John Dolva Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 What a life. Thank you for sharing that Tom. Is that before or after 'the problem'? They would have had a story well worth hearing first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Are you saying you knew----Apollo 13?If one observes closely, a resemblance between the boat driver and the person posting may be found. Just as the individual to the far right closely resembles Apollo XIII Commander James (Jim) Lovell. Who knows? It may be fact and it may not be! However, if one takes a look at the the upcoming March issue of VERITAS (Journal of Army Special Operations History) they just may see the same photo, as the JFK Center recently contacted me in regards to any/all photo-history I may have of the Special Forces Underwater Operations Course. So much for that tale! Perhaps getting back to something germane would be proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) Yep, no worries. Heres the back panels of the shirt cut out. The right side of the WC one is partly obscured by the shirt arm. On the right is an approximation of a completely fresh flat panel. Edited January 17, 2007 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gray Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) John: which of the marks on JFK's back is the bullet hole? Ashton Edited January 17, 2007 by Ashton Gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Yep, no worries.Heres the back panels of the shirt cut out. The right side of the WC one is partly obscured by the shirt arm. On the right is an approximation of a completely fresh flat panel. John; Did you also take into consideration the usage of the front photo's in order to determine centerline of the shirt and how the folded collar may be utilized in determination of centerline of the back? http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/8/8...vid_CE394-1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) Good question, Ashton. I don't know. I'm curious to see what the outome of this study will be. If you can see any mistakes along the way or have anything to suggest that I've ignored or missed, please don't hesitate to say. The more correct the fundamentals are, the more correct the outcome is likely to be. EDIT:: good idea Tom. I'll have a look. EDIT2:: my apologies:: I forgot to mention that the back panel cutouts edges are following the same stripes from the top shoulder where the arms join the shirt and top shoulder panel and down. Also the HSCA panel has been perspective corrected to have the same horizontal dimension top and bottom. This doesn't necessarily correct the vertical dimensions in that panel as it's software dependent. More on that later. For now one can see that the WC shirt is closest to how it came off Kennedy. EDIT3:: a test to check how the software deals with the vertical dimensions shows it does so in a regular fashon and for this illustrative purpose is good. For the actual check on bullet hole it's the area around it that will be of interest. The actual length of the shirt is greater in the HSCA than it appears as the photo is taken obliquely. It should be possible to calculate how much based on the changes in the horizontal. More later. Edited January 17, 2007 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 The HSCA shirtback without perspective correction, as is. One can see that the photo is taken obliquely. This means it can (without proper correction) only be used in local areas in narrow strips in the horizontal. The WC photo does not have this error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 (edited) Thank you Tom for the idea. The front shrt photo shows portions of the back. Not much but enough to see where the midline of the collar is. In this image these front shirt areas are cut out and the blood/pinstripe pattern is matched to the back shirt photo. Then one can see where the midline of the back shirt photo is. As can be seen the back shirt collar is not an exact indicator of where the collar sat on the back of the neck Edited January 19, 2007 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 the WC shirt is more crumpled, but on the other hand its dimensions in vertical and horizontal are more accurate throughout, and it is closer to how the shirt was when taken off Kennedy. Once one throroughly undrestands how the shirt is crumpled, and here the HSDCA one is useful in localised areas, it will be easier to get a reliable result. Here's a gif showing how the right edge of the collar is more corract in terms of centering the collar on the neck. On the other hand the collar has been (on the WC) stretched in the vertical so one sees more of its lower edge than one does in the HSCA photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 the WC shirt is more crumpled, but on the other hand its dimensions in vertical and horizontal are more accurate throughout, and it is closer to how the shirt was when taken off Kennedy. Once one throroughly undrestands how the shirt is crumpled, and here the HSDCA one is useful in localised areas, it will be easier to get a reliable result.Here's a gif showing how the right edge of the collar is more corract in terms of centering the collar on the neck. On the other hand the collar has been (on the WC) stretched in the vertical so one sees more of its lower edge than one does in the HSCA photo. Can not speak for the others, but I had the faith. Merely wanted to point out that in the case of the evidence, it is always best to secure, if possible, each and every single item known to exist in regards to that specific items if one is to even stand a chance of conducting empirical evaluation of this evidence. Unfortunately, those who claimed to be researchers in the past, took little effort and time to actually evaluate the evidence prior to launching off into the neverland world of multiple assassins and body snatchers. It would appear that for most, rather than admit that they simply did not, or could not understand and resolve the answer, that some "Giant Conspiracy" existed. Which, with the male of the species is of course much better than having to admit that one merely lacks the ability, for whatever reason, to understand the evidence. A key element in understanding how the evidence was manipulated is located within the knowledge of those persons for whom few have heard of, such as Henry Heiberger, etc; And, unfortunately, those who now honestly are searching for some answers are stuck with the "hearsay" statements of those few of us who may have understood the importance of these person's contributions and thereafter sought them out for their input. Understanding the manipulation of the clothing worn by JFK and it's manipulation is as critical to an understanding of the events as is all of the other evidence. It clearly demonstrates the pattern which was utililized by Specter & Company, which of course includes JEH, and yes, the late and supposedly great Gerald Ford, in their highly successful ploy to misdirect and confuse. Had JEH/Specter & Company truly wanted the facts (which they already knew anyway) revealed, then we would have X-rays and flame spectrograpic analysis of the coat and shirt worn by JBC. And, being an item of little importance at the time, I completely neglected to ask Heiberger or any of the other Agents from the FBI Lab if they conducted any examinations of JBC's clothing prior to it having gone to the laundry. Kind of like having the opportunity and completely "blowing" it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 the WC shirt is more crumpled, but on the other hand its dimensions in vertical and horizontal are more accurate throughout, and it is closer to how the shirt was when taken off Kennedy. Once one throroughly undrestands how the shirt is crumpled, and here the HSDCA one is useful in localised areas, it will be easier to get a reliable result.Here's a gif showing how the right edge of the collar is more corract in terms of centering the collar on the neck. On the other hand the collar has been (on the WC) stretched in the vertical so one sees more of its lower edge than one does in the HSCA photo. Can not speak for the others, but I had the faith. Merely wanted to point out that in the case of the evidence, it is always best to secure, if possible, each and every single item known to exist in regards to that specific items if one is to even stand a chance of conducting empirical evaluation of this evidence. Unfortunately, those who claimed to be researchers in the past, took little effort and time to actually evaluate the evidence prior to launching off into the neverland world of multiple assassins and body snatchers. It would appear that for most, rather than admit that they simply did not, or could not understand and resolve the answer, that some "Giant Conspiracy" existed. Which, with the male of the species is of course much better than having to admit that one merely lacks the ability, for whatever reason, to understand the evidence. A key element in understanding how the evidence was manipulated is located within the knowledge of those persons for whom few have heard of, such as Henry Heiberger, etc; And, unfortunately, those who now honestly are searching for some answers are stuck with the "hearsay" statements of those few of us who may have understood the importance of these person's contributions and thereafter sought them out for their input. Understanding the manipulation of the clothing worn by JFK and it's manipulation is as critical to an understanding of the events as is all of the other evidence. It clearly demonstrates the pattern which was utililized by Specter & Company, which of course includes JEH, and yes, the late and supposedly great Gerald Ford, in their highly successful ploy to misdirect and confuse. Had JEH/Specter & Company truly wanted the facts (which they already knew anyway) revealed, then we would have X-rays and flame spectrograpic analysis of the coat and shirt worn by JBC. And, being an item of little importance at the time, I completely neglected to ask Heiberger or any of the other Agents from the FBI Lab if they conducted any examinations of JBC's clothing prior to it having gone to the laundry. Kind of like having the opportunity and completely "blowing" it! There are certainly many strange problems occuring with postings and postings of attachments. At least from my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 (edited) Perhaps you mean 'blind faith', Tom? Faith itself can be a good thing. ________________ With some understanding of the shirt. The shirt has to go on the body. Initially, when the blood was coagulating and imprinting a pattern on the body, and later, when the autopsy pictures were taken. The left side autopsy photo shows a gaping tracheotomy inciscion. A single scalpel swipe is sufficient. Look at the overall head neck configuration and consider the dead body lying flat on its back, not even a soft mattress to support and mould to body contours. Very unlikely this body has ever lain like this before. The neck slumps back opening the inciscion. A suggestion )image) of how with the gaping wound closed, the neck stretches forward, lengthening the distance between any point on the back and the hairline. (the jaw has also dropped, so I closed that and shifted it out a bit.) Edited January 19, 2007 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Realising that the back autopsy photo is of a three dimensional body. A lathe contour of a photo of Kennedys profile can be made to approximate these contours. The autopsy photo can then be draped over this z buffer (, zmap, depth map, or depth buffer,) and turned to get snapshots head-on of the various planes, and then can be made a collage of the body flattened out like the shirt photos are. This is of course inexact, but the general idea of what the outcome wouldbe like can be seen (image) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 some further considerations, because Kennedys shirt is tailored (thank you for that information) one can reasonably assume it fits Kennedy's particular antomy faithfully. Because he was who he was and because he had a dresser who helped him, and various other attendees one can reasonably assume he was dressed with care. IOW, the tie/collar , and shirt tail and other features were in place. I understand that for some reason his right shoulder was significantly more muscular than the left. Tom, I believe you mentioned something to that effect at another time? _____________________ So, unless I've missed something of importance, I think that might be enough to firstly develop an idea of how the shirt in the area of the hole and the corresponding area on the body should line up, and secondly help to evaluate the results. I'll pause at this time to allow those who wish to develop their own ideas, to critique up to this point, and to develop my own suggestion. Thak you for your attention. The imagery is there now, and the things to take into account are listed on the previous three or so pages.. Hopefully those who see errors will avoid timewaste by pointing them out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gray Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I'll pause at this time to allow those who wish to develop their own ideas, to critique up to this point, and to develop my own suggestion. Thak you for your attention. The imagery is there now, and the things to take into account are listed on the previous three or so pages.. Hopefully those who see errors will avoid timewaste by pointing them out now. Are you going to finish this? Ashton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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