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David Lifton strikes paydirt in old radio tapes


Jack White
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Yesterday while reviewing some transcribed old notes taken many years ago

at the National Archives, David Lifton came across a long forgotten

information of the mother lode variety.

He was transcribing by hand, listening with earphones to audio tapes made

on the afternoon of 11-22-63, from KRLD Radio tape reels.

The reel was an interview by Jay Hogan of Mary Moorman and Jean Hill at

3:30 pm...on KRLD RADIO excerpts, Tape 5B and 6A at NARA.

I am excerpting from the lengthy transcript several relevant parts of the

interviews. Decide for yourself the importance of this first day evidence:

HOGAN:

Q: Hello, Mrs. Moorman?

A: Yes.

Q You took the picture just after the shooting, or just before?

A: Evidently, just immediately, as the. . . Cause he was, he was looking, you know,

whenever I got the camera focused and then I snapped it in my picture, he slumped over.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: About how close were you?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more . . . Because I fall behind my camera.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Were you up on that grassy bank there?

A: We stepped out in the street. We were right at the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: How many shots did you hear? You say "shots rang out".

A: Oh, oh, I don't know. I think three or four is what I, I uh, that I heard.

Q: Uh huh.

A: (continuing) that I'm sure of. Now, I don't know, there might have been more.

It just took seconds for me to realize what was happening.

Q: Yeah, uh, what as your first thought?

A: That those ARE shots. I mean, he had been HIT.

And that they're liable to hit me, cause I'm right at the car,

so I decided the place for me is to get on the ground (laughs)

Q: So huh, how did the president respond to this shot. I mean, did he just

slump suddenly?

A: He grabbed his chest, and of course, Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately,

and fell over him; and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

Q: Did you notice any other reactions...

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Uh, they hesitated just for a moment [referring, I believe, to the car itself,

rather than to the behavior of any particular individual--dsl] cause I think they

were like I was, you know--'Was that a shot," or was itj ust a backfire, or

just what? And then, course, he clutched himself and they immediately sped up,

real fast, you know, like--to get OUT of there. And, uh, the police, there were

several motorcycles around him; and, uh, they stopped, and uh--one or two must

of went with him, And one ran up the hill, and a friend that was with me ran up

the hill across the street from where the shots came from.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: It (shots) seemed fairly close by?

A: Yes, uh huh.

Q And form what direction did they seem to be?

A: Oh, Lord? North. Just back there (at--laughs)

Q: Just just right at you?

A: Yes, sir.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: The sound popped, well it just sounded like, well, you know, there might

have been a firecracker right there in that car.

Q: And in your picture, uh, you uh took this picture just BEFORE the shot?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Evidently, at the minute (means "instant") that he, that it hit him because,

uh, we was we was looking, at me, or I mean, he was looking, you know, at the

people when my picture came out. They just slumped over, so I must have got it.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Yes, uh huh. You could see he's clutched, he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Uh huh. And you and your friend Miss Hill, uh, were together there

at the scene. Was anybody else with you?

A No, uh uh.

Q: OK, well we sure thank you.

FROM HERE ON OUT, the interview continues with Jean Hill

Q: (continuing)

And also, here, we do have Miss Hill. Miss Hill, you were an

eyewitness, also?

A: Yes, I was . I suppose we were the people closest to the

President's car at the time.

Q: Uh, that as about 10 or fifteen feet, you'd say?

A: Not anymore than that at all.

Q: Uh huh. You were both looking right at the presidential car, then?

A: Yes, we were looking right at the President. We were looking at his face.

As Mary took the picture, I was looking at him. And he grabbed his hands across

his ch-when two shots rang out. He grabbed his hands across his chest. I have

never seen anyone killed, or in pain before like that but there was this odd

look came across his face, and he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

DSL NOTE: I believe this must mean: "to the side onto Jackie's lap" --because Jackie was

to the left of JFK, not in front of JFK. In my interview of the Newman's, circa 1971, in

person, and on tape, they talk of JFK falling to the side, or being thrust towards Jackie.

A: And uh, she immediately, we were close enough to even hear her, and

everything, and she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

Q: ..... Did you notice particularly any of the other people around? At the time (she cuts in)

A: There was NO one around us on our side of the street. We had planned it that way;

we wanted to be down there by ourselves; that’s the reason we had gotten almost

to the underpass, so we’d be completely in the clear.

Q: Any other reactions form the other people in the motorcae, that you recall?

A: The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came to a momentary halt,

and about that time 4 more uh, 3 to 4 more shots again rang out, and I guess it just didn't

register with me. Mary was uh had gotten down on the ground and was pulling at my leg,

saying "Get , get down, they're shooting, get down, they're shooting; and I didn't even

realize it. And I just kept sitting there looking. And uh uh just about that time, well,

of course, some of the motorcycles pulled away. And some of them pulled over to the side

and started running up the bank; there's a hill on the other side (she is interrupted)

Q: Yes, Maam.

A: And the shots came from there. After they were momentarily stopped--after the

first two shots--THEN they sped away REAL quickly.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Well, thank you Miss Hill, and also Miss Moorman, for speaking with us about this.

A. Thankyou.

ANNOUNCER: That's two eyewitnesses to the murdered president, who saw on his face the

anguish of his very last hour alive. Before we go back to CBS, here again are some

announcements of special local importance.

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

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Yesterday while reviewing some transcribed old notes taken many years ago

at the National Archives, David Lifton came across a long forgotten

information of the mother lode variety.

He was transcribing by hand, listening with earphones to audio tapes made

on the afternoon of 11-22-63, from KRLD Radio tape reels.

The reel was an interview by Jay Hogan of Mary Moorman and Jean Hill at

3:30 pm...on KRLD RADIO excerpts, Tape 5B and 6A at NARA.

I am excerpting from the lengthy transcript several relevant parts of the

interviews. Decide for yourself the importance of this first day evidence:

HOGAN:

Q: Hello, Mrs. Moorman?

A: Yes.

Q You took the picture just after the shooting, or just before?

A: Evidently, just immediately, as the. . . Cause he was, he was looking, you know,

whenever I got the camera focused and then I snapped it in my picture, he slumped over.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: About how close were you?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more . . . Because I fall behind my camera.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Were you up on that grassy bank there?

A: We stepped out in the street. We were right at the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: How many shots did you hear? You say "shots rang out".

A: Oh, oh, I don't know. I think three or four is what I, I uh, that I heard.

Q: Uh huh.

A: (continuing) that I'm sure of. Now, I don't know, there might have been more.

It just took seconds for me to realize what was happening.

Q: Yeah, uh, what as your first thought?

A: That those ARE shots. I mean, he had been HIT.

And that they're liable to hit me, cause I'm right at the car,

so I decided the place for me is to get on the ground (laughs)

Q: So huh, how did the president respond to this shot. I mean, did he just

slump suddenly?

A: He grabbed his chest, and of course, Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately,

and fell over him; and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

Q: Did you notice any other reactions...

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Uh, they hesitated just for a moment [referring, I believe, to the car itself,

rather than to the behavior of any particular individual--dsl] cause I think they

were like I was, you know--'Was that a shot," or was itj ust a backfire, or

just what? And then, course, he clutched himself and they immediately sped up,

real fast, you know, like--to get OUT of there. And, uh, the police, there were

several motorcycles around him; and, uh, they stopped, and uh--one or two must

of went with him, And one ran up the hill, and a friend that was with me ran up

the hill across the street from where the shots came from.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: It (shots) seemed fairly close by?

A: Yes, uh huh.

Q And form what direction did they seem to be?

A: Oh, Lord? North. Just back there (at--laughs)

Q: Just just right at you?

A: Yes, sir.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: The sound popped, well it just sounded like, well, you know, there might

have been a firecracker right there in that car.

Q: And in your picture, uh, you uh took this picture just BEFORE the shot?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Evidently, at the minute (means "instant") that he, that it hit him because,

uh, we was we was looking, at me, or I mean, he was looking, you know, at the

people when my picture came out. They just slumped over, so I must have got it.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Yes, uh huh. You could see he's clutched, he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Uh huh. And you and your friend Miss Hill, uh, were together there

at the scene. Was anybody else with you?

A No, uh uh.

Q: OK, well we sure thank you.

FROM HERE ON OUT, the interview continues with Jean Hill

Q: (continuing)

And also, here, we do have Miss Hill. Miss Hill, you were an

eyewitness, also?

A: Yes, I was . I suppose we were the people closest to the

President's car at the time.

Q: Uh, that as about 10 or fifteen feet, you'd say?

A: Not anymore than that at all.

Q: Uh huh. You were both looking right at the presidential car, then?

A: Yes, we were looking right at the President. We were looking at his face.

As Mary took the picture, I was looking at him. And he grabbed his hands across

his ch-when two shots rang out. He grabbed his hands across his chest. I have

never seen anyone killed, or in pain before like that but there was this odd

look came across his face, and he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

DSL NOTE: I believe this must mean: "to the side onto Jackie's lap" --because Jackie was

to the left of JFK, not in front of JFK. In my interview of the Newman's, circa 1971, in

person, and on tape, they talk of JFK falling to the side, or being thrust towards Jackie.

A: And uh, she immediately, we were close enough to even hear her, and

everything, and she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

Q: ..... Did you notice particularly any of the other people around? At the time (she cuts in)

A: There was NO one around us on our side of the street. We had planned it that way;

we wanted to be down there by ourselves; that’s the reason we had gotten almost

to the underpass, so we’d be completely in the clear.

Q: Any other reactions form the other people in the motorcae, that you recall?

A: The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came to a momentary halt,

and about that time 4 more uh, 3 to 4 more shots again rang out, and I guess it just didn't

register with me. Mary was uh had gotten down on the ground and was pulling at my leg,

saying "Get , get down, they're shooting, get down, they're shooting; and I didn't even

realize it. And I just kept sitting there looking. And uh uh just about that time, well,

of course, some of the motorcycles pulled away. And some of them pulled over to the side

and started running up the bank; there's a hill on the other side (she is interrupted)

Q: Yes, Maam.

A: And the shots came from there. After they were momentarily stopped--after the

first two shots--THEN they sped away REAL quickly.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Well, thank you Miss Hill, and also Miss Moorman, for speaking with us about this.

A. Thankyou.

ANNOUNCER: That's two eyewitnesses to the murdered president, who saw on his face the

anguish of his very last hour alive. Before we go back to CBS, here again are some

announcements of special local importance.

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

Mary says JFK clutched his chest. A through and through, from the back, exiting through the chest, would be the logical explanation for the origin of Connally's back wound. Instead, we have the shot in the neck with an exit through the throat, then striking Connally story.

A question...What if there had been two wounds from behind? One entering the back, exiting through the chest, and the other in the neck exiting through the throat? If one of the wounds from the rear had to disappear, to support the WC version of events, wouldn't the logical step be to merge the two shots into one?

Mary says she heard something, which sounded like a firecracker, "pop" in the car. What caused that popping sound?

Jean says she heard 3-4 shots after the first two shots.

Falling forward, from her position, could have been her way of saying JFK fell towards her.

Why do neither of these women say a word about the head wound? Witnessing JFK's head exploding should

have been a traumatic event and it makes no sense that neither of them talked about witnessing that horrible

event. Also, being that close, wouldn't some of that cloud of debris have settled upon one, or both, of these two ladies?

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Q And form what direction did they seem to be?

A: Oh, Lord? North. Just back there (at--laughs)

Q: Just just right at you? (North, right at you - Collonnade(ed))

A: Yes, sir.

____________________

Q: ..... Did you notice particularly any of the other people around? At the time (she cuts in)

A: There was NO one around us on our side of the street.

We had planned it that way;

we wanted to be down there by ourselves; that’s the reason we had gotten almost

to the underpass, so we’d be completely in the clear.

________________

Reddy, Steddy, GO

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Fantastic Jack

It answers so many questions.....and what I find as most significant is that this occurred only two hours after the shooting, and before this testimony would have been influenced by other testimony, hearsay, or "coercion".

It also further verifies NO HEAD SNAP ! What is seen on the Z film did not happen. Regardless of how many "theoretical experts" testify that this film could not be altered successfully .....IT WAS! These ladies reported JFK's body movement's after being shot exactly as reported by the other Dealey eyewitnesses (which reported on the "afternoon of the assassination").

I know that within minutes I am going to be told that Mary and Jean were as mistaken as all of the other witnesses, because the "Z film shows something quite different"! And since we KNOW that it is IMPOSSIBLE to alter the Z film ....the witnesses are absolutely wrong! It would not matter if there were fifty thousand witnesses, they would all necessarily be wrong.

After all, we know that eyewitnesses are necessarily wrong.....that is why we still do not know who won the Super Bowl !

Charlie Black

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SORRY DOUBLE POST SORRY ! ! !

It answers so many questions.....and what I find as most significant is that this occurred only two hours after the shooting, and before this testimony would have been influenced by other testimony, hearsay, or "coercion".

It also further verifies NO HEAD SNAP ! What is seen on the Z film did not happen. Regardless of how many "theoretical experts" testify that this film could not be altered successfully .....IT WAS! These ladies reported JFK's body movement's after being shot exactly as reported by the other Dealey eyewitnesses (which reported on the "afternoon of the assassination").

I know that within minutes I am going to be told that Mary and Jean were as mistaken as all of the other witnesses, because the "Z film shows something quite different"! And since we KNOW that it is IMPOSSIBLE to alter the Z film ....the witnesses are absolutely wrong! It would not matter if there were fifty thousand witnesses, they would all necessarily be wrong.

After all, we know that eyewitnesses are necessarily wrong.....that is why we still do not know who won the Super Bowl !

Charlie Black

Since Posner has argued that original recollections are best, he has a bit of a problem doesn't he?

I think the Z film is flawed simply because we have a faulty chain of evidence and no real reliable record was where its been

Edited by Evan Marshall
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Hello Evan

Exactly ! They were up close....looking directly at the target and reported what every witness reported that made a statement that early. No Hollywood head and body violent reaction. I feel that when this film was altered, they never thought that it would be seen by persons who had witnessed bullet hits.

Charlie Black

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The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came to a momentary halt,

and about that time 4 more uh, 3 to 4 more shots again rang out, and I guess it just didn't

register with me. Mary was uh had gotten down on the ground and was pulling at my leg,

saying "Get , get down, they're shooting, get down, they're shooting; and I didn't even

realize it. And I just kept sitting there looking. And uh uh just about that time, well,

of course, some of the motorcycles pulled away. And some of them pulled over to the side

and started running up the bank; there's a hill on the other side (she is interrupted)

Q: Yes, Maam.

A: And the shots came from there. After they were momentarily stopped--after the

first two shots--THEN they sped away REAL quickly.

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...

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

This is fantastic testimony Jack.

I wonder what else is stored and ignored in the archives.

It's very clear that there are at least 4 to 6 shots, at least some from the knoll.

Is there any way we could see the entire transcript?

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...

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

This is fantastic testimony Jack.

I wonder what else is stored and ignored in the archives.

It's very clear that there are at least 4 to 6 shots, at least some from the knoll.

Is there any way we could see the entire transcript?

I will try to post the entire transcript if possible. I posted all the RELEVANT parts.

This is basically from Lifton's notes to himself as he transcribed what he was

hearing in headphones. His notes are interspersed among the transcript itself,

and I will have to go thru and DELETE all of Lifton's notes. However, you will

find that what I deleted was irrelevent, such as where they live, etc. If you

find anything relevant that I deleted, let us know.

Of course, the RELEVANT COMMENTS are:

1. Moorman was in the street, contrary to Z film.

2. Shots came from the knoll, contrary to Z film.

3. Limo came to a stop, contrary to Z film.

4. JFK fell into Jackie's lap, contrary to Z film.

5. Jackie stood up in the car, contrary to Z film.

6. Neither reported seeing head explosion, contrary to Z film.

Jack

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...

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

This is fantastic testimony Jack.

I wonder what else is stored and ignored in the archives.

It's very clear that there are at least 4 to 6 shots, at least some from the knoll.

Is there any way we could see the entire transcript?

I will try to post the entire transcript if possible. I posted all the RELEVANT parts.

This is basically from Lifton's notes to himself as he transcribed what he was

hearing in headphones. His notes are interspersed among the transcript itself,

and I will have to go thru and DELETE all of Lifton's notes. However, you will

find that what I deleted was irrelevent, such as where they live, etc. If you

find anything relevant that I deleted, let us know.

Of course, the RELEVANT COMMENTS are:

1. Moorman was in the street, contrary to Z film.

2. Shots came from the knoll, contrary to Z film.

3. Limo came to a stop, contrary to Z film.

4. JFK fell into Jackie's lap, contrary to Z film.

5. Jackie stood up in the car, contrary to Z film.

6. Neither reported seeing head explosion, contrary to Z film.

Jack

NO, never mind Jack. Don't bother if the omitted segments are irrelevant.

Thanks for leaving them out in fact.

Great find.

This stuff should be in a press release, and/or a book...

Any idea if Lifton is planning another book?

Edited by Myra Bronstein
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6. Neither reported seeing head explosion, contrary to Z film.

Eyewitness Bill Newman, on the opposite side of the street, was closer to JFK than Moorman and Hill were at the time of the head shot. That same afternoon Newman said in his Sheriff's Department statement, "I was looking directly at him when he was hit in the side of the head. Then he fell back and Governor Connally was holding his middle section. . . . It looked like Mrs. Kennedy jumped on top of the President. He kinda (sic) fell back and it looked like she was holding him."

Within an hour of the shooting, Newman said on WFAA TV that "a gunshot from apparently behind us hit the President in the side of the temple." Newman told the FBI on 11/24 that he "saw flesh fly from the President's head."

Moorman and Hill could not see the bullet impact JFK's head as Newman did, and though the two women don't mention a head snap or JFK falling back, Newman reiterated that JFK "fell back."

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...

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

This is fantastic testimony Jack.

I wonder what else is stored and ignored in the archives.

It's very clear that there are at least 4 to 6 shots, at least some from the knoll.

Is there any way we could see the entire transcript?

I will try to post the entire transcript if possible. I posted all the RELEVANT parts.

This is basically from Lifton's notes to himself as he transcribed what he was

hearing in headphones. His notes are interspersed among the transcript itself,

and I will have to go thru and DELETE all of Lifton's notes. However, you will

find that what I deleted was irrelevent, such as where they live, etc. If you

find anything relevant that I deleted, let us know.

Of course, the RELEVANT COMMENTS are:

1. Moorman was in the street, contrary to Z film.

2. Shots came from the knoll, contrary to Z film.

3. Limo came to a stop, contrary to Z film.

4. JFK fell into Jackie's lap, contrary to Z film.

5. Jackie stood up in the car, contrary to Z film.

6. Neither reported seeing head explosion, contrary to Z film.

Jack

NO, never mind Jack. Don't bother if the omitted segments are irrelevant.

Thanks for leaving them out in fact.

Great find.

This stuff should be in a press release, and/or a book...

Any idea if Lifton is planning another book?

Lifton has been working on a new book for about fifteen years. It originally

was to be only on LHO, but Armstrong beat him to the punch. He has now

expanded it to cover the entire case, old evidence and NEW, including the

faking of the Z film. That is why he was excited to find this old KRLD interview

right after the event. He sent copies to several of us who are cooperating

on Zapruder research. He gave me permission to post the transcript, but

not his notes to himself or to us.

Jack

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...

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

This is fantastic testimony Jack.

I wonder what else is stored and ignored in the archives.

It's very clear that there are at least 4 to 6 shots, at least some from the knoll.

Is there any way we could see the entire transcript?

I will try to post the entire transcript if possible. I posted all the RELEVANT parts.

This is basically from Lifton's notes to himself as he transcribed what he was

hearing in headphones. His notes are interspersed among the transcript itself,

and I will have to go thru and DELETE all of Lifton's notes. However, you will

find that what I deleted was irrelevent, such as where they live, etc. If you

find anything relevant that I deleted, let us know.

Of course, the RELEVANT COMMENTS are:

1. Moorman was in the street, contrary to Z film.

2. Shots came from the knoll, contrary to Z film.

3. Limo came to a stop, contrary to Z film.

4. JFK fell into Jackie's lap, contrary to Z film.

5. Jackie stood up in the car, contrary to Z film.

6. Neither reported seeing head explosion, contrary to Z film.

Jack

NO, never mind Jack. Don't bother if the omitted segments are irrelevant.

Thanks for leaving them out in fact.

Great find.

This stuff should be in a press release, and/or a book...

Any idea if Lifton is planning another book?

Lifton has been working on a new book for about fifteen years. It originally

was to be only on LHO, but Armstrong beat him to the punch. He has now

expanded it to cover the entire case, old evidence and NEW, including the

faking of the Z film. That is why he was excited to find this old KRLD interview

right after the event. He sent copies to several of us who are cooperating

on Zapruder research. He gave me permission to post the transcript, but

not his notes to himself or to us.

Jack

That's quite decent of him to quickly share the transcript revelations and not squirrel them away for his book.

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...

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

This is fantastic testimony Jack.

I wonder what else is stored and ignored in the archives.

It's very clear that there are at least 4 to 6 shots, at least some from the knoll.

Is there any way we could see the entire transcript?

I will try to post the entire transcript if possible. I posted all the RELEVANT parts.

This is basically from Lifton's notes to himself as he transcribed what he was

hearing in headphones. His notes are interspersed among the transcript itself,

and I will have to go thru and DELETE all of Lifton's notes. However, you will

find that what I deleted was irrelevent, such as where they live, etc. If you

find anything relevant that I deleted, let us know.

Of course, the RELEVANT COMMENTS are:

1. Moorman was in the street, contrary to Z film.

2. Shots came from the knoll, contrary to Z film.

3. Limo came to a stop, contrary to Z film.

4. JFK fell into Jackie's lap, contrary to Z film.

5. Jackie stood up in the car, contrary to Z film.

6. Neither reported seeing head explosion, contrary to Z film.

Jack

NO, never mind Jack. Don't bother if the omitted segments are irrelevant.

Thanks for leaving them out in fact.

Great find.

This stuff should be in a press release, and/or a book...

Any idea if Lifton is planning another book?

Lifton has been working on a new book for about fifteen years. It originally

was to be only on LHO, but Armstrong beat him to the punch. He has now

expanded it to cover the entire case, old evidence and NEW, including the

faking of the Z film. That is why he was excited to find this old KRLD interview

right after the event. He sent copies to several of us who are cooperating

on Zapruder research. He gave me permission to post the transcript, but

not his notes to himself or to us.

Jack

That's quite decent of him to quickly share the transcript revelations and not squirrel them away for his book.

Anyone can go to the Archives and listen to the tapes.

But I could not share Lifton's notes and thoughts expressed privately.

Yes, it was very nice of him to share...he actually wanted them revealed

so long as it was clear that HE transcribed what was said in longhand while

listening to tapes on headphones. There were several passages where

he said "inaudible" or sometimes "guessed at words", but I omitted all of

such instances.

Jack

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The 11/23 report of Moorman's FBI interview states, "She recalls seeing the president 'sort of jump' and start to slump sideways in the seat."

This suggests to me that Moorman saw the head snap but didn't discern it as such in looking through the camera viewfinder. All she knew is that she saw JFK "sort of jump."

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