Jump to content
The Education Forum
  • Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! PLEASE CLICK ON THIS TITLE FOR INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION!:   06/03/2017

      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team
Sign in to follow this  
Robert Prudhomme

How a Popular Misconception Gave Away a Lie by the FBI

Recommended Posts

Jon,

We all know that even if Bullet CE399 was somehow captured in flight on Zapruder's movie as it sliced through both Kennedy and Connally, there would be many conspiracy theorists who would still deny the viability of the Single-Bullet Theory.

This discussion revolving around what people see in the Z-Film is a prime example of CTer denial in action. Even when there is fairly firm proof of John Connally reacting to the bullet striking him prior to Z225, it's still not nearly good enough "proof" for CTers who (for some odd reason) continue to deny the SBT. (I mean, even WITH the SBT in place, those CTers can still believe in the make-believe Grassy Knoll shooter and, hence, a conspiracy.)

And so what we get is one excuse after another for dismissing the visual signs of the SBT in the Z-Film. It's quite humorous to see all the lame excuses the CTers have for tossing the SBT in the gutter.

And this simultaneous movement of both JFK's and Connally's right arms is merely a "coincidence" too. Right?....

109.+Z225-Z226+Toggling+Clip.gif

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David,

It is possible - the car is moving, Nellie's moving, JBC's position wrt the camera is changing and may block the view of the shadow, assuming it's still there somewhere but, as I said, Nellie is also moving about within the car. In case you didn't know, when whatever object causes a shadow moves, it is likely the shadow will move as well.

Governor Connally is flinching at Z225, Ian. The Z-Film proves it. And I think you just don't want to accept that reality. Nor does any other CTer in the world.

He may well be flinching, I didn't say he wasn't or didn't; I am just discussing the supposed movement of his left shoulder as you described it, which I believe is in error and is an illusion caused by a shadow. It really is that simple

Whether I am a "CTer" or not is a separate subject altogether and, clearly, what you accept as "reality" is not necessarily what I would accept, so please don't try to impose your ideas of "reality" on me.

And I'm still convinced that the apparent raising of JBC's left shoulder by several inches between frames Z-224 and Z-225 is an illusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David,

Both of JBC's shoulders are moving to some extent since JBC himself is clearly moving. Whether he is twisting or flinching is irrelevant to our discussion (argument?). As far as I can see, his left shoulder does move but not to the extent you originally implied, but it may appear as if it does because of an illusion created by a shadow cast onto Jackie's jacket.

That's it.

Merely an observation.

It does not prove nor disprove either the SBT or a conspiracy.

Edited by Ian Lloyd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Special Agent Robert A. Frazier of the FBI was considered a firearms expert. He gathered most of the ballistics evidence in the JFK assassination and presented his findings in evidence to the Warren Commission. However, a careful examination of his work and evidenvce reveals a plethora of errors.

One such error is revealed in the excerpt from his testimony below, and this error will explain why the bullet shown in the evidence photo and known as CE 399 could never have been fired from Oswald's rifle, or any other 6.5mm Carcano.

"Mr. EISENBERG - Well, no; not at this time.

Can you explain the American equivalent to the 6.5 mm. caliber?

Mr. FRAZIER - That is the same as .25 caliber. Such weapons in the United States as the .25-20 Winchester, .25-35, the .250 Savage, and the .257 Roberts, are all of the same barrel diameter, or approximately the same barrel diameter. So a decimal figure of .257 inch is the equivalent of 6.5 mm."

This is a popular misconception in the shooting world regarding .25 calibre and 6.5mm calibre rifles. Mr. Frazier is 100% wrong in his belief.

The bore diameter of a .25 calibre rifle is .250"; the bore diameter of a 6.5mm calibre rifle is .256".

The groove diameter (also bullet diameter) of a .25 calibre rifle is .257"; the groove and bullet diameter of a 6.5mm calibre rifle is .264" (.268" in a Carcano).

6fxd37-1.jpg

rifling2.jpg

The confusion between the two calibres stems from the bore diameter of the 6.5mm and the groove diameter of the .25 calibre both being .257".

This misconception plagued Frazier throughout his investigation and shows up again in his testimony about the Walker bullet.

"Mr. EISENBERG - Can you describe the general rifling characteristics which you referred to?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes. They consist of impressions from four lands and grooves. The bullet is mutilated on a portion of its surface. However, it can be determined that there were four land impressions and four groove impressions originally on this bullet.

The width of the land impression is 7/100ths of an inch, that is 0.07 inch--whereas the width of the groove impression is 0.13 inch, or 13/100ths of an inch.

The bullet is flattened so that it was not possible to measure its diameter. However, by adding the land width to the groove width, and multiplying by the number of lands and grooves, you can determine the circumference of the bullet and mathematically determine its diameter, which in this case corresponds to 6.5 mm. ammunition, or approximately .267 inch."

As I pointed out in another thread, adding the measurements from the Walker bullet of a land impression (.070" or 1.778 mm) and a groove impression (.130" or 3.302 mm) and multiplying by 4 to determine circumference, and then dividing by pi (3.1416) to obtain diameter, does not produce .267".

(.070 + .130) x 4 = .800 divided by 3.1416 = .255"

Amazingly, this is almost exactly the diameter of a .25 calibre bullet.

The REAL specs for the lands and grooves of a 6.5mm Carcano rifle are lands = .085" (2.159 mm) and grooves = .125" (3.175 mm). With these specs, let's try Frazier's formula again.

(.085 + .125) x 4 = .840 divided by 3.1416 = .267" (the correct diameter for a Carcano bullet)

With this in mind, let us look at CE 399 again:

33-3323t.gif

A much larger and clearer version of this photo can be seen here:

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5764&d=1394312818

We now know the width of the Carcano land to be .085" or 2.159 mm. Even a rough measurement of the above land impression shows it to be well under 2 mm and actually close to the measurement Frazier obtained from the Walker bullet of .070" or 1.778 mm.

There is no doubt now that the CE 399 in the photo above was not fired from a 6.5mm Carcano rifle, nor any other 6.5mm calibre rifle.

The theory I have, and it is rapidly becoming the ONLY possibility, is that Frazier and his assistants honestly believed the bullets from a .25 calibre rifle and a 6.5mm calibre rifle were the same diameter of bullet and would, therefore, be interchangeable as evidence. If the bullet presented as the Walker bullet (Edwin Walker swore it was a substitute) and CE 399 were both plants, it seems highly probable that the FBI used a more common .25 calibre rifle to produce their substitutes.

There are a number of other things wrong with CE 399, and I will produce them in the next few posts.

Were any measurements made of the bore & groove diameters of the carcano? I know a mould of the inside of the barrel was made but I'm not sure if it was of sufficient quality for measuring such small dimensions as precisely as would be required for this exercise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also note, the area where your gif suggests Connally's left shoulder is rising coincides with the area of Jackie's jacket which happens to be black!!!!!

Wrong. The trim around Jackie's jacket isn't black at all. It's navy blue. The dark blue color of her suit jacket's trim is easily discernible in the bright sunlight....

JFK%2B%26%2BJackie%2BAt%2BLove%2BField%2

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, what a flood! My embarrassing question for David Von Pein has been buried under a torrent of posts.

No problem, I'll just keep asking it. :)

David, take another look at this still from Dale Myers' cartoon:

Myers-Model.png

Dale has shown the Magic Bullet entering JFK's back almost centred on the spinal column.

How did the MB go through JFK's neck without hitting any cervical vertebrae?

As I said, I will post medical diagrams to help you, if you wish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DVP @ post #54:

The photo you display -- any ideas as to [1] what is being measured, [2] how whatever is being measured is being measured, or [3] whose hands are shown in the photo?

It's noteworthy that the lowest hand is not gloved. Why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DVP @ post #54:

The photo you display -- any ideas as to [1] what is being measured

I don't think anything is specifically being measured there. The ruler is probably in the picture to provide scale. Similar to the "red spot" autopsy photo of JFK's head, which also includes a ruler being placed fairly close to the wound in the photograph.

[2] how whatever is being measured is being measured

N/A. See previous reply.

or [3] whose hands are shown in the photo?

Probably Humes and Boswell. Or Finck. Or any combination thereof. (Is this important?)

It's noteworthy that the lowest hand is not gloved. Why?

I haven't the foggiest. (Is this also important?)

Footnote -- It's kind of hard to tell if the lower hand has a glove on it or not. I think the hand might be gloved after all. If not, he has exposed his bare hand to a lot of JFK's blood. And that seems rather unlikely.

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Von Pein

You are still ignoring my question, which does not really surprise me. Ever since the Silly Bullet Theory was first revealed, true believers, such as yourself, have had to ignore basic anatomical realities in order to make the SBT "work".

The autopsy report on JFK, as I interpret it, has the Silly Bullet passing over the top of the right transverse process of thoracic vertebra T1, grazing it on its way by, and passing to the outside of the right tip of the right transverse process of cervical vertebra C7. This bullet then passed through JFK's neck, going through the right side of his trachea (windpipe) before exiting his throat.

As no one at Bethesda observed any abnormalities about JFK's vertebrae in the x-rays taken, it is a fairly simple matter of plotting the bullet's path on a cross sectional diagram of the human neck. If one then draws a line through this cross section from front to back, as a centre line, and measures the angle of the bullet path to this line, it is quite apparent the bullet was travelling at an angle, left to right, of 26°. The sniper's nest on the 6th floor was laterally removed only 9° from the centre line of the limo, so this was a real neat trick, and the reason it is called the Silly Bullet Theory.

Let's look at the still from Dale Myers' cartoon again:

Myers-Model.png

Does this bullet look like it is travelling a right to left path of 26°? Or even 9°?

How did the Magic Bullet travel through JFK's neck, in the manner portrayed by Dale Myers, without hitting any cervical vertebrae?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How did the Magic Bullet travel through JFK's neck, in the manner portrayed by Dale Myers, without hitting any cervical vertebrae?

It's "Magic", Roberto. What else would you expect from an LNer's bullet? (Geez.)

But you've got TWO Magic Bullets, Bob. Each one enters JFK, fails to exit, and they both disappear. For some silly reason, the "real" killers decided to shoot JFK with two of these things instead of using real guns:

42784265179793372PbKDrfhrc.jpg

Edited by David Von Pein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How did the Magic Bullet travel through JFK's neck, in the manner portrayed by Dale Myers, without hitting any cervical vertebrae?

It's "Magic", Roberto. What else would you expect from an LNer's bullet? (Geez.)

But you've got TWO Magic Bullets, Bob. Each one enters JFK, fails to exit, and they both disappear. For some silly reason, the "real" killers decided to shoot JFK with two of these things instead of using real guns:

42784265179793372PbKDrfhrc.jpg

Would you like some good advice, Dave? It's from the Scriptures, and the man who wrote it had someone just like you in mind.

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

1 Corinthians 13:11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×