Evan Burton Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 (edited) I'd like to try a little experiment here. It may fail but hopefully - if nothing else - it will prove enlightening & possibly entertaining. Forum readers will be aware of the heated debates between the "Apollogists" and the "Apollo Hoaxers". As an "Apollogist", I am sometimes frustrated by what I see as illogical reasoning and a willingness to disregard counter-evidence. So, as two of most notable "hoax proponents" on the Forum, I'd like to invite Duane and Jack to participate in a challenge. I would like them to either jointly or separately give an example of a major event that they have no doubt happened as history recorded, i.e. a 'mainstream' belief. This event should ideally have images recording it, preferably involve the USA, and they should examine the event such that they can state they are sure it really did happen. Myself and other "Apollogists" who wish to participate will then take a contrary stance, arguing that the event was faked somehow, that supporting evidence for that event has been altered / faked. This may not necessarily be our opinion, but we will take a contrary view and use what in our opinion are similar techniques or errors used by the "hoax proponents" to support our arguments. The aim of this exercise is to illustrate methods, devices, techniques, and errors that are used when either supporting or countering a proposition. Jack, Duane - are you up for it? Edited to add: The event / topic should NOT be something that is already discussed on the Forum. This will prevent this thread from distracting from the 'genuine' discussions. Edited February 25, 2007 by Evan Burton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Geraghty Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts. Please, humour me! All the best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Valenti Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts.Please, humour me! All the best, John If they're not interested, I have a suggestion: Woodstock never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts.Please, humour me! All the best, John If they're not interested, I have a suggestion: Woodstock never happened. Of course it never happened...it was just a bad trip from the purple acid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts.Please, humour me! All the best, John If they're not interested, I have a suggestion: Woodstock never happened. Of course it never happened...it was just a bad trip from the purple acid... I know Woodstock never happened, because I was there, and I'm not in the picture. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Valenti Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It was the Beatles who paid for the Woodstock hoax. They had been hounded by British undercovers who were determined to keep busting them for drug possession, eventually running them and the Rolling Stones into jail. The overall goal was to prove that the counter culture had a destabilizing effect on society. Lennon (and Yoko) thought they should make a grand gesture of peace, love and music to show the world how hippies could re-create the world. Of course nobody in their right minds would think hippies could actually pull it off so the Beatles, together with Tim Leary, Ken Kesey and Hollywood producer Robert Evans, concocted a ruse to bus several hundred movie extras to upstate New York where they could be filmed and duplicated on screen to create the effect of a massive crowd. The only performer who actually appeared in person was John Sebastian of the Lovin Spoonful - he was so stoned he actually believed he was singing in front of an enormous crowd. Wavy Gravy (Hugh Romney) was coordinator of security and The Amazing Kreskin was recruited to oversee the placement of huge mirrors to create the illusion (side note: Kreskin was killed during the weekend, crushed beneath a Mama Cass impersonator. He was replaced by a Kreskin lookalike). Of course, the whole world came to believe that the concert was a muddy but loving success. The Nixon administration quickly rebutted this success with a stage-managed murder at Altamont and later, engineered the Manson murders to put and end to the hippie movement once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Walker Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts.Please, humour me! All the best, John If they're not interested, I have a suggestion: Woodstock never happened. Of course it never happened...it was just a bad trip from the purple acid... Was ALL the footage falsiified? Even Joe Cocker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts.Please, humour me! All the best, John If they're not interested, I have a suggestion: Woodstock never happened. Of course it never happened...it was just a bad trip from the purple acid... Was ALL the footage falsiified? Even Joe Cocker? Yep...just a figment...even Country Joe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Walker Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts.Please, humour me! All the best, John If they're not interested, I have a suggestion: Woodstock never happened. Of course it never happened...it was just a bad trip from the purple acid... Was ALL the footage falsiified? Even Joe Cocker? Yep...just a figment...even Country Joe.... I don't believe you guys. I think you're having us on. Prove it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This seems very interesting Evan. Jack, Duane, I too would be interested for you to take part in this experiment of sorts.Please, humour me! All the best, John If they're not interested, I have a suggestion: Woodstock never happened. Of course it never happened...it was just a bad trip from the purple acid... Was ALL the footage falsiified? Even Joe Cocker? Yep...just a figment...even Country Joe.... I don't believe you guys. I think you're having us on. Prove it! I know the footage I saw was obviously filmed on a soundstage, stagelights and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Walker Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I know the footage I saw was obviously filmed on a soundstage, stagelights and all... You'll need to do better than that. How about ONE piece of hard evidence that Woodstock was, in fact, faked? That shouldn't be too hard, should it? Others may require a much higher standard of proof - but that should get you started. You're the ones making the claim. So prove it... if you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I know the footage I saw was obviously filmed on a soundstage, stagelights and all... You'll need to do better than that. How about ONE piece of hard evidence that Woodstock was, in fact, faked? That shouldn't be too hard, should it? Others may require a much higher standard of proof - but that should get you started. You're the ones making the claim. So prove it... if you can! Have you SEEN the footage? Its pretty clear is is nothing but a fraud and a fake. Open your eyes and your mind! I know what I saw...the whole thing is NOTHING but a giant hoax! How much more proof do you need...just look at the footage! But...just to make you happy...the Feds were passing out that bad purple acid all over the country...and thats a fact! You need a reality check Sid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Walker Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I know the footage I saw was obviously filmed on a soundstage, stagelights and all... You'll need to do better than that. How about ONE piece of hard evidence that Woodstock was, in fact, faked? That shouldn't be too hard, should it? Others may require a much higher standard of proof - but that should get you started. You're the ones making the claim. So prove it... if you can! Have you SEEN the footage? Its pretty clear is is nothing but a fraud and a fake. Open your eyes and your mind! I know what I saw...the whole thing is NOTHING but a giant hoax! How much more proof do you need...just look at the footage! But...just to make you happy...the Feds were passing out that bad purple acid all over the country...and thats a fact! You need a reality check Sid! That won't do. I'm beginning to think you guys are just nutters (but I won't breach forum rules by suggesting it). Be specific, if you want to make your case. Get us started - if you can - with ONE case of fabricated evidence (photographic or video). After all, there's so much of it - if you are right - you must be able to find one or two specific cases of photographic or video evidence that are demonstrable fakes, on close examination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I know the footage I saw was obviously filmed on a soundstage, stagelights and all... You'll need to do better than that. How about ONE piece of hard evidence that Woodstock was, in fact, faked? That shouldn't be too hard, should it? Others may require a much higher standard of proof - but that should get you started. You're the ones making the claim. So prove it... if you can! Have you SEEN the footage? Its pretty clear is is nothing but a fraud and a fake. Open your eyes and your mind! I know what I saw...the whole thing is NOTHING but a giant hoax! How much more proof do you need...just look at the footage! But...just to make you happy...the Feds were passing out that bad purple acid all over the country...and thats a fact! You need a reality check Sid! That won't do. I'm beginning to think you guys are just nutters (but I won't breach forum rules by suggesting it). Be specific, if you want to make your case. Get us started - if you can - with ONE case of fabricated evidence (photographic or video). After all, there's so much of it - if you are right - you must be able to find one or two specific cases of photographic or video evidence that are demonstrable fakes, on close examination. Ok, try this one. Are we to believe that 500,000 wonderful human beings, dedicated to peace, love and the environment would leave a mess like this? Its clealy a setup designed to cast these youth in a bad light. Its pretty clear to any reasonable person this photo was faked...heck even the shadows look wrong...AND WHERE ARE THE FOOTPRINTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Walker Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I know the footage I saw was obviously filmed on a soundstage, stagelights and all... You'll need to do better than that. How about ONE piece of hard evidence that Woodstock was, in fact, faked? That shouldn't be too hard, should it? Others may require a much higher standard of proof - but that should get you started. You're the ones making the claim. So prove it... if you can! Have you SEEN the footage? Its pretty clear is is nothing but a fraud and a fake. Open your eyes and your mind! I know what I saw...the whole thing is NOTHING but a giant hoax! How much more proof do you need...just look at the footage! But...just to make you happy...the Feds were passing out that bad purple acid all over the country...and thats a fact! You need a reality check Sid! That won't do. I'm beginning to think you guys are just nutters (but I won't breach forum rules by suggesting it). Be specific, if you want to make your case. Get us started - if you can - with ONE case of fabricated evidence (photographic or video). After all, there's so much of it - if you are right - you must be able to find one or two specific cases of photographic or video evidence that are demonstrable fakes, on close examination. Ok, try this one. Are we to believe that 500,000 wonderful human beings, dedicated to peace, love and the environment would leave a mess like this? Its clealy a setup designed to cast these youth in a bad light. Its pretty clear to any reasonable person this photo was faked...heck even the shadows look wrong...AND WHERE ARE THE FOOTPRINTS! That's really daft. You won't see human footprints at that level of resolution. Show me one comparable photo where they are obvious. As to your cultural observations, I'm sad to say your image of the 60s was rose-tinted. I take it you were never one of the folk who stayed behind after rock concerts clearing up and earning good karma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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