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Allen W. Dulles


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I thought I had read somewhere that Dulles was in Dallas around the end of October, when he gave a presentation to some Dallas organization then. (John Korienek)

John,

Dulles was in Dallas on the 28th of October. A luncheon was put on at the Baker Hotel where the Dallas Council on World Affairs honored him.

Dulles gave a speech titled, 'The American Intelligence Service - Its Role In Our National Security'.

FWIW.

If I have posted this image before, my apologies. My memory is not what it used to be. Allen Dulles and William Harvey.

James

Hi James,

I wonder if this speech on October 28th was similar to the speech Dulles gave after the assassination at Harvard Law School Forum on December 18th, 1963.

The 56-minute speech is online at Black Op. The program opens with a short introduction by a moderator:

Date: December 13, 1963

Title: "The Role of Intelligence in Policy Making"

Speaker: Allen W. Dulles - Former Director, CIA

Panel: Thomas Schelling - Professor of Economics, Harvard

Milton Katz - Director of International Legal Studies, Harvard Law School

Here is the RealPlayer URL provided by Black Op Radio

http://www.blackopradio.com/black252b.ram

Dulles had just recently published "The Craft of Intelligence.

Peter Fokes

_________________________________________

Peter,

Was Dulles' speech at Harvard given on the 13th or on the 18th of December, 1963?

Thanks,

--Thomas

_________________________________________

I've just had a chance to check the date of the speech (see link to Harvard Law School Forum - Audio Archive below).

Excuse my error. The speech was given on December 13th, 1963, just three weeks after the assassination.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/forum/audio.html

Peter Fokes

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/forum/audio.html

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I thought I had read somewhere that Dulles was in Dallas around the end of October, when he gave a presentation to some Dallas organization then. (John Korienek)

John,

Dulles was in Dallas on the 28th of October. A luncheon was put on at the Baker Hotel where the Dallas Council on World Affairs honored him.

Dulles gave a speech titled, 'The American Intelligence Service - Its Role In Our National Security'.

FWIW.

If I have posted this image before, my apologies. My memory is not what it used to be. Allen Dulles and William Harvey.

James

Hi James,

I wonder if this speech on October 28th was similar to the speech Dulles gave after the assassination at Harvard Law School Forum on December 18th, 1963.

The 56-minute speech is online at Black Op. The program opens with a short introduction by a moderator:

Date: December 13, 1963

Title: "The Role of Intelligence in Policy Making"

Speaker: Allen W. Dulles - Former Director, CIA

Panel: Thomas Schelling - Professor of Economics, Harvard

Milton Katz - Director of International Legal Studies, Harvard Law School

Here is the RealPlayer URL provided by Black Op Radio

http://www.blackopradio.com/black252b.ram

Dulles had just recently published "The Craft of Intelligence.

Peter Fokes

_________________________________________

Peter,

Was Dulles' speech at Harvard given on the 13th or on the 18th of December, 1963?

Thanks,

--Thomas

_________________________________________

I've just had a chance to check the date of the speech (see link to Harvard Law School Forum - Audio Archive below).

Excuse my error. The speech was given on December 13th, 1963, just three weeks after the assassination.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/forum/audio.html

Peter Fokes

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/forum/audio.html

The subject of Allen Dulles in relation to the assassination of President Kennedy has always been a taboo subject, by "mainstream" news, especially in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. There are obvious intertwined events that are rather obvious, namely the fact that both Allen Dulles and Gen. Charles P. Cabell USAF were summarily dismissed by Pres. Kennedy after the debacle at the Bahía de Cochinos aka The Bay of Pigs.

In his 1999 biography [of] Allen Dulles: Master of Spies, author James Srodes wrote about the period after the assassination circa June 1964, when Dulles was persuaded by then Pres. Lyndon Johnson to go to Mississippi in order to convey the President's outrage over the brutal murders of the three civil rights leaders.

Srodes would write.....Dulles was called upon increasingly to appear on television debates on the host of conspiracy theories that challenged the Warren Commission hearings. He joked in private that the conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had known of a number of strange coincidences--- that he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder (on a book tour to promote The Craft of Intelligence); that one of Mary Bancroft's childhood friends had turned out to be a landlady for Marina Oswald, the assassin's Russian-born wife; and that the landlady was a well-known leftist with distant ties to the family of Alger Hiss.....

pages 554-555 Allen Dulles: Master of Spies - Regnery Publishing Co. - 1999.

In light of all that is known 44 years later, I believe Richard Bartholomew's Possible Discovery of an Automobile Used In The Kennedy Assassination, is the most lucid regarding the various historical interweavings of some of the persons and places in the JFK assassination legacy.

Also, I find the Allen Dulles quote regarding JFK [in an interview years later], in which Dulles made a remark to the effect of that Kennedy thought he was a little God particularly illuminating.

Of even more interest to some researchers, is who Dulles met with, and what was discussed, besides his book while he was in Dallas around November 1, 1963.

Edited by Robert Howard
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Robert:

Are there more details about Dulles visit to Dallas? James... can you find pictures of Dulles with LBJ? This would be an amazing link to the bigger fish.

Gene

Gene,

Dulles and LBJ.

James

Gene, I am always in the process of updating and rechecking various names, people and places and, I have had various links and files on Dulles that I, unfortunately no longer have access to. To respond to your question, the best way to access information re Allen Dulles is via the three main biographies of Dulles....

You can also search JFK assassination newgroups via google, that will many times have factual information on Dulles with supporting corroboration [Warren Commission, HSCA etc.]

and websites such as maryferrell.org and McAdams site, although I find McAdams the inversion of the conspiracy crowd. Nevertheless, the site does provide a thorough documentation of sources, which, JFK researchers of both camps agree is very important, when sorting through the maze of the myriad of the history of the Kennedy Assassination.....

I have also decided that this is as good a place as any to place MY top JFK assassination books....which, some will arguably debate, but I will stand by....not necessarily in this order....

Bloody Treason - Noel Twyman

Nemesis: Aristotle Onassis, Jackie O. and the Love Affair that Brought Down the Kennedys - Peter Evans 1

The Man Who Knew Too Much - Dick Russell

Someone Would Have Talked - Larry Hancock [all editions]

A Certain Arrogance: U.S. Intelligence's Manipulation of Religious Groups........George Michael Evica.

Conspiracy in Camelot - Jerome A. Kroth

Destiny Betrayed - Jim DiEugenio

Oswald and the CIA - John Newman

The Last Investigation - Gaeton Fonzi

Deep Politics and the Death of JFK - Peter Dale Scott

Live By The Sword - Gus Russo

All American Mafioso: The Johnny Rosselli Story - Charles Rappleye/Ed Becker

Citizen Hughes - Michael Drosnin

Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time - Carroll Quigley 2

The Man On The Grassy Knoll - John R. Craig/Philip Rogers

The Yankee and Cowboy War- Carl Oglesby

Crossfire:The Plot That Killed Kennedy By Jim Marrs

Oswald in New Orleans - Harold Wiseberg

All Others See: Bibliography Section of Crossfire By Jim Marrs

1. Dont' like the tawdry aspects of this book, but Evans explores an area that is obviously very important

2. Not a JFK assassination book obviously, but mentioned for a reason

Edited by Robert Howard
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Robert:

I am digging into McCloy and Dulles... quite an eye-opener, leading to the elite oil money and Rockefellers. Can you provide me the source of the Dulles interview and quote that "Kennedy thought he was a little god"? I have read it previously, but can't find the context of the statement, and who recorded it.

Thanks, Gene

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Guest Tom Scully

I am so tired of finding the same themes intertwined in my research. I suspect that this pattern could not happen to this degree, or at least not have received as little scrutiny as it has from corporate news media, if the collective political orientation of the American people was not skewed so far to the right.....

From people associated with this little group of "isolationists" in late 1940, we've elected three modern era U.S. presidents, Ford, GHW, and GW Bush, and at the very least, contaminated the Warren Commission and its findings by injecting into it, personalities associated with these people. Did I mention also, that in the midst of it, was the American hero, Charles Lindbergh? Both contestants in the 2003 gubenatorial recall vote in our nation's largest state fell squarely under its shadow. Our establishment's solution is to quietly continue to promote it and publicly continue to distort it or to not talk about it, at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rhodes_Davis

...Sometime after 1925, William Rhodes Davis married his second wife, Marie Marjanna Tomkunas. After Davis's sudden death in August, 1941, M. Marjanna Tomkunas Davis became beneficiary of half of Davis's $5 million estate trust, Davis's longtime, personal secretary, Erna Frieda Wehrle became chairman of Davis's Crusader Petroleum and Davis & Co, Inc., oil companies, and Werner von Clemm became vice-president. Werner von Clemm, while under U.S. Federal indictment in 1942, was said in a complaint received by the U.S. State Department to be linked to a network of Allen Dulles....

http://books.google.com/books?ei=XiwyTLjbLIS8lQeevc2-Cw&ct=result&id=GoGIl_wI_fgC&dq=%22werner+von+clemm%22+chairman&q=%22werner+von+clemm%22+#search_anchor

Edited by Tom Scully
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I thought Allen Dulles was in New York City at the Council on Foreign Relations at the time of the assassination.

Can anyone confirm that or quote what his bios say?

Where was Dulles at 12:30 pm on 11/22/63?

Thanks,

BK

According to Spymaster - Peter Grose

"Allen was flying to his Long Island country home toward noon on Friday, November 22, 1963, after giving an early morning interview in Boston. Arriving at Lloyd Neck for a relaxed weekend, he heard the news that jolted an entire world...."

Interesting, that General Edwin Walker was also on a plane at the time of the assassination.....

In John Newman's JFK and Vietnam, there is a section that concerns Allen Dulles, and an incident related to censored and/or false Order of Battle Reports, that were

painting an overly rosy account of battlefield progress, these reports were largely the result of General Harkins. Many military personnel knew that what was being

sent back to Washington, and, to JFK specifically were false and misleading....

In this instance, Allen Dulles was in Saigon with Karl Bendetsen. Dulles and Bendetsen were "part of a group the Kennedy Administration sent to visit U.S. Forces

around the globe to emphasize the proper military code of conduct."

In other words, they were there to make sure the type of activity that resulted in General Walker being relieved of his command, [distribution of John Birch Society

material, among other things] was not happening in Vietnam, and elsewhere.

There were three military personnel frustrated over their attempts to get some real reports back to Washington, and were, in this case, being stymied by General

Harkins and James Winterbottom.

The three were George Allen, William Benedict and Lou Tixier. While walking through downtown Saigon, Tixier saw an old buddy from his West Point days,

Lt. Colonel Amos Jordan, to make a long story short, Jordan and the three wound up going to visit Bendetson and Dulles, at the Hotel Caravelle, to see if they could

remedy the situation.

The three gave the details of what was happening with the false field reports, with Dulles listening from the bathroom.

Not only did Bendetsen and Dulles not help, they reported what the three had attempted to do to General Harkins!

All of this resulted in Defense Secretary McNamara being kept out of the loop in this critical area, when he visited Vietnam, a short while later.

JFK and Vietnam pages 245-46

Edited by Robert Howard
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I remember in Hankey's Video he made the comment that "certainly Dulles is the one who ties all of these people together" To me? It is an honest no-brainer that Dulles was involved in the hit and to a very large degree to possibly one of the main planners no doubt. I cannot say I've dug up tons of research or evidence but when you look at the high level players, it is not far fetched to go with such a view. Hell I bet if anyone created a JFK Assassination chart with Dulles in the middle, you could connect every player to him somehow.

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Robert:

Are there more details about Dulles visit to Dallas? James... can you find pictures of Dulles with LBJ? This would be an amazing link to the bigger fish.

Gene

Hey there Gene, actually I've finished reading Russ Baker's book about the Bush Family and in the book he speaks about Dulles' visit/s to LBJ (or their friendship, rather) and even has an image of the two together at LBJ's Ranch.

Edited by B. A. Copeland
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  • 2 weeks later...

8. In addition to being in Dallas three weeks before the assassination, Lisa Pease has discovered another curious location for Dulles on the actual day of the assassination. According to notes written on his calendar, Dulles happened to be at "the Farm". You have to know something about CIA shorthand to understand what that means. As Jim Hougan discovered, it can actually refer to two places: the CIA training facility in Camp Peary, Virginia, or Mitch Werbell's sixty acre weapons development laboratory in Georgia. (Hougan, Spooks, p. 29) As Hougan notes, the confusion in the names is deliberate. For Werbell was a wizard in creating lethal weapons to be used in counter-insurgency warfare and assassinations, neither of which the CIA wanted to be openly involved with. In discussing a silencer created by Werbell, Hougan noted the following: that the sound pattern created in Dealey Plaza – with shots heard in two directions – could well have been created by two teams using Werbell's partial directional silencers. (ibid, p. 36) It would be interesting to hear Dulles explain why he was at either place on that day. Especially since he was not employed by the CIA anymore.

Any objective person would admit that this material on Dulles is relevant in evaluating the make-up of the Warren Commission. Especially since he became its most active member. The reader must pose the obvious question: Why did LBJ ask this guy to be on the Commission? To put it another way: If you were Oswald's defense lawyer, would Dulles be on the jury?

(Abridged from my Reclaiming History Review, Pt. 8)

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