Dafydd Humphreys

Dafydd wrote:

The USA and the UK are/were NOT democracies, and lagged a long way behind the USSR in democratic principles.

This is the single most preposterous statement I have ever read on this Forum, and that says a lot! It is absolutely unbelievable!!

Who elected Stalin? I know who elected Churchill and Roosevelt.

In Roosevelt's case that would be the highly representative 'Electoral College' that did so, not the population of the USA. However, perhaps you mean Teddy rather than Frankie-Baby. Please expand.

Could you tell me who elected Churchill in 1940?

BTW Stalin was not 'leader' of the USSR

Hitler and Stalin were both bloodthirsty tyrants.

At this point, in order to stop sounding like some uneducated ranter, one would provide evidence (non-CIA) of Stalin being 'bloodthirsty'.

It is shame democratic countries had to unite with Stalin's Soviet Union to defeat Hitler.

The USA and the UK are/were NOT democracies, and lagged a long way behind the USSR in democratic principles.

To me, that is similar to the morality of the CIA partnering with the Mafia in an attempt to kill Castro. Stalin had no more morality than one of the Mafia killers.

You are spiralling now, and your saxophone is out of tune.

And by the way can we infer from your sentence that you were not a passionate anti-communist? I have never called you a communist (and do not do so now) but it is rare to ever see you criticizing any communist regime so it would be easy to assume that you were (are?) at least sympathetic to communism.

Thank you Senator McCarthy.

Not even Franco in Spain? Mussolini in Italy? The Ustashe in Croatia? The Latin American crowd of CIA-trained gangsters?

Tim: are the following also conveniently 'non-Christian' acts :-

The Inquisition

The European Witch Crazes

The Massacres in Ireland by the Cromwellian Puritans

The Medieval Crusades

The Orthodox Pogroms in Russia

The Franco period in Spain

Not to mention the millions of people who believed in religions which predate Judeo-Christianity in the New World and Africa by Imperialist Warriors of "God" out to pacify the 'Godless Heathens'.

You mention one prominent Christian who was executed by the Fascist Capitalists, Bonhoffer. If only I could name the millions of 'Godless Communist Atheists' who the Fascist executed for their beliefs.

Okay, I'll compromise. Despite the massive support for Hitlerism given by the organised Christian churches, I'll say that the majority of the head Nazi goons were not Christian.

But to claim they were Atheist is stark raving bonkers.

Andy asked:

"Is it better for our political leaders to believe in God than to be agnostics or atheists?"

In the last century, prominent atheists who held political power included Joseph Stalin and Adolph Hitler, whose regimes together killed over ten million people, many of them Jews.

Erm...Hitler was a Christian, not an atheist. He had leanings towards a Folkish tradition, probably influenced by Himmler more than anything, but to claim he was an atheist, is lying.

J V Stalin was not 'holding power' in the USSR by the way, and your attempt to align Soviet Socialism with some rabid brand of Nationalist Capitalism (Hitler's) is very twisted.

Prominent professing (if not practicing) Christians included Woodrow Wilson, Winston Churchill, Dwight Eisenhower, Jiimmy Carter, Tony Blair, etc.

I guess I'd rather take my chances living in a nation governed by a Christian than one governed by an atheist!

I'm sure the non-Christians living in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Kurdistan, Iraq would take a different view, seeing as WW, WC and TB were responsible for the deaths of thousands of their friends and family. As would the Christians in Guatemala, Yugoslavia and Ireland who were killed in their thousands by WC, DE and TB.

Only an atheist could subscribe to (Stalin's) dictum that the loss of one human life is a tragedy but the loss of thousands of human lives is but a statistic.

Well as Stalin never said such a thing, and the quote came from the mouth of the Christian Adolf Eichmann, we'll leave that one too.

Here's a quote: a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, but no knowledge at all is worse. (Dafydd Humphreys, 2005)

I take it that the more progressive Welsh and Scottish education systems will be exempt from this latest batch of nincompoopery?

Even religious right-wing tyrants like GW Bush, Tony Blair, Adolf Hitler and so on don't follow the words in their holy book to the letter. Doesn't the Judeo-Xian bible say things like 'homosexuals are to be murdered', 'slaves are to be whipped' and 'adulterers will burn' &c?

~The rich have no moral obligation to the poor. They are rich because the system has allowed them to xxxx on the poor.

I sit corrected! Would you be willing to discuss a possible refinement - "the embodiment of the Will of the People-who-survived-the-purges"? I'd be whole-heartedly with you/him on the purging from USSR the Romanovs.

830,000 were offed in the Yezhovschina, between 1937 and 1939. Judging by the amount of Trotsky-Fascists hawking their 'Social Worker's outside Tesco's on a Saturday, too many deviants slipped through the net!!!

I take it that's a "no" to the discussion, then! And it's spelled "Socialist Worker" (although pron = So'shlist Whirr'ka).. but the thoughts of people selling social workers outside Tescos could have a political-satirical humour somewhere in it... Presumably for all the basket cases....

yours,

an escapee (retired)

Having once been a victim of the Trotsky-Moonie cult and a seller of the said rag, I can vouch it is definitely called 'Social Worker'.

I'll leave aside your CIA-propagand opinion for a moment, and kindly inform you that Cde JV Stalin was not the 'leader' of a country, but the embodiment of the Will of the People.

Cheers!

I sit corrected! Would you be willing to discuss a possible refinement - "the embodiment of the Will of the People-who-survived-the-purges"? I'd be whole-heartedly with you/him on the purging from USSR the Romanovs.

830,000 were offed in the Yezhovschina, between 1937 and 1939. Judging by the amount of Trotsky-Fascists hawking their 'Social Worker's outside Tesco's on a Saturday, too many deviants slipped through the net!!!

Evidence is conflicting. Perhaps the worst individuals to have led countries (Hitler, Stalin) had very odd religious histories, and are seen as atheists.

I'll leave aside your CIA-propagand opinion for a moment, and kindly inform you that Cde JV Stalin was not the 'leader' of a country, but the embodiment of the Will of the People.

Cheers!

Any adult who still believes in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or a God should be given 20 years hard labour. See how their praying will get them out of that one.

Just as I would like to see you get out of explaining yourself on Judgement Day...

Doug

Does that also include the billions of other people on this planet who weren't born into the Judeo-Xian regions as you or I were?

We the people should create our own Judgment Day (Yezhov style) on earth.

A question for Dafydd: How do you understand the term State Capitalist? Have you read Cliff's book (okay, that's 2 questions )

Not in the way western Fake-Socialists (aka Right-Deviationists and Trotsky-Fascist Hyenas) do...I see 'state capitalism' as being the US model - a state founded upon capitalism, and with its structures in place to uphold capitalism through Fake Democracy.

Cliff's books? Very useful - they are very absorbent for when the andrex runs out.....

In the absense of the forum this week my students came up with the following questions they would like members to consider:

"Is it better for our political leaders to believe in God than to be agnostics or atheists?"

There should be no political leaders, people do not need managers.

Anyone over the age of 8 who still believes in a God should be given medicine anyway.

One state capitalist dictatorship and its vassal states invades another state capitalist dictatorship, the place turns into a medieval quagmire. If the Yankee people want their sons and daughters home, they should take action. I think they would rather watch them on TV killing and getting killed.

The closest the world got to the best democratic system was the USSR between 1925 and 1953, and later Albania between 1945 and 1985. The people were in charge of their own affairs.

These failed capitalist shams of 'democracy' are nothing of the sort. To argue about proportional representation or first-past-the-post is like arguing whether to paint the door of a condemned house yellow or green.

Any adult who still believes in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or a God should be given 20 years hard labour. See how their praying will get them out of that one.

It is up to the people of a nation to resolve their own issues, not wait for some powerful militaristic 'benefactor' to come along and decide their affairs for them.

The money system is a complete failure. There should be no money, therefore no tax. There should also be no high earners, people should be recompensed with leisure time and other benefits, not accumulated monetary wealth in order to buy unnecessary trinkets and consumer goods.

I think my nearest description would be:

Anarcho-Stalinist

I have no inclination nor interest in joining any hierarchical political party or organisation. I distrust all politicians and most positions of management and authority. I believe that people achieve the best results when they work co-operatively and with a common goal, that of the common good.

Capitalism is a complete disaster, as is liberalism and its fake democratic processes. This is why I will not take part in their elections, nor read their newspapers for 'news' or comment, nor trust anything that their television and radio stations broadcast.

I am completely opposed to the European Union, and the United Kingdom as structures and states.

I believe in a tough law and order policy and the punishment of offenders. Liberal policies and ideas punish the innocent majority who have to live amongst recidivists and repeat offenders while the liberal elite live in well-off areas.

I believe in hugely self-sufficient defence, as in the Swiss or Swedish model, and reject any ideas about NATO/OTAN or the 'Coalition'.

I am against large-scale immigration as it damages the home countries of the immigrants, with the brain drain. It also foments mistrust and resentment in the host countries because liberal capitalism uses mass immigration to keep wages down.

I believe that the USSR up to 1953 was as near to an ideal model for governance as possible, save for Albania under the People's Will as represented by Enver Hoxha.

Hope that helps.

When's the show trial?

I have posted a thread in the 'Cafe' section. I will repost it here as non-members cannot view posts in that forum.

I would like to know why Andy Walker, one of the original members of the forum, and John Simkin, publisher of the Spartacus website and textbooks, have been banned from this forum.

I find this to be very undemocratick, especially considering whatever debate that led to this censoring has been airbrushed out of history.

Not a very good advert for historians at all.

Let's hope the contributions of the Chinese are not overlooked.