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Allen W. Dulles


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Anyone interested in Allen Dulles ought to read the detailed description of my confrontation with him at UCLA in December, 1965. I don't know of anyone else who had an actual "sit-down" with Dulles, as I did, and it is all spelled out in detail in Chapter 2 of BEST EVIDENCE.

DSL

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Guest Tom Scully

....I haven't read that one, but I do know, from having read the autobios of many of the men who were in OSS, that you couldn't just join, you had to be recommended, and you had to pass a series of tests, not just intelligence tests, but tests to see how you would react in certain situations. They say it was very rigiorous but it stretched the limits, physically and mentally.

David Atlee Phillips, who wasn't in OSS, but Army Air Corps, also wrote a recruitment book about the type of men needed for intelligence work, and Ian Fleming once gave a speech on the attributes needed by secret agents in the field.

BK

The book is searchable by word or phrase. I didn't turn up anything relevant from "The Art of War".

Assessment of men: selection of personnel for the Office of Strategic Services

http://books.google.com/books?cd=1&id=3RYNAAAAIAAJ&dq=The+assement+of+men&q=inside

Edited by Tom Scully
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Anyone interested in Allen Dulles ought to read the detailed description of my confrontation with him at UCLA in December, 1965. I don't know of anyone else who had an actual "sit-down" with Dulles, as I did, and it is all spelled out in detail in Chapter 2 of BEST EVIDENCE.

DSL

Hi David,

I read it and it reminded me of a similar sit-down confrontation I had with McGeorge Bundy when he visited a nearby college.

Besides his main speech in an auditorium, it was arranged for Bundy to have sit down Q & A session with local media.

Bundy sat at the end of a conference table and I sat down right next to him. While the questions ranged on various subjects, I brought it around to the Kennedy assassination and asked about the situation in the situation room at the White House. While I didn't know the details then about the reports of "no conspiracy" being radioed to AF1, I did ask some pointed questions and he bristled at some of them, but politely answered.

I no longer think such confrontations are of any value, and while it is a shame Dulles didn't take you up on your offer to meet privately with him, rather than the hard-nosed approach to adversaries, I think there's more to be said to offering a drink and a toast and take the frank, soft approach to get people to talk about their recollections or to think about such things they don't want to think about. You sort of have to smooze them a little to soften them up.

And having dismissed the Kennedy assassination as a topic, it is interesting that the next student's question was about foreign interrogation techniques. The more things change.....

And he didn't want to talk about that either.

I guess since he had his wife with him at the time, it would have been difficult to ask him about Mary Bancroft and the Valkyrie Plot to kill Hilter, huh?

Bill Kelly

Edited by William Kelly
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Anyone interested in Allen Dulles ought to read the detailed description of my confrontation with him at UCLA in December, 1965. I don't know of anyone else who had an actual "sit-down" with Dulles, as I did, and it is all spelled out in detail in Chapter 2 of BEST EVIDENCE.

DSL

Hi David,

I read it and it reminded me of a similar sit-down confrontation I had with McGeorge Bundy when he visited a nearby college.

Besides his main speech in an auditorium, it was arranged for Bundy to have sit down Q & A session with local media.

Bundy sat at the end of a conference table and I sat down right next to him. While the questions ranged on various subjects, I brought it around to the Kennedy assassination and asked about the situation in the situation room at the White House. While I didn't know the details then about the reports of "no conspiracy" being radioed to AF1, I did ask some pointed questions and he bristled at some of them, but politely answered.

I no longer think such confrontations are of any value, and while it is a shame Dulles didn't take you up on your offer to meet privately with him, rather than the hard-nosed approach to adversaries, I think there's more to be said to offering a drink and a toast and take the frank, soft approach to get people to talk about their recollections or to think about such things they don't want to think about. You sort of have to smooze them a little to soften them up.

And having dismissed the Kennedy assassination as a topic, it is interesting that the next student's question was about foreign interrogation techniques. The more things change.....

And he didn't want to talk about that either.

I guess since he had his wife with him at the time, it would have been difficult to ask him about Mary Bancroft and the Valkyrie Plot to kill Hilter, huh?

Bill Kelly

:ph34r:

Edited by Karl Kinaski
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Dulles did NOT meet with LBJ at the LBJ ranch the week before the assassination.

That photograph of Dulles, LBJ, etc. is from the summer of 1960.

DSL

Could some one PLEASE give me a reference: a book, a newspaper date, a web site proving that Allen Dulles met with Lyndon Johnson at his ranch a week before the JFK assassination? You can post it here or perhaps also email it to me at Morrow321@aol.com.

I have heard this story several times and I would like a reference for it. Thank-you.

And yes I do think that Lyndon Johnson and Allen Dulles and the CIA Republicans made a dirty deal to murder John Kennedy. Both parties were active in both the assassination and the cover up, imho. And yes Dulles and McCloy were both high level CFR tools of the Rockefeller family.

From Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, 3rd edition 1998 p. 638-639]:

“The Role of deep-cover CIA officer, Trenton Parker, has been described in earlier pages, and his function in the CIA's counter-intelligence unit, Pegasus. Parker had stated to me earlier that a CIA faction was responsible for the murder of JFK … During an August 21, 1993, conversation, in response to my questions, Parker said that his Pegasus group had tape recordings of plans to assassinate Kennedy. I asked him, "What group were these tapes identifying?" Parker replied: "Rockefeller, Allen Dulles, JOHNSON of Texas, GEORGE BUSH, and J. Edgar Hoover." I asked, "What was the nature of the conversation on these tapes?"

I don't have the tapes now, because all the tape recordings were turned over to [Congressman] Larry McDonald. But I listened to the tape recordings and there were conversations between Rockefeller, [J. Edgar] Hoover, where [Nelson] Rockefeller asks, "Are we going to have any problems?" And he said, "No, we aren't going to have any problems. I checked with Dulles. If they do their job we'll do our job." There are a whole bunch of tapes, because Hoover didn't realize that his phone has been tapped. Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, p. 638-639]:

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Guest Robert Morrow

I think that the Warren Commission should be called the JFK Murderers Commission. Lyndon Johnson (the usurper President), J. Edgar Hoover (FBI), and Allen Dulles (the man who built the CIA, with its tentacles all throughout government), were all hard core into the cover up for the JFK assassination from Day One.

Because all three of these guys were so determined and enthusiastic in covering up an obviously conspiracy murder of John Kennedy (shots in his body from 2 directions, plenty of ear witnesses for a Grassy Knoll shooter, it makes me think that these 3 were ALL PLANNERS AND PLOTTERS OF THE JFK ASSASSINATION ... especially LBJ and Dulles who were doing the dirty work. [LBJ was even micromanaging it: asking/pleading/demanding to John Kennedy to let JACKIE ride in Johnson's Lincoln car ... that is enough evidence to make a citizen's arrest of Johnson on the spot!]

Wasn't Allen Dulles, also, the FIRST member of the Warren Commission picked by Lyndon Johnson? Am I right on that? I agree that the Allen Dulles Commission was the true reality, not the Warren Commission.

Yes, Allen Dulles was super active in public and behind the scenes as he steered the Warren Commission fraud.

HERE IS SOME INFO ON THE ALLEN DULLES TRIP TO SEE HARRY TRUMAN, to get Truman to back off his December 22, 1963 criticism of the out of control CIA:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/29-8 Published on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 by CommonDreams.org

Are Presidents Afraid of the CIA?

by Ray McGovern

In my article of Dec. 22, I referred to Harry Truman's op-ed of exactly 46 years before, titled "Limit CIA Role to Intelligence," in which the former President expressed dismay at what the Central Intelligence Agency had become just 16 years after he and Congress created it.

The Washington Post published the op-ed on December 22, 1963 in its early edition, but immediately excised it from later editions. Other media ignored it. The long hand of the CIA?

Truman wrote that he was "disturbed by the way CIA has been diverted from its original assignment" to keep the President promptly and fully informed and had become "an operational and at times policy-making arm of the government."

The Truman Papers

Documents in the Truman Library show that nine days after Kennedy was assassinated, Truman sketched out in handwritten notes what he wanted to say in the op-ed. He noted, among other things, that the CIA had worked as he intended only "when I had control."

In Truman's view, misuse of the CIA began in February 1953, when his successor, Dwight Eisenhower, named Allen Dulles CIA Director. Dulles' forte was overthrowing governments (in current parlance, "regime change"), and he was quite good at it. With coups in Iran (1953) and Guatemala (1954) under his belt, Dulles was riding high in the late Fifties and moved Cuba to the top of his to-do list.

Accustomed to the carte blanche given him by Eisenhower, Dulles was offended when young President Kennedy came on the scene and had the temerity to ask questions about the Bay of Pigs adventure, which had been set in motion under Eisenhower. When Kennedy made it clear he would NOT approve the use of U.S. combat forces, Dulles reacted with disdain and set out to mousetrap the new President.

Coffee-stained notes handwritten by Allen Dulles were discovered after his death and reported by historian Lucien S. Vandenbroucke. They show how Dulles drew Kennedy into a plan that was virtually certain to require the use of U.S. combat forces. In his notes Dulles explains that, "when the chips were down," the new President would be forced by "the realities of the situation" to give whatever military support was necessary "rather than permit the enterprise to fail."

Additional detail came from a March 2001 conference on the Bay of Pigs, which included CIA operatives, retired military commanders, scholars, and journalists. Daniel Schorr told National Public Radio that he had gained one new perception as a result of the "many hours of talk and heaps of declassified secret documents:"

"It was that the CIA overlords of the invasion, Director Allen Dulles and Deputy Richard Bissell had their own plan on how to bring the United States into the conflict...What they expected was that the invaders would establish a beachhead...and appeal for aid from the United States...

"The assumption was that President Kennedy, who had emphatically banned direct American involvement, would be forced by public opinion to come to the aid of the returning patriots. American forces, probably Marines, would come in to expand the beachhead.

"In fact, President Kennedy was the target of a CIA covert operation that collapsed when the invasion collapsed," added Schorr.

The "enterprise" which Dulles said could not fail was, of course, the overthrow of Fidel Castro. After mounting several failed operations to assassinate him, this time Dulles meant to get his man, with little or no attention to what the Russians might do in reaction. Kennedy stuck to his guns, so to speak; fired Dulles and his co-conspirators a few months after the abortive invasion in April 1961; and told a friend that he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds."

The outrage was mutual, and when Kennedy himself was assassinated on November 22, 1963, it must have occurred to Truman that the disgraced Dulles and his outraged associates might not be above conspiring to get rid of a President they felt was soft on Communism-and, incidentally, get even.

In his op-ed of December 22, 1963 Truman warned: "The most important thing...was to guard against the chance of intelligence being used to influence or to lead the President into unwise decisions." It is a safe bet that Truman had the Bay of Pigs fiasco uppermost in mind.

Truman called outright for CIA's operational duties [to] be terminated or properly used elsewhere." (This is as good a recommendation now as it was then, in my view.)

On December 27, retired Admiral Sidney Souers, whom Truman had appointed to lead his first central intelligence group, sent a "Dear Boss" letter applauding Truman's outspokenness and blaming Dulles for making the CIA "a different animal than I tried to set up for you." Souers specifically lambasted the attempt "to conduct a war' invading Cuba with a handful of men and without air cover."

Souers also lamented the fact that the agency's "principal effort" had evolved into causing "revolutions in smaller countries around the globe," and added:

With so much emphasis on operations, it would not surprise me to find that the matter of collecting and processing intelligence has suffered some."

Clearly, CIA's operational tail was wagging the substantive dog-a serious problem that persists to this day. For example, CIA analysts are super-busy supporting operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan; no one seems to have told them that they need to hazard a guess as to where this is all leading and whether it makes any sense.

That is traditionally done in a National Intelligence Estimate. Can you believe there at this late date there is still no such Estimate? Instead, the President has chosen to rely on he advice of Gen. David Petraeus, who many believe will be Obama's opponent in the 2012 presidential election.

Fox Guarding Henhouse?

In any case, the well-connected Dulles got himself appointed to the Warren Commission and took the lead in shaping the investigation of JFK's assassination. Documents in the Truman Library show that he then mounted a targeted domestic covert action of his own to neutralize any future airing of Truman's and Souers' warnings about covert action.

So important was this to Dulles that he invented a pretext to get himself invited to visit Truman in Independence, Missouri. On the afternoon of April 17, 1964 he spent a half-hour trying to get the former President to retract what he had said in his op-ed. No dice, said Truman.

No problem, thought Dulles. Four days later, in a formal memo for his old buddy Lawrence Houston, CIA General Counsel from 1947 to 1973, Dulles fabricated a private retraction, claiming that Truman told him the Washington Post article was "all wrong," and that Truman "seemed quite astounded at it."

No doubt Dulles thought it might be handy to have such a memo in CIA files, just in case.

A fabricated retraction? It certainly seems so, because Truman did not change his tune. Far from it. In a June 10, 1964 letter to the managing editor of Look magazine, for example, Truman restated his critique of covert action, emphasizing that he never intended the CIA to get involved in "strange activities."

Dulles and Dallas

Dulles could hardly have expected to get Truman to recant publicly. So why was it so important for Dulles to place in CIA files a fabricated retraction. My guess is that in early 1964 he was feeling a good bit of heat from those suggesting the CIA might have been involved somehow in the Kennedy assassination. Indeed, one or two not-yet-intimidated columnists were daring to ask how the truth could ever come out with Allen Dulles on the Warren Commission. Prescient.

Dulles feared, rightly, that Truman's limited-edition op-ed might yet get some ink, and perhaps even airtime, and raise serious questions about covert action. Dulles would have wanted to be in position to flash the Truman "retraction," with the hope that this would nip any serious questioning in the bud. The media had already shown how co-opted-er, I mean "cooperative"-it could be.

As the de facto head of the Warren Commission, Dulles was perfectly positioned to exculpate himself and any of his associates, were any commissioners or investigators-or journalists-tempted to question whether the killing in Dallas might have been a CIA covert action.

Did Allen Dulles and other "cloak-and-dagger" CIA operatives have a hand in killing President Kennedy and then covering it up? The most up-to-date-and, in my view, the best-dissection of the assassination appeared last year in James Douglass' book, JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters . After updating and arraying the abundant evidence, and conducting still more interviews, Douglass concludes the answer is Yes.

Edited by Robert Morrow
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Guest Robert Morrow

THERE'S SPECTER AND DULLES BEHND THE G/K FENCE JULY 1964...AND A FEW OTHERS FOR THE COLLECTORS..B :blink:

Top photo would be David Belin, another Warren Commission con artist, and Allen Dulles

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Posting Harry Holmes backyard pic in front of a picket fence would be timely here. (imo)

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Tom Scully

http://www.google.com/search?q=titan+gustav&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=a4T&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min%3A1943%2Ccd_max%3A1943&tbm=nws&source=hp&q=titan+gustav+jebsen&psj=1&oq=titan+gustav+jebsen&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=30320l36063l0l36154l7l7l0l5l0l0l192l377l0.2l2l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=f33972b6a6e12c80&biw=840&bih=417

World Chemical Cartel Charged

Evening Independent - Jun 28, 1943

... of the Krebs pigment di vision; Titan company Inc., subsidiary of National Lead company, and Gustav Jebsen, vice-president of Titan Company, Inc.

GOVERNMENT AIMS TO SMASH CARTELS;...‎ New York Times ($3.95)

Indict Three Ups, Companies .All...‎ Telegraph-Herald

Three Chemical Firms Indicted .World...‎ Tuscaloosa News

http://www.google.com/search?q=titan+gustav&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=66T&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1949%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1949&tbm=nws&source=hp&q=National+Lead%2C+and+Gustav+Jebsen%2C+vice+president+of+Titan.+%245000+year&psj=1&oq=National+Lead%2C+and+Gustav+Jebsen%2C+vice+president+of+Titan.+%245000+year&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=15786l17895l4l21424l5l5l0l5l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=f33972b6a6e12c80&biw=840&bih=417

$43000 FINES LEVIED IN ANTI-TRUST SUIT

- New York Times - Mar 2, 1949

$5000 each were levied against Fletcher W. Rockwell, formerly president of ... vice )resident of National Lead, and Gustav Jebsen, vice president of Titan.

http://www.google.com/search?q=titan+gustav&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#q=Jebsen+clover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Uoo&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&source=lnt&sa=X&psj=1&ei=4pqvTqfeOsKltwfM_cn9AQ&ved=0CBEQpwUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=f33972b6a6e12c80&biw=840&bih=417

Clover Todd Dulles Wed to Jens H. Jebsen In Chaped of Fifth...

- New York Times - Apr 22, 1951

... Miss Clover Todd Dulles, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Allen Welsh Dulles of 239 East Sixty-first Street, was married to Jens Henrik Jebsen of..

http://www.google.com/search?q=titan+gustav&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#q=Jebsen+clover&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Uoo&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&source=lnt&sa=X&psj=1&ei=4pqvTqfeOsKltwfM_cn9AQ&ved=0CBEQpwUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=f33972b6a6e12c80&biw=840&bih=417

6301243435_30b9d21c43_b.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/20/obituaries/jens-h-jebsen.html

July 20, 1984

JENS H. JEBSEN

Jens H. Jebsen, a former international banking executive, died of a heart attack Saturday while playing tennis in Cold Spring Harbor, L.I., where he lived. He was 62 years old.

Mr. Jebsen retired in 1981 as a vice president of the Bankers Trust Company. He was previously chief executive officer of Bankers Trust in Zurich, a vice president of the Lambert International Corporation and an assistant vice president in London of the Manufacturers Hanover Trust Company. He was born in Oslo and was a graduate of Princeton University.

He is survived by his wife, the former Clover Dulles; two daughters, Clover, of Benin, Africa,....

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=24800881

Clover Dulles Jebsen (1922 - 1994) - Find A Grave Memorial

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=9068853

Clover Todd Dulles (1894 - 1974) - Find A Grave Memorial

http://www.worldcat.org/title/papers-1918-1971-inclusive/oclc/122372955

Papers, 1918-1971 Clover Todd Dulles (inclusive)

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  • 5 weeks later...
Guest Robert Morrow

From the book: Nemesis: The True Story of Aristotle Onassis, Jackie O, and the Love Triangle That Brought Down the Kennedys by Peter Evans - Page 138

Jackie Kennedy's mother Janet Auchincloss confronts Allen Dulles at 1964 dinner party:

"At the end of his testimony to the Warren Commisssion, de Mohrenschildt had received an extraordinary invitation from, as he put it in the book he was writing at the time of his death in 1977, “Jacqueline Kennedy’s mother and her stepfather, Mr Hugh Auchincloss,” to dine at their home in Georgetown. Apart from the Auchinclosses and de Mohrenschildt's wife, Jeanne, the only other known guest was the former CIA chief Allen Dulles.

They talked about the assassination; at one point, Janet Auchincloss wept and embraced Jeanne de Mohrenschildt; later Dulles asked him a few astute questions about Lee (Harvey Oswald).” But as he was leaving that evening, Janet dropped her hostess’s charm and told him coldly: “Incidentally, my daughter Jacqueline never wants to see you again because you were close to her husband’s assassin.”

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  • 5 months later...
Guest Tom Scully

http://www.google.co...biw=840&bih=417

World Chemical Cartel Charged

Evening Independent - Jun 28, 1943

... of the Krebs pigment di vision; Titan company Inc., subsidiary of National Lead company, and Gustav Jebsen, vice-president of Titan Company, Inc.

GOVERNMENT AIMS TO SMASH CARTELS;...‎ New York Times ($3.95)

Indict Three Ups, Companies .All...‎ Telegraph-Herald

Three Chemical Firms Indicted .World...‎ Tuscaloosa News

http://www.google.co...biw=840&bih=417

$43000 FINES LEVIED IN ANTI-TRUST SUIT

- New York Times - Mar 2, 1949

$5000 each were levied against Fletcher W. Rockwell, formerly president of ... vice )resident of National Lead, and Gustav Jebsen, vice president of Titan.

http://www.google.co...biw=840&bih=417

Clover Todd Dulles Wed to Jens H. Jebsen In Chaped of Fifth...

- New York Times - Apr 22, 1951

... Miss Clover Todd Dulles, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Allen Welsh Dulles of 239 East Sixty-first Street, was married to Jens Henrik Jebsen of..

http://www.google.co...biw=840&bih=417

6301243435_30b9d21c43_b.jpg

http://www.nytimes.c...s-h-jebsen.html

July 20, 1984

JENS H. JEBSEN

Jens H. Jebsen, a former international banking executive, died of a heart attack Saturday while playing tennis in Cold Spring Harbor, L.I., where he lived. He was 62 years old.

Mr. Jebsen retired in 1981 as a vice president of the Bankers Trust Company. He was previously chief executive officer of Bankers Trust in Zurich, a vice president of the Lambert International Corporation and an assistant vice president in London of the Manufacturers Hanover Trust Company. He was born in Oslo and was a graduate of Princeton University.

He is survived by his wife, the former Clover Dulles; two daughters, Clover, of Benin, Africa,....

http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=24800881

Clover Dulles Jebsen (1922 - 1994) - Find A Grave Memorial

http://www.findagrav...gr&GRid=9068853

Clover Todd Dulles (1894 - 1974) - Find A Grave Memorial

http://www.worldcat..../oclc/122372955

Papers, 1918-1971 Clover Todd Dulles (inclusive)

Prying it open, dusting it off.....

Click on the wedding article image above. Note who Clover Dulles's maid of honor was (her cousin).

Here is Clover's cousin's obit.:

http://www.nytimes.c...iott.html?fta=y

December 6, 2006

Eleanor Thomas Elliott, Barnard Figure, Dies at 80

By THE NEW YORK TIMES

Eleanor Thomas Elliott, an advocate for women’s rights who successfully fought Columbia University’s attempt to take over Barnard College in the early 1970s, died Sunday in Valhalla, N.Y. She was 80 and lived in Cross River, N.Y.

The cause was injuries from a car accident, said her brother-in-law, Osborn Elliott, the former editor of Newsweek and a former dean of the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism.

Ms. Elliott was chairwoman of the board at Barnard when she helped organize administrators, faculty members and students there to oppose a Columbia merger. “If she hadn’t held the line, it might well have gone the other way,” said Helene Kaplan, a board member at the time and its chairwoman in the 1980s. “Elly believed that Barnard offered something special for young women that could not be duplicated in a merged institution.”

Barnard, a women’s college, is affiliated with its neighbor Columbia in Manhattan but maintains its independence.

Ms. Elliott led the Barnard board from 1973 to 1976. She was also a former board member of the National Organization for Women’s Legal Defense and Education Fund. During the Reagan administration, she served on the National Advisory Council on Women’s Educational Programs. “She was a bridge for feminism into many traditional places,” said the feminist leader Gloria Steinem, a friend.

In the early 1990s, Ms. Elliott was chairwoman of the Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship Foundation in Princeton, N.J., which promotes excellence in teaching, the humanities and women’s studies.

Eleanor Lansing Thomas Elliott was born in Manhattan on April 26, 1926. She graduated from Barnard in 1948 and became a writer and editor at Vogue magazine. Her husband of 48 years, John Elliott Jr., known as Jock, a former chairman of Ogilvy & Mather, the advertising firm, died last year. They had no children.

Cousin Eleanor had a brother, cousin James Augustus Thomas, Jr.:

http://www.ampltd.co...shers note.aspx

....James Augustus Thomas was born in Lawsonville, Rockingham County, North Carolina, on 6 March 1862. He was the son of Henry Evans Thomas and Cornelia Carolina (Jones) Thomas. He attended the Eastman National Business College, Poughkeepsie, New York, and graduated in 1881. He married Anna, daughter of William Branson of Durham, North Carolina, on 27 April 1918. Unfortunately she died in November 1918. J A Thomas remarried on 21 November 1922 to Dorothy Quincy Hancock, daughter of Sheridan Pitt Read. They had two children: James Augustus Thomas jr and Eleanor Lansing Thomas.

Thomas was director of the British-American Tobacco Company Ltd and the British Cigarette Company, and was chairman of Mustard and Company Ltd from 1905 until his retirement in 1922. Between 1888 and 1923 he pioneered the introduction of American cigarettes into Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand, India, Japan, China and other Asian countries.

Thomas spent a significant part of his life in China. Initially his interest in China was mainly commercial. However, he soon became involved in a number of projects which broadened his interest and influence in China. For instance, he organised the Chinese-American Bank of Commerce, founded two schools for the Chinese, and played an active role in the Chinese Red Cross. He was also Chairman of China Child Welfare Inc; Treasurer of China Famine Relief USA Inc; Director of the China Society of America; and an Executive Committee Member of the American Asiatic Society. He was the author of A Pioneer Tobacco Merchant in the Orient (1928) and Trailing Trade a Million Miles (1931). In recognition for his services to China he was made a Crystal Button Mandarin by the Empress Dowager of China in 1905, and was decorated with the 6th and 3rd classes Order of the Golden Harvest and with the Order of the Jade, Red Cravat with White & Blue Borders (China) in 1937. He was also decorated by the Dalai Lama. He died on 10 September 1940.

The Papers of J A Thomas are an important source for scholars exploring American, British and Chinese relations from 1900 to 1923. They provide a mine of information concerning business, education, agriculture, legal systems, medicine and cultural affairs in China. There is also much information on Japan, Korea and Taiwan.

http://www.nytimes.c...s-amy-geer.html

William Stewart Weds Amy Geer Published: September 30, 1990

Montrey Amy Geer, an investment banking consultant, and William Hadden Stewart, the editor of Eastern Europe Times, a daily business and financial newsletter, both in Washington, were married yesterday at St. James's Episcopal Church in Monkton, Md., by the Rev. Heyward H. Macdonald.

Mrs. Stewart, who is known as Amy, is a daughter of Gwendolyn A. Geer of Norrisville, Md., and the late Olen S. Geer. She received a bachelor's degree and a master's in economics from the University of Mississippi.

The bridegroom is a son of Susan Norton Thomas of Locust Valley, L.I., and the late William Stewart. He is a graduate of St. Paul's School in Concord, N.H., and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He has a master's degree in international affairs from Columbia University. His mother retired as a kindergarten teacher at the Green Vale School in Old Brookville, L.I. His father was an executive with MorMac Marine Resources, a shipping company in Stamford, Conn. The bridegroom is a grandson of the late Skeffington S. Norton, who was for many years the chairman of the Norton Lilly shipping company in New York.

http://boards.ancest...1/mb.ashx?pnt=1

Source: Berkshire Eagle

Friday, March 24, 2000

James Thomas Jr.

BECKET -- James A. Thomas Jr., 76, of Becket died Tuesday afternoon at Laurel Lake Center for Health and Rehabilitation in Lee.

Born in New York City on Dec. 9, 1923, son of James Augustus and Dorothy Quincy Read Thomas, he was a 1941 graduate of Deerfield Academy. He received his bachelor of arts degree in 1945 from Yale University and his law degree from Yale Law School in 1948.

He had resided in Becket since 1984.

He leaves his wife, the former Susan Norton; three sons, James Thomas of New York City, Ranald M. Thomas of Minneapolis, and Skeff Thomas of Pitman, N.J.; four daughters, Cameron Thomas of Lexington, Augusta Thomas of Cambridge, and Eleanor Thomas and Dorothy Thomas, both of New York City; two stepsons, William H. Stewart of Washington, and Douglas Stewart of Louisville, Colo.; a stepdaughter, Penelope Eagan of Sun Valley, Idaho; a sister, Eleanor T. Elliott of New York City, and 15 grandchildren.

Paid Death Notice: THOMAS -- Susan Norton Published: March 23, 2005

THOMAS -- Susan Norton. Formerly of Locust Valley, NY, and of late Lee, MA., died peacefully on March, 20, 2005, after suffering Alzheimer's disease. Wife of the late James A. Thomas Jr., and loving mother of five children, five stepchildren and 16 grandchildren combined. Dedicated, creative kindergarten teacher at Green Vale School for over twenty years. Laid to rest in Locust Valley Cemetery. Services April 9 at 2 P.M. at Trinity Church, Lenox, MA. ...

Jul. 26, 2002 - 7 WOOD LANE 11560 - Newsday.com

longisland.newsday.com/realestate/sales_detail.php?id=904027

Seller: ELEANOR THOMAS. Buyer: HULL, ELLEN, 7 WOOD LANE, LATTINGTOWN, NY. School District: Locust Valley. Village: Lattingtown. County: Nassau

...And he is boring us with all these dry, genealogical details because.....

The last person to see Stuart H. Johnson, his dinner guest, alive, was :

STUART JOHNSON ! DIES AFTER FALL; -inancier Had Opened Home...

New York Times - Mar 31, 1969

.... Mr. Johnson's daughter, Mrs. Priscilla Johnson MacMillan, a Russian scholar ......

Fell Leaving House A. widower who lived alone he had dined last night at the home of Mr. and Mrs. James A. Thomas at 7 Wood Lane, in neighboring Locust .....

94 WILL BE HONORED AT JUNIOR ASSEMBLY; Oldest of ...

New York Times - Dec 19, 1943

... Miss Charlotte A. Hubbard; Mrs. Stuart H. Johnson, Miss Eunice C. Johnson; Mrs. ... Mrs. James Augustus Thomas, Miss Eleanor Lansing Thomas; Mrs. Ralph ...

Original Research in this post Copyright 2012 TJ Scully -

The original research displayed is the description of the familial relationship of former CIA director Allen Dulles and his immediate family to members of the James Augustus Thomas family, and the fact that James Augustus Thomas, Jr. was the last person to see his friend, Stuart H. Johnson, Sr., the father of Priscilla Johnson, alive.

Edited by Tom Scully
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It might be interesting to know Jebsen seniors history because he would have been at military age during the second world war and the position in society of people was often defined by their status during the war. Anyway that and other reasons may be explored if one could find out more.

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Guest Tom Scully

John, I posted what I could find on Jebsen, typical connected, banker background, born in Oslo.....I spent some time on him and I found his father more interesting.:

$43000 FINES LEVIED IN ANTI-TRUST SUIT

New York Times - Mar 2, 1949

$5000 each were levied against Fletcher W. Rockwell, formerly president of National ... vice )resident of National Lead, and Gustav Jebsen, vice president of Titan. ... was a $5000 fine and for the individuals a similar fine or a year in jail or both...

.....................................................................................................................................................

Now, we know because Dulles's daughter. Clover, was close enough to this cousin to choose her to be matron of honor in her wedding, that the mother of Eleanor Lansing Thomas, as well as Elearnor's brother James, the last person to see Priscilla Johnson's father, Stuart alive, could not accurately be described as a "distant" relative, but here it is:

John Foster Dulles Oral History Collection http://microformguides.gale.com/BrowseGuide.asp?colldocid=8284000&Page=33&Item=

Thomas, Dorothy Quincy Hancock (Mrs. James A. Thomas) - Personal friend and distant relative of the Dulles family.

JFD in the early twentieth century; a trip on the Menemsha; New Year's Eve parties; Paris trip with the Dulleses; the Dulles family and background. [RDC]; 27 pages. 1966. Open; Transcript No. 257.

Reel: 12

How many people with this sort of Jean LeGon background are going to turn up in this investigation? What are the odds of so many of these people being connected in one way or another to investigation of Oswald and of the people connected to him or presenting him for "history"?

The mother of the man who was the last person to see Priscilla Johnson's father alive, a cousin of Allen Dulles :

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/05/obituaries/dorothy-read-thomas.html

DOROTHY READ THOMAS

Published: October 05, 1987

Dorothy Read Thomas, the widow of James A. Thomas, the tobacco company executive, died Friday of cardiac arrest. She was 96 years old and lived in Manhattan.

Mrs. Thomas was born in Boulogne, France. She spent the first 10 years of her life in Tientsin, China, where her father, Sheridan Pitt Read, was the American consul general.

She did not attend college but instead traveled to Russia, where she taught English in Leningrad for five years. In 1917 she fled the Russian Revolution by traveling across Siberia on the Trans-Siberian Railway.

In 1920 she became the social secretary of Charles R. Crane, an envoy to China, and returned to that country for several years.

She married Mr. Thomas, who headed the Far East division of the British American Tobacco Company, in 1922. He died in 1940.

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Mrs. Thomas was a member of the Colony Club, the Colonial Dames of New York and a board member of the China Institute in America.

She is survived by a son, James A. Thomas Jr. of Becket, Mass.; a daughter, Eleanor Elliot of Manhattan, and seven grandchildren.

http://www.inthefirstperson.com/firp/firp.detail.documents.aspx?documentcode=OHI0019237-14680

Title: Reminiscences of Dorothy Read Thomas RLIN number: NXCP88-A14 Document type: Oral history Accessibility: Free Only Repository: Columbia University. Oral History Research Office Collection: Individual Interview List Oral History Project Description: Family background; early childhood in China, Boxer Rebellion, 1900; San Francisco earthquake and fire, 1905; education in France, women's suffrage movement in England; Russia during World War I and revolution; translator for United States military intelligence; social life in Washington, D.C.; social secretary, American Legation in Peking in the 1920s; marriage; recollections of Mr. and Mrs. Robert Lansing and Mr. and Mrs. John Foster.

.............

And then, there is this? Was the first wife of James A. Thomas, Jr., the grandadughter of the Ramand Macdonaled?

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/22/style/lisa-a-schubert-james-thomas-3d-exchange-vows.html

.....Mr. Thomas, a graduate of the Brooks School and the University of California at Santa Barbara, is an artist who works with the registrar's department of the Museum of Modern Art. He is also a drummer with the Ordinaires, a musical group. His mother is director of development at the Portledge School in Locust Valley. His father is a business consultant in New York.

The bridegroom is a grandson of Mr. and Mrs. Ranald H. Macdonald of New York. Mr. Macdonald is a former partner in Dominick & Dominick, an investment banking and brokerage firm, and a former governor of the New York Stock Exchange. The bridegroom's grandmother Anne T. Macdonald is the founder and honorary chairman of Recording for the Blind. He is also a grandson of Mrs. James A. Thomas of New York, whose late husband was a director of the British-American Tobacco Company and a benefactor of Duke University.

http://www.jai2.com/RM.htm AND

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranald_MacDonald

Ranald MacDonald (3 February 1824 – August 24, 1894) was the first man to teach the English language in Japan, including educating Einosuke Moriyama, one of the chief interpreters to handle the negotiations between Commodore Perry and the Tokugawa Shogunate.

......

....MacDonald was born at Fort Astoria, in the Pacific Northwest of North America. The area was then known as the Columbia District or Oregon Country, disputed territory dominated by the British Hudson's Bay Company and the American Pacific Fur Company. MacDonald's father was Archibald McDonald, a Scottish Hudson's Bay Company fur trader, and his mother was Raven (also known as Princess Sunday), a Chinook Indian, daughter of Chief Comcomly, a leader of Chinook people from the Cascade Mountains and Cape Disappointment. This mixed heritage made MacDonald a Métis, a person who straddles two cultures....

We should not forget that Priscilla Johnson was also a neighbor of and in contact with both Trubee Davison and Cord Meyer, or that the CIA seemed to have manufactured an altered identity for her.:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKjohnsonPR.htm

Priscilla Livingston Johnson was born in Glen Cove, New York, on 19th July, 1928.

....Priscilla Johnson returned to the United States in April 1957. The CIA continued to take an interest in Johnson. In a CIA document dated 23rd August, 1957, Johnson was described as being born in Stockholm, Sweden, on 23rd September 1922. It also stated that during the Second World War she was "utilized by OSO (Office of Special Operations) in 1943 and 1944". John M. Newman has speculated that Johnson was being given a cover story of someone who had a "good security record".....

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Guest Tom Scully

That's it, Jim? That is your reaction to the presentation of a strong link between the Allen Dulles and Stuart H. Johnson families; proof of an awareness of daughter Priscilla Johnson by the grandson of Allen Dulles's mother's first cousin?

You're a historian and a longtime JFK Assassination researcher and author. You of all people, know how difficult this work is, especially as time passes and we are left with records and no first person, living guides.

There is not going to be a photo of Allen Dulles and Priscilla Johnson's father, Stuart, embracing, wearing matching bowling shirts. This may be as good as it gets, and IMO, it is good. You could have said so.

MRS. RH NORWEB LUNCHEON HOSTESS; She and Her Husband ...

New York Times - Feb 3, 1939

... New York Times - Feb 3, 1939

Mr. and Mrs. James A. Thomas gave a dinner in their suite at the Ambassador for Nelson T. Johnson, United States Ambassador to China, and Mrs. Johnson, , who will leave soon for their home in Cody, Wyo. Other guests were Mr. and Mrs. Allen W. Dulles, Mr, ....

I apologize for my cranky tone, but I am in my fourth year on this forum, and still cannot accept that a presentation with little promise of developing significance can "suck in" 500 posts, while presentations of details that are promising and need to be pursued further, such as this one, might as well be scratched into a random sidewalk with a stick of chalk.

The guy who fed Stuart H. Johnson his last meal was the grandson of Sheridan Pitt Read(e), Jr. Sheridan's father was a CSA Colonel, killed in the Civil War in 1862 and buried in Tennessee.

Sheridan's father was the grandson of Ezra Read(e), and the sister of Eliza J. Read(e) McFerson, mother of Mary Poste McPherson, who was the wife of John Watson Foster.

I've presented proof that these cousins remained so close over nearly a century that Dulles's daughter, Clover, selected the sister of Stuart H. Johnson's last meal host, Eleanor Lansing Thomas, to be the maid of honor in her wedding. Do you suppose young Clover went out into the world to seek out and pursue a frinedship with cousin Eleanor? No, it happened through the initiative of Allen Dulles, his brother, and their mother.

Here are the genealogical links.:

June 8, 1941

PriscillaJohnsonDullesMotherObitJune8_1941NyTimes.jpg

John and Allen Dulles's mother Edith F. Foster.:

Lineage book - National Society of the Daughters of the American ... - Google Books Result

books.google.com/books?id=DmoZAQAAIAAJ...Daughters of the American Revolution - 1902 - Genealogy

Daughter of John W. Foster and Mary Parke McFerson, his wife. Granddaughter of Alexander McFerson and Eliza J. Read, his wife. Gr.-granddaughter of Ezra ...

http://freepages.gen...pharos_1893.htm

4/10/1893

Read, Mr Sheridan P

Of NY newly nominated consul to Tien Tsin China in a nephew of Hon. Burleigh CD Read of city. Mr Read is the son Col Sheridan P Read of IL[

http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=26150645

Ezra Read

Family links:

Spouses:

Nancy Clark Read (1782 - 1824)

Sarah Luce Read (1803 - 1872)

Children:

Nathaniel C Read (1810 - 1853)*

Ezra Read (1811 - 1877)*

Amasa Read (1814 - 1849)*

Eliza J Read McFerson (1818 - 1913)* (John W. Foster's wife's mother)

Abner Read (1821 - 1863)*

Edward W H Read (1826 - 1855)*

Sheridan P. Read (1830 - 1862)* (Sheridan P. Read, Jr.'s father. Sheridan, Jr.'s daughter, Dorothy QH Read Thomas, was the mother of Clover Dulles's maid of honor, and of Stuart H. johnson's last meal host, James Augustus Thomas, Jr. of Locust Valley, L.I.)

Reid Read (1831 - 1831)*

Edwin W H Read (1835 - 1875)*

Burleigh Clark Douglas Read (1845 - 1905)*

http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=26058969

Eliza J. Read McFerson, grandmother of Allen Dulles's mother, great aunt of the host of Stuart H. Johnson's last meal in 1969.

Other recent posts on this topic:

http://educationforu...showtopic=19103

http://educationforu...=30#entry252523

BTW, Priscilla Johnson's mother's side of her family was off the wall, I'll post about it in her thread.

Edited by Tom Scully
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