senseney later found out was a CIA front.

[Paul Brancato]

15 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

So was MKNAOMI.

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

On page 161 Senseney refers to "a colonel in the Air Force and a colonel in the Army" picking up dart weapons for a "Staff Support Group" which Senseney later found out was a CIA front.

Interesting. I’m not sure how Senseney could be so sure. Fort Detrick was Army. 

[Cliff Varnell]

8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Interesting. I’m not sure how Senseney could be so sure. Fort Detrick was Army. 

Here's the relevant testimony.

<quote on>

Q: Were you aware that the CIA was working with Fort Detrick?

Mr. Senseney: After a while. Not when I first went with the SO Division, but it became apparent later.

Q: Did the CIA people use a false name to describe themselves?

Mr. Senseney: Staff Support Group.

Q: And that was a false name; was it not?

Mr.Senseney: And it was also--you asked another question earlier this morning, at least someone did, P600 was their funding citation.

Q: P600 was their funding citation? And the Staff Support Group was a false name? And who was it designed to mislead?

Mr. Senseney: I don't know.

Q: Is that a name that sounds like an Army group?

Mr. Senseney: Well, you would have thought so to begin, because the first two that I was aware of were a colonel in the Air Force and a colonel in the Army. It looked like an Army support group of some sort at the start.

 Q: So both the name and the personnel made it look as if it was an Army group. even though, in fact, it was CIA personnel?

Mr. Senseney: That's right.

<quote off>

[Paul Brancato]

Yes I read it - hence my comment. Looks like Army to me. 

[Cliff Varnell]

An Army colonel and an Air Force colonel...Lucien Conein and Edward Lansdale?

[Paul Brancato]

When did Lansdale become a General? I’ve never found your suggestion of high tech weaponry being used at Dealey Plaza to be out of bounds. 

[Jim Hargrove]

On 12/18/2018 at 4:49 PM, Paul Brancato said:

2 - Army Intelligence - new info from John Newman. Alpha 66 was run out of Army, not CIA. Veciana has been lying about this for 40+ years. Point man was Lansdale.

 

On 12/18/2018 at 4:49 PM, Paul Brancato said:

Newman presented his shocking conclusions on Antonio Veciana, showing he hated CIA and that Alpha 66 was US Army not CIA. At the conclusion he said something about the 5 sided building, and he and Scott quickly agreed that 7 Days in May was looking like a more likely model.

Paul,

This is big news. Thank you!  Can you tell us any more about Dr. Newman's evidence for this?

[W. Niederhut]

23 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

When did Lansdale become a General? I’ve never found your suggestion of high tech weaponry being used at Dealey Plaza to be out of bounds. 

Lansdale became a Brigadier General in April of 1960.

The increasingly blurred boundary lines between the military and CIA that you describe remind me of Prouty's writings about the "Secret Team."

Edited December 20, 2018 by W. Niederhut