Guest Tom Scully Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 "Dad" was personnel director at CIA, "Mom" was prominent in the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, "spook fest". But Nina Burleigh's book is painted here as a "limited hangout"? http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/MA-128/ A POSTWAR VISION REALIZED: With rapid suburbanization imminent, the value of Route 128 soon became apparent. In 1948, Gerald W. Blakely, Jr., the son of a Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor and head of the industrial development division of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes, obtained a copy of the Master Highway Plan. He envisioned that for the newly high-tech industries of the postwar era, the value of Route 128 and other proposed highways lie in their proximity to MIT..... http://home.us.archi...67cali_djvu.txt118 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA printed in the press, the pattern of leadership was ap- parent. Business establishments in the East Bay became dis- turbed as, from the campus sanctuary at Berkeley, thou- sands of marchers entered the Berkeley and Oakland com- munities, attracting huge crowds, jamming the streets, forcing hundreds of police officers and National Guards- men to line the course of the marches, and creating all the emotional tensions that inevitably accompany such demonstrations. In late October, Gerald W. Blakely told the Industrial Development Conference in San Francisco that ''Berkeley's continuing protests against the political and social order have become a major deterrent in Cali- fornia's drive to attract industry. "^^ Charges that the University at Berkeley was being used as a breeding place for off -campus lawlessness were an- swered by President Kerr from Riverside, where he had been attending a Regents' meeting. He said: "If there are individuals who have knowledge of illegal acts on any campus, these persons should bring such actions to the at- tention of the appropriate law enforcement agencies as well as to the chancellor of the campus involved. ' ' '^^ The abdication of responsibility for maintaining order and discipline at Berkeley appears to be the confession of a weak administration. It tried — and failed — to maintain order and discipline during the rebellion of 1964-1965; then it rescinded the rules it was unable to enforce, and sought to shift its own responsibilities to the police de- partments of Oakland and Berkeley. Each of the Univer- sity's campuses has its own police department, and the members wear uniforms, have guns, and are authorized to make arrests under the supervision of the University's administration. There was a time — before FSM — when the campuses effectively handled their own law enforcement problems, and if necessary called in other agencies for assistance. That situation now appears to have been re- versed. In the name of free speech, civil liberties and academic freedom, the campus at Berkeley has been harboring radi- cals who have no connection with the institution, and who are allowed to use the state facilities without paying any ®^ San Francisco Chronicle, October 22, 1965. TO Oakland Tribune, November 20, 1965. http://www.democracy...ffort_by_reagan Investigative journalist Seth Rosenfeld’s new book, "Subversives: The FBI’s War on Student Radicals, and Reagan’s Rise to Power," is based on more than 300,000 pages of records Rosenfeld received over three decades through five Freedom of Information lawsuits against the FBI. The book tracks how then-FBI director J. Edgar Hoover ordered his agents to investigate and then disrupt the Free Speech Movement that began in 1964 on the Berkeley campus of the University of California. In part two of our interview, Rosenfeld discusses how Ronald Reagan collaborated with the FBI to target California’s student movement and strengthen Reagan’s own rise to power. Click here to watch part 1. [includes rush transcript] http://supportunited...ustry-breakfastEvent will honor Gerald Blakely, Jr. and the Late Edward H. Linde10/25/2010BOSTON - On Thursday, October 28th at 8 a.m., Mort Zuckerman, co-founder chairman and CEO of Boston Properties, publisher of the New York Daily News, and editor of U.S. News and World Report, will address at the region's top real estate and building industry companies at a United Way leadership breakfast. At the breakfast, President of Blakely Investments Gerald Blakely and Edward Linde, the late CEO of Boston Properties will be honored for their long-standing commitment to the community.The event provides Zuckerman with an opportunity to honor his late friend and colleague Ed Linde who died in January at the age of 68. Linde and Zuckerman co-founded Boston Properties more than 40 years ago. Linde will be honored by United Way and the Real Estate & Building Industry for his life-long commitment to improving the Greater Boston community and the advancement of charitable organizations, including United Way, Beth Israel Hospital, the Boston Symphony Orchestra and Museum of Fine Arts.At the United Way event, Zuckerman will also honor friend and former colleague Gerald W. Blakeley, President of Blakeley Investment Company, a major investor in real estate. Blakeley has also been a leader philanthropically and civically, serving on the National Board of Governors of the Boys and Girls Clubs of America, the Coast Guard Foundation, and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Zuckerman and Linde both worked for Blakeley when he was CEO of Cabot, Cabot & Forbes.In attendance will be: Premier Sponsor McCall and Almy, Premier Sponsor Moriarty, Special Sponsor Hank & Ann Spaulding, The Beal Companies, Nutter, McClennen & Fish, Terra Nova Partners, Goulston & Storrs, Forest City Boston, Jones Lang LaSalle, FHO Partners, Boston Properties, Rockpoint Group, The Davis Companies and Marcus Partners, INC. http://www.minormusi...Drugs/Mask.htmlMichael Paine was descended from the Cabots on both his father's and his mother's side; he was thus a second cousin once removed of Thomas Dudley Cabot and a cousin of Alexander Cochrane Forbes, who married a daughter of Warren Delano Robbins (FDR's cousin) and served as a director of United Fruit and trustee of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes. Paul F.Hellmuth (among the first Catholic laymen to serve on the board of Notre Dame), and a vice-president of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes was a trustee of the J. Frederick Brown Foundation, a CIA "conduit", along with G.C. Cabot. Thus the Paine family [had] links with the blue-blood intelligence circles of the OSS and CIA, In the summer of 1963 it was Ruth (Michael's wife), rather than Michael Paine, who maintained close relations with the patrician Paine and Forbes families, traveling east in July to stay with her mother-in-law at the traditional Forbes clan retreat of Naushon Island near Wood's Hole, Massachusetts (CE 416, 17 H 119). [source: Peter Dale Scott, The Dallas Conspiracy, ch. IV, pp. 2-4, as quoted in websites linked above]. Hellmuth's name would appear in 1974 in Jack Anderson's column as the law partner of Richard Nixon's impeachment attorney, allegedly involved in an industrial security company that was "wholly owned" by the CIA and used to shred documents to maintain secrecy. THE STORY BEHIND THE NAME DEVELOPER BEHIND PLANS FOR … Boston Globe - Nov 21, 1999 ... clearing the bond obligations, and in October 1964 Blakeley and associates Paul Hellmuth and Charles Spaulding acquired the Ritz-Carlton for $3.8 million. BUA vs. CC&F: red-faced BSA caught in middle The Economy Boston Globe - Nov 3, 1976 Hellmuth and Gerald W. Blake-. ley Jr., chairman of CC&F, may have to make good on a personal guarantee of a debt of $616000 to the CC&F Land Trust, due ... Boston Globe - Feb 18, 1973 K. Dun Gifford, assistant to Gerald Blakeley, president of CC&F, who did ... to be legal counsel for CC&F and one of its principal partners, Paul Hellmuth, is a vice ... CC&F: A troubled real estate giant Boston Globe - Oct 20, 1976 Still, CC&F will be aided by a much-needed cash injection of about $13 million, which will be ...New England Merchants Bank and the First National Bank of Boston, according to a source in the financial community. This money will enable CC&F to pay off several obligations, including $2 million in back taxes owed to the City of Boston on several downtown locations, particularly One Boston Place and the Ritz Carlton Hotel. Still, a leading banker, familiar with the negotiations, believes the odds on successful completion are only "75 to 80 percent." Even if CC&F is rescued, it is clear that the firm will not be the same high-flying, free-wheeling operation it has been. According to one source, CC&F is undergoing a retrenchment and consolidation that can be described as "voluntary reorganization outside the courts." Blakeley concedes that the firm will "cut back some, and make no more land acquisitions. But he says he hopes the loans being sought by the company will "allow new deals on buildings." . Cabot, Cabot & Forbes, during the 25 years of Blakeley's leadership, has pioneered industrial parks in the United States, contributed heavily to the of Rte. 128 and is responsible responsible for several office towers in downtown Boston. The company, a key factor in the economies of Boston and Massachusetts, made fortunes The banks did not want to push CC&F into bankruptcy, in which its numerous subsidiaries would be difficult to unravel. There was no default because the banks extended their loans "informally," according to Ed- win B. Morris 3d, senior vice president of the First National Bank of Boston At CC&F , the financial crisis triggered a reshuffling of management that may not be over. Blakeley, who was the president, became chairman, and handed over the top operating spot to Ferdinand Colloredo-Mansfeld, a 37-year-old financial expert who was formerly with Brown Bros ... At the June trustees meeting, Blakeley and Paul F. Hellmuth, a large CC&F shareholder, resigned as trustees. Emerson, who had resigned from the development company in May, became the chairman of the land trust s board of trustees. The trustees of the land trust also decided to terminate its contract with CC&F Advisory, a company set up to counsel the land trust. CC&F Advisory, whose principal shareholders are Hellmuth and Blakeley, is now an inactive company with some real estate holdings. Recently, according to Emerson, CC&F has begun to catch up on its ground rents. As for Emerson, he has problems of his own. He is spending most of his time trying to button down a complicated refinancing of $130 million for the land trust, which recorded losses of $14.7 million last year. The refinancing has been pending for more than a year. Behind the scenes are at least three troublesome lawsuits. ...... [*] Silber and his concept of elitism Boston Globe - Nov 12, 1976 ... of whom Silber speaks most highly, Gerald W. Blakely Jr. and Paul Hellmuth, ... CC&F has in recent years built and promoted a very large shop- ping center ... Theodore Chase To Head Boston Bar Association Boston Globe - May 29, 1968 Gardner and Bradford of Theodore Chase of Dover was reelected President of ... James Lynch Jr of Wellesley Paul Hellmuth of Cambridge and Nathan Moger of ... Display Ad 5 -- No Title Boston Globe - Nov 6, 1972 STEERING COMMITTEE Thomas O'Donnell Chairman Theodore Chase Samuel ... Henry Hardy James Heigham Paul Hellmuth Vincent Hennessy Frederick ... Casimir de Rham Jr THEODORE CHASE, ATTORNEY, COMMUNITY LEADER; WAS 90 Pay-Per-View - Boston Globe - Jan 25, 2003 ... Navy's Office of General Counsel in Washington during World War II. In 1945, he returned to Boston and rejoined the Palmer and Dodge law firm as a partner, Miss Prince Is Bride at Peterboro Daily Boston Globe - Jun 14, 1936 afternoon of Miss Priscilla Prince, daughter of Mrs Charles Barnard Prince of ... Mrs Charles Barnard Prince of Cambridge and Dublin and Mr John Adams Bross Mr Maurice Casalis of Lyme Conn was best man for his step-son and the ushers included Mr Gordon Waters of Revere st Mr Theodore Chase of Cambridge Mr John Putnam of Dedham Mr Thomas Adams of Lincoln Mr Horace Gilbert of Peterboro Mr David Crocker of Fitchburg Mr Frederick Dearborn Jr of Cambridge Mr Alfred Harrison and Mr Lloyd Morris Coates of Philadelphia and Mr St John Smith Mr Samuel Spencer and Mr David Rawle of New York ..... JOHN ADAMS Orlando Sentinel - Oct 18, 1990 Bross, a CIA officer for 20 years and a World War II veteran of its predecessor, the ... general counsel to the US high commissioner to Germany before joining the ... John Adams Bross, 79, Lawyer and US Aide - New York Times New York Times - Oct 17, 1990 John Adams Bross Sr., a lawyer and former Federal aide, died ... by his wife, Joanne; MISS JOANNE BASS HAS CHURCH BRIDAL; Daughter of Former... New York Times - Jun 21, 1938... New York and Chicago took place here this afternoon when Miss Joanne Bass of Boston became the bride of Marshall Field Jr., great-grandson of Marshall . Background: About 31 results (0.26 seconds) Paul Hellmuth, Agent for CIA Funds - JFK Assassination Debate ... educationforum.ipbhost.com › ... › JFK Assassination DebateAug 20, 2007 – Paul Hellmuth, Agent for CIA Funds - posted in JFK Assassination Debate: New York Times, August 7, 1986: Paul F. Hellmuth, former ... You've visited this page 3 times. Last visit: 7/6/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Charles-Dunne Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Jim has raised a good number of points that deserve a reply. Due to limitations on the number of quotes allowed per post, I must reply in portions, with apologies for the delay in responding. Life often intrudes upon one's plans. The above is a defensible position of course. It leaves us precisely where we were before Janney's book came out. Which is where I think this case should be. Since I believe, and advanced multiple arguments for the superstructure of ideas he built around the case being nothing but hogwash. One can argue for or against Crump's guilt, one can say that the case is unsolved. “One can argue for or against Crump’s guilt?” In order to argue for it, one would need evidence to support the accusation, the very thing you’ve yet to provide. But no one can read Janney's book and deduce that is what he is saying. He is not at all. So I find this kind of unfair: What’s "unfair" is that you accuse Crump of murder without a single additional piece of evidence, over and above that which resulted in him obtaining a verdict of not guilty. But you are the victim, here, right? "That cluster of festering animosity to which you allude has its genesis a half decade back, when Jim first issued his fatwah on “con men” who pollute the research community, and then named, among others, Janney and John Simkin. Of course, Jim was going to eviscerate the book when it was published; he had set course in that direction five years before the book appeared." I set course on eviscerating a book before I read it? This leaves out two important points: 1.) I had some knowledge of what the book was going to be like in advance. 2.) If Janney had written a more balanced book with more credible sources and taken say a Rashomon approach to the case--A is what may have happened, B is what may have happened, C is what may have happened--would I have written the same thing? Of course not. IMO, Janney took the most extreme position one could take. He does not say that Crump is innocent. He says that Crump was framed! That makes a huge difference. And this is a point that you and Hogan avoid with a rigor that is so strict that its formal. And Lisa took him to task on a part of this issue. And she did it effectively. Another point you avoid. I don’t know how many ways to say the same thing before it sinks in with you. Janney saying Crump was framed may or may not be accurate, in and of itself, but in either event it doesn’t make Crump guilty. That’s where you come in, to declare him guilty absent any legally persuasive evidence. The fact that Janney may or may not commit a billion sins doesn’t allow you to commit the one you are intent upon. HIs book goes far beyond what anyone had written in the field previous to him in that regard. Being a historian, I understand the rules of revisionism. I have lectured on this topic in the JFK field. Why? Because I am sick of cheapjack writers who write historically unprecedented books with little evidence that invariably make us look like horse's asses. Whenever you make a radical break with tradition--and no one can say Janney's book is not that--then you had better have a very solid scaffolding to do that with. Janney not only did not follow that paradigm, he broke about every rule in the historian's guidelines on the way to his absurd denouement. And as a life-long reader of JFK-related material, I am sick of writers who assume they can accuse others of guilt without providing the goods. It is your point against Leo Damore’s “Senatorial Privilege,” and many others. It is not just that they marshal factoids to besmirch the martyred Kennedy brothers; but that they do so on the thinnest strands of evidence. Entirely what you’re doing to Raymond Crump now. But you’re the victim here, right? But you guys don't want to talk about that do you? Even though that is by far the largest part of the book, and really, everything in the work revolves around and points toward that ending. You only want to talk about the case for or against Crump--and then you leave out some things that reveal Janney was wrong on certain points there e.g. Crump and Roundtree's various versions of the "Vivian" story. It is precisely because Michael Hogan and I have made an issue of your treatment of Crump that these “Vivian” contradictions were raised. And not by you. You should be thanking us. And your new fellow traveler, Culto. To be continued.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Charles-Dunne Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Part 2 RCD then says that somehow I have engaged in shoddy behavior because I have called Hogan, MIkey? I have just shown in detail where and when Hogan has been at pains to unfairly and illogically demean me. I did it on three different occasions--and anyone who wants to see it can. In fact, I showed where it was Hogan who first began to lower the standard of debate in this thread. RCD is too biased to acknowledge that. So, as an “historian,” your defensible fallback position is that it’s ok to address others like a petulant prat because the other guy made you do it? Really? How often do other people control your behavior this way? Or is it just that when you’ve been shown to have an empty hand, you resort to vitriolic juvenile name-twisting rather than acknowledge your case against Crump is non-existent? "Yeah, but HE started it" doesn't work for children, let alone adults. But if RCD wants to leave that out then fine and dandy. It shows where he is at in all this. And it shows that his assumed pose as the impartial, and insightful Solomon is just that: a pose and an assumption by him. One that anyone can see through. What one CAN see through is the transparent lack of evidence you have provided for your contentions re: Crump. You could have done a far better job eviscerating Janney had you only chosen to Google Mitchell, as Tom did. Boom. Case closed. You chose instead to prove Crump guilty, and are spiteful toward those who have pointed out your failure in that key respect. So who here is “posing” as something they are not? RCD then writes this: Which is more accurate: Jim’s critiques of Janney’s work or Janney’s critique of Jim’s methods? This is, in reality, a non sequitir. Because as anyone can see, in Janney's nutty screed comparing CTKA to The Spanish Inquisition, Janney does not mention my review. Why? For an historian, you have a shocking reading disability, which has appeared in this thread a half dozen times or so. It is part of the reason you skewer Michael Hogan, because you rush to find the point you wish to make, without realizing you’ve mis-inferred. Rather like when you congratulated Tom on finding things that were actually attributable to a guy named Culto, who you found wholly credible, despite his insistence that JFK was never actually killed. Had you bothered to consider what you were reading in the post you cited that from, you would invariably have seen this: "In almost every post from you or Mike, there is an absolute refusal on your parts to address whether Jim has made more accurate criticisms of Janney, than Janney has of Jim.” I was responding to that comment. It was made by Tom. If you think it’s a non-sequitur, you should really take it up with him. Duh! Maybe Robert because it wasn't posted yet? How you missed an obvious point like that truly escapes me. But when you do something like that its not me whose profile is sinking, its yours. Missing obvious points is your default position in this thread, as shown immediately above. And this is how a self-sustaining feedback loop of error feeds itself. You make a mistake, draw an incorrect assumption, and then think the other poster is nuts for saying what they never did, but you have done. That’s about right, isn’t it? Secondly, who has discussed on this thread, at any length or depth, my critique of Janney? You guys have avoided that like the plague. Then after making this faux pas, you then say its inconsequential to you. That all you care about is the case for or against Crump. Then, as I have repeatedly said, why don't you and Hogan start your own thread! I beg you to do that: START YOUR OWN THREAD!! That would be a thread in which you haven't accused without evidence an already-acquitted man of having committed murder. That’s why THIS is the thread where our posts belong, because THIS is the thread in which you committed that gross overreach. The fact that you have no credible comeback leads you to now demand our segregation to where you are free to avoid being shown up as empty-handed. I can see why that would suit you. But since we long ago were deprived of the opportunity to ask “Questions For Peter Janney,” I will ask them of you. You demand that others put up or shut up all the time. Now the demand is made of you, and you’d like your inquisitors to be moved safely away. To be continued..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Charles-Dunne Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Part 3 of 3 But you do not. And this is the second time I asked you to do that. I will even ask the moderators to start such a thread for you. But you won't do that will you Robert. Why? Then you go after Lisa again, when she is conveniently not here, and say she looked at the footnotes and thought the book unworthy. Again, Duh. Like you have never done that? Like I have never done that? Like others have never done that? If a book is drawn from say the works of PJM and Epstein and the WC do you think that book would be a good bio of Oswald? Probably not. But that describes Oswald's Game pretty accurately does it not? But people plough through it anyway in this field just to be well informed. When someone reads a book that is largely sourced to the likes of TIm Leary, Collier and Horowitz, Ed Klein, and Gregory Douglass etc. does that not mean anything? Yes it does, and anyone who does not think so is a fool. Which Lisa is not. No, she is not. But she made a foolish decision to make the centerpiece of her review - the very first thing on her to-do list - proving Crump’s guilt. Because she didn’t and neither have you, nor Tom. Care to deal with the implications of your failure in this regard, Jim? Or are you just waiting for people to forget this most obvious lack of professionalism on your part? Your arguments here, and your holier than thou attitude that surrounds them have, as I have shown, grown very thin. But yet, you cannot take your own advice: I have no interest in participating in such super-heated, ego-driven flame wars. They invariably generate more heat than light. Which is further evidence that, at least in this regard, the Emperor has no clothes. No the Emperor has no evidence for his contentions re: Crump. And is now demanding that those pointing it out be moved a safe distance away from him so he can pretend none of this ever happened, or is unimportant to his reputation in any event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Jim, I have to agree with RCD on the juvenile nicknames. Even if I felt you were brilliant in your debates with Michael Hogan, the fact you taunt him as "Mikey" ruins your arguments. Maybe I'm the only other one that feels this way, but when someone resorts to such childishness, I lose respect for everything else they're saying, no matter how impressive it might be. I haven't read Janney's book, so I can't really assess it. I agree with you completely about the dubious nature of his sources. However, even if Janney's book is the worst ever written, that doesn't mean that Mary Meyer's death was a random act committed by a career street criminal. I think the fact she was associated in some way with JFK, especially when considered in context with all the other unnatural deaths connected to the Kennedys, ought to make us pause before we conclude that her death had no political significance. Also, I would note that Nina Burleigh is hardly a paragon of independent journalistic integrity. Who can forget her disgusting statement about being willing to sexually service Bill Clinton because he kept abortion legal. That's the attitude of a poltical partisan, not a real journalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Don, I hardly think calling someone a variation fo their first name is enough to negate the weight of the evidence proffered, especially when the party subjected to such a mild taunt does not give an inch, give any credit to the accomplishment of the other side in support of their arguments, even as he posts again, and again, since 2007, how much he generally respects the overall work of the person he minimizes and trivializes the work of. Jim and I shared things about Janney that contradicted his declarations in his posts on this thread and in others in this forum these past six years, and they are repeated in his book. Don, Peter Janney has charge people money to read this.: http://www.bostonglo...AG7M/story.html .....According to both Janney and Smith, Damore had come to believe that Meyer’s killer was a man named William Mitchell. A shadowy figure who testified for the prosecution at Crump’s trial, Mitchell had been in the park at the time of Meyer’s murder yet had vanished in the wind after the trial; efforts to locate him through military records, phone book listings, and other means proved futile. It isn't true, Don, that fact has to lower the credibility of what you are saying you are buying into.... It becomes reasonable to wonder if Janney is who some say Nina Burleigh is. Don, considering Janney's family background, isn't what actually remains of his support for "the CIA assassinated Mary Meyer" less compelling than the idea he may have had more important matters to write about, especially if he is who he claims he is; a rebel against his father's thinking, politics, world view and the CIA that he spent his career with? And he did not because his book is actually crafted as a distraction? What do you see remains, from what he presented in this thread, that is strong enough to fashion a book about a CIA assassination of Meyer? HIs mother was a player at the Woods Hole Institute, and his father certainly was acquainted with the OSS/CIA veterans infesting the place. I don't know about you, but I find this to be grist for the mill, and I'm leaving what I've already said about his uncle, Frank Pace, as is. I did not even get into the history of Paul Hellmuth and Dr. Tom Dooley. John A. Bross and Eli Whitney Debevoise both were assistant counsels to the HICOG at about the same time. McCloy took Debevoise's father's place as John D. Rockefeller, Jr.'s attorney when Debevoise's father, Thomas, retired. Eli Whitney Debevoise's law partner was Francis Plimpton, Plimpton's brother was appointed by McCloy as president of Amherst U. Plimpton's son George (with Cass Canfield's stepson and Peter Matthiessen) was part of what the Tom Dooley propaganda / espionage Op was about, steering and controlling young hearts and minds. Francis Plimpton was implicated with Houghton at the Met. Museum, along with Paul Hellmuth and David B. Stone in the CIA funding of student Orgs ...... Hellmuth, Stone, and Weston Howland, Jr., a cousin who was one of the less than 20 named with Michael Paine as shareholders of Naushon Island were founders of the New England Aquarium and served on the board and or funded the Woods Hole Institute. Almost nothing as "tight" as what I just described and what follows, has been written about these names. Isn't what you gave consideration / validation to, in your post, less well defined than this, less substantiated? Can you understand why I'm thinking it is a good idea to be cautious about what you endorse, considering all the holes torn now in Janney's "pitch," on the chance that he has done more of what you and other members here unhesitatingly lay in the lap of Burleigh? D-i-s-t-r-a-c-t-i-on. This is free, Don. It is of higher quality, and I think it is more disturbing and impacting on many more people than what Janney has devoted himself to. His mother lived a long life, she knew the Woods Hole people associated with this.: Ventura County Chosen For Reagan Library . Modesto Bee - Nov 14, 1987 The Reagan' library and an affiliated center for public affairs will be constructed ... the property from the Los Angeles based development firm of Blakeley Swart?, Daily News of Los Angeles : REAGAN TO OPEN WORK ON LIBRARY ... Daily News of Los Angeles - Nov 17, 1988 The $44 million Reagan library, expected to be open in early 1990, will be the ... Meanwhile, the real estate investment firm of Blakeley Swartz, donors of the Daily News of Los Angeles : SIMI COUNCIL TO REVIEW PLAN FOR... Daily News of Los Angeles - Dec 21, 1990 ... not far from the Reagan Library could be before the City Council within a month , ... Bill Howe, project manager for Blakeley Western, said Thursday he was ... Daily News of Los Angeles : REAGAN GRATEFUL TO COMMUNITY -... Daily News of Los Angeles - Nov 6, 1991 ... a citizen of the city of Simi Valley here at the Ronald Reagan library. ... the planning process. from the development partnership of Blakeley-Swartz, ... Chicago Sun-Times : Presidential library in Simi Valley,... Chicago Sun-Times - Jun 6, 2004 Stanford faculty and students opposed the idea of a Reagan library for political ... Two developers from Ventura County--Gerald Blakeley and Don Swartz--had ... … : Turned away by Stanford University, Reagan library... Associated Press Archive - Jun 12, 2004Gerald Blakeley, a Boston developer and Republican fund-raiser, ... the federal government spent $3.8 million to run the Reagan library, which was fourth on . ........... http://www.bostonroa...m/roads/MA-128/ A POSTWAR VISION REALIZED: With rapid suburbanization imminent, the value of Route 128 soon became apparent. In 1948, Gerald W. Blakely, Jr., the son of a Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor and head of the industrial development division of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes, obtained a copy of the Master Highway Plan. He envisioned that for the newly high-tech industries of the postwar era, the value of Route 128 and other proposed highways lie in their proximity to MIT..... http://home.us.archi...67cali_djvu.txt118 UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES IN CALIFORNIA printed in the press, the pattern of leadership was ap- parent. Business establishments in the East Bay became dis- turbed as, from the campus sanctuary at Berkeley, thou- sands of marchers entered the Berkeley and Oakland com- munities, attracting huge crowds, jamming the streets, forcing hundreds of police officers and National Guards- men to line the course of the marches, and creating all the emotional tensions that inevitably accompany such demonstrations. In late October, Gerald W. Blakely told the Industrial Development Conference in San Francisco that ''Berkeley's continuing protests against the political and social order have become a major deterrent in Cali- fornia's drive to attract industry. "^^ Charges that the University at Berkeley was being used as a breeding place for off -campus lawlessness were an- swered by President Kerr from Riverside, where he had been attending a Regents' meeting. He said: "If there are individuals who have knowledge of illegal acts on any campus, these persons should bring such actions to the at- tention of the appropriate law enforcement agencies as well as to the chancellor of the campus involved. ' ' '^^ ............... ®^ San Francisco Chronicle, October 22, 1965. TO Oakland Tribune, November 20, 1965. http://www.democracy...ffort_by_reagan Investigative journalist Seth Rosenfeld’s new book, "Subversives: The FBI’s War on Student Radicals, and Reagan’s Rise to Power," is based on more than 300,000 pages of records Rosenfeld received over three decades through five Freedom of Information lawsuits against the FBI. The book tracks how then-FBI director J. Edgar Hoover ordered his agents to investigate and then disrupt the Free Speech Movement that began in 1964 on the Berkeley campus of the University of California. In part two of our interview, Rosenfeld discusses how Ronald Reagan collaborated with the FBI to target California’s student movement and strengthen Reagan’s own rise to power. Click here to watch part 1. [includes rush transcript] http://supportunited...ustry-breakfastEvent will honor Gerald Blakely, Jr. and the Late Edward H. Linde10/25/2010BOSTON - On Thursday, October 28th at 8 a.m., Mort Zuckerman, co-founder chairman and CEO of Boston Properties, publisher of the New York Daily News, and editor of U.S. News and World Report, will address at the region's top real estate and building industry companies at a United Way leadership breakfast. At the breakfast, President of Blakely Investments Gerald Blakely and Edward Linde, the late CEO of Boston Properties will be honored for their long-standing commitment to the community.The event provides Zuckerman with an opportunity to honor his late friend and colleague Ed Linde who died in January at the age of 68. Linde and Zuckerman co-founded Boston Properties more than 40 years ago. Linde will be honored by United Way and the Real Estate & Building Industry for his life-long commitment to improving the Greater Boston community and the advancement of charitable organizations, including United Way, Beth Israel Hospital, the Boston Symphony Orchestra and Museum of Fine Arts.At the United Way event, Zuckerman will also honor friend and former colleague Gerald W. Blakeley, President of Blakeley Investment Company, a major investor in real estate. Blakeley has also been a leader philanthropically and civically, serving on the National Board of Governors of the Boys and Girls Clubs of America, the Coast Guard Foundation, and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Zuckerman and Linde both worked for Blakeley when he was CEO of Cabot, Cabot & Forbes.In attendance will be: Premier Sponsor McCall and Almy, Premier Sponsor Moriarty, Special Sponsor Hank & Ann Spaulding, The Beal Companies, Nutter, McClennen & Fish, Terra Nova Partners, Goulston & Storrs, Forest City Boston, Jones Lang LaSalle, FHO Partners, Boston Properties, Rockpoint Group, The Davis Companies and Marcus Partners, INC. http://www.minormusi...Drugs/Mask.htmlMichael Paine was descended from the Cabots on both his father's and his mother's side; he was thus a second cousin once removed of Thomas Dudley Cabot and a cousin of Alexander Cochrane Forbes, who married a daughter of Warren Delano Robbins (FDR's cousin) and served as a director of United Fruit and trustee of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes. Paul F.Hellmuth (among the first Catholic laymen to serve on the board of Notre Dame), and a vice-president of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes was a trustee of the J. Frederick Brown Foundation, a CIA "conduit", along with G.C. Cabot. Thus the Paine family [had] links with the blue-blood intelligence circles of the OSS and CIA, In the summer of 1963 it was Ruth (Michael's wife), rather than Michael Paine, who maintained close relations with the patrician Paine and Forbes families, traveling east in July to stay with her mother-in-law at the traditional Forbes clan retreat of Naushon Island near Wood's Hole, Massachusetts (CE 416, 17 H 119). [source: Peter Dale Scott, The Dallas Conspiracy, ch. IV, pp. 2-4, as quoted in websites linked above]. Hellmuth's name would appear in 1974 in Jack Anderson's column as the law partner of Richard Nixon's impeachment attorney, allegedly involved in an industrial security company that was "wholly owned" by the CIA and used to shred documents to maintain secrecy. THE STORY BEHIND THE NAME DEVELOPER BEHIND PLANS FOR … Boston Globe - Nov 21, 1999 ... clearing the bond obligations, and in October 1964 Blakeley and associates Paul Hellmuth and Charles Spaulding acquired the Ritz-Carlton for $3.8 million. CC&F: A troubled real estate giant Boston Globe - Oct 20, 1976 Still, CC&F will be aided by a much-needed cash injection of about $13 million, which will be ...New England Merchants Bank and the First National Bank of Boston, according to a source in the financial community. This money will enable CC&F to pay off several obligations, including $2 million in back taxes owed to the City of Boston on several downtown locations, particularly One Boston Place and the Ritz Carlton Hotel. Still, a leading banker, familiar with the negotiations, believes the odds on successful completion are only "75 to 80 percent." Even if CC&F is rescued, it is clear that the firm will not be the same high-flying, free-wheeling operation it has been. According to one source, CC&F is undergoing a retrenchment and consolidation that can be described as "voluntary reorganization outside the courts." Blakeley concedes that the firm will "cut back some, and make no more land acquisitions. But he says he hopes the loans being sought by the company will "allow new deals on buildings." . Cabot, Cabot & Forbes, during the 25 years of Blakeley's leadership, has pioneered industrial parks in the United States, contributed heavily to the of Rte. 128 and is responsible responsible for several office towers in downtown Boston. The company, a key factor in the economies of Boston and Massachusetts, made fortunes The banks did not want to push CC&F into bankruptcy, in which its numerous subsidiaries would be difficult to unravel. There was no default because the banks extended their loans "informally," according to Ed- win B. Morris 3d, senior vice president of the First National Bank of Boston At CC&F , the financial crisis triggered a reshuffling of management that may not be over. Blakeley, who was the president, became chairman, and handed over the top operating spot to Ferdinand Colloredo-Mansfeld, a 37-year-old financial expert who was formerly with Brown Bros ... At the June trustees meeting, Blakeley and Paul F. Hellmuth, a large CC&F shareholder, resigned as trustees. Emerson, who had resigned from the development company in May, became the chairman of the land trust s board of trustees. The trustees of the land trust also decided to terminate its contract with CC&F Advisory, a company set up to counsel the land trust. CC&F Advisory, whose principal shareholders are Hellmuth and Blakeley, is now an inactive company with some real estate holdings...... Also Don, how is what Burleigh said about abortion, political partisanship. It is an issue of civil rights in the category of womens' rights. Substitute "keep abortion legal" with the words "keep caging illegal" and attribute it to congressman John Lewis and dismiss it as partisan. Edited August 29, 2012 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Tom, I don't how to make it any clearer- I haven't read Janney's book and don't endorse it. I was intrigued by the connections you've found regarding his family. I also am dubious of his credibility because of his sources. That being said, I still think there is good reason to doubt that Crump killed Mary Meyer. We all reject a lot of "conspiracy" JFK assassination books, but we still believe that JFK was killed by a conspiracy. As for Nina Burleigh, she is symptomatic of the mainstream media "journalists" who excused the many scandals of Bill Clinton, and she undoubtedly excuses the scandals of Obama, because they are Democrats. Any "reporter" that jokes about giving a politician oral sex, because of his stance on any issue, is an intellectual prostitute in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Charles-Dunne Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Yawn. What happened to your upright heat and light speech? TIme to dock ship Robert. No, Jim, it’s time for you to provide evidence of Crump’s guilt. Way past time, in fact. You made the accusation; you provide the evidence. You know how this works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) As shown in the post at the following link, James Jesse Angelton had a very close and special relationship with the Israeli agents. Does Mr. Janney provide any information about this relationship in his book? http://educationforu...150#entry258980 Edited August 29, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hogan Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I know how it works alright, especially with you as adjudicator. Double yawn. Robert's role in this thread has been more like that of a barrister, where the required competencies include advocacy and interpersonal skills, an analytical mind and honed critical thinking abilities. The real adjudicators are the people that have read or followed this thread. Each one of them can make up their own mind about whose arguments contain winning merit. Judging from Robert's posts and Jim's replies, that shouldn't prove too difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 I know how it works alright, especially with you as adjudicator. Double yawn. Robert's role in this thread has been more like that of a barrister, where the required competencies include advocacy and interpersonal skills, an analytical mind and honed critical thinking abilities. The real adjudicators are the people that have read or followed this thread. Each one of them can make up their own mind about whose arguments contain winning merit. Judging from Robert's posts and Jim's replies, that shouldn't prove too difficult. Your contributions have been very good as well. In fact, in my opinion, Michael and Robert are the best two posters on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 John, I am very disappointed your first comments on this thread in quite some time are a backhanded, but obvious rebuke of some through an endorsement of others. Not of their research contributions or their analysis of what author Peter Janney has said and published, versus that of those you rebuke. This seems quite a departure from what you include in your Spartacus pages. Do you prefer research sharing and analysis, or opinions? You impressed me as a detail oriented person. I am getting an impression from you that you are more comfortable in the company of those you like than those who tell you what you don't what to hear, but who offer accurate and insightful details and analysis. I look forward to reading your argument that you have better served yourself by choosing to put so much stock in what Peter Janney has offered here, these past five years, and so little to what Jim DiEugenio has written about Janney and you. Until I became more informed, I thought DiEugenio's "silver bullets" piece was extremely unfair to you, and unfair to Janney. I've come to believe you take opportunities to conduct yourself in the ways DiEugenio described in that piece. I am very said to say I think you took another opportunity to do so in your last post here. Why do you appear to be acting so true to form, (as in DiEugenio's criticism). IMO, Peter Janney is a scoundrel and the members you just lavished praise on have done you no service, but what do I know? I speak with the confidence of what I have learned from looking as deeply into some of these matters as I have ever looked into anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 You're a disappointment, Tom. I had you down as jumping on within an hour to protest the verdict. Ninety one minutes is just not good enough. Lift your game. John is entitled to his opinion and I'd warrant it's not one that would do badly in any poll among posters and readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I know how it works alright, especially with you as adjudicator. Double yawn. Robert's role in this thread has been more like that of a barrister, where the required competencies include advocacy and interpersonal skills, an analytical mind and honed critical thinking abilities. The real adjudicators are the people that have read or followed this thread. Each one of them can make up their own mind about whose arguments contain winning merit. Judging from Robert's posts and Jim's replies, that shouldn't prove too difficult. Your contributions have been very good as well. In fact, in my opinion, Michael and Robert are the best two posters on this forum. As good as Michael and Robert are, and I do think that Robert is the best writer in this forum(however it takes Robert a long time to make a post, he is slow and deliberate)followed in second place by maybe Nathaniel), a forum requires variety. If the forum contained only Michael and Robert it would be a very dull forum indeed! We need to see what Robert is like when he has to respond quickly, we have not seen the "spontaneous" Robert. And there is a thing called synergy, which means that a whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This is the added value that shows up from the unselfish interaction between two or more, feeding off of comments in an honest way leading to the evolution of the original idea. When the ego's get involved everything shuts down. In my opinion it is synergy which makes a forum a forum. I am sure that Robert could state this in a much more palatable way, but it might take him a couple of days! Edited August 30, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rago Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) As shown in the post at the following link, James Jesse Angelton had a very close and special relationship with the Israeli agents. Does Mr. Janney provide any information about this relationship in his book? http://educationforu...150#entry258980 Mr. Janney do you discuss in your book the close relationship that James Angelton had with the Israeli intelligence agency or do you leave the impression that it could only have been the CIA who was involved in the Mary Meyer affair? There are , at least, 3 important things here. First, Mary Meyer apparently wrote in her diary that she had conversations with President Kennedy about nuclear disarmament. It is possible that Kennedy mentioned to Mary the Israeli nuclear issue. Second, John Kennedy was demanding that Israel submit its nuclear plant to international inspections to ensure that it was devoted entirely to peaceful purposes. Because of the Cuban Missile Crisis he was not going to budge on this issue. Third James Jesse Angelton, who was obviously very interested in Mary's diary had a very close relationship with the Israeli Intelligence Agency. (In fact, James Angelton is supposed to have two memorials in Israel, how many does he have in the US?) These are important facts that no book that talks about Mary Meyer and James Angelton and hints of nuclear disarmament should ignore. Here is what William Kelly has said about you... I think that Peter Janney is in a unique position, as the son of a respected CIA officer, to be able to get other CIA officials to talk on the record, and that he has probably developed new and important information about those in the CIA knowledgeable about the death of Mary M., Dino B. of the NPIC, and other aspects of the assassination. While we all have different thresholds of belief, and can accept or reject what he has to offer, he has the opportunity to get information that ordinary researchers can't access, so we should at least pay attention to what he has to say. Bill Kelly JFKcountercoup As the son of a respect CIA officer surely you are aware of the relationships which James Jesse Angelton had with other intelligence agencies. You are in an excellent position to give us even more details of that special relationship. Here is your bio Mr. Janney. In it you say your family was close to the Angelton family. I grew up in Washington, D.C. in the 1950s and 1960s. My father (Wistar Janney) was an upper echelon CIA official, and I knew very little of what he was doing in his career because it was so highly classified. Later on, I was able to put some pieces together, having talked to a number of other CIA “brats.” As a family, we were close friends with other CIA officials families like the Angletons, Cord and Mary Meyer, etc. I knew (and still do) the Meyer family very well; in fact Michael Meyer and I were best friends when he was killed by a car at age 9 while crossing a street in McLean, Virginia. I helped Nina Burleigh write her book A Very Private Woman on Mary Meyer, and I also had many conversations with Leo Damore about his book about Mary Meyer which was to be titled Burden of Guilt. Damore’s book was never published because he committed suicide in October of 1995.I have been a clinical psychologist for nearly 25 years but left health care in 2000 and went to business school at Duke University. I am currently an independent film producer working on a Hollywood drama, which will be announced in June 2005. http://educationforu...791 The title of your book is Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, Mary Pinchot Meyer, and Their Vision for World Peace Edited September 1, 2012 by Mike Rago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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