FBI file links Kennedy to Monroe's death

[Sid Walker]

I believe David Talbot's Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years will have some interesting things to say about the death of Monroe.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brothers-Hidden-Hi...1581&sr=1-3

I think the timing of this "news" is to try to discredit Talbot before his book comes out.

And Ray yes Jim Di's article is great.

Dawn

Perhaps John could ask Philippe Mora to join the forum?

It would give Mr Mora a chance to explain how he came to write this 'new' story - and provide him with the opportunity to counter suspicions that he is participating in an orchestrated campaign, wittingly or unwittingly.

[Mark Stapleton]

I believe David Talbot's Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years will have some interesting things to say about the death of Monroe.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brothers-Hidden-Hi...1581&sr=1-3

I think the timing of this "news" is to try to discredit Talbot before his book comes out.

And Ray yes Jim Di's article is great.

Dawn

Perhaps John could ask Philippe Mora to join the forum?

It would give Mr Mora a chance to explain how he came to write this 'new' story - and provide him with the opportunity to counter suspicions that he is participating in an orchestrated campaign, wittingly or unwittingly.

Good suggestion, Sid.

Books implicating the Kennedys in murders suffer a fatal credibility defect--they weren't murderers.

IMDB credits Mora with one 1997 film about a mercenary's mission to free hostages. Mora is art director. It recieved a rating of 3.2/10. I vaguely recollect seeing his byline in the SMH over the years but I can't remember what he wrote about.

Maybe if he joined the Forum we could find out whether his aim was just to make a buck or whether he is the newest recruit in a long running and orchestrated campaign.

Edited March 18, 2007 by Mark Stapleton

[William Kelly]

It seems to me there's a substantial genre of articles, books and suchlike that denigrate the Kennedy brothers and make them out to be gangsters and sex fiends.

Who is behind this and why?

I assume it is organized by the Republican Party. The Kennedys are closely identified with the Democratic Party. It tends to happen when the Republicans are being investigated for corruption. It amazes me that they don't spread some of the true stories about LBJ.

I don't think this is a party matter. Republican politicians nowadays often quote JFK with approval, but seem to think that the less about Johnson the better. No one wants to be reminded of that ugly character, and there is a sizable segment of the journalistic establishment that wishes Robert Caro would stop working on his Johnson biography.

Jim Di Eugenio has an excellent article on the character assassination of the Kennedy brothers that followed their physical assassination, posted here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...amp;#entry61914

Anthony Summers has been a leader in the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers. Since he is a member of this forum, perhaps Mr. Summers will enlighten us on what motivates him. I doubt if loyalty to the Grand Old Party is a consideration in his case.

John, JRC is correct in that the Republican Party, while party to Dirty Tricksters, is not behind this well orchestrated campaign, which began with the "Second Plot" (per Mathew Smith) - to blame the assassination on Castro/RFK, set in motion before the assassination.

What I don't see is "Anthony Summers....a leader in the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers." Can you elaborate on that? Am I missreading Summers?

Thanks,

BK

Edited March 18, 2007 by William Kelly

[Myra Bronstein]

It seems to me there's a substantial genre of articles, books and suchlike that denigrate the Kennedy brothers and make them out to be gangsters and sex fiends.

Who is behind this and why?

I assume it is organized by the Republican Party. The Kennedys are closely identified with the Democratic Party. It tends to happen when the Republicans are being investigated for corruption. It amazes me that they don't spread some of the true stories about LBJ.

I don't think this is a party matter. Republican politicians nowadays often quote JFK with approval, but seem to think that the less about Johnson the better. No one wants to be reminded of that ugly character, and there is a sizable segment of the journalistic establishment that wishes Robert Caro would stop working on his Johnson biography.

Jim Di Eugenio has an excellent article on the character assassination of the Kennedy brothers that followed their physical assassination, posted here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...amp;#entry61914

Anthony Summers has been a leader in the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers. Since he is a member of this forum, perhaps Mr. Summers will enlighten us on what motivates him. I doubt if loyalty to the Grand Old Party is a consideration in his case.

John, JRC is correct in that the Republican Party, while party to Dirty Tricksters, is not behind this well orchestrated campaign, which began with the "Second Plot" (per Mathew Smith) - to blame the assassination on Castro/RFK, set in motion before the assassination.

What I don't see is "Anthony Summers....a leader in the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers." Can you elaborate on that? Am I missreading Summers?

Thanks,

BK

I share your confusion BK.

[Greg Parker]

The level of paranoia and conclusion-jumping in this thread is excruciating to read. A second story in the SMH answers most of the questions posed.

And of what relevance to his credibility is it that Mora is of "Jewish parentage"?

Briefly, at the time he found the document, Mora was researching for a proposed movie to be called Moral Relativity which he describes as a historical thriller.

Since he also does occasional pieces for the SMH, he did what any reporter would do; he filed a story on what he believed was a never-before seen document.

He admits it sounds like the worst tabloid fare. His problem is that despite claiming a lot of experience in document reading, he seems to misunderstand the culture of Hoover's FBI - putting way too much weight on its level of classification and dissemination.

He also gets one or two facts wrong, most notably that RFK gave blanket permission for wiretaps.

Part of the shame of this thread is that it mirrors the disrespect MM had as a human being. Her life and death, it seems is somehow less important than who gets blamed for the latter. This is evidenced by the fact that the SMH story was first linked to in the appropriate subforum, only to be later posted to and discussed in the JFK section.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

What I don't see is "Anthony Summers....a leader in the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers." Can you elaborate on that? Am I missreading Summers?

Thanks,

BK

Have you read Goddess, or Summers's famous new and improved version of the "revelations" of Judith Exner? Have you read the DiEugenio article I posted on this thread?

[Kathleen Collins]

Anthony Summers has been a leader in the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers. Since he is a member of this forum, perhaps Mr. Summers will enlighten us on what motivates him. I doubt if loyalty to the Grand Old Party is a consideration in his case.

Money. And prestige in having written books about the Assassination, Conspiracy, and Monroe, The Goddess.

Kathy

[William Kelly]

What I don't see is "Anthony Summers....a leader in the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers." Can you elaborate on that? Am I missreading Summers?

Thanks,

BK

Have you read Goddess, or Summers's famous new and improved version of the "revelations" of Judith Exner? Have you read the DiEugenio article I posted on this thread?

I'm sure we've learned a lot more about MM and the Kennedys in the two decades since Goddess was published.

Will check on the famous new and improved version of JEX. Can't be that famous.

Have read and re-read Jimmy D's article, and his one paragraph on Summers accepting a particular story JDE doesn't seem to be able to swallow.

Summers is a most discriminating listener, and if he is convinced of a the legitimacy of a particular story, I think it'll hold up to the closest evaluation.

While Holland, Posner, Russo, Corn, Mailer, Waldron et al. may be swayed by money and loyalty to their party line, I believe that Tony Summers, after absorbing the available information, has scruples enough to call it as he sees it.

I still don't see how he is leading the movement to assassinate the characters of the Kennedy brothers.

Those who killed JFK and RFK truely hated and despised them, and didn't need the Republican's dirty tricks or Mockingbird disinformation to persuade them. Those who truely hate and despise them continue to do so today.

BK

[Terry Mauro]

The level of paranoia and conclusion-jumping in this thread is excruciating to read. A second story in the SMH answers most of the questions posed.

And of what relevance to his credibility is it that Mora is of "Jewish parentage"?

Briefly, at the time he found the document, Mora was researching for a proposed movie to be called Moral Relativity which he describes as a historical thriller.

Since he also does occasional pieces for the SMH, he did what any reporter would do; he filed a story on what he believed was a never-before seen document.

He admits it sounds like the worst tabloid fare. His problem is that despite claiming a lot of experience in document reading, he seems to misunderstand the culture of Hoover's FBI - putting way too much weight on its level of classification and dissemination.

He also gets one or two facts wrong, most notably that RFK gave blanket permission for wiretaps.

Part of the shame of this thread is that it mirrors the disrespect MM had as a human being. Her life and death, it seems is somehow less important than who gets blamed for the latter. This is evidenced by the fact that the SMH story was first linked to in the appropriate subforum, only to be later posted to and discussed in the JFK section.

**********************************************************

"Part of the shame of this thread is that it mirrors the disrespect MM had as a human being. Her life and death, it seems is somehow less important than who gets blamed for the latter. This is evidenced by the fact that the SMH story was first linked to in the appropriate subforum, only to be later posted to and discussed in the JFK section."

I couldn't agree with you more. And, after reading about this in the subforum, I've come to the conclusion that anything relevant about MM, as to the person and human being she actually was, will continue to be sacrificed on the altar of sensationalism. For instance, with regard to her unfortunate childhood and humble beginnings, the blatant exploitation of her image by the studios, her attempts to educate herself in her craft and raise herself above the role of a sex goddess, her talent as an actor. These facts and issues seem to no longer apply, as long as this incessant, vulture-like analysis of the forensics report is allowed to overshadow what's left of her memory. And, any attempts to portray her as some kind of modern day Mata Hari are ridiculous. As far as I can see, all we have managed to do is relegate poor Marilyn's memory to the status of a pork-belly commodity.

Elton John had a better grasp of who Marilyn Monroe really was.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Terry Mauro

[Ron Ecker]

I would like to add my two cents to the moralizing here about MM. This forum is about the assassination of JFK. MM is relevant, regardless of whatever else she did in life, insofar as she apparently had affairs with both JFK and RFK, and she may have been murdered as a result. So who was at fault here? Did MM go after these two brothers, or was it the other way around? In any case it is hardly a good reflection on the Kennedys, with JFK known to be a habitual womanizer, yet it is others who are being criticized here for treating MM with disrespect.

I believe it was JFK and RFK whom MM reportedly said treated her like "a piece of meat." So if MM seems to be treated with disrespect in the JFK case, I would like to ask who is ultimately responsible for that.

In discussing JFK, we are talking about an assassinated president. But we are also not, I repeat not, talking about a saint. Had JFK and his brother been just a little more faithful to their wives, MM might have lived to die of old age, with all the respect that she warranted.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I believe it was JFK and RFK whom MM reportedly said treated her like "a piece of meat." So if MM seems to be treated with disrespect in the JFK case, I would like to ask who is ultimately responsible for that.

I never heard MM say anything disrespectful about JFK or RFK. Is the source of MM's "reported" statement one of the discredited sources cited by Anthony Summers?

[Douglas Caddy]

I would like to add my two cents to the moralizing here about MM. This forum is about the assassination of JFK. MM is relevant, regardless of whatever else she did in life, insofar as she apparently had affairs with both JFK and RFK, and she may have been murdered as a result. So who was at fault here? Did MM go after these two brothers, or was it the other way around? In any case it is hardly a good reflection on the Kennedys, with JFK known to be a habitual womanizer, yet it is others who are being criticized here for treating MM with disrespect.

I believe it was JFK and RFK whom MM reportedly said treated her like "a piece of meat." So if MM seems to be treated with disrespect in the JFK case, I would like to ask who is ultimately responsible for that.

In discussing JFK, we are talking about an assassinated president. But we are also not, I repeat not, talking about a saint. Had JFK and his brother been just a little more faithful to their wives, MM might have lived to die of old age, with all the respect that she warranted.

In the mid-1980's I organized a seminar on terrorism under a grant from the Moody Foundation of Galveston, Texas. Among those that I worked with on the seminar was Edward Miller, a former Assistant Director of the FBI. It was Ed who introduced me to Mark Felt. Both Ed and Mark were convicted for 'black bag" jobs that they undertook at the direction of J. Edgar Hoover. President Reagan later pardoned them.

In the course of my working with Ed, he told me that immediately after Marilyn Monroe's death Hoover dispatched him to go to the telephone company, whose office was located in Santa Monica, to retrieve Marilyn Monroe's long-distance telephone records. In those days, he said, the records were maintained by hand by telephone company personnel.

I wonder what the telephone records revealed?

[William Kelly]

I believe it was JFK and RFK whom MM reportedly said treated her like "a piece of meat." So if MM seems to be treated with disrespect in the JFK case, I would like to ask who is ultimately responsible for that.

I never heard MM say anything disrespectful about JFK or RFK. Is the source of MM's "reported" statement one of the discredited sources cited by Anthony Summers?

JRC, I have also now reviewed the Summers take on JCEx and find that he inverviewed her and confirmed her relationships with JFK and Sam G. and that she knew Rosselli and Sinatra. What's the big deal? You don't believe it?

And who are the "discredited sources cited by Anthony Summers?"

Just checking to see if my own scruples are still functioning.

Somebody should do a book on just the Babes of the JFK Assassination - MM, JCEx, Jean Aase, Sylvia Odio, Kathleen Sullivan, Sylvia Duran, Beverly Oliver, Joyce McDonald, Marajen Chinigo,....

BK

[Ron Ecker]

Is the source of MM's "reported" statement one of the discredited sources cited by Anthony Summers?

I don't remember where I read it, but Googling produced the book The Life and Curious Death of Marilyn Monroe by her former husband Robert Slatzer, in which she is quoted as telling one of them (I assume Bobby), "You two have been passing me around like a piece of meat."

Whether she herself said it or not, there would appear to be some truth to the statement.

Book for sale on eBay

Edited March 19, 2007 by Ron Ecker

[Ron Ecker]

Sorry, the link to the book on eBay doesn't work. I have tried twice to edit the URL to no avail.