Ferrell Foundation

[Ron Ecker]

Ron, this is not exactly correct. It was I who worked with Penn

on The Continuing Inquiry.

Jack,

Thanks. Then I hope you can answer Rex's questions about it.

Evidently you have confused Penn's newsletter with Gary's.

Maybe Rex can get them both online.

Ron

[Jack White]

Ron, this is not exactly correct. It was I who worked with Penn

on The Continuing Inquiry.

Jack,

Thanks. Then I hope you can answer Rex's questions about it.

Evidently you have confused Penn's newsletter with Gary's.

Maybe Rex can get them both online.

Ron

I doubt that Gary would give permission for COVERUPS! to be online, since

he was careful to put copyright notices on each issue.

However, knowing Penn well, he would say "hell, (his favorite expletive) spread

it all over the world"...not knowing that years later the internet could do just that.

No permission needed; Penn often used material without permission and DARED

anyone to SUE HIM, so he could get a case in court.

Jack

[Nick Bartetzko]

That link to Olivier's Rockefeller report serves as a reminder. Once again, thank you for putting all the Rockefeller medical panel stuff up online. It led me to a still unappreciated discovery. It's absolutely stunning that radiologist Fred Hodges told the Rockefeller Commission the skull entrance was in the occipital bone as determined at autopsy. Apparently, no one noticed that he was contradicting the Clark Panel's assessment of an entrance 4 inches higher on the skull, and thought it worthwhile to clear this up. Instead, the Belin-led PR machine pumped out that the doctors confirmed two shots from behind and locked away the details so no one could see the extent of the mess he'd uncovered.

Pat

Thanks for the Rockefeller Commission information. I'd never heard of radiologist Fred Hodges and his startling conclusion. I presume this is Dr Hodges. http://www.mir.wustl.edu/neurorad/internal.asp?NavID=10

Nick

[Michael Hogan]

A few suggestions on documents... A few years back I sent 28 bucks to the Archives in exchange for a horrible copy of the Olivier wound ballistics report. Perhaps someone has a good copy you can scan and put online. There are a also a number of HSCA interviews, that, upon last check, have never found their way online, including interviews with the SS agents in the back-up car. I looked all over for them and finally found summaries in an ARRB article by Joe Backes. I suspect there would be a lot of interest in those as well.

Pat,

Is this the Olivier report you're looking for?:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=31996

If not, check the other Rockefeller Commission files I copied while at NARA some months back:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...o?docSetId=1105

As for HSCA transcripts, there are indeed a great many which are not available anywhere online. Most of them are in the HSCA Numbered Files collection I alluded to in my post.

Rex

What I called the Olivier report is actually entitled "Wound Ballistics of 6.5 mm Mannlicher Carcano Ammunition" or some such thing. It's a report created by Alfred Olivier for Edgewood Arsenal, detailing the experiments he conducted on behalf of the Warren Commission. Even though Warren supposedly wanted everything mentioned in testimony released to the public, Olivier's study was supposedly not completed until 1965. It was then held as secret until Weisberg forced its release in 73. Amazingly, in looking through it, I discovered there was not ONE experiment or result in the report not mentioned in Olivier's spring 64 testimony before the WC. In other words, it's obvious the report was withheld for political purposes. At the back of the report it has a syndication list of all the military personnel to whom it was provided. It's over a hundred, if I recall. As M/C ammunition was seriously outdated by 65 and would almost certainly never have been encountered in a combat situation, the providing of this information to disinterested military men while denying it to the public is positively mind-boggling.

That link to Olivier's Rockefeller report serves as a reminder. Once again, thank you for putting all the Rockefeller medical panel stuff up online. It led me to a still unappreciated discovery. It's absolutely stunning that radiologist Fred Hodges told the Rockefeller Commission the skull entrance was in the occipital bone as determined at autopsy. Apparently, no one noticed that he was contradicting the Clark Panel's assessment of an entrance 4 inches higher on the skull, and thought it worthwhile to clear this up. Instead, the Belin-led PR machine pumped out that the doctors confirmed two shots from behind and locked away the details so no one could see the extent of the mess he'd uncovered.

Monroe County Resident Who Had Testified in JFK Assassination Dies

February 11, 2011 - By JOSELYN KING Staff Writer

It was in November 1963 that Dr. Alfred Garipay Olivier testified before the Warren Commission that just one bullet killed President John F. Kennedy.

Years later, the expert witness took up residence in Monroe County.

Olivier died Saturday at age 89 in Sardis and was buried Thursday in the St. Sylvester Catholic Church cemetery in Woodsfield.

While Olivier's "one shot" theory gained notoriety during the investigation of Kennedy's death, Olivier himself lived a less-public life, according to neighbors.

"He has lived here just outside Sardis since 1977, and most people didn't know" he was the expert witness who testified before the Warren Commission, said Brian Turner of Bauer-Turner Funeral Home and Cremation Services in Woodsfield. "He was a low-key man.

"His wife (Peg) also was a doctor," Turner added. "They were close friends around here."

Olivier was born in New Hampshire and was a veteran of World War II. He graduated from the University of Pennsylvania's veterinary school and first worked for the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Later, he was hired by the Edgewood Arsenal Proving Grounds in Maryland, where he oversaw the goat herds in the wound ballistics and biophysics departments.

The Warren Commission sought assistance from Olivier and Edgewood in determining the circumstances surrounding Kennedy's death, as well as the wounding of then-Gov. John Connally of Texas, who had been shot while sitting next to Kennedy.

According to the Warren Commission Report, the Edgewood scientists "simulated the portion of the president's neck through which the bullet passed." The tissue was simulated through the use of three blocks, consisting of various compounds such as gelatin and animal tissue, the report states.

Using the same Mannlicher-Carcano rifle and bullets believed used in the shootings, Edgewood scientists fired 10 shots at a reconstructed skull they created to simulate the assassination.

Olivier is listed as the scientist who supervised the experiments. He testified that results of the tests showed that just one bullet was responsible for killing Kennedy and for striking Connally in the chest and wrist.

http://www.news-register.net/page/content.detail/id/551776/Monroe-County-Resident-Who-Had-Testified-in-JFK-Assassination-Dies.html?nav=515

[John Hunt]

Pat,

I photographed a quality copy of the report at NARA on 07/31/04. I could send the images to Rex on a CD when I find the time.

John Hunt

[Robert Howard]

Pat,

I photographed a quality copy of the report at NARA on 07/31/04. I could send the images to Rex on a CD when I find the time.

John Hunt

Question for Jack White

I am sure Jack White remembers the Red Lobster and Jack Zangetty, Zangretti...At one time I was real interested in the whole story because

I have such admiration for Penn Jones, but once I discovered, with the help of a genealogist, that there were no Zangetti's to speak of,

clarify it is a very unusual name, and there were no related newspaper articles on "Jack's death at, or near Lake Altus, Oklahoma,"

and the genealogist told me there were like, two Zangetti's in the whole U.S., or words to that effect.

https://www.familysearch.org/s/search/index/record-search-advanced#searchType=records&filtered=false&fed=true&collectionId=&advanced=true&givenName=&surname=Zangetti&eventLocation=&eventYearFrom=&eventYearTo=

[preface above URL with http:www.familysearch.org; or it would be easier to just enter the actual website

and enter Zangetti]

I came to the conclusion there was a real dead end, and I left it at that....

But, in retrospect, I have wondered about Charles Spears, he wrote a lot of material in The Continuing Inquiry, and have wondered if he

was bona fide, Jack do you have an opinion, or anything speculation about such issues?

I still believe TCI is very helpful, even if not everything always checks out.

For instance, there are some bio's in TCI that are not in maryferrell's DB.....

I also share Charles Drago's issues with MFF, the whole connection to Eugene Locke,

people like Hemming coming to "visit" her in the old days and the fact that she apparently wasn't

what you would call a real JFK fan, does add an element of WTH, I have long been

aware of that, but I believe a greater danger, would be influencing researchers

to think her website and work was some sort of disinfo warehouse, if you go to that

extreme, I think you are shooting yourself in the face to swat a fly....

Edited February 11, 2011 by Robert Howard

[Pat Speer]

Pat,

I photographed a quality copy of the report at NARA on 07/31/04. I could send the images to Rex on a CD when I find the time.

John Hunt

That would be great, John. I'm assuming I mentioned somewhere on this thread that when I bought a copy of the report from the Archives they sent me what would have to be a third or fourth generation copy, with the photos barely intelligible, and that the copy on the Ferrell site isn't much better.

BTW, I think the widespread availability of your image collection, once accomplished, will represent one of the biggest boosts to research in recent years, second only to the development of the MFF website.

Maybe Rex can talk the MFF's backers into buying it from you, and adding it to the MFF website. Just a thought.

[John Hunt]

Pat,

I photographed a quality copy of the report at NARA on 07/31/04. I could send the images to Rex on a CD when I find the time.

John Hunt

That would be great, John. I'm assuming I mentioned somewhere on this thread that when I bought a copy of the report from the Archives they sent me what would have to be a third or fourth generation copy, with the photos barely intelligible, and that the copy on the Ferrell site isn't much better.

BTW, I think the widespread availability of your image collection, once accomplished, will represent one of the biggest boosts to research in recent years, second only to the development of the MFF website.

Maybe Rex can talk the MFF's backers into buying it from you, and adding it to the MFF website. Just a thought.

Here is a sample of the quality. Page 32.