FBI, the mob, and 9/11

[Jack White]

Where is the charring? Where is the dust?

Jack

[Jack White]

Before the first WTC building collapsed, spreading dust everywhere, the FBI had

already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it. Minutes

later, the area was covered in dust, and the wheel is in a different place. With

chaos in the entire areas, it is remarkable that the FBI had photo teams all over

the area shooting photos of "evidence" within the first hour.

Jack

[Matthew Lewis]

What do the arrows show? Did the FBI in fact paint them? They appear to be construction related to me.

[Evan Burton]

Before the first WTC building collapsed, spreading dust everywhere, the FBI had

already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it. Minutes

later, the area was covered in dust, and the wheel is in a different place. With

chaos in the entire areas, it is remarkable that the FBI had photo teams all over

the area shooting photos of "evidence" within the first hour.

Jack

jack,

Could you please confirm that you contacted the photographers of each image and confirmed the times they were taken? This would obviously support your hypothesis that "...the FBI had already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it...".

If you have other evidence to support your hypothesis, could you present it?

[Jack White]

Before the first WTC building collapsed, spreading dust everywhere, the FBI had

already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it. Minutes

later, the area was covered in dust, and the wheel is in a different place. With

chaos in the entire areas, it is remarkable that the FBI had photo teams all over

the area shooting photos of "evidence" within the first hour.

Jack

jack,

Could you please confirm that you contacted the photographers of each image and confirmed the times they were taken? This would obviously support your hypothesis that "...the FBI had already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it...".

If you have other evidence to support your hypothesis, could you present it?

The FBI was out taking photos of "wreckage" before dust covered the scenes. Therefore

the time is before the first tower fell.

Jack

[Evan Burton]

You are avoiding the question, Jack.

Could you please confirm that you contacted the photographers of each image and confirmed the times they were taken? This would obviously support your hypothesis that "...the FBI had already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it...".

[Jack White]

Before the first WTC building collapsed, spreading dust everywhere, the FBI had

already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it. Minutes

later, the area was covered in dust, and the wheel is in a different place. With

chaos in the entire areas, it is remarkable that the FBI had photo teams all over

the area shooting photos of "evidence" within the first hour.

Jack

A photo of the tire with an emergency vehicle at the curb.

Jack

[Jack White]

CORRECTING A MINOR TYPO.

Edited May 17, 2008 by Jack White

[Evan Burton]

You are avoiding the question, Jack.

Could you please confirm that you contacted the photographers of each image and confirmed the times they were taken? This would obviously support your hypothesis that "...the FBI had already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it...".

Still waiting - did you confirm the times the images were taken.... or are you just assuming?

[Evan Burton]

And you stated it was knocked there by persons fleeing the scene. From 16 feet in the air?

Jack

Incorrect yet again, Jack. I asked why - working under the premise you are wrong - why it could not have been possible for that to happen. I did not state it as fact. I simply asked you why that could not be an explanation.

Where has it been claimed that the engine hit the sign? From the official report, or other official source, please.

I don't believe it says that anywhere (though I may well be wrong... if shown a quote, etc, of where it was claimed).

Working under the premise that the engine did not bring down the street sign, is it not possible that other debris from the area hit the sign? Could the sign not have been kicked / thrown / knocked there by persons fleeing the scene?

If not, why not? Again, clear evidence of why it would not be possible, please.

Please do not put words into my mouth.

Can you prove that it was knocked there by the engine? If not, can you positively discount that it was not knocked there by people fleeing the scene?

Still waiting - Can you prove that it was knocked there by the engine? If not, can you positively discount that it was not knocked there by people fleeing the scene?

[Matthew Lewis]

Do we know for sure the sign wasn't knocked down by some unrelated event? Could it have been down before September 11? Perhaps related to the construction? Why should we assume the sign was knocked down by the engine? Why is engine in quotes? Are you now questioning whether it is an engine at all?

[Jack White]

You are avoiding the question, Jack.

Could you please confirm that you contacted the photographers of each image and confirmed the times they were taken? This would obviously support your hypothesis that "...the FBI had already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it...".

Still waiting - did you confirm the times the images were taken.... or are you just assuming?

I should remind the moderator that bullying is not allowed on the forum.

Repeated taunts and insistence on answering questions is bullying.

Jack

[Len Colby]

Where is the charring? Where is the dust?

Jack

Why would expect the parts to be charred? Metal doesn’t burn let alone char in hydrocarbon fires.

Do you know when and where the photo was taken how do you know it wasn’t after the part had been move to the landfill?

How do you know those photos were taken by the FBI, just because the were at Charles and Murray doesn’t mean they were anywhere else.

As for the wheel moving that wouldn’t really constitute tampering with evidence because a slight shift its position wouldn’t effect anything, it could have been move by a spectator, the force of the collapse or for reasons unknown.

Peter wrote:

The most amazing thing is the Johnny-on-the-spot appearance and action of the FBI on the debris;

Why odd? The NYC FBI office was only a few minutes away. The elapsed time between the 1st crash and the 1st collapse was 73 minutes.

but then FEMA had been moved-in the afternoon before......and set up a staging area [for an 'exercise' to be Sept. 12] on the same Pier that Guiliani used for his Command Center - he even used the supplies they had brought for the exercise.

Citation?

[Len Colby]

I actually agree with Jack that the sign PROBABLLY was knocked down by the engine core but fail to see why this would be odd. The core was ejected from the South Tower about 1500 feet (450 meters) away at the time it was 1000 – 1100 feet (300 – 340 meters) above street level. Gravity caused to fall. If it hit the sign and Jack’s height estimate was accurate it had gotten down to 16 feet (4.9 meters). In any case what stopped it was the ground.

The core and either fell under the scaffolding because that was the end point of the formers arc or they bounced or were moved there.

Question for Jack and Peter why would they go to the extra effort to knock the sign down? How could they have done so and planted the part without being noticed? If it were as heavy as you image it would require several men to lift it.

Even more amazing to me than the neatly tucked-under the scaffolding engine is that I'm not aware of any civilian reports of either the engine crashing on the street nor it being investigated by or moved or not moved by the FBI.

Actually as already mentioned it was mentioned in the ASCE/FEMA report, try and pay attention. And if the stills Jack uploaded to the other thread weren’t fakes was covered on TV. Other images look like regular photos suggesting the story got coverage in the print media but on the scale of events that morning it was a minor footnote.

Where is the crack in the sidewalk or hole in the road pavement from a one ton+ engine moving at high speed into it?! The momentum would be huge!

We’re still waiting for your or Jack’s calculations as to the mass, speed and angle of the core upon impact and the strength of the sidewalk and street. If you can show that the should have more damage you have a point till then you’re just hand waving.

why are we not allowed to know the serial numbers on these parts

Already explained several times. Do you know of anyone who requested the s/n via a FOIA request and was denied? Do you know of any NTSB crash reports that cite the s/n of any parts other than "black boxes" not blamed for the crash?

[Evan Burton]

You are avoiding the question, Jack.

Could you please confirm that you contacted the photographers of each image and confirmed the times they were taken? This would obviously support your hypothesis that "...the FBI had already found this wheel, spray painted arrows under it, and moved it...".

Still waiting - did you confirm the times the images were taken.... or are you just assuming?

I should remind the moderator that bullying is not allowed on the forum.

Repeated taunts and insistence on answering questions is bullying.

Jack

And I'll remind you of a Forum rule:

(iii) Wherever possible, members should give references (books, documents, etc) concerning the comments that they make. This will help those carrying out academic research into this area.

I asked a perfectly fair and reasonable question, reference your comments: did you confirm the times the images were taken.... or are you just assuming?