How the CIA deals with investigators

[John Simkin]

You might have read about the Gary Webb suicide on another thread: (if not, I suggest you do).

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2554

Personally, I do not think he was murdered. However, he was still murdered by the system that punishes those people brave enough to take on organizations like the CIA.

It is worth considering the way the CIA/MI5 work when they are faced with someone who is having success in investigating their illegal activities. Especially when this activity is linked to the worldwide conspiracy against democracy and freedom of expression.

(Stage 1) The researcher is likely to be young and ambitious. If they are working in the field of journalism, they are probably working for a small, radical, independent, media organization. The first stage is to seduce the investigator into the network they can control. They will therefore be offered a job in a major media organization. The important thing is to get them on the ladder. Once there, they are unlikely to sacrifice their career by writing stories that upset those in power. This normally knocks out most crusading journalists. It is a good strategy as no one is usually aware of what has happened (even the person involved will rarely admit to it).

(Stage 2) A few investigators refuse to get on the ladder. They then have to be dealt with in a different way. These people will start receiving anonymous threats against their children or other loved ones. Most investigators succumb to this threat. Even if you only think there is a 10% chance of it being true, you are unlikely to take risks with the lives of those you love the most.

(Stage 3) Surprisingly some people refuse to give up despite the threats made at Stage 2. It could be said that these people have a personality defect. They do not respond to either bribes or threats. They have to be dealt with in another way. They have to be discredited. Information is planted that suggests they are guilty of some terrible crime, for example, paedophilia. Not that this information is actually published. The threat of this smear taking place is usually enough for someone to end their investigation. After all, they know most people will take the view “there is no smoke without fire”.

(Stage 4) A very small number do not even respond to Stage 3. They suspect the blackmailer is bluffing. Maybe they have the personality that makes it impossible to give in. They continue but they have to constantly deal with false stories about them being planted in the media. They might not be as bad as the threatened paedophilia-type stories but these stories will undermine the investigator’s reputation. This will hurt their career and will cause financial problems. The investigator will begin to suffer from paranoia and depression. It is at this stage the investigator takes their own life.

(Stage 5) When all the previous stages have failed to produce results the investigator will have to be murdered (it is usually made to look like a heart-attack, an accident or suicide).

[William Plumlee]

You might have read about the Gary Webb suicide on another thread: (if not, I suggest you do).

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2554

"....Personally, I do not think he was murdered. However, he was still murdered by the system that punishes those people brave enough to take on organizations like the CIA. ......

......  It (Stage 5) When all the previous stages have failed to produce results the investigator will have to be murdered (it is usually made to look like a heart-attack, an accident or suicide). ...".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John. Very good post. I might add the M.O. is the same for those within the fold who turn away from the dirty work and try to right a wrong. Those reformist do not have the cover of the media at first and if the media does try to cover their stories in detail.., then the source and the journalist becomes the targets within the five step program just like you said.

Edited December 13, 2004 by William Plumlee

[William Plumlee]

You might have read about the Gary Webb suicide on another thread: (if not, I suggest you do).

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2554

"....Personally, I do not think he was murdered. However, he was still murdered by the system that punishes those people brave enough to take on organizations like the CIA. ......

......   It (Stage 5) When all the previous stages have failed to produce results the investigator will have to be murdered (it is usually made to look like a heart-attack, an accident or suicide). ...".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John. Very good post. I might add the M.O. is the same for those within the fold who turn away from the dirty work and try to right a wrong. Those reformist do not have the cover of the media at first and if the media does try to cover their stories in detail.., then the source and the journalist becomes the targets within the five step program just like you said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think William Plumlee knows from experience exactly of what he speaks! As someone who had at one point reached an advanced 'stage' in this 'game' of pressure, I too concur that the steps and analysis are correct - the pressures mentioned used - and the 'final solution' used when it suits them. Nicely worded John!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Peter. If I recall rightfully, you also paid a price on your investigations of the early 90's. Am I wrong on this? Did you not hear from the IRS and had your place broken into after you asked for a few documents on some of those blacked out names of the 1981 FOIA Fensterwald documents? Correct me if I am wrong. Its good to have you on this forum. I think you can be of help on a few matters. Do you remember the picture of the South Knoll and Tom Wilson? Would you like to get into that matter on this Forum? THEY ?? did a number on you... Right?

Edited December 13, 2004 by William Plumlee

[Chris Cox]

So good to see the recent posts, from some new posters. Everyone's in shock. The story as big as it was must not be undermined by speculation and hearsay. I think Webb would want the story told as it happened.

Support for any whistleblower is essential, I think there's some safety in numbers.

[Shanet Clark]

Come on Please Gentlemen!

I would like to welcome all our new members. I have been reading quite a few of the new bibliographies and introductions, and I know we are in for quite a treat when these great minds and critical thinkers join in. This Forum is quite safe and harmless, no matter what it might do to your adrenaline levels! We have students from around the world, columnists, researchers of every stripe, well read and personable people ar joining up.

The level of the discourse continues to both improve and steeply increase in sheer volume, slow days are rare, and keeping up with the red flagged lines on both the debate and seminar threads ( and now the authors online thread - best yet?)

The political debate thread, the history curriculum and many others are getting more active and interesting.

Welcome New Members. Post Often and Thoughtfully.

Don't let these old mercenaries give you the creeps, the alternative press is now 21st century....

[Jack White]

Anyone know if his death was 'natural'...although he was on in years. He was a close friend of Dr. Wecht's and I was introduced to Wilson by Wecht. I have no reason to suspect Wecht. Wilson did for a time seem to be collecting important photo evidence. Jack White - what is your call on this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tom was a very sincere but very private researcher. Wecht and I seemed to be his only confidants. He did some outstanding computer studies of photos, but his interpretations were sometimes open to question. I tried without success to get him to be less secretive and share his work more widely, without much success except for a couple of symposium speeches and appearance in TMWKK. His greatest achievement is untold...his viewing of the REAL autopsy photos in a secret collection in the Archives, aided by Teddy Kennedy. I never saw nor agreed with his study finding Tosh in Peter's copy of Cancellare. I have been in touch with family recently. There seems to be no reason to find his death suspicious. His real contributions may never be known in full because of his penchant for secrecy. Tom was brilliant, but he thought he could beat the "powers" by going through our "legal system"...and was naive to believe that he could achieve it alone.

Jack

[William Plumlee]

Anyone know if his death was 'natural'...although he was on in years. He was a close friend of Dr. Wecht's and I was introduced to Wilson by Wecht. I have no reason to suspect Wecht. Wilson did for a time seem to be collecting important photo evidence. Jack White - what is your call on this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tom was a very sincere but very private researcher. Wecht and I seemed to be his only confidants. He did some outstanding computer studies of photos, but his interpretations were sometimes open to question. I tried without success to get him to be less secretive and share his work more widely, without much success except for a couple of symposium speeches and appearance in TMWKK. His greatest achievement is untold...his viewing of the REAL autopsy photos in a secret collection in the Archives, aided by Teddy Kennedy. I never saw nor agreed with his study finding Tosh in Peter's copy of Cancellare. I have been in touch with family recently. There seems to be no reason to find his death suspicious. His real contributions may never be known in full because of his penchant for secrecy. Tom was brilliant, but he thought he could beat the "powers" by going through our "legal system"...and was naive to believe that he could achieve it alone.

Jack

Naive in this regard is being polite. From the few meetings I had with him and from what I knew about his background, he seemed to be part of the general establishment and new to any idea of the Govenment lying and covering-up. I tried, without success, to tell him he was going to be crushed like a bug with a lawsuit - more so alone!. Apparently he was allowed to look out and analyze the original autopsy photos care of Ted Kennedy and Wecht...that is amazing, but where are the results. Does anyone know if Wecht has any of the results [or knowledge of who does] or did they all 'die' with Wilson.....very strange and sad. Where are the materials he did now? As I understand his technique, they produced enhanceg images and also anlsysis of the nature of substance which made up the material reflecting the light to the film. A most frustrating dead-end at the moment. Peter

NB Wilson apparently was qualified as an expert witness in U.S. federal court in relation to the analysis of entrance and exit wounds of deceased in fatality scene photographs. He is also listed as an expert witness with the Department of Justice.

Thanks Peter: However, I think its time to put this puppy to bed. There is nobody in that photo. All the work done on it Pro or Con by experts or self proclaimed experts, means nothing . Whatever Plumlee has said about it is bull. We all know that. He was not there. Nobody is there. As to the "ABORT" story there is no proof so there is no need to look further into that. Who is this Plumlee and where does he come from? What right does he have to say anything about any of this. Why does he want to miss lead us? He must be CIA dis information. There is not one document that supports anything he says, or even hints that he knew any of the players. There is not even preponderance of any evidence that could even point in that direction that he was connected in some way. Why waste our time when we can better put it to naming the 33 plus CIA Agents and Operatives that have been prove to have been in the Plaza to watch the assassination. And too, there are others who saw the gun sticking out of the eleventh floor of the TSBD, by a black man with no hair. What about the Dallas Cop behind the fence with badge 40 and the trhee men standing next to him. Now that is a prove fact. You can read all about it everywhere in the books that have been written on the subject of the assassination. These Dallas CIA Agents and military people knew all the facts about that day. That's why they were there. We have the names and we have prove they were there. What can this Plumlee add to that? Plumlee was never CIA or Military Intell. There is nothing that proves beyond doubt that he ever served in the army or was in Central America or had any forum of connections to any of this. Why does he continue to jerk our chain. Some of us know that Oswald acted alone and had nothing to do with any government operations. That he was just a nut with a very low IQ. That has been prove way back in 1964. No its best to move on and not waste anymore of our time on this. In time Plumlee will just go away and we can get on with our real work at hand and not be diverted from the truth of that day. Don't and confuss me with facts my mind is made up. Does anyone out there know of Jack Kaufman or Terry Richards, or Christine? They went to school with one of the players in the Kennedy assassination, can't remember who but they went to watch the JFK killing because this person told them it was going to happen because Oswald told him ten days before that he was going shoot Kennedy when he came to Dallas. I have this from a very reliable source who I can not name at this time. AND that is FACT.

No Pete.... its time to put it to rest and move on with life. As they say: "Frankly, my dear I don't give a damn".