Animated Gif's

[Chris Davidson]

Is there an appropriate/agreed upon speed for creating animated gif's?

Should it be related somehow, to the original film's FPS?

Chris,

I neglected to answer (or theorize, at least) on one of your main questions...

There are some limits to the precision with which animated GIFs can achieve framerates for reasons I mentioned below. However, using Adobe ImageReady to produce an Animated Gif, it allows me to set a "delay" of 0.05 seconds. This will result in a framerate around 20fps if the target computer can render the frames fast enough.

It did not allow me to add another decimal place of precision to get to 18 (or 18.3) frames per second. When I entered 0.055 (~18fps), the software rounded it back to 0.05... This may vary from application to application. I'd have to look back at the actual GIF spec to see how much precision is allowed. Oh -- and if the browser misinterprets this delay field, your framerate is shot anyway. However, when I'm trying for "close to actual speed" I use a delay of 0.05.

Thanks Frank, I use a combination of Photoshop and Image Ready.

Here's the movie showing Babushka and the child moving more alike than Brehm and Babushka.

Zapruder shows Brehm and Babushka moving together

This does not match Zapruder.

chris

[John Dolva]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/b-1.gif

shows the little boy taking three steps. Some of the motion in various clips posted are missed because the frames while spaced correctly, are not rotated correctly. There's roughly a matter of 0.1 degrees between many frames, some 0.2, some clockwise some anti, some more some none. The little boy takes three steps, the second two are small steps without changing leg separation in Z's direction as he enters the sprocket area. He's holding his dads pant leg for stability. The whole thing must have been pretty disorientating with four harleys thundering past. The ground is sloped. He's basicallu braced for stability and shuffles forwrd around his dad. As this is in the direction of Z and partly in Z's sprocket area, Z doesn't appear to show it. Knowing it does happen in M, one can then interpret his general body movement in Z and see this may very well be so.

Edited January 13, 2007 by John Dolva

[Chris Davidson]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/b-1.gif

shows the little boy taking three steps. Some of the motion in various clips posted are missed because the frames while spaced correctly, are not rotated correctly. There's roughly a matter of 0.1 degrees between many frames, some 0.2, some clockwise some anti, some more some none. The little boy takes three steps, the second two are small steps without changing leg separation in Z's direction as he enters the sprocket area. He's holding his dads pant leg for stability. The whole thing must have been pretty disorientating with four harleys thundering past. The ground is sloped. He's basicallu braced for stability and shuffles forwrd around his dad. As this is in the direction of Z and partly in Z's sprocket area, Z doesn't appear to show it. Knowing it does happen in M, one can then interpret his general body movement in Z and see this may very well be so.

John, that is outstanding.

Am I missing something though in regards to Brehm and Babushka moving in sync in Zapruder, but towards each other in your gif(Muchmore), or am I at the wrong moment in time for my comparison.

I just don't see them moving away from each other in Zapruder.

much appreciated

chris

[Jack White]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/b-1.gif

shows the little boy taking three steps. Some of the motion in various clips posted are missed because the frames while spaced correctly, are not rotated correctly. There's roughly a matter of 0.1 degrees between many frames, some 0.2, some clockwise some anti, some more some none. The little boy takes three steps, the second two are small steps without changing leg separation in Z's direction as he enters the sprocket area. He's holding his dads pant leg for stability. The whole thing must have been pretty disorientating with four harleys thundering past. The ground is sloped. He's basicallu braced for stability and shuffles forwrd around his dad. As this is in the direction of Z and partly in Z's sprocket area, Z doesn't appear to show it. Knowing it does happen in M, one can then interpret his general body movement in Z and see this may very well be so.

Outstanding work, John.

Jack

[John Dolva]

This is great, Chris. We may end up with a M-Z sync here or a confirmation of other work.

In this image the trio are roughly in the beginning of appearing and end.

I run out of attachment quota so quick that large images aren't really an option so here the frames are rotated and aligned according to the immediate background lawn, then separated vertically.

The yellow dot is MM's camera position, and the purple line her line of sight to Jackies head.

This seems to correlate with roughly M8 to M22.

First man straightens up or leans and babushka leans with him. Then she settles back and the separation occurs.From MM's perspective the first lot of frames are blurred, but the leaning to the left and then settling back of babushka may be what looks like them moving towards each other. His shoulders turn and from MM's perspective they would look like widening and contributing to the look of moving together.

Place these frames at this orientation (rotation) over each other and see.

[Robin Unger]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yanndee/b-1.gif

shows the little boy taking three steps. Some of the motion in various clips posted are missed because the frames while spaced correctly, are not rotated correctly. There's roughly a matter of 0.1 degrees between many frames, some 0.2, some clockwise some anti, some more some none. The little boy takes three steps, the second two are small steps without changing leg separation in Z's direction as he enters the sprocket area. He's holding his dads pant leg for stability. The whole thing must have been pretty disorientating with four harleys thundering past. The ground is sloped. He's basicallu braced for stability and shuffles forwrd around his dad. As this is in the direction of Z and partly in Z's sprocket area, Z doesn't appear to show it. Knowing it does happen in M, one can then interpret his general body movement in Z and see this may very well be so.

Nice work John.

I can clearly see Joey taking a few steps.

Chris.

Good to see you posting, i always enjoy looking at your work.

Small Film Z278-Z294

Edited January 13, 2007 by Robin Unger

[Frank Agbat]

This is great, Chris. We may end up with a M-Z sync here or a confirmation of other work.

In this image the trio are roughly in the beginning of appearing and end.

I run out of attachment quota so quick that large images aren't really an option so here the frames are rotated and aligned according to the immediate background lawn, then separated vertically.

The yellow dot is MM's camera position, and the purple line her line of sight to Jackies head.

This seems to correlate with roughly M8 to M22.

First man straightens up or leans and babushka leans with him. Then she settles back and the separation occurs.From MM's perspective the first lot of frames are blurred, but the leaning to the left and then settling back of babushka may be what looks like them moving towards each other. His shoulders turn and from MM's perspective they would look like widening and contributing to the look of moving together.

Place these frames at this orientation (rotation) over each other and see.

John,

I have it correlating roughly with M7 to M21 (and my current theory has M7 happening after Z278 by a fractional frame)... I think we're in the ballpark!

[Bill Miller]

When I looked at the claim that little Joe Brehm came around from behind his father in a way that some believed too fast and that he covered too much ground for only taking a step - I realized from doing this overlay that Charles Brehm turned his upper body as he applauded the passing limo. I found that Charles turning his shoulder had opened up more of a view of little Joe just as it to the BL, as well. This seen from Zapruder's angle is lost because of the high elevation and angle to Charles.

Bill

Edited January 13, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Chris Davidson]

When I looked at the claim that little Joe Brehm came around from behind his father in a way that some believed too fast and that he covered too much ground for only taking a step - I realized from doing this overlay that Charles Brehm turned his upper body as he applauded the passing limo. I found that Charles turning his shoulder had opened up more of a view of little Joe just as it to the BL, as well. This seen from Zapruder's angle is lost because of the high elevation and angle to Charles.

Bill

I think we have reached a solid conclusion on this one.

I needed to separate body twist from lateral movement, which I was having difficulty doing.

Here is a quick example of what I initially saw.

It appears that Babushka is moving away from Hill/Moorman.

In reality, she is twisting toward them.

If nothing else, perhaps this will concrete a sync point for John/Frank's great work.

thanks to all,

chris

Edited January 13, 2007 by Chris Davidson

[Bill Miller]

These stabilized clips became the best tool in watching for movement and explaining things that people didn't understand before thinking they saw signs of alteration.

Bill

[David G. Healy]

These stabilized clips became the best tool in watching for movement and explaining things that people didn't understand before thinking they saw signs of alteration.

Bill

?????? "explaing things people didn't understand before thinking..." what the hell are you talking about?

[Bill Miller]

?????? "explaing things people didn't understand before thinking..." what the hell are you talking about?

Well, David ... I can see your being in the dark because you spent so much time trolling that you probably missed the claim about the Zfilm being altered because Little Joe Brehm came around from behind his father too fast.

The alteration howler monkeys missed the fact that Brehm rolled his shoulders as he twisted his upper body and that was why little Joe appeared so suddenly without taking but a small step. Bev Oliver didn't move her feet at all and she also shifted out from behind Brehm because of him twisting like he did.

For more details - check with the varsity squad for they'll remember it for I am sure they haven't lived that one done to this day.

Edited January 14, 2007 by Bill Miller