Joakim H

No religion that I know of is neutral, secularism (as you call it) is neutral. There is no proof of any "higher power". It's all just superstition from a time when we didn't have any better way to explain how things work. There is, however, proof of that the earth is more or less round, and that there are no humans with wings above the clouds etc... Therefore: No religion means neutrality. I haven't read "The giver". My point is that adult humans (many of them anyway) have the ability to make up their own minds. Therefore, no one should make up your mind before you're 15 and can do it yourself. Oh, by the way! I haven't said I want to get rid of conflicts or war, they are a way of stimulating humans and nations.

Stephen M Aaah, but as I said, a child cannot understand or grasp a religion (Or other "opinions" for that matter) when they're so young. Sure, some of them probably can. A minority though. But hey! There is people who can drive excellently before they become 18 (Swedish law) ,and still can't get that drivers license cause they're too young. So, children should be raised as neutrally as possible before they can make up their own mind about things. No crosses, no "Bling-blings", or any other opinion-expressing items until you're 15, no. They're all an extension of one's beliefs and opinions, yes, and if you don't understand that religion/opinion, you shouldnt wear any items relating to them. *Tss* Bloody Trekkers...

Stephen M Is it really freedom of choice when your parents decide wich religion you should belong to when you're so young? That's more like a mild form of brainwashing. If your parents say you have to wear special clothes (etc...) everyday because "This is our religion, and therefore yours" i'd say you have less freedom of choice. Come on! How many human beings under 15 can really grasp what a religion is about? My guess: 7.

Alright, after reading this topic for 10 minutes, I got tired... So, I haven't read it all. But I wanted to express my opinion anyway. Recently in Sweden, a party-member (Don't remember which party...she was black though ) suggested something similar to Chirac's proposition. She thought that religious clothing (and similar items...) should be forbidden to wear up till you where at the age of 15. This, I think, is a very reasonable suggestion. Young children can't belong to a specific religion, but at 15 they can choose for themselves. *Tired*

I would like to point out that this thing about getting votes/power using the fact that people are afraid of terrorists (and communists, to a lesser degree ) isn't really a new one. For example: 1932 (I think it was) a bomb detonated in the german Reichstag. It was soon found out that the person behind the deed was a bolshevist (Spelling?), and a certain mr Hitler, promising to get rid of these terrorist, rose to power. The rest is history...

Name: Joakim Karl Nils Hultman. Age: Becoming 18 this november (Yippe!! ) Town/city of birth: The lovely capitol of Stockholm. Countries lived in: Sweden. Languages spoken: Swedish (No kidding), English and some German. Also know some bits of Russian, Arabic and Japanese. School: Fredrika Bremer. Subjects studied: Math, social science, natural science, history, german, swedish, english...lot's of stuff . Ambitions: Becoming world emperor. Hobbies and interests: History, weaponry, imperialism, table-top games, modelling, hanging around with my friends...that's about it.