Chemtrails, not by Jack White.

[Jack White]

Click on this for a listing of chemtrail sites and photos:

http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemdatapage.html

For the theories concerning "Chemtrails" to be correct, the substance(s) would eventually reach ground level. Why hasn't (or have they?) anyone sampled the air before and after the spray would have settled out to ground level to see what the substance(s) is?

It is not "theories" that these events occur. Click on the websites. Read. Yes, the substances

have been collected and tested. Various things like aluminum and barium fibres. Read.

Look at CHEMTRAILS OVER LOUISVILLE, which has typical photos.

Jack

I have read and scanned many of the articles on the page you linked. I also did a web search on chemtrails and have read and scanned several articles on the web.

Several articles posit the spraying of microscopic pathogens such as strep and pseudemonous. So far, from what I’ve read, the only circumstances that suggest these pathogens to have been released purposefully. are the presence of pathogens isolated in visible sublimates/stains discovered following the observation of what appeared to be chemtrails. These pathogens are naturally occurring, however, and the observations, while suggesting conspiracy, do not constitute empirical proof. The photos of rashes and descriptions of illnesses experienced are fairly severe.

When I lived in the Fort Worth area in the late 1980’s I experienced severe sinus ailments (collapsed sinuses which, if you have experienced it, is agonizing), but this was diagnosed as an allergic reaction to a dried airborne cedar fungus, which was prevalent in the area.

The articles identifying trace aluminum and barium do not compare these samples in a controlled manner, although it seems clear, from the observer’s notes that the materials followed observation of what are described as “chemtrails”.

Aluminum hydroxide has been used extensively in weather experiments for cloud seeding and precipitation. Other than medical applications I am not familiar with uses of barium, therefore theorizing the use in communications experiments or applications, or some other, low frequency type radiation emission experiments, is possible, I suppose.

As much information is posted on the web concerning this subject, there may be something to it, but for me to read all of the subject matter concerning “chemtrails” would take several weeks, at least. Therefore I likely will not read the bulk of it.

I would like to read of a sampling performed in a controlled situation using a base or control sample group, and a review by a qualified allergist. I may be able to perform chemical analyses for elemental metals, likely aluminum, maybe barium, I’ll see.

The web page “Aerosol Operation” has some interesting information. I’m not buying into it, yet, but it seems worth checking out. Since you seem to know about it you might post a brief explanation (or link to one you have previously posted).

My interest in Chemtrails does not extend into studies of the composition of the

sprayed materials. I do not know, and don't know how to find out. My interest

is determining government participation, purpose, secrecy and coverup. If this

were to be revealed, then the composition of the spray would be known. I would

like for the public to be aware of these strange events, and know that they are

NOT contrails, which evaporate within minutes; chemtrails persist and spread

for hours. Photos show that the planes used are air force tankers, not passenger

jets.

Jack

[Michael Hogan]

It did? Maybe you'd like to go back to all those "long ago" times... you know... when it first became "tiresome", dig those words up and republish them here so people can see you're not making this xxxxe up.

And the double standards are amazing. Whether or not you think my evidence is "adequate", at least I have supplied evidence. Jack, on the other hand, has called me a provocateur on more than one occasion without any hint of evidence to support it. But that's just fine with you apparently. If someone makes a point about Jack, their evidence is "inadequate". If Jack says something, it's gospel... no evidence required.

You persist on injecting your catfight with Jack in everything you say. I'm not a Jack White supporter, I'm a supporter of the research of John Armstrong. My posts make that clear. Repeatedly, Jack's comments about Armstrong's research have been far more accurate than yours. I simply acknowledged that.

Unlike you, I've read Armstrong's book several times. I've checked his sources often. That's my evidence.

Your inability to admit that Armstrong's research contains anything of value demonstrates that your ego supersedes your reason.

[Matthew Lewis]

My interest in Chemtrails does not extend into studies of the composition of the

sprayed materials. I do not know, and don't know how to find out. My interest

is determining government participation, purpose, secrecy and coverup. If this

were to be revealed, then the composition of the spray would be known. I would

like for the public to be aware of these strange events, and know that they are

NOT contrails, which evaporate within minutes; chemtrails persist and spread

for hours. Photos show that the planes used are air force tankers, not passenger

jets.

Jack

It is a proven fact that contrails can and do persist given the right conditions so it is wrong to say that they evaporate withing minutes. Depending on the conditions, contrails can evaporate quickly or persist, covering all times in between. Even if it were true that only these mythical "chemtrails" were the onnes persisting, then where is the dividing line? If it dissipates quickly within minutes then it is a contrail, what about if it takes 20 minutes? What about 30, what about 60, 2hours, 3 hours, etc? The science behind it perfectly explains the differences. I've seen studies where they observed contrails lasting all times short and long with no clear dividing line.

There are plenty of photos showing regular commercial jets leaving persistent contrails too. Further, the program flight explorer that I mentioned previously can tell you what many of the flights you see in the air are in near real time. There is also a problem of scale with assuming it is government tankers. The Air Force has what seems like a lot of tankers but many of them are suffering from periodic maintenance issues as most of the fleet was built in the 60's. At any given time, 1/3 to 1/2 the available tankers are deployed and helping with OIF and OEF. Millions of pounds of fuel are delivered by air through these tankers every day. Back home at least 1/3 of the jets are being repaired or overhauled. This leaves 1/3 to 1/6 the total left and they are kept busy providing training to pilots in the states. Pilots need to air refueling practice every month to keep current and more often if they expect to keep their skills up. You would hardly expect a pilot to refuel by air for the first time while deployed in a war zone. To spread "chemtrails" on the scale suggested by some just in the US not to mention worldwide would require hundreds if not thousands more planes that just don't exist in the miltary tanker fleet.

[Charles Drago]

I have not reached any conclusions regarding the chemtrail issue.

In terms of persistent contrails: Should they be expected either to adhere to their original configuration or to expand slightly?

Could expansion of persistent contrials be expected to increase and thicken to the size and apparent depth of significant cloud cover?

I have observed con/chemtrails do just that.

Charles

[Matthew Lewis]

I have not reached any conclusions regarding the chemtrail issue.

In terms of persistent contrails: Should they be expected either to adhere to their original configuration or to expand slightly?

Could expansion of persistent contrials be expected to increase and thicken to the size and apparent depth of significant cloud cover?

I have observed con/chemtrails do just that.

Charles

It all just depends on the weather and how much other air traffic is in the area.

[Charles Drago]

Please help me out by being as specific as possible.

What are the meteorological conditions and air traffic density that, independently or in tandem, would prompt the spread of contrail(s) into large cloud masses?

Under what conditions could a single aircraft produce such an effect?

[Matthew Lewis]

Generally any conditions in which there are or can be high cirrus clouds there can also be contrails and persistent contrails. They need sub freezing temperatures which are always present at altitude and super-saturated air which is not always present but can be predicted. Variations in temperature, humidity and wind will cause some to persist longer than others and can affect how much they spread out. To get more specific one would really have to speak with a meteorologist. I've seen studies done on all of this but am at a loss for where they may be located right now.

[Charles Drago]

Thanks.

[Peter McKenna]

My interest in Chemtrails does not extend into studies of the composition of the

sprayed materials. I do not know, and don't know how to find out. My interest

is determining government participation, purpose, secrecy and coverup. If this

were to be revealed, then the composition of the spray would be known. I would

like for the public to be aware of these strange events, and know that they are

NOT contrails, which evaporate within minutes; chemtrails persist and spread

for hours. Photos show that the planes used are air force tankers, not passenger

jets.

Jack

It is a proven fact that contrails can and do persist given the right conditions so it is wrong to say that they evaporate withing minutes. Depending on the conditions, contrails can evaporate quickly or persist, covering all times in between. Even if it were true that only these mythical "chemtrails" were the onnes persisting, then where is the dividing line? If it dissipates quickly within minutes then it is a contrail, what about if it takes 20 minutes? What about 30, what about 60, 2hours, 3 hours, etc? The science behind it perfectly explains the differences. I've seen studies where they observed contrails lasting all times short and long with no clear dividing line.

There are plenty of photos showing regular commercial jets leaving persistent contrails too. Further, the program flight explorer that I mentioned previously can tell you what many of the flights you see in the air are in near real time. There is also a problem of scale with assuming it is government tankers. The Air Force has what seems like a lot of tankers but many of them are suffering from periodic maintenance issues as most of the fleet was built in the 60's. At any given time, 1/3 to 1/2 the available tankers are deployed and helping with OIF and OEF. Millions of pounds of fuel are delivered by air through these tankers every day. Back home at least 1/3 of the jets are being repaired or overhauled. This leaves 1/3 to 1/6 the total left and they are kept busy providing training to pilots in the states. Pilots need to air refueling practice every month to keep current and more often if they expect to keep their skills up. You would hardly expect a pilot to refuel by air for the first time while deployed in a war zone. To spread "chemtrails" on the scale suggested by some just in the US not to mention worldwide would require hundreds if not thousands more planes that just don't exist in the miltary tanker fleet.

The return of contrails from ice/moisture (the visible cloudlike trails are actually either water mist or ice) to a gas (water vapor) would require the addition of the latent heat of vaporization. The latent heat would exceed 1000 btu/lb of water. Significant visible formations of contrails therefore will not typically disppear in minutes as there is insufficient heat available to cause the phase change. In fact ice crystals will seed additional sublimation/formation of moisture.

It is incorrect to assume that contrails will disappear in minutes. This could occur but would be atypical.

[Charles Drago]

It is incorrect to assume that contrails will disappear in minutes. This could occur but would be atypical.

Thanks, Peter.

I'm most curious about the spread of the so-called chemtrails. I have observed them occluding significant portions (in this layman's terms, at least 50%) of the visible sky.

"Visible," that is, from the outskirts of a mid-size American city -- as opposed to, say, open prairie in Kansas.

I seems that the trails propagate and thicken rather than spread themselves ever thinner.

Can you account for this?

Thanks in advance.

[Peter McKenna]

It is incorrect to assume that contrails will disappear in minutes. This could occur but would be atypical.

Thanks, Peter.

I'm most curious about the spread of the so-called chemtrails. I have observed them occluding significant portions (in this layman's terms, at least 50%) of the visible sky.

"Visible," that is, from the outskirts of a mid-size American city -- as opposed to, say, open prairie in Kansas.

I seems that the trails propagate and thicken rather than spread themselves ever thinner.

Can you account for this?

Thanks in advance.

Once formed contrails are quite similar to cirrus clouds. I assume that upper level winds spread the formations (I'm not a meteorologist but this is a logical assumption). saturated air (air that is at or near its saturation limit, the maximum water vapor content at the partial pressure of the water vapor) will give up the latent heat of vaporization to the cold air/ice crystals, changing the ice to moisture (liquid) and condensing the water vapor from a gaseous state to liquid. This process will continue as long as a sufficient cold air source is present (upper level trough-jet stream provides an ideal source of cold air for this purpose, the "seeding" via ice crystals provides both an attractive element [surface tension as well as charged particles, pollutants provide ideal core particles, hence engine exhaust contrails] for this process to manifest, similar to the proliferation of clouds). Condensation creates low pressure or vacuum, drawing in more cold air and water vapor causing a self generating precipitant.

That is my understanding. This process is the same as that which proliferates clouds (and ultimately precipitation), but on a smaller scale. I'm only an amateur meteorologist, however (although my work involves some amount of this), so you might try a better source for confirmation.

[Charles Drago]

Again, thank you.

I hope I'm not belaboring the point, but the cloud-forming trails of the past few years seem to be a new phenomenon.

Could advances in jet engine design and/or fuel refinement contribute to what we're seeing?

[Jack White]

I have not reached any conclusions regarding the chemtrail issue.

In terms of persistent contrails: Should they be expected either to adhere to their original configuration or to expand slightly?

Could expansion of persistent contrials be expected to increase and thicken to the size and apparent depth of significant cloud cover?

I have observed con/chemtrails do just that.

Charles

It all just depends on the weather and how much other air traffic is in the area.

Charles...you should be aware that Lewis is in the Air Force.

Chemtrails are sprayed by the Air Force.

Do you find the coincidence interesting?

Attached are typical chemtrails over Louisville.

Jack

Edited January 5, 2008 by Jack White

[Jack White]

My interest in Chemtrails does not extend into studies of the composition of the

sprayed materials. I do not know, and don't know how to find out. My interest

is determining government participation, purpose, secrecy and coverup. If this

were to be revealed, then the composition of the spray would be known. I would

like for the public to be aware of these strange events, and know that they are

NOT contrails, which evaporate within minutes; chemtrails persist and spread

for hours. Photos show that the planes used are air force tankers, not passenger

jets.

Jack

It is a proven fact that contrails can and do persist given the right conditions so it is wrong to say that they evaporate withing minutes. Depending on the conditions, contrails can evaporate quickly or persist, covering all times in between. Even if it were true that only these mythical "chemtrails" were the onnes persisting, then where is the dividing line? If it dissipates quickly within minutes then it is a contrail, what about if it takes 20 minutes? What about 30, what about 60, 2hours, 3 hours, etc? The science behind it perfectly explains the differences. I've seen studies where they observed contrails lasting all times short and long with no clear dividing line.

There are plenty of photos showing regular commercial jets leaving persistent contrails too. Further, the program flight explorer that I mentioned previously can tell you what many of the flights you see in the air are in near real time. There is also a problem of scale with assuming it is government tankers. The Air Force has what seems like a lot of tankers but many of them are suffering from periodic maintenance issues as most of the fleet was built in the 60's. At any given time, 1/3 to 1/2 the available tankers are deployed and helping with OIF and OEF. Millions of pounds of fuel are delivered by air through these tankers every day. Back home at least 1/3 of the jets are being repaired or overhauled. This leaves 1/3 to 1/6 the total left and they are kept busy providing training to pilots in the states. Pilots need to air refueling practice every month to keep current and more often if they expect to keep their skills up. You would hardly expect a pilot to refuel by air for the first time while deployed in a war zone. To spread "chemtrails" on the scale suggested by some just in the US not to mention worldwide would require hundreds if not thousands more planes that just don't exist in the miltary tanker fleet.

The return of contrails from ice/moisture (the visible cloudlike trails are actually either water mist or ice) to a gas (water vapor) would require the addition of the latent heat of vaporization. The latent heat would exceed 1000 btu/lb of water. Significant visible formations of contrails therefore will not typically disppear in minutes as there is insufficient heat available to cause the phase change. In fact ice crystals will seed additional sublimation/formation of moisture.

It is incorrect to assume that contrails will disappear in minutes. This could occur but would be atypical.

My house is situated between three of the world's largest airfields. I see dozens of flights

daily. I see many CONTRAILS. They disappear within thirty seconds. I see many CHEMTRAILS.

They do not disappear at all, but spread out to form large cirrus cloud cover. I DO NOT ASSUME

THAT CONTRAILS DISAPPEAR WITHIN SECONDS. I OBSERVE IT FREQUENTLY. I have seen

chemtrails and contails in the sky at the same time. I speak from observation, not theorizing

Jack

[Peter McKenna]

Again, thank you.

I hope I'm not be. laboring the point, but the cloud-forming trails of the past few years seem to be a new phenomenon.

Could advances in jet engine design and/or fuel refinement contribute to what we're seeing?

I dont know the answer to that. When it comes to the patterns which have been photographed, the answer would be no. The patterns themselves seem pretty weird.

I would think that the more fuel efficient engine designs would cut back on any kind of trails, owing to the engine exhaust pollutants in creation of core particles for ice crystal formation.