Duane Daman Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Apollo flight director Gene Krantz sings a different tune now that he is faced with the fact that nasa not only claims that they "lost" all of the telemetry from every Apollo mission , but he doesn't even believe it ever existed in the first place !!! NASA: Telemetry Data Lost AND Worthless ??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfAGrvQwSmQ Edited July 23, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Apollo flight director Gene Krantz sings a different tune now that he is faced with the fact that nasa not only claims that they "lost" all of the telemetry from every Apollo mission , but he doesn't even believe it ever existed in the first place !!!NASA: Telemetry Data Lost AND Worthless ??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfAGrvQwSmQ Didn't hear any evidence on the Youtube clip supporting that claim, do you have a transcript? The two people interviewed at the end of the film were saying they neither knew where the tapes are, nor whether the data still exists. Quote:- "I can't give you much of a clue as to where this data ended up and whether it still exists or not" It's a shame the original tapes have been misplaced, I hope NASA and the National Archives have learnt from experience and have better systems in place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I'll try and have a look at the YouTube vid when bandwidth allows, but is this the Apollo 11 tapes stuff again? To recap, some of the tapes which contained Apollo 11 telemetry data and slow-scan TV has been lost. The slow-scan TV does not give any new footage, it just shows it in better resolution than we have previously had. It was my understanding (and I am will to correct myself, and will check my facts) that the telemetry data was for the most part already recorded elsewhere. If we are talking about those same tapes, it is only the Apollo 11 telemetry data tapes which are affected. Other missions data (A12 onwards) are still there (to the best of my knowledge, and I will check on that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) Both of you are either misinformed or being deliberately misleading . ALL of the telemetry is missing from ALL of the missions , not just Apollo 11 . Get your hearing checked Dave , because Krantz stated that he didn't believe the telemetry even existed . Here's his quote from the video interview .. "I haven't see anything that indicates that the telemetry data is even in existance .. and as I said , even if we had it we don't have the machines to play it back . " Edited July 24, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Both of you are either misinformed or being deliberately misleading .ALL of the telemetry is missing from ALL of the missions , not just Apollo 11 . Get your hearing checked Dave , because Krantz stated that he didn't believe the telemetry even existed . Here's his quote from the video interview .. "I haven't see anything that indicates that the telemetry data is even in existance .. and as I said , even if we had it we don't have the machines to play it back . " Ah, comes down to what you think he means by "is in existence". It's "possible" that the original telemetry tapes were erased at some point - in which case the data on the tapes no longer exists. IMO this isn't the same as claiming that it never existed in the first place (i.e. claiming it was never recorded). Didn't they find some of the telemetry for Apollo 11 in an Australian University last year? Not sure exactly what they found on there, but I'm sure it was some kind of telemetry because I recall them being disappointed that what they had didn't contain the original Apollo 11 TV footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 (edited) Ah , it comes down to semantics then ... My interpretation was that the tapes were never in existance , not taped over or "lost" . Yes, apparently 100 of the 700 "lost" boxes of Apollo 11 "experiments" were found hiding under some school desks in Austrailia ... Right . According to most people, Apollo was the greatest technological achievement ever known to mankind ... Yet , for such a stellar achievement in the anals of space flight history , no one at nasa seemed to give a crap what happened to the original Apollo telemetry, which from what I understand , recorded much more that just clearer pictures . There are still 600 boxes , weighing over one ton , of telemetry missing from EVERY Apollo mission ... and to "lose" something of that magnitude can not be due to any carelessness on the part of nasa employees ... If those tapes were really what nasa claimed they were , they would have been carefully guarded in locked vaults ( like the alleged moon rocks ) and not just lost in the shuffle somewhere .. According to nasa's version of the events , the tapes were moved at one point from one nasa facility to another ( can't remember the names of them ) and it was at this second location that they became "lost " . The true story is that a documentary maker wanted to take the original telemetry of all of the Apollo missions and convert them to DVD discs to make a documentary about the Apollo Program , using the best quality pictures available .... But when he asked nasa to allow him access to the telemetry data , it became somehow "lost" , never to be found again . I'm sorry , but if you or anyone else swallows nasa's pathetic story that the telemetry data from "the greatest achievement known to mankind " was "lost" or even accidently "copied over" , then you really are blind to nasa's smoke and mirrors routine ... nasa has many secrets ... none of which the world will ever be privy to ... and the "lost" telemetry data is just part of their magic show . Edited July 25, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Ah , it comes down to semantics then ... My interpretation was that the tapes were never in existance , not taped over or "lost" .Yes, apparently 100 of the 700 "lost" boxes of Apollo 11 "experiments" were found hiding under some school desks in Austrailia ... Right . I think so, if you listen to what he said, I don't think you hear him saying the data was never recorded, just that he doesn't know if it exists now. Seems fair to me if the tapes have been missing for some time. According to most people, Apollo was the greatest technological achievement ever known to mankind ... Yet , for such a stellar achievement in the anals of space flight history , no one at nasa seemed to give a crap what happened to the original Apollo telemetry, which from what I understand , recorded much more that just clearer pictures . I agree, it's an indictment of the system that these tapes have either been mislaid, or even worse been destroyed. My understanding may well be similar to yours - the telemetry is things like recordings of the astronauts life signs, radar readings during langing, measurement of oxygen, water, fuel levels, tracking data of the LM and CM, etc etc. There are still 600 boxes , weighing over one ton , of telemetry missing from EVERY Apollo mission ... and to "lose" something of that magnitude can not be due to any carelessness on the part of nasa employees ... If those tapes were really what nasa claimed they were , they would have been carefully guarded in locked vaults ( like the alleged moon rocks ) and not just lost in the shuffle somewhere .. According to nasa's version of the events , the tapes were moved at one point from one nasa facility to another ( can't remember the names of them ) and it was at this second location that they became "lost " .The true story is that a documentary maker wanted to take the original telemetry of all of the Apollo missions and convert them to DVD discs to make a documentary about the Apollo Program , using the best quality pictures available .... But when he asked nasa to allow him access to the telemetry data , it became somehow "lost" , never to be found again . I'm sorry , but if you or anyone else swallows nasa's pathetic story that the telemetry data from "the greatest achievement known to mankind " was "lost" or even accidently "copied over" , then you really are blind to nasa's smoke and mirrors routine ... nasa has many secrets ... none of which the world will ever be privy to ... and the "lost" telemetry data is just part of their magic show . The question I would put to you is... If NASA was able to fake many thousands of high resolution Hasselblads... and many hours of live TV footage... and thousands of feet of 16mm film... on huge lunar soundstages, or in vast vacuum chambers... and 800lbs of moon rocks that continue to fool the world's leading geological experts... and the results of the dozens of scientific experiments... and enlist the help and 40 year silence of a couple of dozen astronauts, countless engineers and technicians, non-US personnel involved in operating tracking stations on foreign soil (not mention the people directly involved in faking all the evidence)... and murder people who threatened to whistleblow (Apollo 1 and others)... Why haven't they been able, in the last 40 years, to fake telemetry data on some old magnetic tapes? I do agree with you that more care should have been taken archiving this particular part of the data from Apollo, just disagree that it is proof that the Apollo programme was faked. Heck, I no longer have the original copies of my educational qualifications. They're pretty important to me personally, but they're not something I need to check on every day, week, month or even year. They've been mislaid. Does that mean I didn't pass those exams, or does it mean I should have taken better care of the certs? I entrust my personal safety to my car's mechanical worthiness every day, yet was unable to track down the MOT certificate from last year - did I really put it through its test? Somewhere I worked at donkeys years ago, we cleared out an old storage cupboard that had lain untouched for goodness knows how many years. We skipped equipment that would have cost tens of thousands of pounds to purchase in its day. There's probably some bearded, crusty old bean-counter complaining to his current staff that he knows they are in possession of a dozen "steam-powered analytical chromatograms", and is demanding they be found. Sorry pal, they're 20 feet under so much land-fill now. Didn't get the memo. Breakdown in the system. OK these are all trivial examples and don't prove anything about the Apollo tapes - but I do know that systems are fallible, just like the people who run them. NASA isn't some preternatural, sentient entity - it's just like many other organisations that are run by human beings. It sometimes fails. Seems there's been a big failure in the archiving of these tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 (edited) The "question " you would put to me ?? After reading your question it sounds kind of silly to think that Apollo could have possibly been a hoax ?!!?!? Your choice of words are very clever , in attemting to make the hoax look like an impossibility ... and you're right .. your personal examples are quite trivial compared to the alleged " greatest achievement of all mankind " ! Edited July 27, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 No, Duane, you are misrepresenting things here. Let me explain: The tape data is used / recorded as required, then the tapes are re-used. This is normal practice. Being Apollo tapes, they were kept in storage (archives) after the data had been used / recorded. The fact that the whereabouts of the tapes are currently unknown is of great concern, but that data itself - for the most part - is recorded elsewhere (technical reports, post-mission reports, etc). If no-one requested / required the data, then it was probably discarded. The comment about being able to play the tapes is kinda correct. The tapes used a couple of special machines to record the data. The machines were state-of-the-art in 1969, but are museum pieces now. The machines required to read and interpret that data are now gone (although there might be one somewhere). The slow scan TV machine, however, was still at NASA and due to be sold thrown away - but the revelation about the Apollo 11 slow scan TV footage stopped that. NASA has put the decommissioning of the facility on hold until it can be certain of the fate of the slow scan TV tapes (which are Apollo 11 only). It might be like saying that the telemetry tapes from the first atomic explosions and subsequent tests can no longer be found. That doesn't indicate that atomic explosions were 'faked' in some way, or that the missing original data sources are indicative of some conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Seems to me NASA are in dire need of better PR, I mean if the best they can come up with when asked for the tapes is, "Gee, looks like we lost them" those handling such matters need to be urgently shown the door. And thats the problem with Duane's scenario, why not simply say, "Sorry, they are in such bad shape you cant use them" Where I do agree is the negligence is almost criminal, and NASA have only themselves to blame if more people believe that the Moon landins were faked, and that is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Greer Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 The "question " you would put to me ?? After reading your question it sounds kind of silly to think that Apollo could have possibly been a hoax ?!!?!? Your choice of words are very clever , in attemting to make the hoax look like an impossibility ... and you're right .. your personal examples are quite trivial compared to the alleged " greatest achievement of all mankind " ! Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Why did NASA fake eveything they needed to so thoroughly and with such attention to detail, yet when it came to the telemetry tapes decided to say they'd been misplaced (thus enabling charges of incompetence to be levelled at them), instead of just faking the telemetry data? Why are the missing tapes evidence that Apollo was faked, but not evidence of poor archiving and record keeping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Daman Posted July 28, 2007 Author Share Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) Dave ... To answer your question as to how nasa so cleverly faked the Apollo photography , yet neglected to fake the telemetry data, is very simple ... They didn't have the time to produce the "original telemetry " taped data and therefore had to invent a quick cover story . nasa most likely never thought that anyone would ever ask to use the original telemetry from every mission , for a documentary about Apollo ... So when they were asked for the tapes , they either hid them away ( for obvious reasons ) and then pretended they were "lost" .. Or , they never made the tapes in the first place ( for obvious reasons ) and then had to lie about them being "lost" .... Either way , nasa shot themselves in the foot ... There was already enough evidence to prove that Apollo was a photographic fraud , and this just confirmed that fact all over again . Edited July 28, 2007 by Duane Daman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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