Spooks, Hoods & The Hidden Elite

[Dave Weaver]

Uwe,

I'm still working on the Files military issue, whether Grady found his ID or another. These things are time consuming. Whatever the case, I don't doubt Files was a soldier in South East Asia at the time he said he was, nor that he was blackops contract agent for the CIA, as well as Nicoletti's boy.

Meanwhile, this is about Chauncey Holt, not about Files. Whatever you may have seen on Holt, it doesn't approach the total package on this DVD, especially evidence wise. There's quite a few members here that have ordered the DVD. Maybe you should await their feedback before you dare to take the step yourself

And if anyone regrets the purchase for some reason, I'll be glad to refund on return of the original dvd within 60 days.

Wim

PS: And thank you for the compliments.

Sure this is about Holt,

but you are the salesman of those products.

I think a sort of "consumer warning" was appropriate at this moment, more so given your announcement

to label any naysayer as dishonest which is why I also mentioned that you don't differ from persons

in other fields like UFO,religion etc. .

Look around in those circles Wim, and you will see that I am right.

The Holt story broke around 1992, that's almost 15 years Wim, the video material also is

pretty old, most, if not all of Holts claims are know for years, so I do look forward to any

new material you have uncovered (me now playing the optimist).

I did leave out my wish, because I have stated that earlier to you already, that you have

your work/products peer-reviewd before you sell them, by persons like, and now don't get a red head, John Simkin,

Allan Eaglesham,Gary Mack,Debra Conway to name some of those I don't see as dishonest,

plus of course anyone you choose who you don't regard as dishonest

(attention Wim, rhetorical trick inside).

That would certainly add to the quality of your (future) products in regard of claims and proof.

I know you do as good as you can, but an outside kick in the ass from time to time , just to kick you off your

high rocker, doesn't mean there is an intent to do harm you, quite to the contrary.

Now, since I am nonetheless also very much interrested in the real ID of the 3 tramps,

this is not only addressed to you but all researchers who followed the tramps story over the years.

Question, and this is serious, why and how are Gedney,Abrams and Doyle definetly shown

to not have been the three tramps photographed in Dealey Plaza after the assassination ?

Yes I know about the work of the sketch artist, yes I know of the different opinions that

include Harrelson,Hunt,Rogers,Montoya and of course Holt.

What I am asking is, why are Gedney,Abrams and Doyle not the 3 tramps ?

Here's a video with Doyle, it's from 1992 I think :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a3Eh0c126Y

And to you Wim, one last question, did you personaly investigate Gedney,Abrams and Doyle

like investigators do and therefore rule them out or do you base your opinion on Louis Gibbons (sp ?)

work and the claims of Chauncey Holt only ?

[Wim Dankbaar]

Now, since I am nonetheless also very much interrested in the real ID of the 3 tramps,

this is not only addressed to you but all researchers who followed the tramps story over the years.

I think that's doubtful, or you would have ordered the dvd

And to you Wim, one last question, did you personaly investigate Gedney,Abrams and Doyle

like investigators do and therefore rule them out or do you base your opinion on Louis Gibbons (sp ?)

work and the claims of Chauncey Holt only ?

Yes I did investigate them. I rule them out based on my own eyes plus the inconsistencies in their stories and those of the arresting officers, the absence of pictures of a younger Doyle, Gedney and Abrams, and the shadows of the photographed tramps which irrefutably indicate a time past 2 PM. Gedney, Doyle and Abrams say they were detained right after the shooting, mentioned no word of being photographed either and they said they were taken from a flatbed train, a coal wagon, not a boxcar. I am not ruling out they were detained that day, but they were just not the tramps in the photographs. I don't need Lois Gibson to determine that.

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=7580200071522387891

Wim

Edited January 23, 2007 by Wim Dankbaar

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Product placement, gets everywhere these days doesn't it.

For sale, One slightly used reputation, £10, ONO.

[Wim Dankbaar]

First satisfied customer

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=428

MAJOR EVENT

I just viewed Spooks, Hoods and the Hidden Elite . This is a major addition to JFK research. One cannot be too grateful to Wim for publishing this. Put this on the top of your list of necessary resources & benchmark references!

Homage to Chauncey Marvin Holt

1921 - 1997:

"Across the fields of yesterday

he sometimes comes to me, a little lad just home from play, the lad I used to be.

He always smiles so wistfully and once he crept within, I think perhaps he

wished to see the Man I might have been." CMH - 1978

[Wim Dankbaar]

And another one from a respected journalist ...........

Dynamite evidence. Very credible. Thanks for sending

[Dave Weaver]

And another one from a respected journalist ...........

Dynamite evidence. Very credible. Thanks for sending

Here's the latest review:

God reviewed the DVD, and just phoned me.

He said he doesn't find the evidence presented conclusive, but also told me, he is still argueing about

it with Chauncey.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Dave Weaver

[Wim Dankbaar]

Seems you missed your calling as a comedian.

Wim

[Dave Weaver]

Seems you missed your calling as a comedian.

Wim

Wim,

to quote you

And another one from a respected journalist ...........

Dynamite evidence. Very credible. Thanks for sending

end of quote

I think you are way ahead of me when it comes to writing funny things !

[Larry Hancock]

William, one of the things that does have to be addressed in discussing the tramps is that there seems to be a clear

"time stamp" on the ones taken into custody in the yard behind the TSBDthem...as has often been discussed. The DPD

tapes contain reference to a railroad employee notifying police about an individual being reported in a gondola car. \ It's pretty clear Bowers saw a tramp inside a gondola/hopper car, not a boxcar and notfied police. It's clear that Bowers stopped that train which was moving past

his tower coming from downtown Dallas to the east and moving across the TSBD overpass...because the DPD

tapes locate the engine of the train.

Now I agree Bowers did not report seeing three tramps, only one, but that would mean four people taken into

custody if three were in a boxcar. It also might mean he simply didn't see the other two down

inside the gondola car. It's also clear from the tapes that other tramps were arrested in the second

switching yard across the bridge and over in the area of the postal annex. If nothing else the references on the tape

to tramps should be part of any discussion of the tramps.

-- Larry

Now, since I am nonetheless also very much interrested in the real ID of the 3 tramps,

this is not only addressed to you but all researchers who followed the tramps story over the years.

I think that's doubtful, or you would have ordered the dvd

And to you Wim, one last question, did you personaly investigate Gedney,Abrams and Doyle

like investigators do and therefore rule them out or do you base your opinion on Louis Gibbons (sp ?)

work and the claims of Chauncey Holt only ?

Yes I did investigate them. I rule them out based on my own eyes plus the inconsistencies in their stories and those of the arresting officers, the absence of pictures of a younger Doyle, Gedney and Abrams, and the shadows of the photographed tramps which irrefutably indicate a time past 2 PM. Gedney, Doyle and Abrams say they were detained right after the shooting, mentioned no word of being photographed either and they said they were taken from a flatbed train, a coal wagon, not a boxcar. I am not ruling out they were detained that day, but they were just not the tramps in the photographs. I don't need Lois Gibson to determine that.

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=7580200071522387891

Wim

[Wim Dankbaar]

Well Uwe, doubtful Thomas, you have a comic way of judging things too.

You might want to check with Joel Skousen, who is probably not as good as you on judging the evidence.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKseal.htm

(7) Joel Skousen, The Good Old Boy Network (26th May, 2006)

This is an amplification of the workings of Group Four--the corrupt law enforcement boys that do the dirty work for the controllers. They constitute what are referred to as the “black” sectors of our own government, and are linked to a larger sector of the organized criminal world. This is one reason why the FBI maintains so many underworld contacts. It’s not just for utilitarian purposes of tracking the underworld. They assist each other in numerous covert activities.

Each of the Federal Services (FBI, CIA, ATF, INS, Secret Service, etc.) have many good and patriotic people working for them. The good guys are the regular, naive, “want to serve my country” types who are assigned the legitimate tasks of government enforcement. Virtually every agency head knows about the black side of his organization. No one is allowed to run these agencies unless he can be trusted to execute the special orders that come down via discrete private channels. Upper level managers who are part of the conspiracy are always watching and judging both the above ground side and the covert “black” side to see who can be trusted to do corrupt work or who has to be removed.

They look for signs of unprincipled behavior in those they invite to do the “dirty tricks” stuff. These guys carouse, they cheat regularly on their wives, and in short, don’t have any scruples about doing any job for money or future advancement. These are carefully cultivated and tested with a variety of semi-legal activities to make sure they don’t have much of a conscience. Once they enter the “black” underground, they enter the world of covert operations--but not just ordinary covert operations (because there are both legitimate and criminal types of operations performed by the same agency). I do not have the space in this book to detail all the evidence for this, but I will tell you this:

1. The CIA runs a worldwide drug distribution net, to finance this black underground series of operations. Kun San, the infamous drug warlord of the Iron triangle testified of this openly--that his major client was the CIA and he could name names. Barry Seal was killed after revealing his involvement in flying cargo planes loaded with drugs for the CIA into the famous Mena Arkansas 10,000 foot rural runway (during Governor Clinton’s term).

2. The FBI regularly assists and covers up for numerous illicit government operations. Occasionally, critical evidence is falsified in their now discredited forensics labs in order to alter the outcomes of certain investigations. The FBI played a major role in the cover-up of the JFK assassination, the Waco attack, the Oklahoma City Bombing, and the Vince Foster murder.

3. CIA and Secret Service agents who were part of the “black” underground side, pulled off the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King, to make them martyrs for a much larger political purpose. The killers may not have known the purpose, but those who gave the orders did.

John F. Kennedy was, in my opinion, the first president to be elected who actually knew that he was put into power by this powerful underground group. He was only a second level person himself however, and quite disposable, as we later found out. JFK was taken out by the very same leaders who put him in. The job was carried out by a select group of dirty tricks boys from the CIA, Secret Service, and FBI. This was the world’s first good look at the workings of the conspiracy. They made a lot of sloppy mistakes, and got away with it for only one reason--they had enough control over the media, members of the Supreme Court, Congress, and a host of others that they could cover up almost anything. Their errors were huge and needed multiple cover-ups. Watching how they did it told me a lot about how extensive their powers are. Before I go into some details, let me backtrack and show how this gang of government hit-men operates in various parts of the federal security forces.

[Wim Dankbaar]

Larry, I am not saying at all that Bowers saw one or more of the tramps that were photographed (which were Holt,

Harrelson and Rogers).

In fact I think that's unlikely. Because the photographed tramps were detained much later and after 2 PM, as can be determined from the shadows, plus the lack of people still on Dealey Plaza.

Watch and read this:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/posada.wmv

**************************

Revenge Threats Thicken Posada Plot

Havana, Jan 24 (Prensa Latina) The notorious terrorists Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch are passing the bill for compensations of services to the US government and intelligence community.

Posada Carriles, a protegee of the US for many years, seems upset after criticism from Cuba, Venezuela and regional organizations forced him to go to trial, even for petty crimes.

There is no mention of his murderous record, including the 1976 mid-flight blast of a Cuban commercial plane with 73 people aboard, the bombing of hotels in Havana or the torture and murder cases in Venezuela, and he dared to plead "not guilty" to emigration violations.

The Nuevo Herald of Miami said his business partner, terrorist Orlando Bosch, wants to get in on the action, with hints of threats to "friends" in the government.

Bosch lashed at the Administration for trying Posada and recalled their important services to the CIA and contribution to US plans against Cuba and other Latin American countries.

Bosch threatened to expose some secrets if their peaceful lives are disturbed, which explains their current status, the US refusals to extradite Posada to Venezuela or try him as an international terrorist.

ln emw jrr mf

PL-17

[Dave Weaver]

Wim,

some simple questions:

Was Lois Gibson aware the Chauncey Holt had cotton stuffed up his nose and

paper inside his mouth (under the upper lip) and that this was done (the later intentionaly)

in order to change his facial appearance ?

I just watched her presentation, and as she says that every facial feature of the old tramp

is a perfect match to face of the older Holt,

and because it is never mentioned in her presentation that he did change his facial appearance by artifical means

, I wonder if she was aware of that at that time.

If she was aware of that, why was that not mentioned, if she wasn't, her conclusions re. Holt have to be taken

with an additional grain of salt, IMO.

sources:

Lois Gibson presentation about the three tramps:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=560...;q=three+tramps

go to 13:55 into the film

Chauncey Marvin Holt:

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v3n2/v3n2holt.pdf

go to page 24 or search the document for cotton.

Yes, I can be serious too.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Dave Weaver

[Wim Dankbaar]

Sorry Uwe, you wasted my respect finally and definitely.

Wim

Edited January 24, 2007 by Wim Dankbaar

[Dave Weaver]

Sorry Uwe, you wasted my respect finally and definitely.

Wim

Oh no, not again.

Now Wim, what's the problem this time ?

Is it my questions or is it the picture ?

The questions are very serious ones, and the picture is a joke,

so much for that and I see no reason to get sidetracked again

from the real issue.

I look forward to reading your answers to those questions about

Lois Gibson and Holt.

Thank you

Edited January 25, 2007 by Dave Weaver

[Wim Dankbaar]

The fact that you're trying to joke about this, and ridicule Chauncey's effort, is simply repulsive to me.

It stems from a desire to discredit, without being serious to take in the whole story.

As I said before, I think you're an underhanded weasel, wasting my time.

I do not know if Chauncey told Lois about the nosebleed and the cotton, nor do I care or think it's important. What matters, is that the pictures show exactly what Chauncey said, namely that he tried to hide behind the others and drew a distorted face.

Just prior to the time we were “detained” in Dallas, I had suffered a nose bleed

and had stuffed my nostrils with cotton. This distorted my features to a certain

extent. My face was further distorted—deliberately—by placing tissue paper un-

der my upper lip. When the photographs were being taken, I attempted to con-

ceal myself behind Harrelson or Montoya, who actually changed places once.

The difference in the demeanors of Harrelson and Montoya was evident to me.

Montoya was noticeably apprehensive and hustled along, while Harrelson

seemed almost to be amused and moved in a leisurely manner. Twice I was

successful in avoiding the cameras. On one occasion I purposely distorted my

face so that I would not be recognizable in the photographs. The last thing in

the world that a criminal—and this includes contract agents for the govern-

ment—wants is to have his photograph taken, much less in compromising

situations. This was drilled into me by Meyer Lanksy during the days of Bugsy

Siegel and Mickey Cohen, two ostentatious, publicity-hungry thugs who were

both criticized derisively by Lansky. Al Capone was another gangster who was

pointed out as an example. On the other hand, Lansky always admired Johnny

Torrio, pointing out that everyone had heard of Big Al but the public was barely

aware of Johnny Torrio. To be successful in crime—according to Lansky—the

criminal must be as invisible as the wallpaper. That is why Lansky drove a

Chevrolet and bought his clothes from the rack.

Here's some feedback from Joel Skousen, obviously of more value:

Yes, it is very credible--especially because he only testifies about things that he would reliably know about. When supposed "insiders" try to claim they know the whole conspiracy plan from A-Z, I discount them. Nobody at the operational level ever knows the big picture. This stuff is great.