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CIA stooge Max Holland in town...


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Gary Mack came on camera and said it was an "interesting theory".
Jack misrepresented my opinion of Max's theory. I do NOT believe it and have told him so in several private emails.
Gosh Bill, how sweet of you to serve as Mack's mouthpiece.

Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

If Jack's story is not true and Gary wanted to refute it without crossing his self-imposed line of posting on forums, he could provide the best evidence available to Bill Miller and then Bill could report the evidence on its own merits, without resorting to the "Gary said" bastion. I welcome clarifications, and Gary Mack is in a position to provide them at times, but if he is unwilling to do so without using buffers, then he should just let them go. Plenty of misrepresentations are made about Robert Groden, but you don't see him sending out a deniable mouthpiece to defend himself.

Tim

"Gary Dunkle"? Does Mack have an alias Tim?

**********************************************************

""Gary Dunkle"? Does Mack have an alias Tim?"

Dunkle is his actual surname, Myra. German, if I'm not mistaken.

Mack is his alias, or his professional "stage" name.

Edited by Terry Mauro
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Gary Mack came on camera and said it was an "interesting theory".
Jack misrepresented my opinion of Max's theory. I do NOT believe it and have told him so in several private emails.
Gosh Bill, how sweet of you to serve as Mack's mouthpiece.

Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

If Jack's story is not true and Gary wanted to refute it without crossing his self-imposed line of posting on forums, he could provide the best evidence available to Bill Miller and then Bill could report the evidence on its own merits, without resorting to the "Gary said" bastion. I welcome clarifications, and Gary Mack is in a position to provide them at times, but if he is unwilling to do so without using buffers, then he should just let them go. Plenty of misrepresentations are made about Robert Groden, but you don't see him sending out a deniable mouthpiece to defend himself.

Tim

"Gary Dunkle"? Does Mack have an alias Tim?

**********************************************************

""Gary Dunkle"? Does Mack have an alias Tim?"

Dunkle is his actual surname, Myra. German, if I'm not mistaken.

Mack is his alias, or his professional "stage" name.

I see. Sorta...

Thanks Terry.

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Gary Mack came on camera and said it was an "interesting theory".
Jack misrepresented my opinion of Max's theory. I do NOT believe it and have told him so in several private emails.
Gosh Bill, how sweet of you to serve as Mack's mouthpiece.

Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

If Jack's story is not true and Gary wanted to refute it without crossing his self-imposed line of posting on forums, he could provide the best evidence available to Bill Miller and then Bill could report the evidence on its own merits, without resorting to the "Gary said" bastion. I welcome clarifications, and Gary Mack is in a position to provide them at times, but if he is unwilling to do so without using buffers, then he should just let them go. Plenty of misrepresentations are made about Robert Groden, but you don't see him sending out a deniable mouthpiece to defend himself.

Tim

"Gary Dunkle"? Does Mack have an alias Tim?

**********************************************************

""Gary Dunkle"? Does Mack have an alias Tim?"

Dunkle is his actual surname, Myra. German, if I'm not mistaken.

Mack is his alias, or his professional "stage" name.

The spelling is DUNKEL, I think.

Jack

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The program made it appear that Tracy Rowlett, longtime local anchor was doing the program LOCALLY. I did not

hear a mention of Baltimore. If from Baltimore, why was such considered LOCAL news that merited several promos

during the day? I missed the first ten seconds or so of the segment, and may have missed a mention of Baltimore.

It was blown way out of proportion. It was all propaganda.

It was mentioned that Holland was working on a book.

I did not misrepresent Gary's opinion....which was basically NO COMMENT (interesting if true).

No attempt was made to show the readily available Altgens 1963 pole configuration, which obviously was

different.

A rifle bullet striking an aluminum pole would penetrate, not "might make a dent". Aluminum

is a soft metal.

The entire piece repeated several times that Oswald was firing from the sixth floor, and fired the

first shot as JFK was approaching, despite no evidence of such. Propaganda. Also, to fire in that

direction negates the entire "sniper nest" theory, since the gunman would have to face a different

direction.

Gary should not get his shorts all twisted up over such obvious propaganda. He should have at least

shown them the Altgens photo, and there would have been NO STORY.

Jack

Jack, I was curious to find out for myself and these are 10 points Gary made to you concerning your statements ....

1) It was a local story - written, produced, and edited in KTVT's Dallas office..

2) Baltimore wasn't mentioned - I learned that from KTVT. You assumed Max was in town but he wasn't, and the story did not suggest that he was.

3) You assumed in the thread title that Holland was "promoting new book with absurd theory"

4) The story was promoted because the assassination is still a good local story.

5) It was seen by KTVT news personnel as an interesting story with a strong local tie-in.

6) YOU wrote: Gary Mack came on camera and said it was an "interesting theory". I never said any such thing, on or off camera.

7) Rather than look at Altgens, we looked at Dorman and the Secret Service film. The stop light is different, but the pole may not be - it has the same support structure.

8) The "dent" is part of Max's flawed theory, but a dent could be observed IF it were there - that's all I said.

9) All official investigations concluded that Oswald fired from that window. Feel free to disagree.

10) I told KTVT that I thought there was no story. They disagreed.

Edited by Bill Miller
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[...]

Anyhow, if this stupid idea is getting media coverage, just imagine how much press Bugliosi is gonna get. I'm getting sick already.

A ton, from ALL the wrong places...

Re-read MLane's Rush to Judgement, as good today as it was 41 years ago.... I'm sure Bugliosi sighed relief when he knew it was Jerry Spence he'd be dealing with during the Showtime "mock" trial.

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Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

Tim, As I recall ... it was during that time that you were the one who was thinking the sunspots on the wall of the shelter was the "classic gunman". I also recall you thinking that Mack drove some white van, which he did not and that somehow the city of Dallas controlled him, which they do not. Now I do not know the specifics of your conversation with Mack concerning me, but what I post concerning the information I request from Gary most always comes from direct quotes unless I say otherwise. And if I ever got carried away about anything ... it is the way I express my disatisfaction over some of the poor research practices and ridiculous way you jump to conclusions that I have witnessed in your postings.

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Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

Tim, As I recall ... it was during that time that you were the one who was thinking the sunspots on the wall of the shelter was the "classic gunman". I also recall you thinking that Mack drove some white van, which he did not and that somehow the city of Dallas controlled him, which they do not. Now I do not know the specifics of your conversation with Mack concerning me, but what I post concerning the information I request from Gary most always comes from direct quotes unless I say otherwise. And if I ever got carried away about anything ... it is the way I express my disatisfaction over some of the poor research practices and ridiculous way you jump to conclusions that I have witnessed in your postings.

Is this Bill speaking, or Gary speaking thru Bill?

I can't tell anymore.

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Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

Tim, As I recall ... it was during that time that you were the one who was thinking the sunspots on the wall of the shelter was the "classic gunman". I also recall you thinking that Mack drove some white van, which he did not and that somehow the city of Dallas controlled him, which they do not. Now I do not know the specifics of your conversation with Mack concerning me, but what I post concerning the information I request from Gary most always comes from direct quotes unless I say otherwise. And if I ever got carried away about anything ... it is the way I express my disatisfaction over some of the poor research practices and ridiculous way you jump to conclusions that I have witnessed in your postings.

Is this Bill speaking, or Gary speaking thru Bill?

I can't tell anymore.

Myra, the post was me speaking about Tim's past remarks posted on the forum. It would seem to me that if I were quoting Mack ... that I would not only have used quotation marks, but Mack would refer to himself as "I" and not "Mack" as I did. I also cannot imagine Mack saying that he requested information from himself, but rather it would be me who requested information from Gary Mack. I hope the information helps you.

Edited by Bill Miller
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I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.
Tim, As I recall ... it was during that time that you were the one who was thinking the sunspots on the wall of the shelter was the "classic gunman" [bill convinced me that the spot of light that would be in the left arm position remained long after; he did not convince me that there was no Classic Gunman. If he believes that people who research light and shadow in the photos and films deserve ridicule, he needs to include his own belief in Badge Man]. I also recall you thinking that Mack drove some white van [bill can produce the quote in which I ever had Dunkel driving a "van" or admit he's either mistaken or lying now], which he did not and that somehow the city of Dallas controlled him [there are other threads which detail why my evaluation of this holds more water than Bill's], which they do not. Now I do not know the specifics of your conversation with Mack concerning me [my wife does, ask Dunkel], but what I post concerning the information I request from Gary most always comes from direct quotes unless I say otherwise [and Bill's witnesses are whom?]. And if I ever got carried away about anything [as Dunkel said] ... it is the way I express my disatisfaction over some of the poor research practices and ridiculous way you jump to conclusions that I have witnessed in your postings [but it's lying if Bill quotes Dunkel as saying it and Dunkel says he did not].
Is this Bill speaking, or Gary speaking thru Bill? I can't tell anymore.

Myra isn't the only person who has experienced difficulty distinguishing which statements are Miller's and which are Dunkel's. I know, face-to-face, that Dunkel doesn't stand by all of Miller's so-called quotes.

Tim

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Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

Tim, As I recall ... it was during that time that you were the one who was thinking the sunspots on the wall of the shelter was the "classic gunman". I also recall you thinking that Mack drove some white van, which he did not and that somehow the city of Dallas controlled him, which they do not. Now I do not know the specifics of your conversation with Mack concerning me, but what I post concerning the information I request from Gary most always comes from direct quotes unless I say otherwise. And if I ever got carried away about anything ... it is the way I express my disatisfaction over some of the poor research practices and ridiculous way you jump to conclusions that I have witnessed in your postings.

Is this Bill speaking, or Gary speaking thru Bill?

I can't tell anymore.

Myra, the post was me speaking about Tim's past remarks posted on the forum. It would seem to me that if I were quoting Mack ... that I would not only have used quotation marks, but Mack would refer to himself as "I" and not "Mack" as I did. I also cannot imagine Mack saying that he requested information from himself, but rather it would be me who requested information from Gary Mack. I hope the information helps you.

But Bill you didn't use quotation marks in post #21.

So was that Bill talking for Bill?

Or Bill paraphrasing Gary.

Or Bill quoting Gary without the quotation marks that it would seem to you you would use?

Or you quoting Gary who is mimicking Jack?

Or you mimicking Jack?

Or you quoting Tim as quoted to you by Gary.

Or you quoting Gary as quoted to you by Tim.

Or you channeling Gary's energy?

And which Gary?

Mack or Dunkel?

And how is "Dunkel" spelled?

And how is it really pronounced?

And who is speaking for Bill?

Everything gets so goldarn confusing when speaking through intermediaries.

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Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

Tim, As I recall ... it was during that time that you were the one who was thinking the sunspots on the wall of the shelter was the "classic gunman". I also recall you thinking that Mack drove some white van, which he did not and that somehow the city of Dallas controlled him, which they do not. Now I do not know the specifics of your conversation with Mack concerning me, but what I post concerning the information I request from Gary most always comes from direct quotes unless I say otherwise. And if I ever got carried away about anything ... it is the way I express my disatisfaction over some of the poor research practices and ridiculous way you jump to conclusions that I have witnessed in your postings.

Is this Bill speaking, or Gary speaking thru Bill?

I can't tell anymore.

Myra, the post was me speaking about Tim's past remarks posted on the forum. It would seem to me that if I were quoting Mack ... that I would not only have used quotation marks, but Mack would refer to himself as "I" and not "Mack" as I did. I also cannot imagine Mack saying that he requested information from himself, but rather it would be me who requested information from Gary Mack. I hope the information helps you.

But Bill you didn't use quotation marks in post #21.

So was that Bill talking for Bill?

Or Bill paraphrasing Gary.

Or Bill quoting Gary without the quotation marks that it would seem to you you would use?

Or you quoting Gary who is mimicking Jack?

Or you mimicking Jack?

Or you quoting Tim as quoted to you by Gary.

Or you quoting Gary as quoted to you by Tim.

Or you channeling Gary's energy?

And which Gary?

Mack or Dunkel?

And how is "Dunkel" spelled?

And how is it really pronounced?

And who is speaking for Bill?

Everything gets so goldarn confusing when speaking through intermediaries.

Since Gary Mack has become the topic of this thread, I will add a meaningless

tidbit which Gary likely will dispute.

My remembrance is that I once asked him why he chose MACK as his pseudonym

for his radio disk jockey personna. As I remember he said something like it's

short, memorable, and since a large part of our market was truck drivers it

would make them think of MACK TRUCKS, a positive image...and it is more

macho sounding than Dunkel.

OK Gary...now please tell "Miller" the "real story"...so he can relay it to us

and once again prove me wrong.

Jack :o

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Bill Miller serving as Gary Dunkle/Mack's mouthpiece are numerous and ongoing. I have had the experience of asking Gary, to his face and in the presence of my wife, about quotes attributed to him by Bill. He disavowed the wording, if not the substance, alluding to how Bill can get pretty carried away sometimes. Now, in this case, we have Dunkle calling Jack White a xxxx through a deniable third party. That is despicable.

Tim, As I recall ... it was during that time that you were the one who was thinking the sunspots on the wall of the shelter was the "classic gunman". I also recall you thinking that Mack drove some white van, which he did not and that somehow the city of Dallas controlled him, which they do not. Now I do not know the specifics of your conversation with Mack concerning me, but what I post concerning the information I request from Gary most always comes from direct quotes unless I say otherwise. And if I ever got carried away about anything ... it is the way I express my disatisfaction over some of the poor research practices and ridiculous way you jump to conclusions that I have witnessed in your postings.

Is this Bill speaking, or Gary speaking thru Bill?

I can't tell anymore.

Myra, the post was me speaking about Tim's past remarks posted on the forum. It would seem to me that if I were quoting Mack ... that I would not only have used quotation marks, but Mack would refer to himself as "I" and not "Mack" as I did. I also cannot imagine Mack saying that he requested information from himself, but rather it would be me who requested information from Gary Mack. I hope the information helps you.

But Bill you didn't use quotation marks in post #21.

So was that Bill talking for Bill?

Or Bill paraphrasing Gary.

Or Bill quoting Gary without the quotation marks that it would seem to you you would use?

Or you quoting Gary who is mimicking Jack?

Or you mimicking Jack?

Or you quoting Tim as quoted to you by Gary.

Or you quoting Gary as quoted to you by Tim.

Or you channeling Gary's energy?

And which Gary?

Mack or Dunkel?

And how is "Dunkel" spelled?

And how is it really pronounced?

And who is speaking for Bill?

Everything gets so goldarn confusing when speaking through intermediaries.

Since Gary Mack has become the topic of this thread, I will add a meaningless

tidbit which Gary likely will dispute.

My remembrance is that I once asked him why he chose MACK as his pseudonym

for his radio disk jockey personna. As I remember he said something like it's

short, memorable, and since a large part of our market was truck drivers it

would make them think of MACK TRUCKS, a positive image...and it is more

macho sounding than Dunkel.

OK Gary...now please tell "Miller" the "real story"...so he can relay it to us

and once again prove me wrong.

Jack :)

I'm sorry Jack, I simply won't believe that story until I hear it directly from the horse's mouth -- Bill.

:unsure:

(It is pretty friggin' hilarious...)

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