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Photo Chase: Unidentified Boys on Elm

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I thought it might be interesting to track the movements of these two unidentified boys, seen standing on the sidewalk on the north side of Elm. I am going to try to only track movement, since they can be seen standing on the sidewalk in multiple photos [Willis, Bronson, Moorman, Betzner, etc] as well as Weigman. They are also seen in a stationary position at the entryway to Pergola Hut Number 4 in a number of references. From there, they appear to make their way across the lawn, cross the stairs, and end up at the top of the incline where the picket fence meets the top of the underpass. Then I lose them, unless one of them is visible later in a crowd shot - Cancellare I think.

Using Don Roberdeau's blank plat, and lifting his original tracking, plus trying to incorporate my own, based upon observation. I don't know why Don has labeled one of the boys 'Smith.' I would very much like to know why. In the film JFK, someone has given one of the boys the label 'RIPLEYS.' Not sure what the point of that was either.

These jackets are very consistent with the local school jackets - reference the photo of JD Tippit's family, as published after his death.

Is it possible that the boys became separated in the aftermath, and one can be seen in Cancellare?

- lee


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Weigman frames. While Weigman covers the bizarre behavior of the Hesters, pans right and returns, the boys have moved into their position at Pergola Hut 4. It's hard to tell [esp in Weigman], but both boys are wearing glasses - as per the later shot at the top of the underpass.

I wonder if IPB is going to choke on this one...


Edited by Lee Forman
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last attempt to load a file- bailed to a gif - too many crashes? Cablucks, Bonds, Towner + close-up, Cancellare. Anyone see one of these boys anywhere after the top of the underpass in anything? Is that one of them back on the sidewalk later on in a Cancellare?

not working....can someone load it for me if I email at as an attachment? I tried about 5x...

Edited by Lee Forman
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These guys are most interesting. I have always pondered if such folk may be connected to the alleged blood found in Dealey Plaza.

I have fragments of information here and have tried to compile it as best as I can. This should not be taken as fact but something worth pondering or added to if anyone can.

Two alleged Dealey Plaza witnesses that day were Robert Corman and another guy who was either a younger brother, cousin or maybe a friend named Jerry. Just before the shooting, Jerry went missing and Robert initially thinks that he is just lost in the crowd.

Days later, Jerry is still missing. Robert pushes the issue with authorities but gets no results. In early December 1963, Robert Corman is killed in a single car accident when his vehicle ploughs into a concrete abutement. His passenger, Charles Redwine ends up in critical condition.

That same day, a woman named Ruthie V. Risner is killed by a hit and run driver. A few days later, Jerry Hanson was arrested for the crime. He has some interesting low level connections to several folk amongst the Dallas underworld (alleged).

Ruthie was also supposedly present in Dealey Plaza when JFK was killed.

Now, what if just before the shooting, Jerry saw something that day behind the fence he shouldn't have and was severely dealt with?

Like I said, none of this should be treated as fact except the part about those people who met early demises.

None of these folk have ever been formally identified as witnesses either.



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In the Cabluck photo's, the two boys can be seen running from the EAST pergola entrance across the grass heading towards the top of the underpass.

Top of the Underpass, where the overpass wall meets the picket fence.

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  • 2 weeks later...


I blieve both boys can be seen. The other one is in the entrance, standing a bit higher. A little to the left.

From CT point of view:

There is a fence in front of them, and the positioning may be strategic, like blocking people trying to get through to the railroad side. Just to be an obstacle, gain time. (Arrested for what? Being clumsy? .... but job is done)

Since the shooting stopped way further on Elm, a lot of attention went to the GK area. Making them without a job. But it is not wise to stay long in one place. You get fotographed etc. People ask questions. Better not. Avoid suspicious behaviour, so walk (sheep) with the crowd, not against. Like 3 people do in the Hughes film. On the corner of Main/Houston.

Great collection..


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