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Larry Earl Reno and Jim Koethe


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#1 John Simkin

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 07:22 AM

Email from an informant:

Sir, I recently discovered that Larry Earl Reno is still alive and up to his old tricks. As I'm sure you know, he was the chief suspect in the strange death of Dallas reporter Jim Koethe. Thought you may be interested. Perhaps someone should have a talk with him. Maybe he's ready to talk. Please disseminate this information to the research community.

Your website is excellent. Please continue the great work. You're providing a tremendous service to the country and to the memory of it's last true president. I will continue to be on the look out for any new info to send to you. You know, the death of Jim Koethe has always bothered me. Often understated about that event is what was stolen at the crime scene (notes on his upcoming JFK book). Why would a 2-bit thug like Reno steal something like that? What value would those notes present to a supposed random thief.....none!! Anyway, Reno's whereabouts are now known, perhaps someone could have a talk with him. Good luck!


http://blog.al.com/s..._center_po.html

http://www.al.com/ne...coll=2#continue

You can read about Jim Koethe here:

http://www.spartacus...k/JFKkoethe.htm

#2 William Kelly

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 06:13 PM

Email from an informant:

Sir, I recently discovered that Larry Earl Reno is still alive and up to his old tricks. As I'm sure you know, he was the chief suspect in the strange death of Dallas reporter Jim Koethe. Thought you may be interested. Perhaps someone should have a talk with him. Maybe he's ready to talk. Please disseminate this information to the research community.

Your website is excellent. Please continue the great work. You're providing a tremendous service to the country and to the memory of it's last true president. I will continue to be on the look out for any new info to send to you. You know, the death of Jim Koethe has always bothered me. Often understated about that event is what was stolen at the crime scene (notes on his upcoming JFK book). Why would a 2-bit thug like Reno steal something like that? What value would those notes present to a supposed random thief.....none!! Anyway, Reno's whereabouts are now known, perhaps someone could have a talk with him. Good luck!


http://blog.al.com/s..._center_po.html

http://www.al.com/ne...coll=2#continue

You can read about Jim Koethe here:

http://www.spartacus...k/JFKkoethe.htm



John,

While Jim Koethe is among the list of unsolved, cold-case homicides related to the assassination of President Kennedy, I don't think it is such a good idea to ask independent researchers and students to take up this case.

That is a job for the Dallas District Attorney, Craig Watkins, who recently took office and as is the responsiblity of a new DA, has reviewed and is reviewing unresolved cases.

While reseachers can uncover new information, evidence and witnesses, only the DA can take the new evidence to a grand jury for possible indictment.

And if the suspect(s) are professional killers or pysco homicidal maniacs, then researchers and students not only dig up information they can do nothing with, they put themselves in danger.

I suggest that your informant, or anyone with new information on this or any other similar case, contact the Dallas DA's office and provide them with the information.

BK

http://www.dallascounty.org/da/

#3 James Richards

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 11:43 PM

Reno is not the only one here. His cousin, a woman named Lena Genomia Lee was also mixed up with what happened. It would be worth while discovering if she is still alive.

Will Fritz wanted to charge her as an accessory but A.D. Jim Bowie cited a provision in state law which exempted close relatives from standing trial as accessories.

To cut a long story short, she walked free.

FWIW.

James

Edited by James Richards, 08 July 2007 - 12:39 AM.


#4 Kathleen Collins

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 02:14 AM

I believe Jim Koethe and Karyn Kupcinet died the same way -- probably from squeezing from behind with a strong arm to cut off the carotid artery on one side. Or else -- a karate chop. If these two died in a similar way, this points to a hitman in my opinion. Karyn's apartment had been ransacked. But the only thing missing were some 100 odd Desoxyn, which is methamphetamine.

Her father called a mobster immediately when Oswald was shot by Ruby and Ruby was identified. They both knew Ruby, but Irv didn't know him that well. The mobster was surprised and said, "Sparky wouldn't do that." Kupcinet considered himself a real journalist, not just a gossip columnist. He was going to dig up the Chicago connection to the Assassination. I've read, but I can't confirm this, that Irv never wrote about the assassination again after his daughter died.

So there's a Ruby connection to the 2 deaths. John Simkin's "informant," or an interested party, should try to get a copy of Jim Koethe's autopsy for a start.

James, what is all this stuff about Reno and his female cousin? You know so much, it astounds me. Could you fill me in on Koethe?

Kathy C

#5 James Richards

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 03:04 AM

Kathy,

I don't know a whole lot here but there was certainly some strange things going on. Reno was eventually no-billed but was held on other burglary charges and he did some serious time for them.

There was another guy charged as an accessory in Koethe's murder and his name was Sidney Earl Perry who had a history of robbery with Reno. Perry was nabbed in Florida and if I remember correctly, he was also no-billed.

Reno supposedly took guns from Koethe's apartment and other items were found in Lena Genomia Lee's place.

The karate chop thing is mostly misunderstood as striking someone to the throat requires immense power, timing and quite some training to do serious damage. There are much easier and more reliable ways to get the job done. Even choking someone requires quite some determination to finish them off especially if the victim doesn't want to be choked in the first place.

FWIW.

James

#6 Jack White

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 03:18 AM

I always assumed the "karate chop" was to the BACK of the neck, not the throat.
Am I wrong?

Jack

#7 James Richards

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 03:26 AM

Jack,

Technically, there is no such thing as a 'karate chop'. That was something Maxwell Smart used to knock KAOS agents out with. :D

Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage.

Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set to get the job done. For professional killers, this is time consuming, leaves trace evidence all over the place and can be clumsy.

If there was a contract out on Koethe, I find it difficult to believe that an idiot like Reno would have been employed.

James

Edited by James Richards, 08 July 2007 - 03:43 AM.


#8 William Kelly

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 05:54 PM

Gary Mack has checked in with me re: this thread, and assures me that there is no new evidence and that the case "is closed."

I pointed out to Gary that until someone is indicted and convicted, it is still an open, cold case homicide, and he agrees that while it is still "technically" open, there is no new evidence.

Now there's a reason to get the new Dallas DA to review the case.

BK

#9 John Dolva

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 07:25 PM

Jack,

Technically, there is no such thing as a 'karate chop'. That was something Maxwell Smart used to knock KAOS agents out with. :ph34r:

Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage.

Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set to get the job done. For professional killers, this is time consuming, leaves trace evidence all over the place and can be clumsy.

If there was a contract out on Koethe, I find it difficult to believe that an idiot like Reno would have been employed.

James



"Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage."

"Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set to get the job done. For professional killers, this is time consuming, leaves trace evidence all over the place and can be clumsy."


True and false.

"Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set" yes (and no).

The 'mindset' of a blackbelt with registered hands as 'deadly weapons' is properly purely defensive, but in essence the aim is to be lethal and quickly so. If one forgets about the niceties of it as an art, one can focus on learning certain aspects. It's the opponent or victim that determines the outcome.

- The best defense against a martial artist is to crouch low, punch them in the balls, and run. Fast.

A trained killer need only surprise, and a blow to disable, and then do the killing. All that may show is some bruising and perhaps a broken hyoid.

"Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage." - if only it was true.

However not necessarily so. Even 'gentler arts', unlike Karate, (which is meant to be lethel), like Wing Chun for example, can deliver devastating blows, sometimes more so than Karate. However the training and discipline would be beyond the average thug, and a reputable teacher would have nothing to do with them in the first place.

The Military and Agencies is another matter, where the 'pure essence' of the Martial Art is dropped as a matter of course.

Edited by John Dolva, 08 July 2007 - 07:30 PM.


#10 Kathleen Collins

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 08:41 PM

Jack,

Technically, there is no such thing as a 'karate chop'. That was something Maxwell Smart used to knock KAOS agents out with. :ph34r:

Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage.

Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set to get the job done. For professional killers, this is time consuming, leaves trace evidence all over the place and can be clumsy.

If there was a contract out on Koethe, I find it difficult to believe that an idiot like Reno would have been employed.

James


I have Karyn Kupcinet's autopsy report. All the damage was done to her left side throat, leaving the coronor to say the man was very strong, held her from behind and was possibly left handed.

I had read about a method of killing someone which would fit right into the coronor's conclusion. It's called the sleeper method. She was grabbed from behind with an arm around her throat to cut off the carotid artery on her left side. Death is supposed to be very quick with this method. And the killer has to be very strong. But how hard could it have been to subdue a heavily drugged, petite girl.

I truly fear that in Karyn's case, it was a hit. Irv Kupcinet had what other journalists didn't. He knew everybody in Chicago! He got a handle on Ruby and was going to run with it. Then his daughter turned up dead.

And there were many suspects because she entertained 2 young men that night; good friends of her boyfriend, who didn't want to see her anymore. Also, a new neighbor downstairs had moved in. He was caught in a lie by the police. And he was found to have arrived home drunk about 12:30 am, when the murder happened. Plus another fellow came to see her Friday, but she didn't answer her door so he put a book he was returning (Henry Miller) on her doormat. And she had a boyfriend in Pomona (I hope that's the right spelling). It turned out he had a good 100% alibi.

If you were a hitman, I think you'd hang around and watch her habits. When the 2 men left, the killer struck shortly afterwards. They would be to blame.

The left side of her neck was greatly damaged internally-- her thyroid and other structures on that side. And the hyoid bone was broken. There were no indications of rape, but they found a "copious" amount of a whitish substance in her vagina, which had decomposed and was of no help in finding the killer.

If it is true that she wasn't raped, what motive would any of her friends have to kill her? Methamphetamine in the medicine cabinet? If it was one of the suspects, the drug was easily available as she kept her pills behind the bathroom mirror. Why kill her?

And I think there are killers, employed by Intel, who can administer a karate chop to the neck and kill somebody easily.

Kathy

#11 Terry Mauro

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 09:47 PM

Jack,

Technically, there is no such thing as a 'karate chop'. That was something Maxwell Smart used to knock KAOS agents out with. :ph34r:

Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage.

Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set to get the job done. For professional killers, this is time consuming, leaves trace evidence all over the place and can be clumsy.

If there was a contract out on Koethe, I find it difficult to believe that an idiot like Reno would have been employed.

James


I have Karyn Kupcinet's autopsy report. All the damage was done to her left side throat, leaving the coronor to say the man was very strong, held her from behind and was possibly left handed.

I had read about a method of killing someone which would fit right into the coronor's conclusion. It's called the sleeper method. She was grabbed from behind with an arm around her throat to cut off the carotid artery on her left side. Death is supposed to be very quick with this method. And the killer has to be very strong. But how hard could it have been to subdue a heavily drugged, petite girl.

I truly fear that in Karyn's case, it was a hit. Irv Kupcinet had what other journalists didn't. He knew everybody in Chicago! He got a handle on Ruby and was going to run with it. Then his daughter turned up dead.

And there were many suspects because she entertained 2 young men that night; good friends of her boyfriend, who didn't want to see her anymore. Also, a new neighbor downstairs had moved in. He was caught in a lie by the police. And he was found to have arrived home drunk about 12:30 am, when the murder happened. Plus another fellow came to see her Friday, but she didn't answer her door so he put a book he was returning (Henry Miller) on her doormat. And she had a boyfriend in Pomona (I hope that's the right spelling). It turned out he had a good 100% alibi.

If you were a hitman, I think you'd hang around and watch her habits. When the 2 men left, the killer struck shortly afterwards. They would be to blame.

The left side of her neck was greatly damaged internally-- her thyroid and other structures on that side. And the hyoid bone was broken. There were no indications of rape, but they found a "copious" amount of a whitish substance in her vagina, which had decomposed and was of no help in finding the killer.

If it is true that she wasn't raped, what motive would any of her friends have to kill her? Methamphetamine in the medicine cabinet? If it was one of the suspects, the drug was easily available as she kept her pills behind the bathroom mirror. Why kill her?

And I think there are killers, employed by Intel, who can administer a karate chop to the neck and kill somebody easily.

Kathy


********************************************************************

"There were no indications of rape, but they found a "copious" amount of a whitish substance in her vagina, which had decomposed and was of no help in finding the killer."

Then, why bring it up?

"If it is true that she wasn't raped, what motive would any of her friends have to kill her? Methamphetamine in the medicine cabinet? If it was one of the suspects, the drug was easily available as she kept her pills behind the bathroom mirror. Why kill her?"

Why, indeed. How did she score her speed? By prescription, or Black Market? If by prescription, no motive, that is, unless she ran around with a bunch of speed freaks who were mainly interested in ripping off her stash. And even then, they could've done that behind her back without having to resort to knocking her out, let alone murdering her. If by Black Market, maybe she hadn't paid her distributor in a timely manner. What does her apparent speed habit have to do with any of this, anyway? Was she killed because she was a "tweak," who might talk? And if so, "talk" about what?

I could see the intrigue, had the drug of choice been "cocaine," or even, "heroin." There was a lucrative market for those substances in the early 1960's. But, prescription speed, diet pills? That could be equivalent to scoring weed, or acid, back in those days. It wasn't even classified as a "3" substance until the Reagan administration decided to "Just Say No." And, the DEA didn't really get to cut its teeth in the drug trafficking world until the mid 1970's when they tried to saturate Oakland with cocaine and this new process, known as "crack."

So. unless someone can shed some light on the reason why Karyn Kupcinet's "diet pill" habit, and not say, a "cocaine" or "heroin" habit may have figured in on her demise, I don't know if I quite follow this line of inquiry. James?

#12 Kathleen Collins

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 10:10 PM

Jack,

Technically, there is no such thing as a 'karate chop'. That was something Maxwell Smart used to knock KAOS agents out with. :ph34r:

Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage.

Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set to get the job done. For professional killers, this is time consuming, leaves trace evidence all over the place and can be clumsy.

If there was a contract out on Koethe, I find it difficult to believe that an idiot like Reno would have been employed.

James


I have Karyn Kupcinet's autopsy report. All the damage was done to her left side throat, leaving the coronor to say the man was very strong, held her from behind and was possibly left handed.

I had read about a method of killing someone which would fit right into the coronor's conclusion. It's called the sleeper method. She was grabbed from behind with an arm around her throat to cut off the carotid artery on her left side. Death is supposed to be very quick with this method. And the killer has to be very strong. But how hard could it have been to subdue a heavily drugged, petite girl.

I truly fear that in Karyn's case, it was a hit. Irv Kupcinet had what other journalists didn't. He knew everybody in Chicago! He got a handle on Ruby and was going to run with it. Then his daughter turned up dead.

And there were many suspects because she entertained 2 young men that night; good friends of her boyfriend, who didn't want to see her anymore. Also, a new neighbor downstairs had moved in. He was caught in a lie by the police. And he was found to have arrived home drunk about 12:30 am, when the murder happened. Plus another fellow came to see her Friday, but she didn't answer her door so he put a book he was returning (Henry Miller) on her doormat. And she had a boyfriend in Pomona (I hope that's the right spelling). It turned out he had a good 100% alibi.

If you were a hitman, I think you'd hang around and watch her habits. When the 2 men left, the killer struck shortly afterwards. They would be to blame.

The left side of her neck was greatly damaged internally-- her thyroid and other structures on that side. And the hyoid bone was broken. There were no indications of rape, but they found a "copious" amount of a whitish substance in her vagina, which had decomposed and was of no help in finding the killer.

If it is true that she wasn't raped, what motive would any of her friends have to kill her? Methamphetamine in the medicine cabinet? If it was one of the suspects, the drug was easily available as she kept her pills behind the bathroom mirror. Why kill her?

And I think there are killers, employed by Intel, who can administer a karate chop to the neck and kill somebody easily.

Kathy


********************************************************************

"There were no indications of rape, but they found a "copious" amount of a whitish substance in her vagina, which had decomposed and was of no help in finding the killer."

Then, why bring it up?

"If it is true that she wasn't raped, what motive would any of her friends have to kill her? Methamphetamine in the medicine cabinet? If it was one of the suspects, the drug was easily available as she kept her pills behind the bathroom mirror. Why kill her?"

Why, indeed. How did she score her speed? By prescription, or Black Market? If by prescription, no motive, that is, unless she ran around with a bunch of speed freaks who were mainly interested in ripping off her stash. And even then, they could've done that behind her back without having to resort to knocking her out, let alone murdering her. If by Black Market, maybe she hadn't paid her distributor in a timely manner. What does her apparent speed habit have to do with any of this, anyway? Was she killed because she was a "tweak," who might talk? And if so, "talk" about what?

I could see the intrigue, had the drug of choice been "cocaine," or even, "heroin." There was a lucrative market for those substances in the early 1960's. But, prescription speed, diet pills? That could be equivalent to scoring weed, or acid, back in those days. It wasn't even classified as a "3" substance until the Reagan administration decided to "Just Say No." And, the DEA didn't really get to cut its teeth in the drug trafficking world until the mid 1970's when they tried to saturate Oakland with cocaine and this new process, known as "crack."

So. unless someone can shed some light on the reason why Karyn Kupcinet's "diet pill" habit, and not say, a "cocaine" or "heroin" habit may have figured in on her demise, I don't know if I quite follow this line of inquiry. James?


I bring up the rape scenario for purposes of motive. Did she have sex that night? And if so, with whom? Did this person kill her because she thwarted his intentions?

I disagree with you about diet pills. She was taking Methamphetamine. Speed has often been associated with sudden, violent rage. I think of the case of Army Doctor Jeffrey McDonald or imo O.J. Simpson. She may have been very stoned, not thinking straight. She doctor shopped, so had several prescriptions. But if she did buy from the black market, it might explain the walk she took that night while she had a guest in her house. A woman that distraught is not going to stop and exercise. Where did she go? To the Sunset Strip? To the Rain Check Room, where her friends usually hung out? Did she "score" there? Or maybe the guy was going to come through for her around midnight. But she seemed surprised at the knock on the door. Just getting out of the shower, throwing on a bathrobe.

Terry, it is my opinion that she was murdered to crush her dad and keep him away from the Chicago angle of the Assassination. But one must go through all possible scenarios. The murder was never solved. And the Kupcinets' main suspect is dead.

Kathy

#13 Terry Mauro

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 11:32 PM

Jack,

Technically, there is no such thing as a 'karate chop'. That was something Maxwell Smart used to knock KAOS agents out with. :ph34r:

Many different styles of martial arts utilize knife hand strikes but they don't do a great deal of damage.

Killing a person with one's bare hands is a very difficult thing to do and requires a great deal of training and a certain mind set to get the job done. For professional killers, this is time consuming, leaves trace evidence all over the place and can be clumsy.

If there was a contract out on Koethe, I find it difficult to believe that an idiot like Reno would have been employed.

James


I have Karyn Kupcinet's autopsy report. All the damage was done to her left side throat, leaving the coronor to say the man was very strong, held her from behind and was possibly left handed.

I had read about a method of killing someone which would fit right into the coronor's conclusion. It's called the sleeper method. She was grabbed from behind with an arm around her thoat to cut off the carotid artery on her left side. Death is supposed to be very quick with this method. And the killer has to be very strong. But how hard could it have been to subdue a heavily drugged, petite girl.

I truly fear that in Karyn's case, it was a hit. Irv Kupcinet had what other journalists didn't. He knew everybody in Chicago! He got a handle on Ruby and was going to run with it. Then his daughter turned up dead.

And there were many suspects because she entertained 2 young men that night; good friends of her boyfriend, who didn't want to see her anymore. Also, a new neighbor downstairs had moved in. He was caught in a lie by the police. And he was found to have arrived home drunk about 12:30 am, when the murder happened. Plus another fellow came to see her Friday, but she didn't answer her door so he put a book he was returning (Henry Miller) on her doormat. And she had a boyfriend in Pomona (I hope that's the right spelling). It turned out he had a good 100% alibi.

If you were a hitman, I think you'd hang around and watch her habits. When the 2 men left, the killer struck shortly afterwards. They would be to blame.

The left side of her neck was greatly damaged internally-- her thyroid and other structures on that side. And the hyoid bone was broken. There were no indications of rape, but they found a "copious" amount of a whitish substance in her vagina, which had decomposed and was of no help in finding the killer.

If it is true that she wasn't raped, what motive would any of her friends have to kill her? Methamphetamine in the medicine cabinet? If it was one of the suspects, the drug was easily available as she kept her pills behind the bathroom mirror. Why kill her?

And I think there are killers, employed by Intel, who can administer a karate chop to the neck and kill somebody easily.

Kathy


********************************************************************

"There were no indications of rape, but they found a "copious" amount of a whitish substance in her vagina, which had decomposed and was of no help in finding the killer."

Then, why bring it up?

"If it is true that she wasn't raped, what motive would any of her friends have to kill her? Methamphetamine in the medicine cabinet? If it was one of the suspects, the drug was easily available as she kept her pills behind the bathroom mirror. Why kill her?"

Why, indeed. How did she score her speed? By prescription, or Black Market? If by prescription, no motive, that is, unless she ran around with a bunch of speed freaks who were mainly interested in ripping off her stash. And even then, they could've done that behind her back without having to resort to knocking her out, let alone murdering her. If by Black Market, maybe she hadn't paid her distributor in a timely manner. What does her apparent speed habit have to do with any of this, anyway? Was she killed because she was a "tweak," who might talk? And if so, "talk" about what?

I could see the intrigue, had the drug of choice been "cocaine," or even, "heroin." There was a lucrative market for those substances in the early 1960's. But, prescription speed, diet pills? That could be equivalent to scoring weed, or acid, back in those days. It wasn't even classified as a "3" substance until the Reagan administration decided to "Just Say No." And, the DEA didn't really get to cut its teeth in the drug trafficking world until the mid 1970's when they tried to saturate Oakland with cocaine and this new process, known as "crack."

So. unless someone can shed some light on the reason why Karyn Kupcinet's "diet pill" habit, and not say, a "cocaine" or "heroin" habit may have figured in on her demise, I don't know if I quite follow this line of inquiry. James?


I bring up the rape scenario for purposes of motive. Did she have sex that night? And if so, with whom? Did this person kill her because she thwarted his intentions?

I disagree with you about diet pills. She was taking Methamphetamine. Speed has often been associated with sudden, violent rage. I think of the case of Army Doctor Jeffrey McDonald or imo O.J. Simpson. She may have been very stoned, not thinking straight. She doctor shopped, so had several prescriptions. But if she did buy from the black market, it might explain the walk she took that night while she had a guest in her house. A woman that distraught is not going to stop and exercise. Where did she go? To the Sunset Strip? To the Rain Check Room, where her friends usually hung out? Did she "score" there? Or maybe the guy was going to come through for her around midnight. But she seemed surprised at the knock on the door. Just getting out of the shower, throwing on a bathrobe.

Terry, it is my opinion that she was murdered to crush her dad and keep him away from the Chicago angle of the Assassination. But one must go through all possible scenarios. The murder was never solved. And the Kupcinets' main suspect is dead.

Kathy


********************************************************************

"Speed has often been associated with sudden, violent rage."

If she was the one who was supposed to have been a "speed freak," what would she have been "enraged" about?

"I think of the case of Army Doctor Jeffrey McDonald or imo O.J. Simpson."

Pardon my utter stupidity, but I was under the impression that the drug of choice, in those instances, was cocaine.

"...she was murdered to crush her dad and keep him away from the Chicago angle of the Assassination."

And, he finally clammed up about it? Why would that stop him? If anything, he might have gotten himself into a witness protection program and been able to "ghost write" his own version of what he thought happened, or did the Feds warn him to put a lid on it, as well? What kind of a columnist or news anchor was he, anyway? A "Larry King" type of a format? I forget. Maybe that's why it seems so insignificant in the realm of everything else surrounding this case.

I hope you're right, and I hope you find what you're looking for. And, most of all, I hope it's in direct relevance to the case in point. Otherwise, Kupcinet could go down in history known as someone too scared to have avenged the death of his own daughter. Which would seem preposterous to me, considering the fact that he might also risk appearing to be some lily-livered chicken Sugar-Honey-Iced-Tea, for allowing himself to be cowed by the mob. Was his life, or his wife's, or his whole damned family's lives that much more important than to have passed on an investigation he had already embarked upon. Especially, coming right on the heels of his daughter's death?

A daughter is a daughter, regardless of whether she's a whore, a drug addict, an alcoholic, or a common thief. If there's one thing the mob believes in, it's HONOR. HONOR, and FAMILY. If the term "outraged," could be used in the proper perspective here, it should have been Irv Kupcinet, who should have gone after those he suspected of killing his daughter, of attacking the sanctity of his FAMILY, and with a vengeance. HONOR, a virtue of which Irv Kupcinet seems to be glaringly lacking, therein. Someone, FWIW, who obviously never knew the binding promise in the words, to "swear on my daughter's life." He's lucky he didn't end up sleeping with the fishes, himself. At least, that's the way he seems to be coming across from this end of the spectrum. If you want respect, you've got to earn it.

#14 Kathleen Collins

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 03:13 AM

[quote name='Terry Mauro' post='109366' date='Jul 9 2007, 12:32 AM'][quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='109356' date='Jul 8 2007, 09:10 PM'][quote name='Terry Mauro' post='109352' date='Jul 8 2007, 10:47 PM'][quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='109346' date='Jul 8 2007, 07:41 PM'][quote name='James Richards' post='109246' date='Jul 8 2007, 04:26 AM']


"Speed has often been associated with sudden, violent rage."

If she was the one who was supposed to have been a "speed freak," what would she have been "enraged" about?

I was just trying to tell you how potent is Desoxyn or Crystal Meth.

"I think of the case of Army Doctor Jeffrey McDonald or imo O.J. Simpson."

Pardon my utter stupidity, but I was under the impression that the drug of choice, in those instances, was cocaine.

Absolutely not. Dr. McDonald was taking a lot of speed because of the hours they make new doctors work in hospitals. OJ Simpson went to a fast food place with Kato to buy some Methamphetamine. Kato lied about that. Otherwise, I don't see how Simpson could do such a savage thing in such a short period of time unless his blood was raging. It was superhuman.

"...she was murdered to crush her dad and keep him away from the Chicago angle of the Assassination."

Irv was always angry at himself for not bringing in a private detective. The cops talked him out of it. It's possible that Irv didn't think his mobster friends would do something like that to him -- if it was the mob behind the hit. They offered to go to L.A. and find out more of what happened to her. Irv declined. Irv knew enough not to ask a favor of the Mafia. You always owe them. Irv did take thousands of gifts from his audience and people who wanted to get in good with him -- a mention in his column -- like at Christmas time.

Irv was in complete denial imo. He would take gifts from anyone -- not the policy today -- but he stayed away from the Mob. I never confirmed this, but somebody said he never discussed the Assassination again in his column until JFK came out and he was outraged. There was no conspiracy.

****************************************
And, he finally clammed up about it? Why would that stop him? If anything, he might have gotten himself into a witness protection program and been able to "ghost write" his own version of what he thought happened, or did the Feds warn him to put a lid on it, as well? What kind of a columnist or news anchor was he, anyway? A "Larry King" type of a format? I forget. Maybe that's why it seems so insignificant in the realm of everything else surrounding this case.

Your solution is too far fetched. Who wants to stay in seclusion for the rest of their lives? What would he do? Irv had Kup's Show where he invited celebs and people from all walks of life and they would talk until they ran out of things to say. Later, he chopped it down to one hour. It was a late night program. He also had a column in the Chicago-Sun-Times. Basically, it was a gossip column. But Irv thought of himself as a serious journalist. He was the first to tell the public about DeLorean, who was trafficking in drugs. DeLorean made that car where the doors opened up from the top. Johnny Carson had one. DeLorean was married to an ex-model. She left him and quickly married another man. I think her name was Christine. She did some movies like The Impossible Years, 1968, written by Groucho Marx's son. --Kathy

At night, Irv would go out on the town with his glamourous wife, the red-headed Essee, a former dancer with a college degree. As a young woman, she was like today's Paris Hilton. It was all about being pretty and being seen. This her grandson said. The night clubs served as a venue for visiting celebs who had a stopover in Chicago. It was fodder for his column. He really lived a great life and was in 2 movies: Advise and Consent and Anatomy of a Murder, directed by his good friend Otto Preminger. -- Kathy


I hope you're right, and I hope you find what you're looking for. And, most of all, I hope it's in direct relevance to the case in point. Otherwise, Kupcinet could go down in history known as someone too scared to have avenged the death of his own daughter. Which would seem preposterous to me, considering the fact that he might also risk appearing to be some lily-livered chicken Sugar-Honey-Iced-Tea, for allowing himself to be cowed by the mob. Was his life, or his wife's, or his whole damned family's lives that much more important than to have passed on an investigation he had already embarked upon. Especially, coming right on the heels of his daughter's death?

Are you serious? Yes, he must have feared for his family. He had a son Jerry and a beautiful, if ireverent, wife. Kupcinet will go down in history as being a great Humanitarian. He had so many friends. He never wrote anything bad about anyone, unless it was Andrew Prine or the late David Lange. -- Kathy

A daughter is a daughter, regardless of whether she's a whore, a drug addict, an alcoholic, or a common thief. If there's one thing the mob believes in, it's HONOR. HONOR, and FAMILY. If the term "outraged," could be used in the proper perspective here, it should have been Irv Kupcinet, who should have gone after those he suspected of killing his daughter, of attacking the sanctity of his FAMILY, and with a vengeance. HONOR, a virtue of which Irv Kupcinet seems to be glaringly lacking, therein.

You are absolutely wrong! He will go down in history as a great man. Irv wasn't a Mob member, but he was a Zionist; and I think it hurt him when Cookie (Karyn) had to get a nose job for Hollywood. She had his features -- including what some people would call a Jewish nose. The rhinoplasty killed him. Don Rickles was on his show one time in the '80's and said, "Irv eats birdfeed for breakfast." Then Rickles made pecking motions with his head. It was funny, but Irv wasn't laughing. Not at all. -- Kathy

Someone, FWIW, who obviously never knew the binding promise in the words, to "swear on my daughter's life." He's lucky he didn't end up sleeping with the fishes, himself. At least, that's the way he seems to be coming across from this end of the spectrum. If you want respect, you've got to earn it.[/quote]

Irv had everyone's respect. He'd been a professional football player. He'd been an innovator on TV. He was a referree in Football and a sports announcer. He wrote everyone's favorite column. People would open the newspaper to read him first.

I feel the opposite -- a person has my respect until they do something to destroy it. I loved Irv and miss him.

Kathy

#15 Terry Mauro

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 05:09 AM

[quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='109382' date='Jul 9 2007, 02:13 AM'][quote name='Terry Mauro' post='109366' date='Jul 9 2007, 12:32 AM'][quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='109356' date='Jul 8 2007, 09:10 PM'][quote name='Terry Mauro' post='109352' date='Jul 8 2007, 10:47 PM'][quote name='Kathleen Collins' post='109346' date='Jul 8 2007, 07:41 PM'][quote name='James Richards' post='109246' date='Jul 8 2007, 04:26 AM']


"Speed has often been associated with sudden, violent rage."

If she was the one who was supposed to have been a "speed freak," what would she have been "enraged" about?

I was just trying to tell you how potent is Desoxyn or Crystal Meth.

"I think of the case of Army Doctor Jeffrey McDonald or imo O.J. Simpson."

Pardon my utter stupidity, but I was under the impression that the drug of choice, in those instances, was cocaine.

Absolutely not. Dr. McDonald was taking a lot of speed because of the hours they make new doctors work in hospitals. OJ Simpson went to a fast food place with Kato to buy some Methamphetamine. Kato lied about that. Otherwise, I don't see how Simpson could do such a savage thing in such a short period of time unless his blood was raging. It was superhuman.

"...she was murdered to crush her dad and keep him away from the Chicago angle of the Assassination."

Irv was always angry at himself for not bringing in a private detective. The cops talked him out of it. It's possible that Irv didn't think his mobster friends would do something like that to him -- if it was the mob behind the hit. They offered to go to L.A. and find out more of what happened to her. Irv declined. Irv knew enough not to ask a favor of the Mafia. You always owe them. Irv did take thousands of gifts from his audience and people who wanted to get in good with him -- a mention in his column -- like at Christmas time.

Irv was in complete denial imo. He would take gifts from anyone -- not the policy today -- but he stayed away from the Mob. I never confirmed this, but somebody said he never discussed the Assassination again in his column until JFK came out and he was outraged. There was no conspiracy.

****************************************
And, he finally clammed up about it? Why would that stop him? If anything, he might have gotten himself into a witness protection program and been able to "ghost write" his own version of what he thought happened, or did the Feds warn him to put a lid on it, as well? What kind of a columnist or news anchor was he, anyway? A "Larry King" type of a format? I forget. Maybe that's why it seems so insignificant in the realm of everything else surrounding this case.

Your solution is too far fetched. Who wants to stay in seclusion for the rest of their lives? What would he do? Irv had Kup's Show where he invited celebs and people from all walks of life and they would talk until they ran out of things to say. Later, he chopped it down to one hour. It was a late night program. He also had a column in the Chicago-Sun-Times. Basically, it was a gossip column. But Irv thought of himself as a serious journalist. He was the first to tell the public about DeLorean, who was trafficking in drugs. DeLorean made that car where the doors opened up from the top. Johnny Carson had one. DeLorean was married to an ex-model. She left him and quickly married another man. I think her name was Christine. She did some movies like The Impossible Years, 1968, written by Groucho Marx's son. --Kathy

At night, Irv would go out on the town with his glamourous wife, the red-headed Essee, a former dancer with a college degree. As a young woman, she was like today's Paris Hilton. It was all about being pretty and being seen. This her grandson said. The night clubs served as a venue for visiting celebs who had a stopover in Chicago. It was fodder for his column. He really lived a great life and was in 2 movies: Advise and Consent and Anatomy of a Murder, directed by his good friend Otto Preminger. -- Kathy


I hope you're right, and I hope you find what you're looking for. And, most of all, I hope it's in direct relevance to the case in point. Otherwise, Kupcinet could go down in history known as someone too scared to have avenged the death of his own daughter. Which would seem preposterous to me, considering the fact that he might also risk appearing to be some lily-livered chicken Sugar-Honey-Iced-Tea, for allowing himself to be cowed by the mob. Was his life, or his wife's, or his whole damned family's lives that much more important than to have passed on an investigation he had already embarked upon. Especially, coming right on the heels of his daughter's death?

Are you serious? Yes, he must have feared for his family. He had a son Jerry and a beautiful, if ireverent, wife. Kupcinet will go down in history as being a great Humanitarian. He had so many friends. He never wrote anything bad about anyone, unless it was Andrew Prine or the late David Lange. -- Kathy

A daughter is a daughter, regardless of whether she's a whore, a drug addict, an alcoholic, or a common thief. If there's one thing the mob believes in, it's HONOR. HONOR, and FAMILY. If the term "outraged," could be used in the proper perspective here, it should have been Irv Kupcinet, who should have gone after those he suspected of killing his daughter, of attacking the sanctity of his FAMILY, and with a vengeance. HONOR, a virtue of which Irv Kupcinet seems to be glaringly lacking, therein.

You are absolutely wrong! He will go down in history as a great man. Irv wasn't a Mob member, but he was a Zionist; and I think it hurt him when Cookie (Karyn) had to get a nose job for Hollywood. She had his features -- including what some people would call a Jewish nose. The rhinoplasty killed him. Don Rickles was on his show one time in the '80's and said, "Irv eats birdfeed for breakfast." Then Rickles made pecking motions with his head. It was funny, but Irv wasn't laughing. Not at all. -- Kathy

Someone, FWIW, who obviously never knew the binding promise in the words, to "swear on my daughter's life." He's lucky he didn't end up sleeping with the fishes, himself. At least, that's the way he seems to be coming across from this end of the spectrum. If you want respect, you've got to earn it.[/quote]

Irv had everyone's respect. He'd been a professional football player. He'd been an innovator on TV. He was a referree in Football and a sports announcer. He wrote everyone's favorite column. People would open the newspaper to read him first.

I feel the opposite -- a person has my respect until they do something to destroy it. I loved Irv and miss him.

Kathy
[/quote]

******************************************************************************

"OJ Simpson went to a fast food place with Kato to buy some Methamphetamine. Kato lied about that. Otherwise, I don't see how Simpson could do such a savage thing in such a short period of time unless his blood was raging. It was superhuman."

O.J.'s son, Jason committed the murders. Nicole was a raging coke-head, which is why O.J. left her in the first place. Her, and her floozy of a sister, and their high-class hooker friend, Fran Resnick. Goldman's girlfriend was an Ultrasound tech in one of the hospital's I worked at. She, and the Goldman's, came west from Palm Beach, FL a year or two before the murders. Goldman was an "aspiring" actor who bussed tables at Mezzaluna, which also served as a clandestine business-distribution center for his "other" customers, such as Nicole Simpson. His girlfriend, the U/S tech, drove a late model Porsche Carrera. She hated Nicole. The last time I saw her she was packing some boxes off for the post office, "Christmas presents," and left town headed back to Florida in December 1994. Cocaine alters the binding sites in the brain, permanently by causing a glitch in the DNA chain of the body's cellular system, so that each new cell becomes embedded with the new link in the DNA chain, making it virtually impossible for the neurotransmitter enzymes to recognize the newly altered binding sites. Henceforth, making it virtually impossible to kick the habit. Much the same as those other two drugs which happen to be legal and just as hard to kick, nicotine, and alcohol.

"At night, Irv would go out on the town with his glamourous wife, the red-headed Essee, a former dancer with a college degree. As a young woman, she was like today's Paris Hilton. It was all about being pretty and being seen. This her grandson said. The night clubs served as a venue for visiting celebs who had a stopover in Chicago. It was fodder for his column. He really lived a great life and was in 2 movies: Advise and Consent and Anatomy of a Murder, directed by his good friend Otto Preminger. --"

That's not saying very much about someone whose daughter has been murdered. Especially, the way you portray this family's shallow, ignorant behavior. I, for one, had never even heard of Irv Kupcinet until I hit the forums. I never remember him on any of the sportscasts out of New York, or L.A. So, what exactly was he? An actor? A talk show host? A sportscaster? A minor celebrity-about-town? Chicago? If he lived such a great life, and his wife was so beautiful, how come they couldn't save their daughter from a fate worse than death, which is what it seems to be wreaking of, at this late date?

If you were a friend of the family's, why didn't you speak up about the dysfunction you apparently were witness to, at the time. I mean, after all, you couldn't have been that star-struck with Essee to not have brought to her attention what seemed to be her total lack of empathy for her own daughter, let alone how obvious it might have appeared to outsiders. I mean, like what exactly was her take on all of this? It seems as if it was more of a bother to her than a tragedy. Like, "Oh my poor, little, pudgy daughter has now found peace." Or, more likely, "Well, at least I won't have to be embarrassed any longer by this dumpy little thing I brought into the world."

For such wonderful people as you seem to make them out to be, I fail to note any redeeming aspects of their personalities that might lead me to believe they were nothing more than self-absorbed limelight addicts, more interested in their public personnas than in what their superficial attitudes may have wrought along with the effects they may have had, on their not-so-spectacular little girl.

Edited by Terry Mauro, 09 July 2007 - 05:10 AM.





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