James R Gordon

Tom, PM's are now "Messages". They are identified by the envelope to the left of your name. Simply click the envelope and choose "Compose New." Essentially this upgrade is the same as the previous system, however there are some differences. It may take us a while to get on top of all the differences. We could not remain with the old software because Invision no longer supported it. Hopefully we will soon iron out all the kinks in the system. James.

I will look into the problem with bios. I am sure they are available, but I am not sure where. I certain Invision would not delete them. James

I contacted Invision about post numbers and got the following reply: “Post Numbers are internally numbered. If you select the share icon in the top left, you will see comment= and a number at the end. This is the internal post number. There is no numbering such as 1,2,3 on an individual post. This was actually removed from the software as it was extremely misleading. The 5th post for example for yourself, may not be the 5th for someone else. Lets say for example you can see post 2 and 3 but they are hidden, for you post 5 would indeed be the 5th post in the database, however for others it would show as post 3 (because they dont see the 2 hidden posts).”

Good point Sandy. I am sure there are post numbers but - like you - I also cannot see them. I will look into it.

David I will will check with Invision about whether the new version can still keep your original hyperlink references. Ray and Thomas, I believe when you click on "Follow" you get a list of who is one line. I will see whether this can be placed at the bottom of each page as before. James

Hi all, I thought I would share where we are with the Lancer Upgrade. The Home page is now complete, with one error correction to be made. There was a tab that linked with the latest Lancer books for sale. Unfortunately the developer believed I wanted that link removed and not the two books highlighted on the Home page. The proper link will be restored shortly. Since posting I see the site has been updated. The links to JFK Lancer are deliberate and reflect the history that JFK Lancer has had on the JFK research community. Assassination Magazine. Lancer used to have a magazine called “Assassination Chronicles.” When the developer put that link in I had not anticipated it. However I decided to leave it and see whether we cannot collectively put together - say - an annual research magazine. After all there is a massive combined resource within this forum. The Assassination Links and Resources are again a reference to the mission of JFK Lancer. When you click on Login you get a choice to either go across to JFK Lancer or continue onto the Lancer rebuild. When you click on Lancer Forum you get a choice between the two essential aspects of the rebuild. The Lancer Rebuild itself. Presentations and Seminars. Presentations and Seminars is essentially a video based forum. This is a site where members can make major video presentations / etc. I am hoping - and I understand the site will be able to support it - that maybe once a year we can run a live seminar/conference. What is happening now is the actual Lancer rebuild. I an still living in hope that the site can be launched for the assassination weekend. The link to the present rebuild:- http://asp.wcukdev.co.uk/designer3/JFKLancerArchiveRebuild/html/index.html I am interested in suggestions and thoughts. James.

I have given permission to Invision to upgrade our Forum software. Our present software is no longer supported and the problems one member has contacted me about an inability to PM another member appear to be related. Once the upgrade is complete the forum may look a little different and we will just need to get used to that. It is better - if we do have problems - that we are using a forum software that is supported. James.

This thread is now open again. James

Gentlemen, Kathy was very fair to you and gave you the respite to reflect on what has been happening on this thread. Well that appeared to have no affect. I am locking this thread and the members of the admin will be reflecting on certain members behaviour. Please note that this is referred to as the "Education" Forum and one element of education is that discourse is implies a conversation based on EVIDENCE!!! Something that appears to be lacking in certain quarters. I will be open and state I am very edgy about this kind of situation and behaviour. The Lancer Archive - that is now in development - is going to be very significantly much more than the original Lancer Forum. And one element that is now at the heart of this development is the importance of the sharing of resources and ideas: and all of that is part of education. The Lancer archive is now going to have very the initial ideas that were originally embedded in the original forum. But it is going to do much more than that. When it is launched members are going to be astonished at its rebirth, And so - I am sorry but at the moment I am very sensitive to this kind of nonsense that reoccured after a member of the admin team had asked you reflect on your behaviour. James.

Thanks David. I clearly misread your post. James.

Brad, Thanks I'll look forward to receiving the link. David, Are you arguing for this structure to be implemented onto the restored Lancer. I can see advantages of such a structure. Not sure whether there is sufficient info left to restore it. However if you feel that structure would benefit members I am happy to ask if it can be implemented. James.

Larry and Brad, I do not know the actual process by which the restoration will take place - which actually began today. What I do know is that the site is being rebuilt from the ground up. One option we were given was to restore the site with its original software. We decided not to do that but have the bespoke rebuild. The hosting of the site is totally secure, it will not be possible to hack it in the manner it was hacked before. When we received the archive Debra assured us that all the files were there. I do not doubt her for a second, but - having followed this conversation - I am wondering if there are files the site no longer has. And so if anyone has files from the original site I would be pleased to receive them and have them added to the archive. What we do have we are assured is able to be totally restored. In the process of logging on every member is given the opportunity of linking to the active JFK Lancer Productions and Publications. Reference to JFK Lancer is an active aspect of this rebuild. In addition every function of the site has its own version of the present Lancer splash. JFK Lancer is seen - by us - as an ongoing venture. The original JFK Lancer was a text based forum. All of that will be restored and members will be able to add replies to all the previous threads. In addition we are adding a new function to the site. This is still being discussed, but we intend to have a mew part of the new site which will be able to host video presentations - hopefully live as well as recoded. These presentations will be video based as opposed text based. Clearly text responses will be allowed but central purpose of this part of the site is that these threads will be a live or prepared video - and we are not talking about clips which will be allowed on the text part of the site. We envisage these presentations to be reasonably substantial. As I say this part of the rebuild is still under discussion, but we believe we may have a solution and we have been led to believe this is not only possible but will not require a second mortgage to pay for it. When the site will open is still being discussed. We are very tempted to delay opening till November and coincide with the 2016 Lancer conference. James.

It was a wound of entrance from a hit circa Z190 as established by ear and eye witnesses Phil Willis and Hugh Betzner. Betzner said he took his #3 photo (Z186) immediately before a gun shot. Willis said he took his #5 photo (Z202) in a startle-response to a gun shot. I agree Cliff.I also agree with your post 327. I feel these are question of a fundamental nature to understanding what happened that day.

Michael, If it helps you here are quality versions of the Autopsy Face Sheets http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/jamesg27/Autopsy%20Images/AutopsyDescriptionP1.png http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/jamesg27/Autopsy%20Images/AutopsyDescriptionP2.png

Ray, The troubling “if's” are beginning to accumulate in a variety of threads on this forum. James

It is very difficult to talk with a closed mind and I prefer an open mind.

Robert, On post 149 - I believe - I quoted the fact that to Weisberg Carrico said these slits were created by a scalpel which he witnessed happening. The fact that no-one else said that means nothing because no-one asked any witnessed what caused the slits and was it a scalpel. In addition, at the point this happened only Carrico and the nurses were in the Trauma room 1. It was shortly after that everyone else entered. At that point his shirt had been removed. Carrico was the only doctor who witnessed this. One member pointed out that no-one else confirmed this. Of course not: no-one else was in the room when it happened. Another element of the problem is defined by Carico who when asked Alan Dulles about the throat wound physically pointed on his person where it was. At this point no-one else was in Trauma room1. The other staff enter very shortly. So no-one else was able to say where the wound was or what it looked light. Mr. DULLES. Will you show us about where it was? Dr. CARRICO. Just about where your tie would be. Mr. DULLES. Where did it enter? Dr. CARRICO It entered? Mr. DULLES Yes. Dr. CARRICO At the time we did not know - Mr. DULLES I see Dr. CARRICO. The entrance. All we knew this was a small wound here. Mr. DULLES. I see. And you put your hand right above where your tie is? Dr. CARRICO. Yes, sir; just where the tie - Mr. DULLES. A little bit to the left. Dr. CARRICO. To the right. Mr. DULLES.. Yes; to the right. Dr. CARRICO. Yes. And this wound was fairly round, had no jagged edges, no evidence of powder burns, and so forth. H3 361-362 As I understand it buttons of the kind worn on JFK’s shirt were around 1cm in circumference, That means the - inside slit and smaller slit - would be around 1.484cm. Whereas the - outside slit and larger slit - would be around 1.883cm. There may well be a definitive reference to the size of each - which I do not have. Most important Carrico says that the wound “was fairly round, had no jagged edges, no evidence of powder burns.” So a small round object creates two vertical slits. In addition the first slit is smaller than the second - something that does not normally happen. If you look at the FOX 1 image you will still see the lower half of this wound. The upper half has been destroyed by the tracheotomy. The shape and size of this shape supports what Carrico says. So whatever it was that created this small round hole went on to create two fabric damages on JFK’s shirt that are both vertical and different in size. In addition the outer slit - aside from being larger than the inner one - starts above the point where the inner one starts.

Robert, Sibbert and O'Neill said that - and yes I believe them, Like David Lifton I do not disbelieve everything Humes says, however I accept Perry on this occasion. He had no reason to lie about the location, whereas the autopsy is mired in all kinds of mischief.

Robert, I have adjusted my diagram. in two ways. a) I agree that that damage to the trachea was between rings 2 and 3. However in my diagram I had the line below ring 3. So I moved it up a bit. With red lines I have identified what I believe are Trachea rings 1 to 3. I had the upper line at the top of the Thyroid Cartilage. Surely the Adams apple will be nearer the middle rather than at the top of the Cartilage, So I moved that line down. As a consequence of those changes I get the distance between the Adam's apple and between rings 2 and 3 to be 1.8925 inches. Given your calculations on yourself and your clothing - however incorrect that will be because all JFK's clothing were bespoke and created for him. His clothing was not off the peg. - this adjusted figure takes the rings above the shirt collar. James

Paul, Gary Murr asked you a precise question which you dodged and avoided answering. If you have no idea what facts will be released in 2017 it is fine to say you do not know. But if you have some idea what they are then it is only politeness to answer and to inform members. But suggesting to Gary that you will inform him "Certainly, Gary" and then promptly rabbit on about things every member already knows - does not answer Gary's question. James

Sandy, Robert Prudhomme said in post 180: “Now, just to be a good sport, I put on my ambulance uniform shirt and did up the collar button. This shirt has a modest collar roughly similar in shape and height to the collar of JFK's bloodstained shirt. I measured from my Adam's apple (laryngeal prominence) to the top of my shirt collar and found this distance to be 1.5 inches. If the distance from my Adam's apple to the space between my 2nd and 3rd tracheal ring is 2.44 inches, as you have determined, this means there is .94 inches (almost a full inch!) from the top of my collar to the space between my 2nd and 3rd tracheal rings.” I did not say he accepted my position, but I made clear he was honest enough to agree that theoretically there was space for a wound to occur above the edge of the shirt collar. I am under no illusions that Robert has changed his position, but I respect that he was able go outside his own preferred position and acknowledge a possibility. As to your methodology we will have to agree to disagree.

Sandy, With respect I suggest you read Robert's post 180 - where he quite correctly corrected one of my calculations. In that post he agreed that there was indeed room for the bullet to enter above the collar line. The fact that your methodology took the entrance to .25" below the slits should have told you something. Ratioing with respect the ear from a screen dump is not the best way to go about this question. In my last post I endeavoured to take this argument onto a more scientific level. I was pleased to see that Robert fully engaged in that discussion and even accepted that it was possible that an entrance could have entered above the collar line. Anatomically I am not sure how accurate it is measure the neck flesh to estimate the location of tracheal rings. If Robert and I am correct that using the tracheal results that we have both posted how have you gained a result that is so different. There is a massive difference - relatively speaking - from a wound being scientifically possible to be above the shirt collar to your calculation that it is actually below the collar structure.

Robert, The problem with this discussion - as I see it - is that the theory you hold is based on the medical drawing. You have given us no idea of the actual distance between these two points. You have compared a series of pictures and compared them with your drawing. The problem is that your drawing does not give an indication of distance between the locations under discussion. So the first question is what is this distance - in actual fact - between these two points. This is a pointless discussion until we know that value. Only then can we judge whether the images we have support your contention. As it turns out I can find no study focused on this issue. However I have found one study that - with further calculation - is of assistance. Between the Anterior Commissure and the first tracheal ring the mean distance [ for adults over 40 ] is 31.75mm. Taking that value the distance between the Thyroid and tracheal ring 3 is around 62mm, I am taking the wound as being between rings 2 and 3, So in inches this distance is around 2.7 inches. So now we need to judge whether the wound could be above the collar upper edge or below it. See video link below. http://vid1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/jamesg27/throat_zpspxlcbeof.mp4 From what I can judge that distance is more than 2.7mm

Robert, Using your image from Main Street, it is clear that JFK's Adam's apple is significantly distanced from the top of his shirt collar. It is not close at all. If his head were not raised - as it is in Fort Worth - then it is clear the Fort Worth image agrees with the Main Street image. Both make clear that the Adams apple is significantly above the top of his shirt collar.

Really!!! We will just have to agree to disagree here