What we know for certain

[Guest Mark Valenti]

On 11-22-63 JFK was killed and JBC was wounded.

That's it.

All other facts are in dispute.

Every time a theory is floated, an alternate theory rises. Whether this is part of an overall plan to prevent the truth from emerging or whether it's simply human nature - it's a reality. Someone says red, someone else says blue.

Here's a short, incomplete list of theories that remain unproven or facts which are under attack:

A single bullet hit both JFK and JBC.

All shots were fired from behind.

Some shots were fired from the grassy knoll.

Zapruder filmed the assassination.

JFK's body was altered.

The autopsy photos were altered.

The X-rays were altered.

The CIA was involved.

The Mafia was involved.

Anti-Castro Cubans were involved.

LHO killed JFK.

LHO wasn't really LHO.

The backyard photos are genuine.

Ruth and Michael Paine are spies.

LHO killed Tippit.

The tramps killed JFK.

Jimmy Files killed JFK.

Nicoletti fired a gun that day.

Bill Greer killed JFK.

The Secret Service was involved.

HL Hunt was in on it.

Howard Hunt was a tramp.

Charles Harrelson was a tramp.

Frank Sturgis was a tramp.

Frenchy was a tramp.

Chauncey Holt was a tramp.

Jack Ruby knew LHO.

Jack Ruby knew Tippit.

The 112th was told to "stand down."

Conein was in Dealey Plaza.

Lansdale was in Dealey Plaza.

Rip Robertson was in Dealey Plaza.

It was a Mauser, not a Carcano.

JFK was shot from a sewer.

LBJ engineered it.

The throat had a wound of entry.

The throat had a wound of exit.

The throat had a wound from mercury.

A shot was fired from inside the limo.

Ida Dox was in on it.

Charles Crenshaw was there.

Charles Crenshaw wasn't there.

Prouty read about the killing before it happened.

Badgeman shot JFK.

There was no Badgeman.

Black Dog Man shot him.

There was no Black Dog Man.

There was blood on the sidewalk.

Milteer knew it was going to happen.

Milteer was just a right wing gasbag.

JFK's coat was bunched.

JFK's coat was not bunched.

Umbrella Man was in on it.

Epilepsy Man was in on it.

A shot came from the Dal Tex building.

A shot came from the Courts building.

The motorcycle cop's mike was stuck on.

The paper bag carried the rifle.

LHO drove a Rambler.

Ruby was in Dealey Plaza.

The limo stopped.

The TSBD lost phone and electricity.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Mark, one other salient fact which may, or may not have baring on the assassination. The Secret Service washed the Limo clean of all evidence before it could be forensically examined. But, by and large you are correct, all other evidence is in dispute, and this after more than forty three years. Steve FWIW.

[David G. Healy]

On 11-22-63 JFK was killed and JBC was wounded.

That's it.

All other facts are in dispute.

Every time a theory is floated, an alternate theory rises. Whether this is part of an overall plan to prevent the truth from emerging or whether it's simply human nature - it's a reality. Someone says red, someone else says blue.

Here's a short, incomplete list of theories that remain unproven or facts which are under attack:

A single bullet hit both JFK and JBC.

All shots were fired from behind.

Some shots were fired from the grassy knoll.

Zapruder filmed the assassination.

JFK's body was altered.

The autopsy photos were altered.

The X-rays were altered.

The CIA was involved.

The Mafia was involved.

Anti-Castro Cubans were involved.

LHO killed JFK.

LHO wasn't really LHO.

The backyard photos are genuine.

Ruth and Michael Paine are spies.

LHO killed Tippit.

The tramps killed JFK.

Jimmy Files killed JFK.

Nicoletti fired a gun that day.

Bill Greer killed JFK.

The Secret Service was involved.

HL Hunt was in on it.

Howard Hunt was a tramp.

Charles Harrelson was a tramp.

Frank Sturgis was a tramp.

Frenchy was a tramp.

Chauncey Holt was a tramp.

Jack Ruby knew LHO.

Jack Ruby knew Tippit.

The 112th was told to "stand down."

Conein was in Dealey Plaza.

Lansdale was in Dealey Plaza.

Rip Robertson was in Dealey Plaza.

It was a Mauser, not a Carcano.

JFK was shot from a sewer.

LBJ engineered it.

The throat had a wound of entry.

The throat had a wound of exit.

The throat had a wound from mercury.

A shot was fired from inside the limo.

Ida Dox was in on it.

Charles Crenshaw was there.

Charles Crenshaw wasn't there.

Prouty read about the killing before it happened.

Badgeman shot JFK.

There was no Badgeman.

Black Dog Man shot him.

There was no Black Dog Man.

There was blood on the sidewalk.

Milteer knew it was going to happen.

Milteer was just a right wing gasbag.

JFK's coat was bunched.

JFK's coat was not bunched.

Umbrella Man was in on it.

Epilepsy Man was in on it.

A shot came from the Dal Tex building.

A shot came from the Courts building.

The motorcycle cop's mike was stuck on.

The paper bag carried the rifle.

LHO drove a Rambler.

Ruby was in Dealey Plaza.

The limo stopped.

The TSBD lost phone and electricity.

good post Mark,

*the Zapruder film is altered-not altered

mind if I use the list elsewhere?

Edited March 8, 2007 by David G. Healy

[Ron Ecker]

The Secret Service washed the Limo clean of all evidence before it could be forensically examined. .

Is that not also in dispute? All that we know, from photographs, is that a bucket of water was used in conjunction with putting the top on the limo at Parkland. Everything else, e.g. some agent asking a busy nurse for water to wash the car with, is hearsay.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

*the Zapruder film is altered-not altered

mind if I use the list elsewhere?

David,

Sure, have at it. It's incomplete so feel free to add as you see fit.

[Jack White]

Mark declared:

JFK was killed and JBC was wounded.

That's it.

All other facts are in dispute.

I remember watching as Jack Ruby shot LHO.

Am I wrong?

Jack

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Mark declared:

JFK was killed and JBC was wounded.

That's it.

All other facts are in dispute.

I remember watching as Jack Ruby shot LHO.

Am I wrong?

Jack

I understand that there is a dispute over LHO's identity. Was it Harvey who was shot? Or was it Lee?

[Jack White]

Mark declared:

JFK was killed and JBC was wounded.

That's it.

All other facts are in dispute.

I remember watching as Jack Ruby shot LHO.

Am I wrong?

Jack

I understand that there is a dispute over LHO's identity. Was it Harvey who was shot? Or was it Lee?

OK...How about JACK RUBY SHOT THE ALLEGED ASSASSIN?

[Guest Mark Valenti]

OK...How about JACK RUBY SHOT THE ALLEGED ASSASSIN?

I believe that's accurate. Ruby shot someone who was in police custody and who was being charged with two murders.

Although it's not clear that the alleged assassin died from that gunshot wound. There is even a dispute about that, about what really killed him.

Allegedly some of the medical team performed a physical maneuver (heart massage?) on his chest in the ambulance that worsened his condition and maybe even hastened his death. Possibly on purpose.

This leads to a whole new round of disputed details.

The missing mastoid scar.

The skull removal.

Dental records.

Fingerprinting a corpse.

Changing LHO height.

Did he really write that diary?

Which books did he take out of the libary?

John Abt phone call

Nag's Head phone call

and on and on.

[Frank Agbat]

...I think it is reasonably certain that the events occurred in Dallas, Texas...

[Thomas Graves]

...I think it is reasonably certain that the events occurred in Dallas, Texas...

_____________________________

Actually, I heard a rumor that it all went down in Disneyland and then everything was

altered...

--Thomas

_____________________________

[John Dolva]

...I think it is reasonably certain that the events occurred in Dallas, Texas...

Yep.

'Being Local'

part of the 'hood. The homies. The across the backfence talkers. The brothers, sisters, mums and dads, employers, employees, the local drunk, the village loon, to the checkout chicks, who take care of their own. These are the people who have the reps and the anonymity that 'the suits' do not. And among the locals are the members of the local Law with an extra 'code'.

These are the ones that can go to a neighbourhood, talk to one person and everyone is the audience.

These are also the ones that can enter, chop and go. The 'word' and 'the rep' is a protection that draws a line in the sand over which few will step without fear.

Now when you have a City, in particular the Dallas of the mid twentieth century, you're 'in' or 'out' on the word of the bosses. And if (for example) the bosses get the word out that the cubans(the mob, the CIA, the anti cubans etc etc) were in town' then : the cubans (etc) were in town. It's irrelevant whether they actually were or not.

This is one reason I think it was Dallas DP.

It was the heart, of not only Dallas, but also of Texas itself.

In that environment, the non-local stands out like a sore thumb.

The issues and perpetrators were Local and the 'stepping over the line of the sand' is easily dealt with and the message gets across loud and clear for all concerned. IE 44 years of wandering in the wilderness, like puppets on a string.

Edited March 10, 2007 by John Dolva

[Guest Mark Valenti]

The issues and perpetrators were Local and the 'stepping over the line of the sand' is easily dealt with and the message gets across loud and clear for all concerned. IE 44 years of wandering in the wilderness, like puppets on a string.

John,

I agree with this notion -- as I've waded through endless twists and turns, global conspiracy, far-flung participants, I believe more and more that whatever this may have been - it was local.

[John Dolva]

Ok, they are now old or dead. They are now old or dead. Their children and childrens friends have, if possible, stories, and somewhere, documents, diaries, letters. It's a fools game to disturb them. They have their rights to live a private life. Should any have something to pass on, there are ways. And there are those who can treat it with respect.

Dallas has changed, a new mayor. An unravelling of old unustices. Wrongs put right. It's possible.

[Frank Agbat]

Not to derail the thread here, but if it was local, why the obvious sham investigation (WC) and various aspects that seem to point to a cover-up at the Federal level?