James Richards Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Shane, I was under the impression that Scherrer died in 1996. Maybe I am wrong. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O'Sullivan Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks, James. There seem be two possibilities - the guy you mention who died in Ohio in 1996 and would have been 52 at the time of the shooting. And another Jean M. Scherrer, still listed in the Los Angeles area, ten years younger, who I have not been able to reach. I heard Scherrer was living in California, then moved to Nevada, so I tend to think it may be the latter and he's still alive but I could be wrong. The whole business with Lynn Mangan also happened in 1996 and I believe Scherrer was living in L.A. at that time. Best, Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks, Shane. Do you know if Sgt. J. Horrall is still alive? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O'Sullivan Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Gene and James: Thanks for the prompting. I made another effort to find Scherrer and Horrall yesterday and finally spoke to them both last night. Horrall says they first heard of the shooting in the car over the police radio. They went to Central Receiving, met Rafer Johnson, who had the gun in his pocket, and escorted him to Rampart station to maintain continuity of the evidence before it was booked. Horrall worked in the organised crime division within LAPD intelligence. His partner was Jean Scherrer, who says he was completely misquoted by C. David Heymann "who couldn't even get my name right" (Heymann calls him "Gene"). Scherrer said RFK was "a very nice person, a very credible individual". When RFK was a Senate Committee investigator in the late fifties, Scherrer had worked with him as an LAPD intelligence officer. Scherrer also worked the 1960 Democratic convention and had contact with the candidates there. Regarding the night of the RFK shooting, Scherrer told me "that night, I was supposed to be his security." Because he knew Kennedy, he got a message through the commander of the division on June 4th that he was to work security for the senator that night. Later the same day, he got another message to say that he wasn't needed, Rafer and Rosie would handle security for the senator but he may be called on later that night after the speech (the senator was due to go on to the Factory nightclub to celebrate). So that night, he was on divisional assignment near the hotel in an unmarked car with Horrall, waiting for a call to go work security for Kennedy. Then word of the shooting came over the radio and they went to Central Receiving and met Rafer, who had the gun, and brought him to Rampart. Horrall and Scherrer don't think there was a conspiracy. Scherrer also volunteered that, after his retirement, he actually met Sirhan's brother (the 1996 incident described above). He wouldn't go into how the meeting came about "because I don't want to bring these other people into it" but the idea was that Sirhan was looking for parole, so if Sirhan came clean with what he knew about the shooting, Scherrer would "see what he could do" to get him a deal (a pardon and deportation to the Middle East, for example). How and why this came about remains murky. But as Sirhan wouldn't confess, nothing further happened. Regarding the Heymann quotes, Scherrer denies that he was at the hotel and says Heymann's "I was there because I had a premonition" quote and suggestion that Scherrer would go into more detail about the shooting for money are both "bullxxxx." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Thanks, Shane. That is terrific information. Well done. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 (edited) Gene: Thanks for your kind words. Those operatives certainly see the pantry as the perfect "killing zone" - so narrow and crowded it seems a second gunman could operate without detection. Gardner is the most interesting figure for me in manipulating Kennedy into the pantry or being a source of inside information for the bad guys. His proximity to Cesar in the backstage hallway before Kennedy left the stage is troubling. And there does seem to be a pattern in the dishonest or incompetent LAPD officers, attorneys and phony coroner's assistants who later worked on the case.I know Larry has his doubts about Sirhan's brothers but I can't say I share those. According to Sirhan's family, he spent every night in the year before the assassination at home. But he would spend his days alone, going to the racetrack or to the library, with no regular friends really monitoring his whereabouts. According to Dr. Spiegel, an hour or so each day for a couple of months with a programmer would be enough to direct Sirhan towards Kennedy, so I don't believe he disappeared for months, I think the programming was done right there in Los Angeles. And Bill Turner's book shows Dr. Bryan to be a leading candidate for the programmer. The Ruby parallels are indeed very interesting. Shane, I'm working on an A to Z list of individuals and groups who were, or may have been, involved in the "Medico-Military-Occult Complex" and who turn up in assassination literature going back to WWI. Dr Bryan is on the list, and my assessment of him is that he was not involved. Without going into the details right now, he simply was not competent to perform what you're requiring of him. The evidence for it, when presented, will be hard to refute. Also, to Gene's comment regarding the Polka Dot girl being too obvious and unprofessional... and therefore a deliberate distraction -- whether a deliberate distraction or not, her behavior is reminiscent of Charlie's girls -- and though I'm not saying she was one of his... she was most likely mixed up with a not dissimilar dangerous cultish crowd... the real milieu in which Sirhan's "programming" occurred. In considering the Military part of "Medico-Military-Occult Complex" the earlier discussion here about the presence of Bulova employees and that company's connections to MI becomes rather important to the direction I've been led along. Edited August 7, 2008 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O'Sullivan Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Thanks, Greg. Look forward to your evidence on Bryan. The gleeful behavior of the polka dot girl has echoes of Manson but, as far as I can see, Sirhan's interest in the occult was a pretty solitary occupation. He went to one Rosicrucian meeting and did the rest of his Rosicrucian studies in his room by correspondence course. I'd be curious to hear of any possible links to darker occult groups. Best, Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Thanks, Greg. Look forward to your evidence on Bryan. The gleeful behavior of the polka dot girl has echoes of Manson but, as far as I can see, Sirhan's interest in the occult was a pretty solitary occupation. He went to one Rosicrucian meeting and did the rest of his Rosicrucian studies in his room by correspondence course. I'd be curious to hear of any possible links to darker occult groups. Best, Shane Shane, the evidence of a link is there in his notebook. It's just been misinterpreted. What appears to obviously mean one thing and one thing only - actually means something entirely different. The context given by surrounding words has been missed - possibly because one of the words was spelled phonetically. I'm on a learning curve with the RFK assassination, but I understand some believe it was his brother who had the real links. Whatever the case, my own observation is that Sirhan was ripe for his role by dint of personality and circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Kelly Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Greg/Shane: I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this case with true investigators like yourselves, and ones who I believe on the right tracks. I am now on that same learning curve about RFK, but ideas and connections are being stimulated by your work. First, I know you didn't pursue the Michael Wayne story, but he seems of interest and I've asked James Richards if he has access to a photo. His real name was allegedly Wien, supposedly an Israeli from Britain, and may have been a Sirhan 'double', or in cahoots with the Polka Dot Girl. Wayne (Wien) allegedly had a rolled up tube (presumably a signed poster of RFK) and was noticeably fleeing the scene when some individuals chased him, and he was detained, because they thought he had a gun. Other accounts have him working in an antiques store in LA, and a 'collector'. Still others link him with Kanbar Khan, an Iranian who had penetrated RFK's campaign team in the week before the assassination, but made himself pretty conspicuous (another deliberate distraction?). Given the dubious motive ascribed to Sirhan (anti-Israel, Phantom jets, Palestine) pointing disingenuously towards the Middle East, and some of the allegations about Mossad/Iran involvement, Wayne/Wien is - for me - an interesting character. If I were to think hard about connecting the dots (Mossad, Khan and his connection to British Intelligence), it comes back to a central player in both JFK and RFK lore who wears a 'black hat' as far as I'm concerned... none other than James Angelton. But that's inductive reasoning and speculation. Second, the interviews with David Rabern in your book seem either "fishy" or (at the other end of the spectrum) an amazing observation. He speaks of operatives all over the Hotel, and in a meeting at a bank building, and specifically of seeing the Morales figure in the presence of the Bullova guy/ Campbell. I assume that, because you quote his story and interview, that you consider his account credible. If what he says is true, then the intelligence operational presence is a fact. Regards, Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O'Sullivan Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 (edited) Thanks, Gene. I attach an image taken by Steve Fontanini of Michael Wayne being handcuffed by Ace security guard Augustus Mallard after the shooting. Wayne ran out of the pantry through the Colonial Room into the main lobby, ostensibly looking for a phone to call emergency services. Alarmed by his behavior, several people gave chase, including Fontanini and Mallard. Wayne collected campaign literature for political candidates and you can see a handful of this and the rolled-up poster in the photo. While Wayne's behaviour was certainly "fishy", the fact that Fontanini, Mallard and others apprehended him so quickly and didn't find a gun suggests to me he was not a shooter, as has been claimed. So I only briefly mention him in my book. Lisa Pease goes into great detail about Khaibar Khan and Michael Wayne in one of her articles. While their stories and points of connection are intriguing, there's no proof Khan was even at the hotel that night and it seems from this photo that Wayne was not armed. I found David Rabern very credible and you must remember he did not know Morales or Campbell by name, he just remembered seeing the figures in the video at the hotel that night. His insight into how undercover operatives like himself worked and why they would be there was very interesting to me and I would dearly love to know who the "Morales" figure in the video actually is. The CIA was running a top-secret program called Chaos in major cities at that time to find out if the anti-war movement had foreign sponsors. Only Helms, Angleton and a few others knew about it and the program's potential links to LAPD intelligence in this context are intriguing. Edited August 11, 2008 by Shane O'Sullivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Fokes Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 <snip>Thanks to John for such a fantastic resource in developing this research and also to James for photos, Bill for support and Peter Fokes who first pointed out the "Richard Helms lookalike" in the footage. All the best, Shane Thank you, Shane. You certainly have provoked a great deal of discussion with your book and DVD. I would imagine you have responded to comments by Mel Ayton and Jefferson Morley in some forum or other. However, I am woefully busy and have not kept up with the discussions. Besides the "Helms look-a-like", I did discover -- as Ayton has noted -- an image of the polka dot lady in the pantry area, as well as several images of a "Sirhan Sirhan look-a-like" standing next to a woman in a black dress with white spots. (See thread on this forum from earlier date.) Looking forward to reading your book and watching the DVD. Regards, Peter Fokes, Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Kelly Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Great picture, Shane. I wonder why we never hear much about Wayne after this night? You'd think - if handcuffed and in essence arrested - that the crowd would react to him in a fashion similar to the hostility towards Sirhan. Wayne/Wien... why the alias? Wasn't he allegedly up in RFK's hotel suite earlier, getting the poster autographed? Campaign paraphernalia collector... pretty good cover assignment. Worked in a bookstore in nearby Pasadena... how long? Hung out with Khanbar Khan... possibly seen in presence of Sirhan and Khan (openly displaying weapons) at RFK campaign headquarters. in prior weeks. I'm trying to see the resemblance to Sirhan, and its somewhat there, but its not popping out as such, although he looks pretty stressed in the picture. A bit of a middle-eastern look, and short... possible double. Maybe he expertly ditched the weapon, or passed it on professionally to a 'break-down' partner. Just strange that -unlike a lot of persons of interest in this case- he drops off the face of the earth after the shooting... no interviews, trial appearances, later intrigue, subsequent investigator contacts (e.g. Ted Caratch/second gun). No acquaintances ever found or quoted... just a guy that nobody knew? An Israeli from Britain with an alias... mighty suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O'Sullivan Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 For anyone interested: I've just posted the new epilogue to my film RFK Must Die: The Assassination of Bobby Kennedy on my website at http://www.rfkmustdie.com This 7-minute update features an interview with audio expert Philip Van Praag, in which he explains the significance of the recently uncovered Pruszynski recording - the only known recording of the gunshots fired in the Ambassador Hotel pantry on June 5, 1968. Van Praag outlines three discoveries he made while analyzing the recording, concluding that 13 shots were fired that night and a second gunman fired the fatal shot that killed Robert Kennedy. Production of the epilogue was kindly supported by the Documentary Channel, who premiered it last Monday and have screened it four times this week after my film. You can find the Documentary Channel on Dish Network 197 and a further screening of both film and epilogue is scheduled for 6:00 PM (EST) on October 29th. The channel has posted a trailer for the epilogue here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SdWUWnIsCw My thanks to Philip Van Praag and co-author Robert Joling for sharing these important new discoveries. You can find more details on their work here: http://www.anopenandshutcase.com I hope the epilogue will further raise public and media awareness of the urgent need for this case to be reopened. Best, Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 For anyone interested: I've just posted the new epilogue to my film RFK Must Die: The Assassination of Bobby Kennedy on my website at http://www.rfkmustdie.comThis 7-minute update features an interview with audio expert Philip Van Praag, in which he explains the significance of the recently uncovered Pruszynski recording - the only known recording of the gunshots fired in the Ambassador Hotel pantry on June 5, 1968. Van Praag outlines three discoveries he made while analyzing the recording, concluding that 13 shots were fired that night and a second gunman fired the fatal shot that killed Robert Kennedy. Production of the epilogue was kindly supported by the Documentary Channel, who premiered it last Monday and have screened it four times this week after my film. You can find the Documentary Channel on Dish Network 197 and a further screening of both film and epilogue is scheduled for 6:00 PM (EST) on October 29th. The channel has posted a trailer for the epilogue here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SdWUWnIsCw My thanks to Philip Van Praag and co-author Robert Joling for sharing these important new discoveries. You can find more details on their work here: http://www.anopenandshutcase.com I hope the epilogue will further raise public and media awareness of the urgent need for this case to be reopened. Best, Shane Just watched it. Excellent on many levels. Van Praag is very effective and a great speaker with a very convincing, calm, professional manner. Bravo! Yes, urgent need for the case to be reopened - but don't hold your breath - the mightest forces in America and the world don't want it [or related matters] touched. It will take the People pushing [hard] to make it happen. Come on People. Shane has done his work and he isn't even American - now we must apply hard pressure - many of us - and a maximum of pressure - against a system [political, judicial, economic, main stream journalistic, corporate, military, etc.] who don't want this story to go anywhere. The stakes are much higher than 'justice', closure, history, Sirhan, etc. The stakes are our Democracy and Freedoms - what's left of them...... Thanks Shane for your great work. Keep at it. I hope you have moved many to do something about this travesty of injustice - one of many - but one of the most obvious and extreme - and perhaps the easiest to show that the 'official version' is just a knowing and pre-planned lie and that a conspiracy existed before, during and after (in fact, still). We can't live with that and have a democracy. Choose my fellow citizens and interested others. I too was impressed with Van Praag when I saw his presentation at the Wecht conference in Pittsburgh. His team is strong, including Judge Joling and Paul Scharade, a victim and close personal friend of the Kennedy family. When discussion verged on getting an official reopening of either RFK or JFK cases, Cyril Wecht said that it won't happen as long as anybody is alive, though there is a slight chance of proving him wrong, but getting the Kennedy family involved would expediate things because the courts really do put more weight on the victims and their families. Scharade explained the Kennedy's attitude, first expressed by RFK over JFK's death, was that the past is past and we must move on to the future. But he agreed to broach the subject with family members again. One of the wisest things I heard was Joling's remark that the legal system is not concerned with truth or justice but with due process. You need to have a legal case and flush it through the system. In that case, it might not be a matter of getting the Kennedy family behind a legal move as it would be to keep them on the sidelines and not interfere with a grand jury investigation, new forensic autopsy and the release of more records. The families are always threatened with more bad stories coming out if the records were released. People like Van Praag and Erik Randich are expert witnesses without an agenda, personal bias or a court to hear them. And Shane did a fine job on packaging that neatly. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James H. Fetzer Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Special Reports Last Updated: Oct 19th, 2010 - 23:02:09 RFK: Outing the CIA at the Ambassador* By Jim Fetzer Online Journal Contributing Writer Oct 18, 2010, 00:19 http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_6464.shtml * Special thanks to Brad Ayers, Shane O’Sullivan, and Kenneth Watson for feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now