Bill Grote Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [...] I would estimate the "Head" (behind the fence--T.G.) to be at about 12ft high [...] _________________________ Why? Because of "the-head-is-too-small-perspective wise to-have-been-about-six-feet-off-the-ground" argument? --Thomas _________________________ Why? Easy..2ftx6ft = 12ft where I come from Thomas, it's no great science, honestly. If I had twelve fingers or an abacus i'd show you the calculation in simpler terms. Duncan Could the lighted area in the image attached represent something? -- Bill Grote Here's an arrow to help you find it -- in case it can't be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Grote Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [...] I would estimate the "Head" (behind the fence--T.G.) to be at about 12ft high [...] _________________________ Why? Because of "the-head-is-too-small-perspective wise to-have-been-about-six-feet-off-the-ground" argument? --Thomas _________________________ Why? Easy..2ftx6ft = 12ft where I come from Thomas, it's no great science, honestly. If I had twelve fingers or an abacus i'd show you the calculation in simpler terms. Duncan Could the lighted area in the image attached represent something? -- Bill Grote Here's an arrow to help you find it -- in case it can't be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Grote Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 [...] I would estimate the "Head" (behind the fence--T.G.) to be at about 12ft high [...] _________________________ Why? Because of "the-head-is-too-small-perspective wise to-have-been-about-six-feet-off-the-ground" argument? --Thomas _________________________ Why? Easy..2ftx6ft = 12ft where I come from Thomas, it's no great science, honestly. If I had twelve fingers or an abacus i'd show you the calculation in simpler terms. Duncan Could the lighted area in the image attached represent something? -- Bill Grote Here's an arrow to help you find it -- in case it can't be seen. Sorry, I must be retarded today. Can't seem to upload this image. On the left hand side of the fence there appears to be a figure above the three men. The figure has a hat of some kind and some kind of rod in the hand. Or else this is the product of an over-active imagination. I've lightened the area but you have to zoom in to really see it. The "head" size looks proportional to the men -- but I am no expert on this. -- Bill Grote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eugene B. Connolly Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 (edited) Looks good Eugene, question ,should there not be some blood spray being seen..? Bernice, Errrr...umm...mmmm.....ahem...... The answer is no. No blood spray - mainly because the fatal headshot has not yet been fired. Sorry. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eugene, From many witness reports, as he was hit in the head he began to fall to his left....instantly.. ""As I snapped the picture of President Kennedy, I heard a shot ring out. President Kennedy kind of slumped over. " The words here are "As I."...not "After I".. In Moorman we see he is beginning to do so....how many microseconds did it take for that bullet to reach his head..? VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Mary Ann Moorman, Address: 2832 Ripplewood, Dallas. Age 31, Phone No. DA 1-9390. Deposes and says Mrs. Jean Hill and I were standing on the grass by the park on Elm Street between the underpass and the corner of Elm & Houston. I had a Polaroid Camera [sic] with me and was intending to take pictures of President Kennedy and the motorcade. As the motorcade started toward me I took two pictures. As President Kennedy was opposite me I took a picture of him. As I snapped the picture of President Kennedy, I heard a shot ring out. President Kennedy kind of slumped over. Then I heard another shot ring out and Mrs. Kennedy jumped up in the car and said, "My God he had been shot." When I heard these shots ring out, I fell to the ground to keep from being hit myself. I heard three or four shots in all. After the pictures I took were developed, the Picture [sic] of President Kennedy showed him slumped over. When the pictures were developed, they came out real light. These pictures have been turned over to Officers [sic] investigating this incident. /s/ Mary Ann Moorman Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963 /s/ Aleen Davis Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry also.........To each their own beliefs, or whatever they think at this time, there are other opinions, as well as yours.. No need for any errs.... umms..... hmmms..... or ahems.... B. Looks good Eugene, question ,should there not be some blood spray being seen..? Bernice, Errrr...umm...mmmm.....ahem...... The answer is no. No blood spray - mainly because the fatal headshot has not yet been fired. Sorry. EBC Bernice, Apologies are in order (from me). I have read up on the Moorman image and it seems that President Kennedy has already been hit in the Moorman image but the blood spray halo spattering effect has not yet happened. It seems Moorman captured the event at the exact second the bullet hit President Kennedy. Sorry for the confusion. As Confucius say: "He who talk through hat must have eyes in back of head." Errrr...umm...mmmm.....ahem..... OUCH!!!! Best regards, Eugene Edited April 24, 2007 by Eugene B. Connolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Grote Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 [ Sorry, I must be retarded today. Can't seem to upload this image. On the left hand side of the fence there appears to be a figure above the three men. The figure has a hat of some kind and some kind of rod in the hand. Or else this is the product of an over-active imagination. I've lightened the area but you have to zoom in to really see it. The "head" size looks proportional to the men -- but I am no expert on this. -- Bill Grote Hi Bill..Is this what you see? Duncan Hi Duncan, Yes, it was the one one the left which I was able to lighten in the square and you were able to bring out much better. The one to the left of the three men. There really seems to be something there in the image. Looks like someone wearing some kind of hat. Thank you for bringing it out. So you must see something there also. Didn't the man in the front of the group of three (the one holding the camera) say that he heard a bullet go by his ear? -- Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Grote Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi Duncan,Yes, it was the one one the left which I was able to lighten in the square and you were able to bring out much better. The one to the left of the three men. There really seems to be something there in the image. Looks like someone wearing some kind of hat. Thank you for bringing it out. So you must see something there also. Didn't the man in the front of the group of three (the one holding the camera) say that he heard a bullet go by his ear? -- Bill I've been pushing this possible shooter since 2002, but very few people seem interested in it as a reality. Duncan Hi Duncan, What about the great photo inspector Jack White? He seems to have a good eye for detail. Does he not notice this image? Or is it that we both see something that appears to be a person but in reality is something else? -- Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Sorry, I must be retarded today. Can't seem to upload this image. On the left hand side of the fence there appears to be a figure above the three men. The figure has a hat of some kind and some kind of rod in the hand. Or else this is the product of an over-active imagination. I've lightened the area but you have to zoom in to really see it. The "head" size looks proportional to the men -- but I am no expert on this. Hi Bill..Is this what you see? Duncan Duncan, Robin, Chris, Bernice, Jack, et al., -- HELP NEEDED: From the position of the figure as seen here, would a person at that position see the silhouette line of, the front of or the rear of the Turnpike sign? Thanks! Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi Duncan,What about the great photo inspector Jack White? He seems to have a good eye for detail. Does he not notice this image? Or is it that we both see something that appears to be a person but in reality is something else? -- Bill Hi again Bill I believe Jack has the same opinion as Bill Miller that this figure is cut at the fence by the Dallas skyline. I don't believe this to be the case. I don't know what Jack's current view is. Bill Miller calls my figure " The Foating Torso " as he says the figure is too high in the air. In my opinion, that's total nonsense. The fence is approximately 5ft high at the back end of the fence. Rick Janowitz took some photographs for me from the Moorman position in 2003 ( which I no longer have ). A 6ft friend of Rick's stood in my shooters position, and guess what?..an almost instant match. What appears to be skyline is in my opinion an artifact in that area of the degraded Moorman polaroid. Duncan Duncan, et al., Does anyone know an approximate distance from the corner of the picket fence to position of the figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Miles, Just a guess, but taking the car dimensions in these photo's into consideration, I'd say around 25 ft. The car on Lane's left is perpendicular to the fence, say about 15 ft long. Add a few feet for distance between fence and car. They pass between the last two cars closest to the fence, car width 5 ft. Add a few feet for distance between cars. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) Hi Eugene: No need for an apology, we all make errors, zillions, we just carry on... But thank you...appreciated.. ** The Duncan: Hey there.....am looking...in case I have that photo for you...... But for now, perhaps this may help in some way..... ** Miles for your info also.... ** Sam Holland & Mark Lane where Skinny thought approx, the shot and smoke came from..thanks to Chris I believe...and also for the new frames.. ...and yes it was studied and this was approximately 25 feet from the corner of the fence, nearest the steps... Thanks Gents... B..... Edited April 25, 2007 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) Miles,Just a guess, but taking the car dimensions in these photo's into consideration, I'd say around 25 ft. The car on Lane's left is perpendicular to the fence, say about 15 ft long. Add a few feet for distance between fence and car. They pass between the last two cars closest to the fence, car width 5 ft. Add a few feet for distance between cars. chris Chris & Bernice, thanks: here are a few photos which i hope can be used to calculate a distance which may be 25' or more . The trajectory from 25' (or from 30' or from 40') leads to a consideration of whether or not the tree (the Hudson tree) would present issues to a professional sniper. Roberdeau's map gives certain information. The Holland spot may not be the Moorman figure's spot. The Moorman figure may be more than 25' from the corner. Using other photos would it be possible to calculate a distance based on such things as the width of single pickets? Were there 10 or more pickets in a section between the metal support posts? If there are other photos available which add data, I would like to see them in order to make the calculations. Another question is: From the position of the figure as seen in Moorman, would a person at that position see the silhouette line of, the front of or the rear of the Turnpike sign? (!) Thanks in advance. Miles Edited April 25, 2007 by Miles Scull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) Hi Miles: This may help show you the view you would like..? It is looking out onto Elm Street, from behind the fence, where Sam Holland went..... 40 feet from past research, puts the shooter to the right of the tree seen on the right and behind the Turnpike sign...that is too far down..... The Moorman, possible shooter, Hatman, site is not the Holland site, Holland is down further to the left, looking at the fence from the street.....see Duncans work...approximately, I think right now that is till he tells us for sure...?. Below is attached also the Moorman, showing on the Left in yellow....the fence, the Hatman possible shooter or look out ?, which if I recall correctly is somewhere in the 20 feet range, and along the side of the fence to the right is the Badgeman..... marked in yellow... Also the Holland Lane frontal, frame marked.....I believe from Chris..? also an Allan photograph showing you perhaps a better view of almost the complete fence areas taken shortly after that day..... The Hollands site is down further, but not forty feet , perhaps, round guess here 30..ish.. The last photo is taken approximately 40...feet from the corner, and behind the turnpike sign as seen.....some years later.. This may help .. .Gents..... Edited April 25, 2007 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Hi Miles:This may help show you the view you would like..? It is looking out onto Elm Street, from behind the fence, where Sam Holland went..... 40 feet from past research, puts the shooter to the right of the tree seen on the right and behind the Turnpike sign...that is too far down..... The Moorman, possible shooter, Hatman, site is not the Holland site, Holland is down further to the left, looking at the fence from the street.....see Duncans work...approximately, I think right now that is till he tells us for sure...?. Below is attached also the Moorman, showing on the Left in yellow....the fence, the Hatman possible shooter or look out ?, which if I recall correctly is somewhere in the 20 feet range, and along the side of the fence to the right is the Badgeman..... marked in yellow... Also the Holland Lane frontal, frame marked.....I believe from Chris..? also an Allan photograph showing you perhaps a better view of almost the complete fence areas taken shortly after that day..... The Hollands site is down further, but not forty feet , perhaps, round guess here 30..ish.. The last photo is taken approximately 40...feet from the corner, and behind the turnpike sign as seen.....some years later.. This may help .. .Gents..... Bernice, the trade winds are balmy! I owe you all my copra reserves. Regarding (!): http://www.detroitfunk.com/archives.html ?? Can you [or anyone?], please, provide any source info on this photo? Where did you find it? Also, as seen here directly to the left of the street lamppost (which itself is seen to the left of the Turn Pike sign) there is a shorter post (at the sidewalk, a vertical post which might be associated with a "No Parking" sign post, for example). What is this? This post appears to have no sign or placard attached to it. A post without a sign? With no purpose? What can it be? Any explanation or idea? As always, B, you are the breezes. Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eugene B. Connolly Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) Compare shape of President Kennedy's head in the Willis photograph and in the Moorman photograph. Allowing for different angle there seems to be a definite indent and bulge on the crown and left poll respectively. What is that round area at the upper left? Could that be an entry wound? Two almost simultaneous shots? One from left back and then one from right front? EBC Edited April 25, 2007 by Eugene B. Connolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Can you [or anyone?], please, provide any source info on this photo? Where did you find it? Also, as seen here directly to the left of the street lamppost (which itself is seen to the left of the Turn Pike sign) there is a shorter post (at the sidewalk, a vertical post which might be associated with a "No Parking" sign post, for example). What is this? This post appears to have no sign or placard attached to it. A post without a sign? With no purpose? What can it be? Any explanation or idea? As always, B, you are the breezes. Miles My guess is that it's some kind of measuring rod. I know Jack has used something similar on various occasions for various studies. The photograph may even have been taken by Rick Janowitz from "My Shooter's" location when both he and Jack did some studies together a few years ago. Maybe Jack could verify this?...Jack? Duncan Brain Twister & help request for Duncan, Chris, Robin, Bernice, et al.: Would the man in white shorts up by the fence see the back side of the AIRPORTS sign he were to look at it from his position in this photo? Where does the plane of the AIRPORTS sign intersect the fence? At a point how far (#ft.?) west along the fence from its corner does the intersect occur? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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