Pat Finucane - No charges against security forces

[Guest Gary Loughran]

As was wholly expected.

His son and I were school friends when Pat was shot.

This murder was not carried out by rogue anyone...MI5 and government ministers are all implicated in this and it was part of an institutionalised plan to systematically remove perceived threats to the 'British system' in operation in NI. This included solicitors who had the audacity to represent and get justice for alleged terrorists.

Days before his murder, a british junior minister spoke in parliament, (under advice from MI5 and NI special branch) about the number of solicitors in Northern Ireland who were unduly sympathetic to Republicans. Thus creating an environment whereby a solicitor could be murdered and well...mud sticks, we all know how Mockingbird works. A lot fo the actions 'missing' records etc. should be familiar. Different country, same crap.

From BBC website No Security charges over Finucane

No security charges over Finucane

Pat Finucane was shot dead by loyalist paramilitaries

No police or soldiers will be charged in connection with the murder of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane, the Public Prosecution Service has said.

Mr Finucane, 39, was shot dead at his home by loyalist paramilitaries, the Ulster Defence Association, in 1989.

The killing was one of the most controversial of the 30 years of the Troubles in NI due to allegations of security force collusion.

The PPS said insufficient evidence was "critical" in its decision.

Mr Finucane's widow, Geraldine said: "I have been made aware of the decision but have yet to read all the papers."

The "Stevens Three" report published in 2003 stated that rogue elements within the police and Army in Northern Ireland helped loyalist paramilitaries to murder Catholics in the late 1980s.

However, in a statement on Monday, the Public Prosecution Service said no further prosecution would be brought against any individual.

It said some of the difficulties in bringing charges included absence of records and the death of potential witnesses.

William Stobie was shot dead after the case against him collapsed

Sinn Fein's Alex Maskey said: "This is an absolute scandal that no action is being taken.

"People are being told that while the state was involved in the murders of their loved ones, no prosecution will be taken."

The SDLP's Alban Maginness said the PPS decision was "outrageous" and "the mother of all cover-ups".

He called on the incoming prime minister, Gordon Brown, to announce a fully independent inquiry into Mr Finucane's murder.

In 2004, the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, announced that Mr Finucane's death would be the subject of a inquiry.

Meanwhile, the PPS also confirmed information about weapons handed over to police by William Stobie, who admitted supplying guns used in Mr Finucane's killing.

Bookmaker's massacre

It said weapons deactivated after Stobie, a former UDA quartermaster, gave them to his police handlers in 1989 were later used in loyalist killings.

Investigators had examined the conduct of RUC officers and a civilian employee in relation to the possession and handling of five guns.

The Stevens team uncovered evidence that two of the batch were either partially or fully deactivated before being handed back to Stobie.

One of the guns, a Browning pistol, was later reactivated and used to kill Catholic man Aidan Wallace in west Belfast in 1991.

Less than three months later, in south Belfast, the same weapon was used in the Sean Graham's bookmakers massacre, when UDA gunmen shot dead five people.

Stobie was shot dead outside his home in 2001 just weeks after the court case against him collapsed.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Gary Loughran

[Len Colby]

Gary

I wonder if Mark is going to now claim that you are an “aggressive, impatient” “knucklehead” motivated by “hubris” because you bumped this thread minutes after your previous post. No I imagine he’ll rationalize a difference between our ‘bumps’. LOL

I know nothing about this case, can you provide more information about it.

Len

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Gary

I wonder if Mark is going to now claim that you are an “aggressive, impatient” “knucklehead” motivated by “hubris” because you bumped this thread minutes after your previous post. No I imagine he’ll rationalize a difference between our ‘bumps’. LOL

I know nothing about this case, can you provide more information about it.

Len

Ahh, Mark has not yet experienced the joys of the 'post which does not go to the head of class" (to paraphrase Tom Purvis).

It's really is quite a shame that this case is not as widely known as it should be, but then I suspect Mockingbird was only borrowed by the Americans but invented in the UK. If you did follow this case, it is an exemplar study from cradle to grave, in how state murder, cover up, limited hangouts, press manipulation and outright media falsehoods, national security, missing files, touts/informer abuse, manipulation of government, procrastination/stalling for time etc. etc. work.

It is a textbook case for learning how to identify the MO of intelligence services and government actions. It's is a very perplexing though not unsurprising decision taken by the DPP (allegedly in Belfast LOL).

Len, If you are serious about more info I'll dig out some stuff and sites for you and post them tomorrow am.

Gary

[Michael Chapman]

Gazzer,

I'm a great believer in 'Mocking Bird.' I think 'The Fisherman' believes in it too!

The Fisherman

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Gazzer,

I'm a great believer in 'Mocking Bird.' I think 'The Fisherman' believes in it too!

The Fisherman

I wouldn't believe a word from Ingram's mouth.

Though McGuinness's brigade area (Derry) was on ceasefire since early 1980's despite his continual portrayal as a 'Republican hawk' by the media. In the case of Finucane there is absolutely no evidence, I'm aware of (though I'd appreciate any enlightenment) which would indicate Republican acquiescence.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Gary, I did a lot of research into the MI5/MI6 turf wars during the 1980s, and the false flag terrorism they used, also massive infiltration of the IRA by agent provoceteurs. I will post it here if you think its relevant to the topic of your thread....Steve.

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Gary, I did a lot of research into the MI5/MI6 turf wars during the 1980s, and the false flag terrorism they used, also massive infiltration of the IRA by agent provoceteurs. I will post it here if you think its relevant to the topic of your thread....Steve.

Definitely Stephen,

Northern Ireland was a fertile ground for intelligence and military training/testing of various insurgency/counter insurgency techniques. A lot of people killed here were no more than guinea pigs.

I'm very informed in most of this stuff, but have a tendency to write on the fly, I might actually have to dig out some stuff now for this one.

Cheers

Gary

[Guest David Guyatt]

Bring it on!

It is also worth bearing in mind that the Northern Ireland "troubles" had the appearance of a "strategy of tension" that enabled more authoritarian laws (anti democratic) to be introduced into mainland England under the guise of anti-terror laws.

The whole thing was helped along by having the odd former SAS type go round letting off bombs all over the place and then have the media blame them on the IRA, followed by the fitting up and imprisonment of boatloads of innocent paddies. Nothing new under the sun, eh.

I also used to enjoy reading about the Clockwork Orange operation - amongst others - as outed by Colin Wallace and Fred Holroyd. The ultra-right wing and their mates in the CIA wanted to be rid of Harold Wilson under the pretence he was a commie. And for those who have a really strong stomach, one can always read up on the Kincora Boys Home. Filming and blackmailing significant political figures in the most appalling flagrante delecto dates back a long time and was, once, a speciality of the Technical Services Division of the CIA - that by chance was also the initiating division for MKULTRA, the behaviour modification school of weasely, wanton wickedness.

David

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Bring it on!

It is also worth bearing in mind that the Northern Ireland "troubles" had the appearance of a "strategy of tension" that enabled more authoritarian laws (anti democratic) to be introduced into mainland England under the guise of anti-terror laws.

The whole thing was helped along by having the odd former SAS type go round letting off bombs all over the place and then have the media blame them on the IRA, followed by the fitting up and imprisonment of boatloads of innocent paddies. Nothing new under the sun, eh.

I also used to enjoy reading about the Clockwork Orange operation - amongst others - as outed by Colin Wallace and Fred Holroyd. The ultra-right wing and their mates in the CIA wanted to be rid of Harold Wilson under the pretence he was a commie. And for those who have a really strong stomach, one can always read up on the Kincora Boys Home. Filming and blackmailing significant political figures in the most appalling flagrante delecto dates back a long time and was, once, a speciality of the Technical Services Division of the CIA - that by chance was also the initiating division for MKULTRA, the behaviour modification school of weasely, wanton wickedness.

David

You've really tapped into the underbelly of the troubles.

Kincora was a particularly nasty set-up. Little is available on it, the odd book or supposition, but for the most part it has remained out of reach of most researchers. I suspect that it served a dual purpose a honey trap for the lords and MPs and a breeding ground for loyalist paramilitaries.

I've attempted research in the past into a period from around 1983-1987 where loyalist paramilitarism was pretty dormant. Then from around 88 on it exploded, literally. Info on many of the leading protagonists in loyalism during this time have remarkably blank histories for this period before becoming lead players shortly thereafter - almost from nowhere...strange. I suspect FRU training in England - but there's more to it that I haven't been able to figure out even in my head.

[John Simkin]

From BBC website No Security charges over Finucane

No security charges over Finucane

Pat Finucane was shot dead by loyalist paramilitaries

No police or soldiers will be charged in connection with the murder of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane, the Public Prosecution Service has said.

Mr Finucane, 39, was shot dead at his home by loyalist paramilitaries, the Ulster Defence Association, in 1989.

The killing was one of the most controversial of the 30 years of the Troubles in NI due to allegations of security force collusion.

The PPS said insufficient evidence was "critical" in its decision.

Mr Finucane's widow, Geraldine said: "I have been made aware of the decision but have yet to read all the papers."

The "Stevens Three" report published in 2003 stated that rogue elements within the police and Army in Northern Ireland helped loyalist paramilitaries to murder Catholics in the late 1980s.

However, in a statement on Monday, the Public Prosecution Service said no further prosecution would be brought against any individual.

It said some of the difficulties in bringing charges included absence of records and the death of potential witnesses.

William Stobie was shot dead after the case against him collapsed

Sinn Fein's Alex Maskey said: "This is an absolute scandal that no action is being taken.

"People are being told that while the state was involved in the murders of their loved ones, no prosecution will be taken."

The SDLP's Alban Maginness said the PPS decision was "outrageous" and "the mother of all cover-ups".

He called on the incoming prime minister, Gordon Brown, to announce a fully independent inquiry into Mr Finucane's murder.

In 2004, the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, announced that Mr Finucane's death would be the subject of a inquiry.

Meanwhile, the PPS also confirmed information about weapons handed over to police by William Stobie, who admitted supplying guns used in Mr Finucane's killing.

Bookmaker's massacre

It said weapons deactivated after Stobie, a former UDA quartermaster, gave them to his police handlers in 1989 were later used in loyalist killings.

Investigators had examined the conduct of RUC officers and a civilian employee in relation to the possession and handling of five guns.

The Stevens team uncovered evidence that two of the batch were either partially or fully deactivated before being handed back to Stobie.

One of the guns, a Browning pistol, was later reactivated and used to kill Catholic man Aidan Wallace in west Belfast in 1991.

Less than three months later, in south Belfast, the same weapon was used in the Sean Graham's bookmakers massacre, when UDA gunmen shot dead five people.

Stobie was shot dead outside his home in 2001 just weeks after the court case against him collapsed.

I expect this was part of the Northern Ireland Peace Deal.

[Guest Gary Loughran]

I expect this was part of the Northern Ireland Peace Deal.

Undoubtedly and I'm realisitic enought to accept that. Still doesn't make it right.

The rogue elements of intelligence, absence of records, deaths of potential witnesses, intelligence officers inserted into illegal terrorist organisations....all has an eerie familiarity doesn't it?

[John Simkin]

I expect this was part of the Northern Ireland Peace Deal.

Undoubtedly and I'm realisitic enought to accept that. Still doesn't make it right.

The rogue elements of intelligence, absence of records, deaths of potential witnesses, intelligence officers inserted into illegal terrorist organisations....all has an eerie familiarity doesn't it?

I agree. One again the intelligence services have got away with it. Remember the Colin Wallace case? They attempted to silence Wallace by setting him up as a murderer. This involved killing an innocent man. No one has ever been convicted of that murder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Wallace

[Michael Chapman]

Gary, I did a lot of research into the MI5/MI6 turf wars during the 1980s, and the false flag terrorism they used, also massive infiltration of the IRA by agent provoceteurs. I will post it here if you think its relevant to the topic of your thread....Steve.

Definitely Stephen,

Northern Ireland was a fertile ground for intelligence and military training/testing of various insurgency/counter insurgency techniques. A lot of people killed here were no more than guinea pigs.

I'm very informed in most of this stuff, but have a tendency to write on the fly, I might actually have to dig out some stuff now for this one.

Cheers

Gary

I wouldn't do that if I were you Gazzer: you will have Sid 'Citation' Walker on your case quicker than you can say, "Sergeant Jack Granthan is allegedly Ian 'Rocky' Hurst."

PS Martin's Blog seems to have gone the way of that of a distant colleague who goes by the name of Richard Tomlinson.

[Guest Gary Loughran]

Gary, I did a lot of research into the MI5/MI6 turf wars during the 1980s, and the false flag terrorism they used, also massive infiltration of the IRA by agent provoceteurs. I will post it here if you think its relevant to the topic of your thread....Steve.

Definitely Stephen,

Northern Ireland was a fertile ground for intelligence and military training/testing of various insurgency/counter insurgency techniques. A lot of people killed here were no more than guinea pigs.

I'm very informed in most of this stuff, but have a tendency to write on the fly, I might actually have to dig out some stuff now for this one.

Cheers

Gary

I wouldn't do that if I were you Gazzer: you will have Sid 'Citation' Walker on your case quicker than you can say, "Sergeant Jack Granthan is allegedly Ian 'Rocky' Hurst."

PS Martin's Blog seems to have gone the way of that of a distant colleague who goes by the name of Richard Tomlinson.

How cynical are you? All that Ingram stuff is hyperbole, I'm sure it's purpose was to unsettle the ranks of the Republican movement - there seemed to be internal 5 & 6 battles to variously wreck and support peace moves. Remember 27 landrovers at Stormont with all the attendant press to remove 1 floppy disk, the Castlereagh break in, when the only people ever actually caught breaking into Castlreagh were British intelligence (is that an oxymoron??) agents. Both these events brought down Government here!!!

[Michael Chapman]

]

I wouldn't do that if I were you Gazzer: you will have Sid 'Citation' Walker on your case quicker than you can say, "Sergeant Jack Granthan is allegedly Ian 'Rocky' Hurst."

PS Martin's Blog seems to have gone the way of that of a distant colleague who goes by the name of Richard Tomlinson.

How cynical are you? All that Ingram stuff is hyperbole, I'm sure it's purpose was to unsettle the ranks of the Republican movement - there seemed to be internal 5 & 6 battles to variously wreck and support peace moves. Remember 27 landrovers at Stormont with all the attendant press to remove 1 floppy disk, the Castlereagh break in, when the only people ever actually caught breaking into Castlreagh were British intelligence (is that an oxymoron??) agents. Both these events brought down Government here!!!

You APPEARED to back my analysis of Iraq which is a facsimile of Gaza/West Bank which is a facsimile of Ulster. IRA top brass have always been 'moled' (Stephen Hayes Chief of Staff '41 is perhaps the best example).

If that's an oxymoron what does that make smart asses like us who TRY to figure out what they're up to?

Edited June 27, 2007 by Michael Chapman