Virginia Tech Spree Killer

[Guest Stephen Turner]

This is one of those areas where a huge gap exists in the conciousness of Europe, and America. Over the past two months six young men have been murdered, by knifing or gunshot in London. These six murders were headline news for days, and have sparked a huge debate about controlling illegal weapons bringing a lot of pressure on the Government for further tough legislation in this area. In the middle 70s I lived for eighteen months in Grosse point woods, a suburb of Detroit, six murders in two months would have been a reason to celebrate, as it would have represented a massive fall in gun related crime. Different strokes for different folks?

[Charles Black]

Stephen

I quote you "differences of opinion are very tiresome and proof that the educational sytem has failed everyone except yourself."

Why are you attempting in your feeble way to attack me?

How can ANY human being, particularly a member of this forum, state that "differences of opinion are very tiresome." You would not HAVE a forum if there were no differences of opinion"!

I think that I can say, without a doubt, this statement of yours is better than me writing a thousand words.

By the way, what educational system spawned you ?

Will they admit it ?

Charlie Black

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Stephen

I quote you "differences of opinion are very tiresome and proof that the educational sytem has failed everyone except yourself."

Why are you attempting in your feeble way to attack me?

How can ANY human being, particularly a member of this forum, state that "differences of opinion are very tiresome." You would not HAVE a forum if there were no differences of opinion"!

I think that I can say, without a doubt, this statement of yours is better than me writing a thousand words.

By the way, what educational system spawned you ?

Will they admit it ?

Charlie Black

WHAT????????? Charles, Please believe me when I say that when I added that semi, self mocking pun to my posts you were the very last thing on my poor old mind. I was "spawned" by the British secondary Modern system, as to whether they would admit to this crime I doubt it, I wouldnt if I were in their shoes. I meant no insult to you or anybody else by my observations, but if I have given offence please accept my fulsome apologies. Steve.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

This is one of those areas where a huge gap exists in the conciousness of Europe, and America. Over the past two months six young men have been murdered, by knifing or gunshot in London. These six murders were headline news for days, and have sparked a huge debate about controlling illegal weapons bringing a lot of pressure on the Government for further tough legislation in this area. In the middle 70s I lived for eighteen months in Grosse point woods, a suburb of Detroit, six murders in two months would have been a reason to celebrate, as it would have represented a massive fall in gun related crime. Different strokes for different folks?

This particular shooter seems to be motivated by mental illness. The violent crime you witness in urban areas of the US are largely related to poverty, despair, anger and lack of education. Of those, I believe anger is the strongest motivator.

Men, especially those under 25, do not do well when they feel helpless.

You see young men killing over what they perceive is an antagonistic look from someone else. They shoot over "turf" which they themselves do not actually own. They kill for pride yet they exhibit extreme self-loathing. They father children whom they don't parent yet they claim perverse allegiance to a makeshift family of sorts. They claim to live by a code of honor yet they steal from innocent victims.

There is a serious problem with violence in the US - but it is important to remember who is committing the violence and jacking up the numbers - disaffected men under 25.

[Charles Black]

Stephen

I am very sorry for my attack on you which was a result of my own stupidity. Not a valid reason, but my excuse is that I had been baby sitting two of my grandaughters for three hours, and they apparently had gotten to me more than I realized.

Your response to me was very prompt and gentlemanly

I apologize for putting both feet in my mouth.

My deepest apologies also to the forum.

Charles Black

[John Dolva]

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...&of=ENG-USA

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/amr/usa!Open

http://www.rightsforall.amnesty.org/info/report/index.htm

Basically what comes across is pre-judice, lack of respect for life, disregard for international law and a pervasive protection of Law enforcement officers in almost all dubious police killing and/or torturing persons.

The Swiss and other nations experience shows that gun ownership is not the issue.

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2001, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth, the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 39.7%.

Figures on inheritance tell much the same story. According to a study published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, only 1.6% of Americans receive $100,000 or more in inheritance. Another 1.1% receive $50,000 to $100,000. On the other hand, 91.9% receive nothing (Kotlikoff & Gokhale, 2000). Thus, the attempt by ultra-conservatives to eliminate inheritance taxes -- which they always call "death taxes" for P.R. reasons -- would take a huge bite out of government revenues for the benefit of less than 1% of the population. (It is noteworthy that some of the richest people in the country oppose this ultra-conservative initiative, suggesting that this effort is driven by anti-government ideology. In other words, few of the ultra-conservatives behind the effort will benefit from it in any material way.)

The fact that most Americans have little or no wealth except for their house can be seen in the following bar graph* from the Census Bureau. Coming as it does from a bureau carefully monitored by the White House, the report from which this information is drawn studiously avoids any discussion of the concentration of wealth by talking in terms of "median" household wealth. "Median" means that 50% of households have more and 50% of households have less than the figure on the graph, so the top is nowhere in sight. Nonetheless, the graph is highly revealing. Notice also that this graph shows that black and Latino households have far less wealth than do non-Hispanic whites, whether we are talking about wealth in general or just home equity.

*http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

Thanks to a 2006 study by the World Institute for Development Economics Research -- using statistics for the year 2000 -- we now have information on the wealth distribution for the world as a whole, which can be compared to the United States and other well-off countries. The authors of the report admit that the quality of the information available on many countries is very spotty and probably off by several percentage points, but they compensate for this problem with very sophisticated statistical methods and the use of different sets of data. With those caveats in mind, we can still safely say that the top 10% of the world's adults control about 85% of global household wealth -- defined very broadly as all assets (not just financial assets), minus debts. That compares with a figure of 69.8% for the top 10% for the United States. The only industrialized democracy with a higher concentration of wealth in the top 10% than the United States is Switzerland at 71.3%. (and they also have a higher gun ownership, yet is a safe place to be)

If the top 1% of households have 30-35% of the wealth, that's 30 to 35 times what we would expect by chance, and so we infer they must be powerful. And then we set out to see if the same set of households scores high on other power indicators (it does). Next we study how that power operates, which is what most articles on this site are about. Furthermore, if the top 20% have 84% of the wealth (and recall that 10% have 85% to 90% of the stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity), that means that the United States is a power pyramid. It's tough for the bottom 80% -- maybe even the bottom 90% -- to get organized and exercise much power.

The most recent findings on income inequality come from the New York Times' analysis of a November, 2006, Internal Revenue Service report on income in 2004. Although overall income has grown by 27% since 1979, 33% of the gains went to the top 1%. Meanwhile, the bottom 60% were making less: about 95 cents for each dollar they made in 1979. The next 20% - those between the 60th and 80th rungs of the income ladder -- made $1.02 for each dollar they earned in 1979. Furthermore, the Times author concludes that only the top 5% made significant gains ($1.53 for each 1979 dollar).

Most amazing of all, the top 0.1% -- that's one-tenth of one percent -- had more combined pre-tax income than the poorest 120 million people (Johnston, 2006).

A key factor behind the high concentration of income, and the likely reason that the concentration has been increasing, can be seen by examining the distribution of what is called "capital income": income from capital gains, dividends, interest, and rents. In 2003, just 1% of all households -- those with after-tax incomes averaging $701,500 -- received 57.5% of all capital income, up from 40% in the early 1990s. On the other hand, the bottom 80% received only 12.6% of capital income, down by nearly half since 1983, when the bottom 80% received 23.5%.

Now, That's in the US.

Globally "Although North America has only 6% of the world adult population, it accounts for 34% of household wealth. Europe and high income Asia-Pacific countries also own disproportionate amounts of wealth. In contrast, the overall share of wealth owned by people in Africa, China, India, and other lower income countries in Asia is considerably less than their population share, sometimes by a factor of more than ten." http://www.wider.unu.edu/research/2006-200...e-5-12-2006.htm

This makes the US a country with extreme inequality in opportunity, wealth and power, in a world which has also the same inequalities.

It seems to me then that how people are treated by their governements is a major factor.

Mother Theresa said she found the US to be the poorest country she had ever visited. Meaning , I think, that (remember she lived in the slums of Culcutta) the people of the USA do not have 'enough'.

Obviously they do have enough. The myth of equality in the USA is one of the greatest lies ever perpetrated.

Even begging is institutionalised where people in many preofessions receive such low incomes that they depend on a system of 'tipping'.

There is no nationwide left alternative and all attempts to establish such are stymied by the Agencies set up to maintain the inequalities.

When wealth and power is concentrated in such an extreme minority, who through the tyrannical regime they have foisted on the people of the USA and thence on much of the rest of the world, the answers to these questions are perhaps not so elusive.

Edited April 20, 2007 by John Dolva

[Ron Ecker]

I just came across the Korean concept of Han today. Seems to me that Han and guns could certainly be a lethal combination in a troubled youth like Cho. Was he talking Han in his video?

link

[Tom Kutzer]

we may not be perfect, here in the U.S.A.

we obviously have some problems, or this sub forum wouldn't exist.

but the amount of "America Hating" that goes on here continues to amuse me.

and I believe in conspiracies....I think Bush will go down as the worst President we've ever elected, or almost elected.....and I've traveled extensively in Europe, w/o a guide, and not just NATO countries... I don't consider myself a redneck or uneducated when it comes to our neighbors over the water.....I loved my time there....

however...

I would remind the rest of the world that your time in the sun didn't work out so great, did it?.....and remind you that if it wasn't for us gun-toting Imperialists, this whirling dustball would be in much worse shape....

the US wouldn't be in most of the places we are today if it wasn't for someone that was there before "us" with a "good plan"...

there, I said it....

back to avenging JFK....

Edited April 20, 2007 by Tom Kutzer

[Don Jeffries]

John Dolva- great points about the massive disparity of wealth in the U.S. The "trickle down" theory lives on in the minds of our rulers. Evidently, the Va. Tech killer suffered from a strong sense of economic envy. There also seemed to be the typical "outsider" sense of alienation and a sensitivity to being "picked on" by his peers that all of these psychotic school shooters share. I really think that this is much more about the twisted social system that all middle and high schools (at least in the U.S.) feature, and the devastating impact it has upon a tiny group of students, than it is about access to guns. I have never owned a gun, in fact I've never even shot one, but I am very suspicious of any attempts to limit private gun owernship. We have scores of gun laws on the books in the U.S., but like our drug laws, they don't stop them from getting into the hands of those who want them.

No one talks about the common demoninator in all these incidents; the shooter felt uncontrollably angry at his fellow students, for what he construed as their mistreatment of him. Charlie asked a pertinent question about the shooter's high school acquaintances. I also would like to know what his high school experiences were, because I suspect that this is where his future propensity for violence was nurtured. Here in America, they say that many people never get over high school. We really ought to examine why that is, and perhaps look at reforming our middle and high schools. The high school social system mirrors the way wealth is distributed among the adults- simply put, a very few special individuals receive all the best stuff. To the small group of most popular kids in each school, high school is truly heaven on earth. They are literal celebrities to their peers, and the adults bolster their egos by heaping even more attention on them. At the other end of the spectrum, to the "nerds," "geeks," and "trench coat mafia"-types, high school is a living hell. It's a crime that any child has to endure what so many of these kids endure every day at schools all across the country, again enabled by a clueless and uncaring adult "supervision." The vast majority of kids in high school aren't popular or picked on; they provide the audience for the dramas that take place daily, disinterested background players who are putting in their time until graduation. No one has ever really examined how this curious social system effects everyone who goes through it. Such an analysis is long overdue, imho, and would provide more clues on how to solve this horrific problem than another tired gun control debate.

[John Dolva]

John Dolva- great points about the massive disparity of wealth in the U.S. The "trickle down" theory lives on in the minds of our rulers. Evidently, the Va. Tech killer suffered from a strong sense of economic envy. There also seemed to be the typical "outsider" sense of alienation and a sensitivity to being "picked on" by his peers that all of these psychotic school shooters share. I really think that this is much more about the twisted social system that all middle and high schools (at least in the U.S.) feature, and the devastating impact it has upon a tiny group of students, than it is about access to guns. I have never owned a gun, in fact I've never even shot one, but I am very suspicious of any attempts to limit private gun owernship. We have scores of gun laws on the books in the U.S., but like our drug laws, they don't stop them from getting into the hands of those who want them.

No one talks about the common demoninator in all these incidents; the shooter felt uncontrollably angry at his fellow students, for what he construed as their mistreatment of him. Charlie asked a pertinent question about the shooter's high school acquaintances. I also would like to know what his high school experiences were, because I suspect that this is where his future propensity for violence was nurtured. Here in America, they say that many people never get over high school. We really ought to examine why that is, and perhaps look at reforming our middle and high schools. The high school social system mirrors the way wealth is distributed among the adults- simply put, a very few special individuals receive all the best stuff. To the small group of most popular kids in each school, high school is truly heaven on earth. They are literal celebrities to their peers, and the adults bolster their egos by heaping even more attention on them. At the other end of the spectrum, to the "nerds," "geeks," and "trench coat mafia"-types, high school is a living hell. It's a crime that any child has to endure what so many of these kids endure every day at schools all across the country, again enabled by a clueless and uncaring adult "supervision." The vast majority of kids in high school aren't popular or picked on; they provide the audience for the dramas that take place daily, disinterested background players who are putting in their time until graduation. No one has ever really examined how this curious social system effects everyone who goes through it. Such an analysis is long overdue, imho, and would provide more clues on how to solve this horrific problem than another tired gun control debate.

Don, thank you for engaging in a debate about the causes.

There is not much USA hating going on at all on this forum, IMO, certainly not of Joe and Jane Doe. There is an ongoing attempt to understand "why?" are things as they are? It shouldn't be taken personally. These are the state of affairs, simple. Much of it is very disturbing to many across the globe. In the case of the USA even more so given the disproportionate concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a tiny minority that the majority seems incapable of restraining. Why?

My country of choice (Australia) also has a terrible history in the treatment of Natives and Immigrants. There are similar debates going on here. However there is a long tradition of powerful moderating influences of a labor union based Party that at the moment dominates the states and is likely to win federal power as well, admittedly under a more middle of the road leader. I suggest the lack of such an established nation wide left grouping due to the McArthy era and after is something that is missing. It of course is up to USA citizens to sort out.

_____________

Looking for a Hero In Virginia Tech:

Someone who stayed behind and put up resistance, Liviu Librescu, a jew, a holocaust survivor.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiat...u.librescu.html

“As someone who has survived a terror attack myself, I would like to say that the decision to stay put and save others when your own life is in danger goes against every human instinct; it is heroism and self-sacrifice on a scale that is unimaginable and that cannot even be fully appreciated by most human beings. For a (Holocaust) survivor to give up his life after two decades of peace and quiet in the most pastoral of settings is a tragedy for his family, and for all of us.”

[Thomas Graves]

John Dolva- great points about the massive disparity of wealth in the U.S. The "trickle down" theory lives on in the minds of our rulers. Evidently, the Va. Tech killer suffered from a strong sense of economic envy. There also seemed to be the typical "outsider" sense of alienation and a sensitivity to being "picked on" by his peers that all of these psychotic school shooters share. I really think that this is much more about the twisted social system that all middle and high schools (at least in the U.S.) feature, and the devastating impact it has upon a tiny group of students, than it is about access to guns. I have never owned a gun, in fact I've never even shot one, but I am very suspicious of any attempts to limit private gun ownership. We have scores of gun laws on the books in the U.S., but like our drug laws, they don't stop them from getting into the hands of those who want them.

No one talks about the common denominator in all these incidents; the shooter felt uncontrollably angry at his fellow students, for what he construed as their mistreatment of him. Charlie asked a pertinent question about the shooter's high school acquaintances. I also would like to know what his high school experiences were, because I suspect that this is where his future propensity for violence was nurtured. Here in America, they say that many people never get over high school. We really ought to examine why that is, and perhaps look at reforming our middle and high schools. The high school social system mirrors the way wealth is distributed among the adults- simply put, a very few special individuals receive all the best stuff. To the small group of most popular kids in each school, high school is truly heaven on earth. They are literal celebrities to their peers, and the adults bolster their egos by heaping even more attention on them. At the other end of the spectrum, to the "nerds," "geeks," and "trench coat mafia"-types, high school is a living hell. It's a crime that any child has to endure what so many of these kids endure every day at schools all across the country, again enabled by a clueless and uncaring adult "supervision." The vast majority of kids in high school aren't popular or picked on; they provide the audience for the dramas that take place daily, disinterested background players who are putting in their time until graduation. No one has ever really examined how this curious social system effects everyone who goes through it. Such an analysis is long overdue, imho, and would provide more clues on how to solve this horrific problem than another tired gun control debate.

Don, thank you for engaging in a debate about the causes.

There is not much USA hating going on at all on this forum, IMO, certainly not of Joe and Jane Doe. There is an ongoing attempt to understand "why?" are things as they are? It shouldn't be taken personally. These are the state of affairs, simple. Much of it is very disturbing to many across the globe. In the case of the USA even more so given the disproportionate concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a tiny minority that the majority seems incapable of restraining. Why?

My country of choice (Australia) also has a terrible history in the treatment of Natives and Immigrants. There are similar debates going on here. However there is a long tradition of powerful moderating influences of a labor union based Party that at the moment dominates the states and is likely to win federal power as well, admittedly under a more middle of the road leader. I suggest the lack of such an established nation wide left grouping due to the McArthy era and after is something that is missing. It of course is up to USA citizens to sort out.

_____________

Looking for a Hero In Virginia Tech:

Someone who stayed behind and put up resistance, Liviu Librescu, a jew, a holocaust survivor.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiat...u.librescu.html

“As someone who has survived a terror attack myself, I would like to say that the decision to stay put and save others when your own life is in danger goes against every human instinct; it is heroism and self-sacrifice on a scale that is unimaginable and that cannot even be fully appreciated by most human beings. For a (Holocaust) survivor to give up his life after two decades of peace and quiet in the most pastoral of settings is a tragedy for his family, and for all of us.”

________________________________

I'm starting to believe that the evil and extremely clever CIA created (through programs like MK/ULTRA and MOCKINGBIRD) 1) the phenomenon of socially-inappropriate swearing, and 2) the alarming phenomena, exclusive to the USA, of pathological gun-love and the ever-present, lightening-fast, totally irrational tendency of we "ugly" Americans to resort to physical violence and, if we still "Can't get no satisfaction," then, well-- spree killing, particularly, as I suggested, in the United States of America but also, as one highly esteemed "ex patriot" American member of the forum has recently pointed out, in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc etc etc etc, where we Americans absolutely love to go on spree killings on a massive scale..... Well, why would the CIA do this to us? Well, gosh, I guess for the purpose of causing the creation of certain "threads," on this forum (by erstwhile assassination researchers and/or moderators)-- threads like the "Swearing" thread and the "Kent State" thread. Why? For the distracting of the assassination research community from what they do best: researching.... But then I'm being hypocritical here aren't I, due to the simple fact that that I'm posting this here, thereby participating in the perpetuation of this distracting thread! Oh well, I'm finished for now on this "thread," so I guess I'll mosey on over to the "swearing" thread to see if anyone's posted anything funny on it since I last looked at it (ten minutes ago), or at least to see if anyone is "lurking" there, and if so, how many. lol

"Hasta la vista, baby,"

--Thomas

________________________________

Edited April 20, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[John Simkin]

My country of choice (Australia) also has a terrible history in the treatment of Natives and Immigrants. There are similar debates going on here. However there is a long tradition of powerful moderating influences of a labor union based Party that at the moment dominates the states and is likely to win federal power as well, admittedly under a more middle of the road leader. I suggest the lack of such an established nation wide left grouping due to the McArthy era and after is something that is missing. It of course is up to USA citizens to sort out.

I think this is the central point about how the US differs from the rest of the western world. Unfortunately, these labour union based parties that have traditionally defended the interests of the majority have moved sharply to the right in recent years. In the UK we have had a so-called Labour government over the last ten years that has used economic policies to distribute wealth and power from the poor to the rich (the gap in wealth between the rich and the poor poor is now higher than at anytime since the 19th century). Is is all part of a conspiracy? Yes it is. McCarthyism was a conspiracy. A very successful conspiracy that destroyed the left in the US? The hijacking of left-wing parties is also part of a conspiracy. Whereas the left was destroyed in the US from without, in the rest of the developed world it is being destroyed from within.

[Thomas Graves]

John Dolva- great points about the massive disparity of wealth in the U.S. The "trickle down" theory lives on in the minds of our rulers. Evidently, the Va. Tech killer suffered from a strong sense of economic envy. There also seemed to be the typical "outsider" sense of alienation and a sensitivity to being "picked on" by his peers that all of these psychotic school shooters share. I really think that this is much more about the twisted social system that all middle and high schools (at least in the U.S.) feature, and the devastating impact it has upon a tiny group of students, than it is about access to guns. I have never owned a gun, in fact I've never even shot one, but I am very suspicious of any attempts to limit private gun ownership. We have scores of gun laws on the books in the U.S., but like our drug laws, they don't stop them from getting into the hands of those who want them.

No one talks about the common denominator in all these incidents; the shooter felt uncontrollably angry at his fellow students, for what he construed as their mistreatment of him. Charlie asked a pertinent question about the shooter's high school acquaintances. I also would like to know what his high school experiences were, because I suspect that this is where his future propensity for violence was nurtured. Here in America, they say that many people never get over high school. We really ought to examine why that is, and perhaps look at reforming our middle and high schools. The high school social system mirrors the way wealth is distributed among the adults- simply put, a very few special individuals receive all the best stuff. To the small group of most popular kids in each school, high school is truly heaven on earth. They are literal celebrities to their peers, and the adults bolster their egos by heaping even more attention on them. At the other end of the spectrum, to the "nerds," "geeks," and "trench coat mafia"-types, high school is a living hell. It's a crime that any child has to endure what so many of these kids endure every day at schools all across the country, again enabled by a clueless and uncaring adult "supervision." The vast majority of kids in high school aren't popular or picked on; they provide the audience for the dramas that take place daily, disinterested background players who are putting in their time until graduation. No one has ever really examined how this curious social system effects everyone who goes through it. Such an analysis is long overdue, imho, and would provide more clues on how to solve this horrific problem than another tired gun control debate.

Don, thank you for engaging in a debate about the causes.

There is not much USA hating going on at all on this forum, IMO, certainly not of Joe and Jane Doe. There is an ongoing attempt to understand "why?" are things as they are? It shouldn't be taken personally. These are the state of affairs, simple. Much of it is very disturbing to many across the globe. In the case of the USA even more so given the disproportionate concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a tiny minority that the majority seems incapable of restraining. Why?

My country of choice (Australia) also has a terrible history in the treatment of Natives and Immigrants. There are similar debates going on here. However there is a long tradition of powerful moderating influences of a labor union based Party that at the moment dominates the states and is likely to win federal power as well, admittedly under a more middle of the road leader. I suggest the lack of such an established nation wide left grouping due to the McArthy era and after is something that is missing. It of course is up to USA citizens to sort out.

_____________

Looking for a Hero In Virginia Tech:

Someone who stayed behind and put up resistance, Liviu Librescu, a jew, a holocaust survivor.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiat...u.librescu.html

“As someone who has survived a terror attack myself, I would like to say that the decision to stay put and save others when your own life is in danger goes against every human instinct; it is heroism and self-sacrifice on a scale that is unimaginable and that cannot even be fully appreciated by most human beings. For a (Holocaust) survivor to give up his life after two decades of peace and quiet in the most pastoral of settings is a tragedy for his family, and for all of us.”

________________________________

I'm starting to believe that the evil and extremely clever CIA created (through programs like MK/ULTRA and MOCKINGBIRD) 1) the phenomenon of socially-inappropriate swearing on a world-wise basis, and 2) the alarming phenomena, exclusive to the USA, of pathological gun-love and the ever-present, lightening-fast, totally irrational tendency of we "ugly" Americans to resort to physical violence and, if we still "Can't get no satisfaction," then, well heck-- spree killing, particularly, as I suggested, in the United States of America but also, as one highly esteemed "ex patriot" American member of the forum has recently pointed out, in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc etc etc etc, where we Americans absolutely love to go on spree killings on a massive scale..... yes uhh,... OK, well why would the CIA do this to us? Well, gosh, I guess for the purpose of causing the creation of certain "threads," on this forum (by erstwhile assassination researchers and/or moderators)-- threads like uhh... this one! and the "Swearing" thread and the "Kent State" thread, and, and.....

OK, why? For the distracting of the assassination research community from what they do best: researching.... But then I'm being hypocritical here aren't I, due to the simple fact that that I'm posting this, thereby participating in the perpetuation of this (distracting?) thread... Oh well, I'm finished for now on this "thread," so I guess I'll mosey on over to the "swearing" thread to see if anyone's posted anything funny on it since I last looked at it (ten minutes ago), or at least to see if anyone is "lurking" there, and if so, how many. lol

"Hasta la vista, baby,"

--Thomas

________________________________

La Bamba, I mean La Bump-a.....

________________________________

Edited April 20, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[John Simkin]

I'm starting to believe that the evil and extremely clever CIA created (through programs like MK/ULTRA and MOCKINGBIRD) 1) the phenomenon of socially-inappropriate swearing, and 2) the alarming phenomena, exclusive to the USA, of pathological gun-love and the ever-present, lightening-fast, totally irrational tendency of we "ugly" Americans to resort to physical violence and, if we still "Can't get no satisfaction," then, well-- spree killing, particularly, as I suggested, in the United States of America but also, as one highly esteemed "ex patriot" American member of the forum has recently pointed out, in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc etc etc etc, where we Americans absolutely love to go on spree killings on a massive scale..... Well, why would the CIA do this to us? Well, gosh, I guess for the purpose of causing the creation of certain "threads," on this forum (by erstwhile assassination researchers and/or moderators)-- threads like the "Swearing" thread and the "Kent State" thread. Why? For the distracting of the assassination research community from what they do best: researching

Could you please direct us towards your research into the JFK assassination. I seem to have missed those postings.

[Dawn Meredith]

Stephen

I quote you "differences of opinion are very tiresome and proof that the educational sytem has failed everyone except yourself."

Why are you attempting in your feeble way to attack me?

How can ANY human being, particularly a member of this forum, state that "differences of opinion are very tiresome." You would not HAVE a forum if there were no differences of opinion"!

I think that I can say, without a doubt, this statement of yours is better than me writing a thousand words.

By the way, what educational system spawned you ?

Will they admit it ?

Charlie Black

Charlie,

There was NOTHING in Stephen's post directed against you. In fact your post is attacking him.

This was a shocking horrible tragedy and I don't think it could have been forseen. No conspiracy- just an angry and evil guy. NO friends, not even in high school. Anger that built up. At what we don't know. He probably watched a lot of violence. I will not watch his video, and find it deplorable that the media ran even parts of it. This is what he wanted: infamy. This is not news. It's not educational. It's just ratings and so hurtful for the victims' families.

My husband Erick ( a member here)- has guns, but they are locked up.