Apollo Panoramas are Complete Fakes

[Duane Daman]

Dave ... The astronauts on the ISS are well below the Van Allen belts ... The space station has never flown through or above the belts ... No manned missions have ever done that except for the alleged Apollo one's ... and this is one of biggest reasons why so many people believe that Apollo was a hoax , aside from the too perfect Apollo photography with their faked looking backdrops .

Van Allen's initial scientific findings are most likely the correct ones ... as in needing several feet of lead shielding to protect the astronauts from radiation poisoning ... He contradicted his findings to placate nasa during the Apollo debacle ... but up until the day he died he was against manned space flight because he knew how dangerous it is to humans....

Even nasa scientists today have admited that the problem of deep space radiation needs to be conquered and new radiation protection has to be devleoped before any manned missions can travel to the moon .

Edited February 21, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Matthew Lewis]

Sorry Duane, you're wrong. Dave even gave you the words to search for to check for yourself. Look up the South Atlantic Anomaly. You will find that the ISS routinely passes through a low hanging part of the Van Allen belts.

I'd also like to see this oft quoted but never produced document where Van Allen says they need several feet of lead. Where might it be found? Are you sure it is real and not another fairy tale dreamed up by the conspiracists?

And you still didn't address the fact that it is not just NASA that deals with the Van Allen Belts. Numerous countries and companies have satellites in and past the belts. They know what the radiation data is and they know it is the same that NASA has always said it is.

[Dave Greer]

Dave ... The astronauts on the ISS are well below the Van Allen belts ... The space station has never flown through or above the belts ... No manned missions have ever done that except for the alleged Apollo one's ... and this is one of biggest reasons why so many people believe that Apollo was a hoax , aside from the too perfect Apollo photography with their faked looking backdrops .

Sorry, but you're wrong, look up the South Atlantic Anomaly (SAA).

SAA Wikipedia Entry

Areospace Corporation article on the SAA

Article on an experiment from 2001 to accurately measure radiation exposure to astronauts on the ISS

Article on the amount of radiation dosage MIR astronauts received performed in 1995

This last link is particularly insightful. MIR astronauts receive HALF of their total radiation exposure while in the SAA (despite the craft only being in the anomaly for a few minutes each orbit). Did MIR have several feet of lead lining? No. Does the ISS have several feet of lead lining? No. (The ISS orbits through the SAA too).

So here we have actual, direct evidence, from two different space agencies, that astronauts on board space stations are exposed to the Van Allen radiation belts. Not just twice, as the Apollo astronauts were, but several times each day, with missions often lasting several months.

Do you still believe that the Apollo astronauts could not pass safely through the belts? If not, then why not?

[Evan Burton]

So, how many times has Duane been incorrect with his "facts"?

[Dave Greer]

So, how many times has Duane been incorrect with his "facts"?

Well, the SAA has been discussed previously in this thread.

I'll give Duane the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn't realise that the SAA actually is part of the Van Allen belts, and that the ISS (and MIR previously) flies through it on each orbit. On the ISS they have introduced polyethylene to improve radiation protection, which isn't working as well as hoped - levels are only a few percent below those on MIR. Source.

[Duane Daman]

The South Atlantic Anomaly is the LOWEST and the SAFEST part of the Van Allen radiation belts , yet it cause these problems !!!

"Evidence of these bands was first made public by James Van Allen, and so they are often referred to as the Van Allen radiation belts. This radiation can cause all sorts of malfunctions in spacecraft electronics. In fact, the Geiger counter used to measure cosmic rays on Explorer 1 stopped functioning because it was overloaded by radiation! "

"A satellite in a typical low Earth orbit remains safely below the proton belt—except at the South Atlantic Anomaly. Spacecraft passing through this region are bombarded by protons with energies exceeding 10 million electron volts at a typical flux of 3000 particles per square centimeter per second. These particles can be a hazard for space systems and astronauts. "

"Perhaps the most serious case was NASA's Modis satellite, which was rendered inoperative in 2001 as it passed through the South Atlantic Anomaly. The failure seemed to be caused by an overvoltage shutdown, probably started when a high-energy ion struck a vulnerable metal-oxide semiconductor field-effect transistor (MOSFET), causing it to fail. It took 16 days to get the satellite back on line. "

"The South Atlantic Anomaly is of great significance to satellites and other spacecraft that orbit at several hundred kilometers altitude and at orbital inclinations between 35° and 60°; these orbits take satellites through the Anomaly periodically, exposing them to several minutes of strong radiation each time. The International Space Station, orbiting with an inclination of 51.6°, REQUIRED EXTRA SHIELDING to deal with this problem. The Hubble Space Telescope does not take observations while passing through the SAA."

Thanks for the links ... You just proved my point as to how dangerous the Van Allen belts really are ... If all of these problems take place in the lowest and safest part of the belt , can you imagine what kind of damage would happen going though the more intense part of the belts ?

Like I said before , the ISS has never flown THROUGH or ABOVE the belts .

Can't you people read ?

[Dave Greer]

The South Atlantic Anomaly is the LOWEST and the SAFEST part of the Van Allen radiation belts , yet it cause these problems !!!

<snip>

Thanks for the links ... You just proved my point as to how dangerous the Van Allen belts really are ... If all of these problems take place in the lowest and safest part of the belt , can you imagine what kind of damage would happen going though the more intense part of the belts ?

Like I said before , the ISS has never flown THROUGH or ABOVE the belts .

Can't you people read ?

This is getting repetitive. NOONE is saying the belts aren't dangerous.

The ISS flies through the SAA, which is PART of the Van Allen belts, several times per day. As did Mir.

Astronauts on board are exposed to radiation every single time this happens... several times per day. On missions lasting several months.

The Apollo astronauts passed through the belts once on the outward bound journey, and once on the return journey.

Please explain why it was physically impossible for Apollo astronauts to have passed through the belts. Personally I think you're grasping at invisible straws.

Good luck.

[Duane Daman]

If men could travel safely through the Van Allen radiation belts then they would have continued with the moon missions .... The future projections were to have lunar bases set up by now and moon trips a common occurance .

The fact that nasa can't manage to send a manned mission through or beyond the belts in over 38 years says it all .... and please don't tell me it's because people lost interest in space travel .... Since when does the military industrial complex care what people are interested in as long as they are calling the all shots and making lots of money ? ... I believe it was over 8 billion dollars in profits per mission with Apollo .

Smart 1 crashed into the lunar surface using new technology .... nasa plans to so the same in the future ... crash land .... Then send robotic missions and then possibly manned one's , IF they can figure out to protect the astronauts from deep space radiation .... nasa has admitted they need to invent NEW shielding for their craft and also for their spacesuits ... What more proof do you need that Apollo was a sham ?

Edited February 22, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Dave Greer]

If men could travel safely through the Van Allen radiation belts then they would have continued with the moon missions .... The future projections were to have lunar bases set up by now and moon trips a common occurance .

The fact that nasa can't manage to send a manned mission through or beyond the belts in over 38 years says it all .... and please don't tell me it's because people lost interest in space travel .... Since when does the military industrial complex care what people are interested in as long as they are calling the all shots and making lots of money ? ... I believe it was over 8 billion dollars in profits per mission with Apollo .

Smart 1 crashed into the lunar surface using new technology .... nasa plans to so the same in the future ... crash land .... Then send robotic missions and then possibly manned one's , IF they can figure out to protect the astronauts from deep space radiation .... nasa has admitted they need to invent NEW shielding for their craft and also for their spacesuits ... What more proof do you need that Apollo was a sham ?

This is getting even more repetitive.

Three Apollo missions were cancelled due to budget restrictions - that's Apollo's 18, 19 and 20.

What is the point in sending people through and beyond the Van Allen belts if they aren't going to GO anywhere? Just to prove to a few disbelievers that it's possible to go through them? You wouldn't believe them if they did anyway! You'd scoff at how ridiculous it was sending people through the belts without sound reasons. Or you'd say it was clearly a fake because "everyone knows you'd be burnt to a crisp". And now that there ARE plans to return to the moon, your arguments against Apollo are starting to look more and more tenuous. This is borne out by the fact that you keep on mentioning the need for new radiation protection - even though you must surely KNOW that the planned return to the moon will involve much longer stays than maximum three day stay of the Apollo J missions (up to six month stays are planned). 3 day stay and exposure (Apollo) - 180 day stay and exposure (Orion) - do the maths. Why is it suspicious that they want to improve levels of radiation protection? Wouldn't you be more suspicious if they WEREN'T bothered about looking at improving radiation protection for the longer missions?

[Duane Daman]

It doesn't matter whether we are talking about quick trips or longer stays .... Deep space radiation is completely detrimental to humans and nasa scientists know this .... That is why they are now trying to figure out what type of shielding to develop, which will keep their astronauts alive while trying to get through the Van Allen belts and onto the moon .

And until this monumental probem is solved and new shielding is developed , no one is ever leaving this planet , except to go where they always gone .... LOW EARTH ORBIT .

[Evan Burton]

It doesn't matter whether we are talking about quick trips or longer stays .... Deep space radiation is completely detrimental to humans and nasa scientists know this ....

So what you are saying is that exposure duration to a radiation source is irrelevant to possible harm that exposure can do?

That it doesn't matter if you spend 10 seconds or 10 years around a nuclear reactor, it will still be detrimental?

That it doesn't matter if you spend 10 seconds or 10 years in full sunlight, it will still be detrimental?

[Duane Daman]

Is that how long it took for the Apollo astronots to get though the belts ? ... 10 seconds ? ... Well then .. that would explain why none of them ever got sick !

No ... What I'm saying is that the Van Allen radiation belts are dangerous no matter how long one is traveling through them and that the radioactive moon and deep space radiation would have made the Apollo astronauts very ill had they really traveled trough them and landed on the moon .

If the Apollo radiation shielding was adequate enough to land men on the moon , then why isn't nasa planning on using it for their future missions ? .... Why go to all of the trouble of developing new shielding if the old stuff worked just fine 38 years ago ?

I mean , if there's a solar flare heading for the moon , the future astronauts could just hang out behind some thin aluminum until the event was over with , right ?

I guess those Apollo astronots sure were lucky .... At least that's what everyone keeps saying ... In fact , no one can quite figure out just how they got so lucky ... No wonder Alan Bean didn't know he had even traveled through the Van Allen belts , or where they are even located ... I guess he must have blinked his eyes in the 10 seconds it took them to go through them .

[Evan Burton]

Is that how long it took for the Apollo astronots to get though the belts ? ... 10 seconds ? ... Well then .. that would explain why none of them ever got sick !

No, I used that as an example with respect to your statement that "...It doesn't matter whether we are talking about quick trips or longer stays...". My question was:

So what you are saying is that exposure duration to a radiation source is irrelevant to possible harm that exposure can do?

No ... What I'm saying is that the Van Allen radiation belts are dangerous no matter how long one is traveling through them and that the radioactive moon and deep space radiation would have made the Apollo astronauts very ill had they really traveled trough them and landed on the moon .

So you are saying that exposure duration to the Van Allen Belts is irrelevant to the harm that the exposure can do?

If the Apollo radiation shielding was adequate enough to land men on the moon , then why isn't nasa planning on using it for their future missions ? .... Why go to all of the trouble of developing new shielding if the old stuff worked just fine 38 years ago ?

Because, as explained ad infinitum, these are longer duration stays on the lunar surface. There are also the aspects of female physiology to consider.

I mean , if there's a solar flare heading for the moon , the future astronauts could just hang out behind some thin aluminum until the event was over with , right ?

They could be warned that one was coming, and they would have to ensure that exposure did not exceed safe limits.

I guess those Apollo astronots sure were lucky...

No, there was planning and an acceptance of a certain amount of risk.

.... At least that's what everyone keeps saying ...

Who is "everyone"?

In fact , no one can quite figure out just how they got so lucky ...

People with expertise in the field do not think so. They still use NASA radiation protocols as a basis for future flights and exposure standards.

No wonder Alan Bean didn't know he had even traveled through the Van Allen belts , or where they are even located ... I guess he must have blinked his eyes in the 10 seconds it took them to go through them .

You keep raising this point. The man is now 75 years of age. When was the interview filmed? 5 years ago? 10 years ago? You are a lot younger - have you never made an error in recollection? What is / was Alan Bean's state of health? Was he suffering from any memory degradation? Would you be able to recall with certainty all the events that happened to you some 30 years in the past?

[Duane Daman]

"Would you be able to recall with certainty all the events that happened to you some 30 years in the past?"

If I had flown and landed on the moon I would .

"Who is "everyone"?"

Everyone who writes about the Apollo missions in wonder and amazement that not one astronot ever got hurt or ever got ill from any of the radiation exposure going through the belts or on the radioactive moon ..

"There are also the aspects of female physiology to consider."

So what are you trying to say ? ... That females need more protection from radiation then males do ? ... That's a new one on me .... and I thought I had heard them all .

"So what you are saying is that exposure duration to a radiation source is irrelevant to possible harm that exposure can do?"

Yes ... It's all bad if the shielding is not adequite .

[Evan Burton]

"Would you be able to recall with certainty all the events that happened to you some 30 years in the past?"

If I had flown and landed on the moon I would .

I don't necessarily agree, but that is a valid point. Can you prove that Al Bean did not / does not suffer from any memory recall affliction?

"Who is "everyone"?"

Everyone who writes about the Apollo missions in wonder and amazement that not one astronot ever got hurt or ever got ill from any of the radiation exposure going through the belts or on the radioactive moon ..

Could you quote those who question it and have the necessary knowledge to determine what effects are significant and what is not?

"There are also the aspects of female physiology to consider."

So what are you trying to say ? ... That females need more protection from radiation then males do ? ... That's a new one on me .... and I thought I had heard them all .

Great! Something you haven't heard of. Is it then your position that radiation effects between males and females are immaterial?

"So what you are saying is that exposure duration to a radiation source is irrelevant to possible harm that exposure can do?"

Yes ... It's all bad if the shielding is not adequite .

Okay, IMO you are evading the question (because I said possible harm) but nevertheless - revised question: is exposure duration to a radiation source at a given level irrelevant to possible harm that exposure can do?