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Bell vs Wiegman


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There's the Hester's in Wiegman's film. (8 frame animation)

Wiegman's in the Bell movie filming that. (Span of 8 frames)

If you think the sync is off, watch Mr.Hester extend his hand from Mrs.Hester in both animations.

Notice Wiegman's movement in the Bell movie, in the span of those 8 frames, as he films the Hester's, and the quality of the clip that's produced.

I'll leave it at that for now.

chris

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Wiegman filming.

chris

Chris...you are making great observations. Keep it up!

Jack

What observation is Chris making, Jack? The two films are not showing the same moments in time. You certainly aren't going to start saying that someone altered the timing of Charles Hester running his hand across his wifes backside - are you?

Bill

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There's the Hester's in Wiegman's film. (8 frame animation)

Wiegman's in the Bell movie filming that. (Span of 8 frames)

If you think the sync is off, watch Mr.Hester extend his hand from Mrs.Hester in both animations.

Notice Wiegman's movement in the Bell movie, in the span of those 8 frames, as he films the Hester's, and the quality of the clip that's produced.

I'll leave it at that for now.

chris

Chris....I looked at the animation several times before noticing

that BEATRICE IS FACING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS AT THE

SAME TIME in the two clips.

Please do a SLOWER animation cropping in tighter on just the

Hesters as he strokes her butt. In Wiegman her head is to the

south; in Bell it seems to be to the north. Am I wrong?

The animation flashes a little too fast to be sure.

Jack

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Chris....I looked at the animation several times before noticing

that BEATRICE IS FACING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS AT THE

SAME TIME in the two clips.

Please do a SLOWER animation cropping in tighter on just the

Hesters as he strokes her butt. In Wiegman her head is to the

south; in Bell it seems to be to the north. Am I wrong?

The animation flashes a little too fast to be sure.

Jack

Jack, Beatrice has her head down and the white area near her rump is Charles Hester's light colored arm and shirt sleeve as it stroked over her hip.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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There's the Hester's in Wiegman's film. (8 frame animation)

Wiegman's in the Bell movie filming that. (Span of 8 frames)

If you think the sync is off, watch Mr.Hester extend his hand from Mrs.Hester in both animations.

Notice Wiegman's movement in the Bell movie, in the span of those 8 frames, as he films the Hester's, and the quality of the clip that's produced.

I'll leave it at that for now.

chris

Chris....I looked at the animation several times before noticing

that BEATRICE IS FACING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS AT THE

SAME TIME in the two clips.

Please do a SLOWER animation cropping in tighter on just the

Hesters as he strokes her butt. In Wiegman her head is to the

south; in Bell it seems to be to the north. Am I wrong?

The animation flashes a little too fast to be sure.

Jack

Here it is a little bigger and slower.

This is 11 frames.

Notice the gentleman in the lower right corner walking. Appears to walk naturally.

Wiegman is doing belly heaves. Too much movement for a steady film.

I've looked at the Wiegman many times, there is only one time he pushes off Mrs Hester and extends his arm, and that point is shown in the

animation.

Before we get to my animation point in the film, Mrs.Hester is sitting upright.

With Mrs Hester not appearing upright in the Bell movie, my time sync is correct. (Thanks Jack)

Or please provide Wiegman footage to the contrary.

One other point to keep in mind:

Wiegman is still continuous filming even after the animation period I have shown.

He films Mr. Hester running to the colonade.

thanks

chris

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Who are the two people behind the Stemmons sign?

Jack

___________________________________

Those two people aren't really people. They were added to the film by the FBI/CIA as part of the overall alteration project to confuse us and obsfuscate the TRUTH.

Just kidding, Jack.

--Thomas

___________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Hi Chris..I think it's the black man carrying the baby. What you see as a white shirt is the baby.

Duncan

Who are the two people behind the Stemmons sign?

Jack

Photo provided by Jack White.

mp3 track of Dave Wiegman interview. He describes his filming activity. Does it match the animation previously provided?

Listen/Watch and compare

chris

Hi Duncan,

I should have posted Wiegman stabilized first and then commented.

In this 11 frame animation, Wiegman is stabilized.

In the first few frames, the camera is up to his face, then he drops it down to his

chest, just as he states in the mp3 file I supplied. (Previous post).

All this time he is filming the Hester's.

Why no camera movement in the Hester footage, if someone moves the camera

from face level down to chest level, as they are continuously filming?

Also, watch Tom Craven in the lower right part of the animation.

He is filming towards the Hester's, and then in 4 frames, he turns his head and is walking forward. That's impossible. Yes 4 frames

Bell, who's film we are watching has a Kodak 8mm movie, don't know the FPS on it, a guess would be about 16 FPS.

Which means Craven does his movement in about one quarter of a second.

Where is Tom Craven's film?

Craven is also shown in pictures filming the Newman's, just like Wiegman.

I will post a comparison from Wiegman's film and a Cancellare photo later.

In Couch's movie, Wiegman is seen running down the knoll, but in the area where

the Hester's appear, someone rises at that point. (Timing)

Have to look at Couch a little closer though, to make sure it's not the Chism's.

got to run

chris

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Hi Chris..I think it's the black man carrying the baby. What you see as a white shirt is the baby.

Duncan

Who are the two people behind the Stemmons sign?

Jack

Photo provided by Jack White.

mp3 track of Dave Wiegman interview. He describes his filming activity. Does it match the animation previously provided?

Listen/Watch and compare

chris

Hi Duncan,

I should have posted Wiegman stabilized first and then commented.

In this 11 frame animation, Wiegman is stabilized.

In the first few frames, the camera is up to his face, then he drops it down to his

chest, just as he states in the mp3 file I supplied. (Previous post).

All this time he is filming the Hester's.

Why no camera movement in the Hester footage, if someone moves the camera

from face level down to chest level, as they are continuously filming?

Also, watch Tom Craven in the lower right part of the animation.

He is filming towards the Hester's, and then in 4 frames, he turns his head and is walking forward. That's impossible. Yes 4 frames

Bell, who's film we are watching has a Kodak 8mm movie, don't know the FPS on it, a guess would be about 16 FPS.

Which means Craven does his movement in about one quarter of a second.

Where is Tom Craven's film?

Craven is also shown in pictures filming the Newman's, just like Wiegman.

I will post a comparison from Wiegman's film and a Cancellare photo later.

In Couch's movie, Wiegman is seen running down the knoll, but in the area where

the Hester's appear, someone rises at that point. (Timing)

Have to look at Couch a little closer though, to make sure it's not the Chism's.

got to run

chris

Duncan & Chris,

You've both made some mistakes here.

First, Duncan, you identified the figure behind the Stemmons sign in the Bell film as a black man carrying a baby. By that you mean John Chism carrying three year old son Ricky. It wasn't John and Ricky, however, but rather NBC's Dave Wiegman still filming the Hesters. John, Ricky and Faye Chism were standing in the grass just below shelter #4 with Ricky in Faye's arms.

Second, Chris, you identified a man in "the lower right part of the animation" of the Bell film as CBS cameraman Tom Craven. Actually, it's most likely White House cameraman Tom Atkins who left camera car #1 at about the same time as Wiegman. Craven remained in their car until sometime after the President's limo went through the triple underpass. You can see Craven's late arrival on the knoll clearly in several photos and in the Martin film. You can also spot him arriving late at the beginning of the Couch film, if you look closely, along with Atkins who continues to move toward the Newmans as Wiegman sprints down the knoll after filming the Hesters. This also means that Craven did not film the Hesters at this point in time.

Ken

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Hi Chris..I think it's the black man carrying the baby. What you see as a white shirt is the baby.

Duncan

Who are the two people behind the Stemmons sign?

Jack

Photo provided by Jack White.

mp3 track of Dave Wiegman interview. He describes his filming activity. Does it match the animation previously provided?

Listen/Watch and compare

chris

Hi Duncan,

I should have posted Wiegman stabilized first and then commented.

In this 11 frame animation, Wiegman is stabilized.

In the first few frames, the camera is up to his face, then he drops it down to his

chest, just as he states in the mp3 file I supplied. (Previous post).

All this time he is filming the Hester's.

Why no camera movement in the Hester footage, if someone moves the camera

from face level down to chest level, as they are continuously filming?

Also, watch Tom Craven in the lower right part of the animation.

He is filming towards the Hester's, and then in 4 frames, he turns his head and is walking forward. That's impossible. Yes 4 frames

Bell, who's film we are watching has a Kodak 8mm movie, don't know the FPS on it, a guess would be about 16 FPS.

Which means Craven does his movement in about one quarter of a second.

Where is Tom Craven's film?

Craven is also shown in pictures filming the Newman's, just like Wiegman.

I will post a comparison from Wiegman's film and a Cancellare photo later.

In Couch's movie, Wiegman is seen running down the knoll, but in the area where

the Hester's appear, someone rises at that point. (Timing)

Have to look at Couch a little closer though, to make sure it's not the Chism's.

got to run

chris

Duncan & Chris,

You've both made some mistakes here.

First, Duncan, you identified the figure behind the Stemmons sign in the Bell film as a black man carrying a baby. By that you mean John Chism carrying three year old son Ricky. It wasn't John and Ricky, however, but rather NBC's Dave Wiegman still filming the Hesters. John, Ricky and Faye Chism were standing in the grass just below shelter #4 with Ricky in Faye's arms.

Second, Chris, you identified a man in "the lower right part of the animation" of the Bell film as CBS cameraman Tom Craven. Actually, it's most likely White House cameraman Tom Atkins who left camera car #1 at about the same time as Wiegman. Craven remained in their car until sometime after the President's limo went through the triple underpass. You can see Craven's late arrival on the knoll clearly in several photos and in the Martin film. You can also spot him arriving late at the beginning of the Couch film, if you look closely, along with Atkins who continues to move toward the Newmans as Wiegman sprints down the knoll after filming the Hesters. This also means that Craven did not film the Hesters at this point in time.

Ken

Ken,

thanks for clearing that up.

I was also wrong about Atkins movement in a quarter second.

It's Bell's panning that gives the impression of Atkins moving so quickly.

I did find both Craven and Atkins footage of the Newman's.

Do you know if there is more to either of their films than this?

I still believe the animations of Wiegman/Hester are the same point in time.

thanks

chris

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