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# Splice in Tina Towner Film

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On 6/16/2017 at 5:29 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Bottom line - we both know that those 6 seconds were not what originally came out of that camera, that day, as a result of Zapruder filming.

Did you mean 26.5479 seconds?

You've got it.

The difference.

Simplified: (18.3/48)= .38125 -.375 = .00625 x 1274.3 = 7.96

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4 hours ago, David Josephs said:

1 / by previous result = 1.106666667 = the needed adjustment to make 18fps into 18.3 fps = Elm incline = 1 vertical foot per second of film after POS A

Answer =1.01666666667 not 1.106666667.  The needed adjustment to make 18fps into 18.3 fps

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3 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Answer =1.01666666667 not 1.106666667.  The needed adjustment to make 18fps into 18.3 fps

yep... reversed those #'s...

yet as I wrote... we're only talking about an 8 frame difference between 18 and 18.3 fps over 486 frames.

Do you think there is any significance to those 8 - or just more needed to make it believable?

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No.

In the end, the ratio's would work out.

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36 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Answer =1.01666666667 not 1.106666667.  The needed adjustment to make 18fps into 18.3 fps

The above ratio should help you understand in terms of limo speed conversions too.

Example: CE884 WC final plat: 14.94mph (z168-z186 = 21.6ft @18fps) x .7625 = 1 / (48/18.3) / 2)  = 11.39mph / 1.016666667 = 11.2mph = Shaneyfelt testimony = average limo speed z161- z313.

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The previous post is ultimately showing the difference between a starting speed and ending speed converted via 48fps, which includes the 18.3/18fps conversion, ending with the magical 3.74mph difference (14.94-11.2) = 5.49ft per second.

Or, what happens when you have the limo traveling 3 frames (z168-z171 WC CE884 final plat) for a total of .9ft = 3.74 mph = 5.49ft per sec

btw, something that needs to be remembered: the whole frame conversion from 18.3 to 18 for that 5.49ft per sec total =  5.49ft per sec / 1.016666 = 5.4ft per sec.

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The station# overlap (3+29.2) of both CE884's at z161 + z168 can be sorted out this way:

(14.94mph) 21.96ft per sec - 19.76ft per sec (http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/22692-swan-song-math-rules/&do=findComment&comment=328146) = 2.2ft per sec =1.5 mph

If you do the math for the initial two entries of both CE884's (z161-z166) and (z168-z171) you'll find the speeds are 2.24 and 3.74. Difference = 1.5mph

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Need to re-phrase what was here previously.

CE884 WC final plat: 14.94mph (z168-z186) 21.96ft per sec / 48 frames = .4575ft per frame

12frames x .4575 = 5.49ft

21.96ft - 5.49ft = 16.47ft per sec = 11.2. mph

Quite simply: 13.44mph (19.76ft per sec) /14.94mph (21.96ft per sec) = .8995... x 18.3fps = 16.462..ft per sec = 11.2mph= Shaneyfelt testimony

The match being: .7625 = (1/1.3114)= (48/18.3) / 2) x 14.94 = 11.39mph / 1.01666667 = 11.2 mph

Edited by Chris Davidson
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On 6/27/2017 at 8:51 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Need to re-phrase what was here previously.

CE884 WC final plat: 14.94mph (z168-z186) 21.96ft per sec / 48 frames = .4575ft per frame

Paraphrased:  The original sequence of 168-186 = 3+29.2 thru 3+50.8 = 21.6 feet in 18 frames = 1.2' per frame

you wrote: "Example: CE884 WC final plat: 14.94mph (z168-z186 = 21.6ft @18fps) x .7625 = 1 / (48/18.3) / 2)  = 11.39mph / 1.016666667 = 11.2mph = Shaneyfelt testimony = average limo speed z161- z313."

Sorry, I cannot find reference for the ".7625" you are using...  what is that?

12frames x .4575 = 5.49ft

But there are 18 frames from 168 to 186.  You're using the result of determining the distance per frame filming at 48fps... yet you use 12... why?

21.96ft - 5.49ft = 16.47ft per sec = 11.2. mph

The 21.96ft is an on plat measurement? since ce884 shows 21.6

Quite simply: 13.44mph (19.76ft per sec) /14.94mph (21.96ft per sec) = .8995... x 18.3fps = 16.462..ft per sec = 11.2mph= Shaneyfelt testimony

The match being: .7625 = (1/1.3114)= (48/18.3) / 2) x 14.94 = 11.39mph / 1.01666667 = 11.2 mph

so .7625 = 11.2 mph ...   please explain...

and I get most the stuff in the middle of that last equation... need a glossary buddy...  put a number down and then after provide a glossary of what each number represents...

.7625 = (1/1.3114)= (48/18.3) / 2) x 14.94 = 11.39mph / 1.01666667 = 11.2 mph

IDK = 1/reciprocal of IDK = 48fps/18.3fps (2.623) / 2 (first 50% cut) = 1.31147 x 14.94fps = 19.59fps = 11.39mph / 1.016667 = 11.2 = FBI speed during crucial frames

Edited by David Josephs
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Paraphrased:  The original sequence of 168-186 = 3+29.2 thru 3+50.8 = 21.6 feet in 18 frames = 1.2' per frame

21.6ft converted to a full second from 18fps to 18.3fps = 18.3/18 = 1.016666..  x 21.6 = 21.96ft per sec.

Sorry, I cannot find reference for the ".7625" you are using...  what is that?

Determine the limo speed after you remove the first 50% of total frames from a 48fps slow-motion film.

But there are 18 frames from 168 to 186.  You're using the result of determining the distance per frame filming at 48fps... yet you use 12... why?

Dealing with one whole second, the equivalent number of frames removed from a 48fps film equaling 5.49ft, is 12 whole frames.

12 frames @ .4575ft per frame yields the common difference distance of 5.49ft.

That 5.49ft per sec common difference equates to 3.74mph

so .7625 = 11.2 mph ...   please explain...

1/1.3114 or   .7625 x 48 = 36.6 frames x .4575ft per frame = 16.7445ft per sec / 1.47 = 11.39mph / 1.01666…(18.3/18) = 11.2mph

IDK = 1/reciprocal of IDK = 48fps/18.3fps (2.623) / 2 (first 50% cut) = 1.31147 x 14.94fps mph = 19.59fps mph = 11.39mph / 1.016667 = 11.2 = FBI speed during crucial frames

What is representative of the limo speed after removing 1/2 the frames to begin with?  2.622 / 2 = 1.3114    1/1.3114 = .7625

The limo is traveling at .7625 of its true speed.

This is equal to 18.3/24 = .7625

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On 6/26/2017 at 4:36 PM, Chris Davidson said:

The above ratio should help you understand in terms of limo speed conversions too.

Example: CE884 WC final plat: 14.94mph (z168-z186 = 21.6ft @18fps) x .7625 = 1 / (48/18.3) / 2)  = 11.39mph / 1.016666667 = 11.2mph = Shaneyfelt testimony = average limo speed z161- z313.

CE884 (z208-z255) there were no background landmarks to use in measuring this span, yet:

47frames @ 43ft @ 18.3fps = 43ft / 2.568sec = 16.744ft per sec = 11.39mph

Remember there was an adjustment made between the public version CE884 and the final plat version CE884 among frames z208-z210.

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17 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Paraphrased:  The original sequence of 168-186 = 3+29.2 thru 3+50.8 = 21.6 feet in 18 frames = 1.2' per frame

21.6ft converted to a full second from 18fps to 18.3fps = 18.3/18 = 1.016666..  x 21.6 = 21.96ft per sec.

Sorry, I cannot find reference for the ".7625" you are using...  what is that?

Determine the limo speed after you remove the first 50% of total frames from a 48fps slow-motion film.

But there are 18 frames from 168 to 186.  You're using the result of determining the distance per frame filming at 48fps... yet you use 12... why?

Dealing with one whole second, the equivalent number of frames removed from a 48fps film equaling 5.49ft, is 12 whole frames.

12 frames @ .4575ft per frame yields the common difference distance of 5.49ft.

That 5.49ft per sec common difference equates to 3.74mph

so .7625 = 11.2 mph ...   please explain...

1/1.3114 or   .7625 x 48 = 36.6 frames x .4575ft per frame = 16.7445ft per sec / 1.47 = 11.39mph / 1.01666…(18.3/18) = 11.2mph

IDK = 1/reciprocal of IDK = 48fps/18.3fps (2.623) / 2 (first 50% cut) = 1.31147 x 14.94fps mph = 19.59fps mph = 11.39mph / 1.016667 = 11.2 = FBI speed during crucial frames

What is representative of the limo speed after removing 1/2 the frames to begin with?  2.622 / 2 = 1.3114    1/1.3114 = .7625

The limo is traveling at .7625 of its true speed.

This is equal to 18.3/24 = .7625

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If you have a good grip on the ratios, you can then plug them into other parts of the overall scenario such as:

1 - .625 (1/2 + (1/2 x 1/4)) =.375 difference x (18.3/18) = .38125 = 18.3/48

Or cross-multiply: .375 x 18.3 = .38125 x 18

Or whole frames: 1/.375 = 2.666... x 18 = 48 frames.        1/.38125 = 2.6229... x 18.3 = 48 frames

An obvious reason for using 18.3fps as the final frame rate.

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On 6/4/2017 at 3:35 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Another easy way to prove the 18.3 fps frame rate is bogus would be to plot JFK's position from z133-z166.

Use the LOS from the Z pedestal to the background lamp-post (frame z166) along Robert West's path.

35.90ft / 1.803 sec (33frames@18.3fps) = 13.54mph

Dale Myers average for limo from Towner End to z150 = 9.8mph

Difference = 3.74mph

If you wanted to use the average of 9.8 and 10.5 = 10.15mph to cover thru z166, the conversion would be:

10.15 x 1.016666... x 1.3114... = 13.53 mph

It's that simple to show the Zapruder film was not shot at 18.3fps.

Myers project was supposed to be a frame x frame sync of multiple films using Z at 18.3fps.

Can't have a sync when your speed for the limo in a 33 frame stretch is off by 3.74mph.

This is basic math.

If you want to push this farther up Elm St

Towner fps via Myers 22.8 - 18.3 = 4.5fps difference

Myers (1.8sec) = 33frame jump / 4.5 fps = 7.333...sec x 18fps (whole frames) = 132 frames

Limo on film at z133.

Overall, Myers (9.8mph) 14.42ft per sec rate of speed when broken down into distance:

1.803 sec x 14.42ft per sec = 25.999ft

1.803 sec x 5.49ft per sec.  =  9.898ft

Combined distance             =  35.897ft = plotted distance (35.9ft) from above.

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2 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

If you want to push this farther up Elm St

Towner fps via Myers 22.8 - 18.3 = 4.5fps difference

Myers (1.8sec) = 33frame jump / 4.5 fps = 7.333...sec x 18fps (whole frames) = 132 frames

Limo on film at z133.

Overall, Myers (9.8mph) 14.42ft per sec rate of speed when broken down into distance:

1.803 sec x 14.42ft per sec = 25.999ft

1.803 sec x 5.49ft per sec.  =  9.898ft

Combined distance             =  35.897ft = plotted distance (35.9ft) from above.

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Since it was not practical to stop the projector when using the original of the Zapruder film, because of the possibility of damage to the film, Mr. Orth volunteered to prepare 35-mm. color slides directly from the original movie of all of the pertinent frames of the assassination which were determined to be frames 171 through 434.

Too many problems with the Elm Turn and Position A...   and then the bogus location for z168 based on 171...
And then all that changed to 161-166.

With speeds of only 16 and 48 on the "Sears Tower Varizoom 8 mm color motion picture camera"... how do they get to 24fps?

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