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Possible origin of Hidell name.


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I was playing poker online today when I saw players speaking in a foreign language.

I saw these two words in a sentence...and I stopped thinking about poker altogether...hidd el.

First I asked these men what the two words meant. I was told these words mean "Believe In".

Then, I thought to ask them what language this was....I had a gut feeling I would be told Hungarian...

It was Hungarian.

Wasn't one photo of the "Mystery men" at the Embassy in Mexico supposedly identified as a Hungarian man?

Personally, I think the name Hidell was given to remind him to believe in himself and what he was doing.

Then again...what do I know?

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"According to G.L. Cohen, author of Studies in Slang Part 1 (1985), the phrase smart alec(k) arose from the exploits of Alec Hoag. A celebrated pimp, thief, and confidence man operating out of New York City in the 1840's"

con-man + believe in???

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I was playing poker online today when I saw players speaking in a foreign language.

I saw these two words in a sentence...and I stopped thinking about poker altogether...hidd el.

First I asked these men what the two words meant. I was told these words mean "Believe In".

Then, I thought to ask them what language this was....I had a gut feeling I would be told Hungarian...

It was Hungarian.

Wasn't one photo of the "Mystery men" at the Embassy in Mexico supposedly identified as a Hungarian man?

Personally, I think the name Hidell was given to remind him to believe in himself and what he was doing.

Then again...what do I know?

Chuck, I've had some funny languages spoken to me playing poker, as well. FWIW, this is the third good theory I've read on the origin. In fact, it may have jumped straight in to my number one slot. Just one thing... I get the translation as "believe me".

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"Hide"

and

"Fidel"

........the two prime pre-occupations of US counter intelligence operatives in 1963.......

......................or am I just a smart aleck ????

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"Hide"

and

"Fidel"

........the two prime pre-occupations of US counter intelligence operatives in 1963.......

......................or am I just a smart aleck ????

possibly...

I think 'smart alec(k)' and 'believe me' is the simplest explanation around. Fidel was not known of by many at the time Oswald is supposed to have first been using this name.

A notorious NY conman Alec(k) Hoag, which Lee possibly was aware of from his time in NY, combined with the mirrored concept of 'believe me'.

It's as if the very definition of Alec(k) Hidell is: "deception": "a false name used as an ID".

(Also, there is 'Jekyll and Hyde', all fodder for an imaginative boy.)

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"Hide"

and

"Fidel"

........the two prime pre-occupations of US counter intelligence operatives in 1963.......

......................or am I just a smart aleck ????

possibly...

I think 'smart alec(k)' and 'believe me' is the simplest explanation around. Fidel was not known of by many at the time Oswald is supposed to have first been using this name.

A notorious NY conman Alec(k) Hoag, which Lee possibly was aware of from his time in NY, combined with the mirrored concept of 'believe me'.

It's as if the very definition of Alec(k) Hidell is: "deception": "a false name used as an ID".

(Also, there is 'Jekyll and Hyde', all fodder for an imaginative boy.)

How about this one? I came up with this one day while playing around.

Alek James Hidell (anagram)

JK

Dallas

H(oc) E(st) LEE

MI

I thought that was pretty interesting. That doesn't mean I believe that is where the name came from--just thought I'd add it to the mix.

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I was playing poker online today when I saw players speaking in a foreign language.

I saw these two words in a sentence...and I stopped thinking about poker altogether...hidd el.

First I asked these men what the two words meant. I was told these words mean "Believe In".

Then, I thought to ask them what language this was....I had a gut feeling I would be told Hungarian...

It was Hungarian.

Wasn't one photo of the "Mystery men" at the Embassy in Mexico supposedly identified as a Hungarian man?

Personally, I think the name Hidell was given to remind him to believe in himself and what he was doing.

Then again...what do I know?

Any chance of setting up online poker for forum members?

I love a game of poker - but refuse to pay a percentage of the pot to organized crime,

It's against my principles.

One the other hand, depleting the wallets of some of the folk who visit here regularly would be sweet indeed.

I won't name my hit list.

Best if they find out afterwards :blink:

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  • 4 weeks later...

Awhile back there was an article written titled The Investigation that Never Was - By Holland McCombs

See

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/holland.html

......referencing the "Black Lamp," a "gay hangout" [to use a kinder gentler euphemism] in Baton Rouge, this establishment ostensibly had a bartender by the name of Frankie Lynn Hydell, there is also the matter of the McCurley Brothers, who are said to have been "involved" with Oswald's handing out Fair Play for Cuba material. While I only recently became aware of the story, and do not have an opinion as to its validity or lack thereof, to say it is "interesting" is something of an understatement in my opinion.

All I can add one way or another, is that it is indeed a fact that Life Magazine was investigating the Kennedy Assassination before Garrison indicted Shaw, and there was something of a information conduit between the two [Garrison and Life Magazine] until Shaw was indicted, it is my understanding that, at that point Life Magazine abruptly terminated said conduit and from that point on, didn't care much for Garrison after that, but the latter information is only what I was told by a fellow researcher.....

I believe there was someone at the last November in Dallas, conference in Dallas, who was slated to give a presentation on this "hangout," and I would imagine......more details.

Perhaps someone could jump in and enlighten us all.......

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Guest Mark Valenti

Hidell and Associates - Architectural firm in Dallas for fifty years.

It appears that William Hidell is from Pennsylvania.

Edited by Mark Valenti
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James, the only information I have on the McCurley brothers, is their names

James Farlow McCurley

Richard Leche McCurley

........and what is contained in the referenced article by McCombs.......

In case there is a problem accessing the link to the article........

Holland McCombs

The Investigation that Never Was

by John Kelin

Holland McCombs was Life magazine's Dallas Bureau Chief in the 1960s. In that capacity he helped obtain various photographic images from the assassination weekend. He also played a key role in Life's aborted re-investigation of the JFK assassination in 1966. This latter topic was the principal focus of researcher Wallace Milam's presentation to the Lancer conference.

There is much more to this relatively unknown figure than meets the eye. Perhaps not surprisingly, there are Intelligence connections in his background. He was also pals with Clay Shaw, the man prosecuted in connection with the assassination by New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison in the late 60s. Holland McCombs was, in fact, a charter member of Shaw's International Trade Mart.

McCombs left behind an archive of material at the University of Tennessee, Martin --- not because he was an alumnus, but because he was born there in 1901. Milam said that when he first went to the archive he expected to find a handful of documents. Instead, he found an enormous cache of material, much of it relating directly to the JFK assassination.

Holland McCombs became associated with Time-Life after moving to Texas to recover from double pneumonia. It was in his home south of San Antonio that he began writing, with an eye toward the magazine market; before long he was a stringer for Life.

In 1938, McCombs got a break. By this time he had a solid reputation within Life, and perhaps for this reason was selected to squire Henry Luce around Texas when the magazine's founder and publisher came for a visit. McCombs and Luce, Milam said, spent about three weeks touring "what I would refer to as the Tenderloin of Texas. They had been in the cantinas. He had taken [Luce] to meet not only the dignitaries of the state --- and McCombs came to know people in high places, as we will see --- but he took him to see the real state. Introduced him to tequila, and lots of other things. And Luce was totally smitten." Luce promptly created Life's San Antonio bureau, and made McCombs its chief.

At Luce's behest, Milam said, McCombs immediately placed a spy in the offices of the President of Mexico. "Mexico was crucial in the Communist-Nazi struggles," Milam continued, adding that "There's an aspect of McCombs life that I don't even dare tell you about, yet, where he served as a spy for ONI [Office of Naval Intelligence] ... at the outbreak of the second World War."

On the day Kennedy was assassinated, McCombs was heading up Life's Dallas bureau, but was in Austin "helping a reporter do an interview on an assignment ... an article on the sex life of college girls." He immediately flew back to Dallas and began coordinating witness interviews, and the purchase of films, including Abraham Zapruder's.

In 1966, McCombs received the following letter from Life editor Edward Kern, a copy of which Milam located in the McCombs archive. In the photocopy made available to those of us at the Lancer conference, the word "Confidential" is handwritten in the top-left corner of the page.

10/27/66

Dear Holland:

A small group of us here on LIFE are launching what may become a longrange [sic] investigation of the Warren Commission Report and the Kennedy assassination. It may also fizzle. But you are sure to be involved to some degree, and whatever correspondence you receive from us regarding the project will usually be marked confidential --- a precaution that may seem silly but is probably also prudent.

Our first need is to build up a working reference library here in New York, and we need your help on a couple of items. Can you, for instance, obtain for us the Dallas phone book (regular and yellow pages) for this year? Can you get us the 1963 phone books? We could also use a city directory. Finally, the Dallas Street Department has printed a two-by three-foot street diagram of the assassination area, drawn by Robert H West, county surveyor, and dated May 31, 1964. This we would very much like to have here also.

Thanks and regards

Edward Kern

In its November 25, 1966 issue, Life published a cover story called "A Matter of Reasonable Doubt?" The story featured more than two dozen frames from the Zapruder film, some of them nearly full page, and called editorially for a reopening of the investigation into JFK's murder.

But one year later, Life's re-investigation had indeed fizzled. What happened? "In 1967, when the Garrison investigation became public, Holland McCombs' very good friend Clay Shaw came into the crosshairs, as you know, in New Orleans. McCombs turned, Life magazine turned, they ran away from this project." And there matters seem to have rested, except that thousands of pages of documents ultimately arrived at the archive at the University of Tennessee, Martin.

But there are indications that Life's investigation into the assassination --- or at least, Holland McCombs' investigation --- began well before the 1966 probe mentioned in the above letter. Milam read a letter from the McCombs archive dated February 1964 --- just a few months after the assassination --- from McCombs to Edward Kern. "In this letter," Milam said, "he says that ... 'we know you are working on the Hidell alias.' Remember, February '64. The Warren Commission's had two meetings. Life magazine is deep into the Hidell thing already. And he says, 'As you know, we have written to you about this previously.' Can't find that --- the previous [letter]. 'But as we know, Hidell refers to Frankie Hydell ... the bartender at the Black Lamp in Baton Rouge, Louisiana,' which he refers to as, quote, 'A queer hangout,' and that 'Frankie Lynn Hydell is the source of the alias.'"

This same letter, Milam said, also refers to the McCurley Brothers, who also hung out at the Black Lamp. The McCurley Brothers, Milam went on, have also been identified as helping Lee Oswald hand out leaflets in New Orleans. "This is what Life knows in February of '64 --- that Life's investigation has already turned up the idea that there's a Frankie Hydell, who is a bartender at a quote, 'queer joint' in Baton Rouge called the Black Lamp, and that two people who are denizens of the Black Lamp are with Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in that WDSU footage on the street."

That was all Milam had on this --- he said he was unable to find any other references to Frankie Hydell in the McCombs archive. But he noted that at the same time that the Warren Commission was talking about John Rene Heindel as the source of the "Hidell" alias, "Life magazine is already treating it as a known fact, that it's this bartender in Baton Rouge."

In other matters connecting Holland McComb to the case, Milam said he viewed the so-called "Cooper" film at Cooper's home in 1966, and wrote an eight page memo on it, which Milam located in the files at the University of Tennessee. (See Fair Play #11, July-August 1996, for more on the Cooper film.)

The archive contains notes, memos, and other documents relating to Marina Oswald, Sergio Archacha Smith, Roger Craig, Silvia Odio, and Phil Willis, to name just a few. These include notes of a phone conversation with one George Davis, a name which was previously unfamiliar to me. Davis, according to what Milam presented, was "a crane operator behind the Texas School Book Depository [who] saw a heavy set man leave the Book Depository and go to a railroad flatcar," presumably just before or after shots were fired at the motorcade.

One of Milam's concluding topics concerned the apparent theft of Lee Oswald's diary from Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade's office, excerpts of which were published in the Dallas Morning News. Now, Milam said, "we know what happened. Someone --- everyone suspects Bill Alexander --- took the diary from Wade's files, had them copied, passed them on to [Morning News reporter] Hugh Aynesworth --- and now we know for sure, thanks to McCombs' papers, where they went next.

"Aynesworth used them to write ... his article --- then Mrs. Aynesworth sold them to Time-Life. I have the reciepts; the arrangements by which it would be paid to her secretly, and not delivered to her at her office but her home; and we have the Western Union routing slips and everything for getting the diary, quickly, to Life magazine."

As for Life's re-investigation, the magazine was left having made an enormous investment in time and money but with nothing to show for it. And thus was born its November 24, 1967 cover story, "Last Seconds of the Motorcade," which contained 23 previously unpublished photographs taken by amateurs, together with an article by Texas Governor John Connally. "Life magazine dropped its re-invesgitaton," Milam concluded, "and backed off the scene. And took the position which they have taken ever since." Which is to say, solid support for the Warren Commission findings.

* * *

An index to the McCombs archive at the University of Tennessee, Martin, may be found at:

http://www.utm.edu/departments/acadpro/library/manus/mccomb/

END

If the above material is reliable, it certainly adds some information to the proverbial knowledge base......

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James, the only information I have on the McCurley brothers, is their names

James Farlow McCurley

Richard Leche McCurley

........and what is contained in the referenced article by McCombs.......

In case there is a problem accessing the link to the article........

Holland McCombs

The Investigation that Never Was

by John Kelin

Holland McCombs was Life magazine's Dallas Bureau Chief in the 1960s. In that capacity he helped obtain various photographic images from the assassination weekend. He also played a key role in Life's aborted re-investigation of the JFK assassination in 1966. This latter topic was the principal focus of researcher Wallace Milam's presentation to the Lancer conference.

There is much more to this relatively unknown figure than meets the eye. Perhaps not surprisingly, there are Intelligence connections in his background. He was also pals with Clay Shaw, the man prosecuted in connection with the assassination by New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison in the late 60s. Holland McCombs was, in fact, a charter member of Shaw's International Trade Mart.

McCombs left behind an archive of material at the University of Tennessee, Martin --- not because he was an alumnus, but because he was born there in 1901. Milam said that when he first went to the archive he expected to find a handful of documents. Instead, he found an enormous cache of material, much of it relating directly to the JFK assassination.

Holland McCombs became associated with Time-Life after moving to Texas to recover from double pneumonia. It was in his home south of San Antonio that he began writing, with an eye toward the magazine market; before long he was a stringer for Life.

In 1938, McCombs got a break. By this time he had a solid reputation within Life, and perhaps for this reason was selected to squire Henry Luce around Texas when the magazine's founder and publisher came for a visit. McCombs and Luce, Milam said, spent about three weeks touring "what I would refer to as the Tenderloin of Texas. They had been in the cantinas. He had taken [Luce] to meet not only the dignitaries of the state --- and McCombs came to know people in high places, as we will see --- but he took him to see the real state. Introduced him to tequila, and lots of other things. And Luce was totally smitten." Luce promptly created Life's San Antonio bureau, and made McCombs its chief.

At Luce's behest, Milam said, McCombs immediately placed a spy in the offices of the President of Mexico. "Mexico was crucial in the Communist-Nazi struggles," Milam continued, adding that "There's an aspect of McCombs life that I don't even dare tell you about, yet, where he served as a spy for ONI [Office of Naval Intelligence] ... at the outbreak of the second World War."

On the day Kennedy was assassinated, McCombs was heading up Life's Dallas bureau, but was in Austin "helping a reporter do an interview on an assignment ... an article on the sex life of college girls." He immediately flew back to Dallas and began coordinating witness interviews, and the purchase of films, including Abraham Zapruder's.

In 1966, McCombs received the following letter from Life editor Edward Kern, a copy of which Milam located in the McCombs archive. In the photocopy made available to those of us at the Lancer conference, the word "Confidential" is handwritten in the top-left corner of the page.

10/27/66

Dear Holland:

A small group of us here on LIFE are launching what may become a longrange [sic] investigation of the Warren Commission Report and the Kennedy assassination. It may also fizzle. But you are sure to be involved to some degree, and whatever correspondence you receive from us regarding the project will usually be marked confidential --- a precaution that may seem silly but is probably also prudent.

Our first need is to build up a working reference library here in New York, and we need your help on a couple of items. Can you, for instance, obtain for us the Dallas phone book (regular and yellow pages) for this year? Can you get us the 1963 phone books? We could also use a city directory. Finally, the Dallas Street Department has printed a two-by three-foot street diagram of the assassination area, drawn by Robert H West, county surveyor, and dated May 31, 1964. This we would very much like to have here also.

Thanks and regards

Edward Kern

In its November 25, 1966 issue, Life published a cover story called "A Matter of Reasonable Doubt?" The story featured more than two dozen frames from the Zapruder film, some of them nearly full page, and called editorially for a reopening of the investigation into JFK's murder.

But one year later, Life's re-investigation had indeed fizzled. What happened? "In 1967, when the Garrison investigation became public, Holland McCombs' very good friend Clay Shaw came into the crosshairs, as you know, in New Orleans. McCombs turned, Life magazine turned, they ran away from this project." And there matters seem to have rested, except that thousands of pages of documents ultimately arrived at the archive at the University of Tennessee, Martin.

But there are indications that Life's investigation into the assassination --- or at least, Holland McCombs' investigation --- began well before the 1966 probe mentioned in the above letter. Milam read a letter from the McCombs archive dated February 1964 --- just a few months after the assassination --- from McCombs to Edward Kern. "In this letter," Milam said, "he says that ... 'we know you are working on the Hidell alias.' Remember, February '64. The Warren Commission's had two meetings. Life magazine is deep into the Hidell thing already. And he says, 'As you know, we have written to you about this previously.' Can't find that --- the previous [letter]. 'But as we know, Hidell refers to Frankie Hydell ... the bartender at the Black Lamp in Baton Rouge, Louisiana,' which he refers to as, quote, 'A queer hangout,' and that 'Frankie Lynn Hydell is the source of the alias.'"

This same letter, Milam said, also refers to the McCurley Brothers, who also hung out at the Black Lamp. The McCurley Brothers, Milam went on, have also been identified as helping Lee Oswald hand out leaflets in New Orleans. "This is what Life knows in February of '64 --- that Life's investigation has already turned up the idea that there's a Frankie Hydell, who is a bartender at a quote, 'queer joint' in Baton Rouge called the Black Lamp, and that two people who are denizens of the Black Lamp are with Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in that WDSU footage on the street."

That was all Milam had on this --- he said he was unable to find any other references to Frankie Hydell in the McCombs archive. But he noted that at the same time that the Warren Commission was talking about John Rene Heindel as the source of the "Hidell" alias, "Life magazine is already treating it as a known fact, that it's this bartender in Baton Rouge."

In other matters connecting Holland McComb to the case, Milam said he viewed the so-called "Cooper" film at Cooper's home in 1966, and wrote an eight page memo on it, which Milam located in the files at the University of Tennessee. (See Fair Play #11, July-August 1996, for more on the Cooper film.)

The archive contains notes, memos, and other documents relating to Marina Oswald, Sergio Archacha Smith, Roger Craig, Silvia Odio, and Phil Willis, to name just a few. These include notes of a phone conversation with one George Davis, a name which was previously unfamiliar to me. Davis, according to what Milam presented, was "a crane operator behind the Texas School Book Depository [who] saw a heavy set man leave the Book Depository and go to a railroad flatcar," presumably just before or after shots were fired at the motorcade.

One of Milam's concluding topics concerned the apparent theft of Lee Oswald's diary from Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade's office, excerpts of which were published in the Dallas Morning News. Now, Milam said, "we know what happened. Someone --- everyone suspects Bill Alexander --- took the diary from Wade's files, had them copied, passed them on to [Morning News reporter] Hugh Aynesworth --- and now we know for sure, thanks to McCombs' papers, where they went next.

"Aynesworth used them to write ... his article --- then Mrs. Aynesworth sold them to Time-Life. I have the reciepts; the arrangements by which it would be paid to her secretly, and not delivered to her at her office but her home; and we have the Western Union routing slips and everything for getting the diary, quickly, to Life magazine."

As for Life's re-investigation, the magazine was left having made an enormous investment in time and money but with nothing to show for it. And thus was born its November 24, 1967 cover story, "Last Seconds of the Motorcade," which contained 23 previously unpublished photographs taken by amateurs, together with an article by Texas Governor John Connally. "Life magazine dropped its re-invesgitaton," Milam concluded, "and backed off the scene. And took the position which they have taken ever since." Which is to say, solid support for the Warren Commission findings.

* * *

An index to the McCombs archive at the University of Tennessee, Martin, may be found at:

http://www.utm.edu/departments/acadpro/library/manus/mccomb/

END

If the above material is reliable, it certainly adds some information to the proverbial knowledge base......

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