Josiah Thompson

Thanks, Len, for the link. It's quite amazing what happens when the Fetzer-Costella hogwash is looked at by anyone knowledgeable. Nice going!

For all who have not done so already I urge to look at the thread started by Craig in another forum where Fetzer and Costella's EMP theories are taken apart by people who unlike them know what they are talking about.

http://apollohoax.proboards21.com/index.cg...26833989&page=1

Jim, we are still waiting for your theory about the fire and explanation about why the smoke was blue. Are you still going to maintain that the fire was electrical even though there wasn't any electricity?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Professor Fetzer, this is really embarassing. As Len Colby points out, your quotes are from the "the tinfoil hat /UFO nut/ silver-lined boxer shorts/ hollow earth crowd". Then Len Colby proved his point by showing how nutty your sources were. If this is the best you can do, then serious people can only turn away shaking their heads. Like Attorney Welch told Senator Joseph McCarthy, "Have you no shame, sir?

Checking out "mazers", microwave lasers, has turned up some interesting stuff.

I noticed a couple of paragraphs buried in the data, such as (A) and (, which

illustrate why this appears relevant as another kind of EM weapon that might

have been involved in bringing down the Wellstone plane.  We can expect the

usual flurry from Colby, Lamson, Burton and Thompson.  (Incidentally, I hope

no one is being taken in by the sleazy practice of misquoting me and distorting

my position to make cheap points, which are the only points that some of these

critics are capable of making.  Thompson's latest is a nice example.  Read it

carefully and compare it with the post he would like you to think he is quoting.

Sometimes the deception can be as subtle as changing a period into a comma.

The man has a Ph.D. in philosophy from Yale and must know what he is doing.

He is playing the members of this forum for saps, insulting their intelligence.

Surely my four years with the USMC are at least equal to his two in the UDT!

Anyone with military experience should be able to see through his distortions,

which are in line with his long string of abuses of logic and languge in attacks

upon me, which appear to be motivated from a combination of envy regarding

my academic accomplishments compared to his and supporting research that

has revealed the Zapruder film was recreated to provide a phony account of

the death of JFK, which means his book was based on the study of a fake film.

Notice how he deflects attention from his departure from Haverford, which, I

strongly suspect, was related to his acknowledged theft of film from Time/Life.)

Radiation Health Foundation Inc. at URL: www.rhfweb.com, Email ...

Engineered Force fields, directed energy beam, laser, mazer jamming, ...

Directed energy beam (radio frequency beams),laser, and mazer detection and

jamming ...

www.rhfweb.com/research.html - 23k - Sep 21, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

http://www.rhfweb.com/research.html

(A)  "Since magnetic induction may be used to create alternating eddy currents

      in the human body producing joule heating and electricity in the body, it

      may be possible to use magnetic energy beams in electronic harassment;

      and, magnetic beams may pass through metals. Furthermore, electrical

      circuits may create heating and burns on the body. Electromagnetic radiation

      may be used to create or effect electric circuits in the human body which can 

      cause heating, burns, seizures, organ dysfunctions etc.  The directed

      energy beams used in electronic harassment may not be detected by

      standard electromagnetic meters since those meters may not be fine

      enough or since the directed energy beams may pass right through the

      metal detector plates."

*

(  "A non-lethal weapon for disabling an engine such as that of a

        fleeing car by means of a high voltage discharge that perturbs

        or destroys the electrical circuits. The transmission of the

        disabling voltage to the distant target is via two channels of

        electrically conductive air. The conductive channels are

        created by multi-photon and collisional ionization within the

        paths of two beams of coherent (laser) or collimated incoherent

        ultraviolet radiation directed to the target. A single beam may

        be used when the high voltage source and the target are

        grounded. The high-voltage current flows from electrodes at

        the origin of the beams along the channels of free electrons

        within them. U.S. Patent 5,952,600"

*

Researching composite materials which can be used to deflect, absorb,& block out

        all forms of radiation especially sound, radio waves & directed radio frequency

beams,

        high intensity lasers, directed energy beams, uv, infrared, & electronic

harassment radiations.

       

I. Standard Materials that can be used to absorb, block out, or deflect radiation.

        Many materials can be used to block out ordinary radiation coming from

electronic devices such a microwave ovens. 

        But many materials used to block out ordinary radiation may only block out a

small percent of directed high intensity radiation

        coming from directed energy beams (such as radio frequency beams, mazers,

lasers, & 4D beams.

        For more information on how high intensity directed energy beams

        may be used in electronic harassment click on speculation.

        Some of the materials listed below can be used to block out most forms of

radiation emanating from simple electronic harassment devices and from other

        electronic devices.

        Metals or screening can be used to block out some forms of radiation such as

microwaves.

        Stainless steel vacuum insulting shells such as in a thermoster can be used to

block out some forms of radiation such as sound due to the

                vacuum.

        Reflective surfaces such as aluminum, mirrors, & crystals can be used to

deflect some of the energy from

                lasers.  But very high intensity lasers can go through most standard

reflective substances.

        Some forms of radiation can be absorbed by brick or lead.

        High voltage can be blocked by using isolated circuits and traps.

        Electromagnetic pulses can be absorbed with a Faraday cage or grounded steel mesh.

                A non-screen farady cage- a solid sheet of metal (i.e. copper) enclosing all

sides in which the individuals are inside

                and are not in contact with the metal walls. The walls should be connected to

a transformer output of half wave reversing currents

                which prevent the penetration of different energies.  U.S. Patent Number

5,291,829.

        Some forms of radioactive elements such as iridium stored in a ditch circling a

house can be used to create a shield which

                absorbs some radiation.

        Heavy metals such as lead or zinc covered with with pyramids or cones from 1/8

to 5 inches high. The pyramids or cones should be sprayed

                with a metalic based and conductive or reflective paint. This material

construction can block out some radiation.

        The plastic polyethelene may be used to block out some forms of radiation.

        Magnetic waves can be blocked out by using Magnetic Shield Foil MU-Metal,

Faraday Cages, & Inductor/Transformer Fields.

        Conductive glass, paint,  and brick material can be used to block out some

forms of radiation and sound.

        A metal plate with two electordes in it to create a force field which can be

tuned to different frequencies and energies may be used to

                block out radiation.

        Shielded fabrics can be purchased to block out some forms of radiation. Contact

Less EMF (518) 392-1946, 26 Valley View Lane, Ghent Ny 12075 USA,

        for such fabrics.

        Metal with 3" inches of vacuum in it to block out sound.

        Crystal fibers woven in materials to block out gravit waves and heal bodily

frequencies.

        4 feet of specilized plastics to block out gravity waves.

        Ceramics may block out or absorb some gravity waves and subatomic partilces.

       

II.Engineered composite materials that can be used to absorb, block out, or

deflect radiation.

        Current Research:

        1. Current research is being done on the reflective and absorbance properties

of all electromagnetic frequencies on metals and other materials. This research

will also

                attempt to consider the effects of intensities of radiation at each frequency

on different materials. 

        Other research areas include:

        1. Composite materials that may be engineered to absorb or reflect all known

forms of electromagnetic radiation at any frequency or intensity.

                Such materials may be comprised of a combination of conductive microcircuits,

plastics, metals, vacuums, and cooling systems.

        2. The 4th dimensional properties of materials and radiation.

       

        There are speculated composite materials which can completely (100%) block out

all forms of electromagnetic radiation and

        all forms of directed radiation beams but these materials are kept secret from

the general public.

        RHF is interested in doing research on composite materials which can block out,

deflect or absorb all forms

        of directed energy beams which may include high intensity radio frequency

beams, masers, and lasers.

       

[Top of Document]

*

Research in force fields, cold plasma, and lasers, and directed energy beams

that can be used to deflect,

        absorb, & block out all forms of radiation especially sound, radio waves &

directed radio frequency beams,

        high intensity lasers, directed energy beams, uv, infrared, & electronic

harassment radiations.

               

        I.Standard force fields which can be used to block out some forms of radiation

       

                Jamming devices to jam microwaves, ELF waves, & magnetic waves may be used to

block out radiation.

                        Alter the magnetic frequencies of the body and generate negative wavelengths

of other

                        frequencies involved. I.E. Create a magnetic field around your body by means

of placing magnets

                        around your body, or rotating magnets. Also a conductive coil placed around

your body may work.

                        Creating mangetic noise or other noise from the sounds of motors and other

electronic devices may help to

                        jam some of the radiation being directed at a human target.  A screen which

has a reversing high frequency voltage and

                        a reversing magnetic field.

                        See U.S. patent numbers 5213562, 5356368, 3647970, 5101831.

               

                Magnetic fields created with an induction or transformer coil can be used

                        to block out some forms of radiation and magnetic fields.

                Radio frequency jammers can be used to interfere with and absorb radio

frequency waves.

                Ion generators as used in air purifiers can be used to filter the air and

block out some forms of radiation.

                EMF neutralizers and shields can be purchased which can block out some forms

of radiation.

                        Contact Less EMF (518) 392-1946, 26 Valley View Lane, Ghent Ny 12075 USA for

the following products:

                        i.e. Bioshield 2000 which is a small magnetic oscillator producing a

directional 7.8 Hz field.

                            Electrosmog Corrector

                            Telsar Watch

                            Earthsafe (Tunable Schumann Field Device from 2Hz to 20 Hz)

                Polarizers can be used to absorb some forms of radiation

                        Contact Less EMF (518) 392-1946, 26 Valley View Lane, Ghent Ny 12075 USA for

the following products:

                        i.e. Life Field Polarizer

               

                For more information on how high intensity directed energy beams

                may be used in electronic harassment click on speculation.

                "Voltages can cause harm, and your are totally responsible for

                your own safety. Also please note that the radiation effects of the above devices

                are unknown and in the using the device your situation may change from worse

to bad.".

       

        II. Engineered Force fields, directed energy beam, laser, mazer jamming,

defection, absorption, and blocking devices

               

                RHF is interested in research in the following areas:

                1. Cold Plasma Force Fields see  Force Fields. 

                        Also please see U.S. Pat. Nos. 5,414,324, 5,387,842, and 5,456,972

                        at  http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html, which show how to use

radio-frequency waves

                        to energise a gas such as air to create a plasma, which could be used as a

force field

                        to absorb or deflect directed energies and radiations.

                2. Directed energy beam (radio frequency beams),laser, and mazer detection and

jamming devices

                       

                3. Some laser detection devices already exist such as:

                        Communication Wave tracking and identification       

                                PCO Laser Radiation Warning System

                                        Detection and indication of radiation from laser range finders and target

                                        markers & indication of the direction to the radiating source.

                                        Determination of the type of the radiation source &

                                        indication of time elapsing from the moment of detection of laser.

                        ITU-compliant Mobile spectrum monitoring and Direction Finding DF System

                                Identify, classify, locate , and analyze intercepted signals traffic

                        Electronic Intelligence System

                        CS-2221 receiving System

       

                4. Fourth dimensional properties of force fields.

[Top of Document]

*

Research in measuring instruments, techniques, and procedures which can be used to

        sense, test, and record all forms of radiation especially sound, radio waves &

directed radio frequency beams,

        high intensity lasers, directed energy beams, uv, infrared, & electronic

harassment radiations.

       

        I.Currently available standard radiation testing equipment and procedures

               

                In construction.

        II.Electronic harassment testing equipment and procedures

       

                RHF is interested in researching techniques, procedures and equipment that can

                be specifically used to detect & record radiation, lasers and directed

energies used

                in electronic harassment. RHF is also interested in researching biomedical

testing techniques which can

                indirectly be used to show the amounts of radiation in the human body. Such

techniques might include very specific

                and precise measurements of the amount of heat energy and pressure at a

specific point in the body such as on the forehead

                or in the eyes. Measuring techniques already exist to measure the amount of

radiation emitted from the body in a thermogram but these

                techniques may not be able to specifically and precisely measure the exact

amount of heat in the eyes or forehead for instance.

                The directed energy beams used in electronic harassment may not be detected by

                standard electromagnetic meters since those meters may not be fine enough or

since the directed energy beams may pass right

                through the metal detector plates. Also some forms of 4th dimensional

properties of radiation and energy man be used in directing

                forms of radiant energy through metals and other materials in electronic

harassment.  4th dimensional properties may not be detected

                by standard electromagnetic meters.

                It should be also noted that techniques would have to be developed

                which could measure the radiation levels, and the affected biological

properties (pressure, heat, & electrical)

                within and around a human organism. The measuring techniques would have to be

reliable under difficult circumstances

                since the accuracy of the measuring equipment could be affected by the

suspected harassing directed energy beams.

                An energy beam could, for instance change the properties of an electrical

component such as a magnetic coil

                in a measuring device. Techniques would have to be developed to calibrate the

testing equipment, and to continuously recalibrate

                the testing equipment during a measurement.  Also special shielding might

developed to guarantee the accuracy of the testing equipment.

                Techniques and procedures would have to be developed to measure the

environmental variables such as pressure, heat, humidity, natural radiation levels,

                around a test subject. Also techniques would have to be developed to precisely

and accurately measure all the relevant biomedical parameters of test

                subject over long periods of time.  Many of the above techniques may already

exist in part from medical physics but these techniques would have to be

                repackaged and described in manuals which could be used by a physician, law

enforcement officer, or an ordinary group of citizens. 

                Current areas of research:

                1. Standard biomedical measuring equipment.

                2. Standard electromagnetic measuring equipment.

                3. Inventive engineering of new types of electronic harassment measuring

devices and procedures.

                        Special pieces of equipment that work like a polygraph could be developed

which measure

                                several different biomedical parameters (respiration, skin resistance, pulse

rate,

                                pulse amplitude, magneto and electro grams, & temperature)

                                at the same time to test for indirect effects of electronic harassment.

                        Radiation measuring meters which use methods to detect radiation that can

pass through metals

                                and radiation that jumps around quickly or is 4 dimensional in nature.

                4. Magnetic, electrical, & frequency properties of the human body.

                5. Radiant auras, holography and 4th dimensional properties of the human body.

                        Kirlian Photography - which captures on film the aura of a person subjected

to high frequency.

                        Holographic photography - using high speed film.

                6. Psychotronics.

[Top of Document]

*

Research in energy sources such as forms of highly compact portable safe energy

to be used to power portable force fields.

        RHF is interested in researching energy sources & technologies that can be made

highly compact

        to be used to power force fields or directed energy beams, lasers, & mazers to

be used in jamming devices.

        For more information on how high intensity directed energy beams

        may be used in electronic harassment click on speculation.

       

[Top of Document]

*

        Many materials used to block out ordinary radiation may only block out a small

percent of directed high intensity radiation

        coming from directed energy beams (such as radio frequency beams, mazers, and

lasers. A directed energy beam may continually

        increase the intensity the energy and the radiation transfer rate of energy in

the radiation to penetrate materials.

        It is speculated that radio frequency beams with frequencies in the hundred

megahertz or greater range (TV(UHF), Cellular Phone & FM frequencies)

        may be used in electronic harassment.

        In order to block out sophisticated tracking and targeting directed energy

beams one may need a material which

        completely (100%) blocks out a high powered directed energy beam and such

materials are speculated to exist but are kept top secret.

        Also it is speculated that multiple directed energy beams may be directed at an

object. These energy beams each individually may have their own

        frequency properties which when combined with the other energy beams at an

intersection point may create new frequency patterns through a mixing

        of frequencies.  Two radio frequency beams which may have harmless radio

frequency properties separately when combined at an intersection point

        may have harmful mixing radio frequency properties. Mixed radio frequency beams

may be used to simulate sound by changing the pressure (expansion

        and compression) properties of the gases and liquids in and around the human

body.  Also mixed radio frequency beams may cary information such as

        holographic images, and sound waves which may be perceived by the human brain

when directed at a human being.

        There is  a U.S. patent, number 5,952,600, which completely explains in detail

how two intersecting lasers are

        used to stun & electrocute people and cars:

        "This invention relates to weapons and more particularly to a

        type of non-disabling weapon which may be used by military

        personnel or law enforcement agents for the temporary

        immobilization of a target subject or subjects. The invention

        also relates to muscle tissue involuntary contraction by

        application of electric current identical to or closely

        approximating the physiological neuroelectric impulses which

        control muscle movements. This weapon may further be used

        to stop an automobile or other vehicle by disabling the

        electronic circuits which control its engine. U.S. Patent 5,952,600"

        "Tetanization is the stimulation of muscle tissue by a rapid

        series of electrical impulses of such frequency as to fuse

        individual muscle contractions into a single sustained

        contraction. Tetanization is a well-known phenomenon: see

        Offner, "Stimulation With Minimum Power," Journal of

        Neurophysiology, Vol. 9, pp. 387-390, 1946; Dalziel, "Effect

        of Wave Form on Let-go Currents," AIEE Transactions, Vol.

        62, pp. 739-744, 1943; Dalziel and Lee, "Lethal Electrical

        Currents," IEEE Spectrum, Vol. 6, pp. 44-50, 1969; Dalziel,

        Ogden, and Abbott, "Effect of Frequency on Let-go Currents,"

        AIEE Transactions, Vol. 62, pp. 745-750, 1943;

        Kouwenhoven, Hooker and Lotz, "Electrical Shock Effects of

        Frequency," Electrical Engineering, Vol. 55, pp. 384-386,

        1936; and Ferris et al., "Effects of Electrical Shock on the

        Heart," Electrical Engineering, Vol. 55, pp. 498-515, 1936. U.S. Patent 5,952,600 "

        "A non-lethal weapon for disabling an engine such as that of a

        fleeing car by means of a high voltage discharge that perturbs

        or destroys the electrical circuits. The transmission of the

        disabling voltage to the distant target is via two channels of

        electrically conductive air. The conductive channels are

        created by multi-photon and collisional ionization within the

        paths of two beams of coherent (laser) or collimated incoherent

        ultraviolet radiation directed to the target. A single beam may

        be used when the high voltage source and the target are

        grounded. The high-voltage current flows from electrodes at

        the origin of the beams along the channels of free electrons

        within them. U.S. Patent 5,952,600"

        The full details of the patent is on line at the US Patent and

        Trade Mark Office at  http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html:

        The engine disabling patent U.S. Patent 5,952,600 is located at:

        http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ifetch4?ENG+PATBIB-

        ALL+0+971730+0+7+107894+OF+1+1+1+PN%2f5952600

        Since magnetic induction may be used to create alternating eddy currents in the

human body producing joule heating and electricity in the body,

        it may be possible to use magnetic energy beams in electronic harassment; and,

magnetic beams may pass through metals. Furthermore, electrical

        circuits may create heating and burns on the body. Electromagnetic radiation

may be used to create or effect electric circuits in the human body

        which can cause heating, burns, seizures, organ dysfunctions etc.  The directed

energy beams used in electronic harassment may not be detected by

        standard electromagnetic meters since those meters may not be fine enough or

since the directed energy beams may pass right through the metal detector plates.

       

        Through the use of the principles of the physics of dielectrokinetics, static

field detection, dielectrophoresis, electrostatics, electrodynamics,

electromagnetics,

        DC and extremely low frequency AC, it may be possible to detect objects through

metals and other materials.

        Dielectrophoresis is the motion of electrically polarised matter in nonuniform

fields

        Electrophoresis the movement of charged particles .

       

        Electric signals at ultra-low frequencies travel right through barriers that

absorb or reflect higher

        frequency energy. Every object has it own weighted charge which is summed with

the ambient atmospheric field to create an

        electric field signature which can be detected by sensors matching the

characteristics to a field of opposite polarity.

       

        For more information please refer to:

        Time-Varying Electrostatic Modeling Techniques, David M. Hull , U.S. Army

Research Laboratory at

        http://sensor.sanders.com/public/sensors97...racts/2_rf.html and to Hull,

David M., and Steven Vinci. 

        Passive Detection and Noncooperative Target Identification of Helicopters Using

Extremely Low Frequency

        (ELF) Electric Field Sensor. 1998 Army Science Conference Proceedings, June

15-17, 1998

        Subatomic particles, Tesla high energy radiant electicity, gravity waves or

gravitons may be used in

        directed energy beams to pass through all known substances at great distances.

       

        Sound waves, ultrasound, and infrasouind may be used to pass through most

substances which do not have

        a vacuum.

        There is  a U.S. patent, 5,159,703 number , which completely explains in detail

how silent sounds

        may be used in electronic harassment:

               

       

        "A silent communications system in which nonaural carriers, in the very low or

very high audio frequency

        range or in the adjacent ultrasonic frequency spectrum, are amplitude or

frequency modulated with the desired

        intelligence and propagated acoustically or vibrationally, for inducement into

the brain, typically through the

        use of loudspeakers, earphones or piezoelectric transducers. The modulated

carriers may be transmitted directly

        in real time or may be conveniently recorded and stored on mechanical,

magnetic or optical media for delayed or

        repeated transmission to the listener. "

        The full details of the patent is on line at the US Patent and

        Trade Mark Office at  http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html:

        The silent subliminal presentation system patent U.S. Patent 5,159,703 is

located at:

               

        http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?S...=1&u=/netahtml/

                srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5159703'.WKU.&OS=PN/5159703&RS=PN/5159703

        Cosmic rays may be created on a satellite by plasma creations. A magnetic gauss

field compresses

        waves to compress plasma which creates cosmic particles. These cosmic particles

are tuned to an ELF

        frequency to make a focused beam of cosmic rays.  The ELF waves are tuned to

the frequencies of the human body and brain

        which allows the ELF beams to pass through materials.

        EMF beams may be created by weak force electromagnetic energy/pyramid

energy/Telsa's electromagnetic pyramids. Weak force emf

        is different from strong force emf, since it travels further and penetrates

everything and it can not be measured by standard emf

        devices. A high frequency photograph might show strong emf's on the body.

[Top of Document]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After looking at your bio. it makes perfect sense to me. Didn't they promoted you twice after the 1st ed. of "6 Seconds." How clever of you to notice that, Len!

If you want to see another example of "your nemesis" making a fool of himself check out the link that Craig provided. Fetzer had a bit of a conniption fit. In the thread an aerospace engineer takes Cotella's EMP chapter to pieces and Jimmy didn't take it well. Thanks.

I'm sure you're extremely jealous of Fetzer, teaching at UM-Duluth is close to the pinnacle of academic achievement. You sure got that right, Len. A real "pinnacle of academic achievement" (as you put it) on the not often placid shores of Lake Superior. On the other hand, they've got this really tough policy on sexual harassment. If they catch you... even if you're a full professor... they suspend your ass without pay. It's tough living up there with no pay... stimulates you to do something else.... say write a book on the Wellstone crash and cash in on the controversy created.

  Now he means to claim that my quitting a tenured professorship at Haverford in 1978 has something to do with making a copy of the Zapruder film in the TIME/LIFE building twelve years before in 1966.   Of course since he has no evidence, he insinuates this.  He says: “I strongly suspect.”  This is classic fetzering.  If you have no evidence, try to destroy your opponent’s character with innuendo and false charges.

Tink

After looking at your bio. it makes perfect sense to me. Didn't they promoted you twice after the 1st ed. of "6 Seconds".

If you want to see another example of "your nemesis" making a fool of himself check out the link that Craig provided. Fetzer had a bit of a conniption fit. In the thread an aerospace engineer takes Cotella's EMP chapter to pieces and Jimmy didn't take it well.

I'm sure you're extremely jealous of Fetzer, teaching at UM-Duluth is close to the pinnacle of academic achievement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"I fail to see much difference in Fetzer's leaving the Marines to become an academic and Thompson's leaving academia to become a P.I. Both were respectable career choices. People are allowed to make changes in their life to better their station in life and/or increase their happiness, last that I checked."

Nice point, Pat. You're right. But now wouldn't we all like to hear how going for a hop in a jet piloted by someone else qualifies someone to claim: "I piloted a jet." At least that has something to do with the Wellstone plane crash. Would it be possible for the Great Man himself to admit that saying that was just a stupid mistake? Good lord, even people with "Ph.D." always plastered after their name sometimes make mistakes.

Perhaps the Professor might lead us back to the center of the argument by explaining precisely what factors show that his explanation of the crash trumps the exhaustive investigation of the NTSB. It's just not enough to say (and not attempt to show) that the NTSB was part of the coverup. So have a go, Professor. Quit fetzering, assume that the rest of us might just be as intelligent as you and Four Arrows, and lay out your case.

I'm waiting and listening.

I swear, this thread is like a visit to bizarro-world.  Here we have two of the best-educated men to ever write on the Kennedy assassination throwing food at each other in a cafeteria.  If I may be so bold as to insert myself between the warring parties, let me say that, to a disinterested (but fascinated) onlooker,  Fetzer's calling Tink a thief for doing what almost any concerned JFK researcher would have done is hitting below the belt, as is Thompson's questioning Fetzer's bravery and patriotism for bowing out of the military when Vietnam was heating up.  I fail to see much difference in Fetzer's leaving the Marines to become an academic and Thompson's leaving academia to become a P.I.  Both were respectable career choices. People are allowed to make changes in their life to better their station in life and/or increase their happiness, last that I checked.

As to the Wellstone crash, I think Evan touches on a good point.  Are there OTHER explanations for the crash that haven't been explored?  As I understand it, Fetzer's book has two elements to it:  one, that Wellstone was murdered for political reasons; and two, that there are high tech weapons that may have been used in the assassination.  If there are alternative explanations for part one than two, they should be explored and not viewed as a challenge to Fetzer's basic points.

To that end, is there any evidence the pilots were even conscious in the moments before the crash? If not, has anyone explored ways in which they could have been rendered unconscious? Could the smoke of a small electrical fire in the cabin knock them out?  Could a remote-control incendiary device be used to achieve this same effect? Has there even been any research into these things? I would bet that somewhere in the libraries of the FBI, the CIA and NTSB, is a report on how planes can be made to crash and look like accidents.  Has anyone ever acknowledged such a report exists?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! The Professor has outfetzered himself. A bravura performance of fetzering!!!

Instead of dealing with the point at issue — whether being taken up in a training plane by a Navy pilot forty years ago and touching the controls constitutes “piloting a jet”?! — Fetzer sprays his usual bile and then loads up the site with irrelevant quotes. I’ll ignore the irrelevant quotes and comment on what Fetzer took the time to write himself.

Fetzer wrote: “Incidentally, I hope no one is being taken in by the sleazy practice of misquoting me and distorting my position to make cheap points, which are the only points that some of these critics are capable of making. Thompson's latest is a nice example.”

Okay Professor. How are you being misquoted?

I said, “Neither [Fetzer nor Four Arrows] has ever piloted an aircraft and their analysis shows that they know butkus about aviation.” You replied: “I piloted a jet as a midshipman while I was in college.” I pointed out that this was hilarious, that you never “piloted” anything as a midshipman. You replied that I had put words in your mouth: “I said I had piloted a jet; I did not claim to be a ‘jet pilot.’” The text shows clearly that this is false, that I quoted you correctly in pointing out what you said: “I had piloted a jet.” Your own words hang you and then you try to get out of it. Typical fetzering.

Fetzer wrote: “Read it carefully and compare it with the post he would like you to think he is quoting. Sometimes the deception can be as subtle as changing a period into a comma. The man has a Ph.D. in philosophy from Yale and must know what he is doing. He is playing the members of this forum for saps, insulting their intelligence.”

What on earth are you talking about? “Changing a period into a comma..” Huh?

Fetzer wrote: “Surely my four years with the USMC are at least equal to his two in the UDT! Anyone with military experience should be able to see through his distortions, which are in line with his long string of abuses of logic and language in attacks upon me, which appear to be motivated from a combination of envy regarding my academic accomplishments compared to his and supporting research that has revealed the Zapruder film was recreated to provide a phony account of the death of JFK, which means his book was based on the study of a fake film.”

Huh? You are the only one comparing military experience between the two of us. Unlike you, I don’t talk about mine. The rest of this quote is just the usual fetzering bloviation. We’ve all heard it before and it doesn’t connect with anything.

Fetzer wrote: “Notice how he deflects attention from his departure from Haverford, which, I strongly suspect, was related to his acknowledged theft of film from Time/Life.)”

When he can’t win an argument on its merits (the Professor’s flight as a midshipman), he begins throwing the vitriol. Now he means to claim that my quitting a tenured professorship at Haverford in 1978 has something to do with making a copy of the Zapruder film in the TIME/LIFE building twelve years before in 1966. Of course since he has no evidence, he insinuates this. He says: “I strongly suspect.” This is classic fetzering. If you have no evidence, try to destroy your opponent’s character with innuendo and false charges.

First off, I left Haverford because I was bored. It had nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination. That leaving is fully described in a book I published in 1988 called Gumshoe.

Secondly, I’m rather proud of making that copy of the Zapruder film in the TIME/LIFE building in November of 1966. I’m happy to take credit for it and have done it again and again. I testified before the ARRB about it. I offered an oral history about it for the Sixth Floor Museum’s oral history. Finally, I published an account of it in Richard Trask’s new book on the Zapruder film. If there was anything about it that reflected badly on me, I probably would have shut up. Right Professor? But I didn’t. What does that tell you?

The reader can make up his/her mind because below is a full description of what happened as drawn from Trask’s new book:

“Early November 1966 I flew to Dallas and met Kern and Billings and Patsy Swank there. [swank was a LIFE stringer who had originally let magazine personnel know about the existence of the Zapruder film.] Using 4" by 5" transparencies, we interviewed Dr. Charles Gregory who in 1963 had treated the wounded Governor John Connally. We returned to the hotel leaving the transparencies with Henry Suydam, LIFE’s Miami bureau chief. We returned from dinner to the hotel room. I said I’d like to study the transparencies and take them to my room. Before leaving the room, I inventoried the stack of transparencies and found that four (in the 230s) were missing. They were present there when we showed the transparencies to Dr. Gregory. I left the stack in the room. I learned subsequently that the next morning Ed Kern distracted Henry Suydam while Billings searched Suydam’s room. The missing transparencies were not found.”

“Mid-November 1966 I didn’t know what was going on. I suspected that there was some power struggle at LIFE in motion, but I had not a clue what it was about and who was on what side. I decided that it would be an extremely good idea for a good copy of the relevant frames to exist outside the Time-Life Building. I put a 35 mm camera with a copying stand and 15 or so rolls of film in my brief case and went up to New York on the Thursday or Friday before the issue entitled “A Matter of Reasonable Doubt” closed. Kern and Billings left by about 5:00 PM. I stayed. I set up my copying stand over the light table in Kern’s office and started copying the 4" by 5" transparencies. Kern came back and said, “What’re you doing, Tink?” I replied, “I’m copying some frames from the goddam film. I need to study them down in Philadelphia.” Kern said nothing and then left. I spent the next two hours or so copying the remaining frames until my film was exhausted. We learned in the lawsuit [later filed by Time Inc.] that the following Monday Kern told the editor of LIFE, George Hunt, that he had come back and found me copying the film. Hunt later signed a consultancy contract with me which legally gave me permission to have a copy for my own research use. “

National Nightmare on Six Feet of Film by Richard B. Trask (Danvers, Massachusettes: Yeoman Press, 2005), pages 364-365.

Checking out "mazers", microwave lasers, has turned up some interesting stuff.

I noticed a couple of paragraphs buried in the data, such as (A) and (, which

illustrate why this appears relevant as another kind of EM weapon that might

have been involved in bringing down the Wellstone plane. We can expect the

usual flurry from Colby, Lamson, Burton and Thompson. (Incidentally, I hope

no one is being taken in by the sleazy practice of misquoting me and distorting

my position to make cheap points, which are the only points that some of these

critics are capable of making. Thompson's latest is a nice example. Read it

carefully and compare it with the post he would like you to think he is quoting.

Sometimes the deception can be as subtle as changing a period into a comma.

The man has a Ph.D. in philosophy from Yale and must know what he is doing.

He is playing the members of this forum for saps, insulting their intelligence.

Surely my four years with the USMC are at least equal to his two in the UDT!

Anyone with military experience should be able to see through his distortions,

which are in line with his long string of abuses of logic and languge in attacks

upon me, which appear to be motivated from a combination of envy regarding

my academic accomplishments compared to his and supporting research that

has revealed the Zapruder film was recreated to provide a phony account of

the death of JFK, which means his book was based on the study of a fake film.

Notice how he deflects attention from his departure from Haverford, which, I

strongly suspect, was related to his acknowledged theft of film from Time/Life.)....

For those of us who have been arguing this topic, it might be useful to put together a collection of "Fetzer's Follies."

I have in mind the various claims he's made about Wellstone's crash and how they turned out to be not credible. For example, Fetzer has claimed that "communication with the plane was suddenly lost." Of course, this is false since the plane made all its usual and standard communication transmissions. Or recently, Fetzer claimed that there was something sinister in the fact that the propellers were not providing much thrust at the time of the crash. Investigation showed that the propeller's thrust was appropriate for where the plane was in its landing approach; what Fetzer saw as sinister was quite normal and proper. This list could be endlessly extended.

I offer this because it seems likely that the Professor is not going to defend his spin in a T-33 in the early 1960s (with a Navy pilot at the controls) as grounding his vast knowledge of aviation. Too bad. I was looking forward to that.

A swell idea, Evan.  Since the plane just got ahead of the flight crew, one could claim that it was a conspiracy and not just a series of cascading mistakes that crashed the plane.  The only problem in claiming they crashed it deliberately is that they were on it!  We have to assume they were suicide pilots who believed Bush when he promised them 37 Texas virgins in the afterlife!

Don't hold your breath but the Great Wind might buy it and abandon his present theory which is pretty much in tatters.

Mr Fetzer,

Why do you cling to your theory when it borders on the ridiculous?  Why don't you attack the problem from a new direction, like any logical person would do?

There may well have been 'foul play' in the crash - it's simply NOT as you have hypothesised.  Can't you understand that?

What about the flight crew?  Either one or both might have deliberately crashed the aircraft.  Have their been any checks on whether their families received any unusual sums of money?  Any insurance payouts?  Stuff like that.

Futuristic weapons are not required.  Why don't you develop a theory that does fit the facts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Na Tink...a deranged pilot is just not as sexy as some death ray. Just think, the sound bites on Air America and Black Op radio would just not have the same impact. Not to mention the presser at the National Press Club.

Nope death rays sell way more books.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A swell idea, Evan. Since the plane just got ahead of the flight crew, one could claim that it was a conspiracy and not just a series of cascading mistakes that crashed the plane. The only problem in claiming they crashed it deliberately is that they were on it! We have to assume they were suicide pilots who believed Bush when he promised them 37 Texas virgins in the afterlife!

Don't hold your breath but the Great Wind might buy it and abandon his present theory which is pretty much in tatters.

Mr Fetzer,

Why do you cling to your theory when it borders on the ridiculous?  Why don't you attack the problem from a new direction, like any logical person would do?

There may well have been 'foul play' in the crash - it's simply NOT as you have hypothesised.  Can't you understand that?

What about the flight crew?  Either one or both might have deliberately crashed the aircraft.  Have their been any checks on whether their families received any unusual sums of money?  Any insurance payouts?  Stuff like that.

Futuristic weapons are not required.  Why don't you develop a theory that does fit the facts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Professor, for a scintillating example of “fetzering.” You duck and cover like no one else.

This all began with me reviewing your latest book on Amazon. I wrote in a review:

“The two co-authors parade their Ph.D.s in philosophy and education to make you believe they are serious analysts. They aren't. Neither has ever piloted an aircraft and their analysis shows that they know butkus about aviation.”

You reply:

“I piloted a jet as a midshipman while I was in college. There is ample evidence of knowledge of aviation and expert contributions distributed throughout our research.”

No, there isn’t any of that “ample evidence.” If anyone cares to look at what you and Four Arrows put out, they’ll grasp immediately that both of you know zilch about aviation. Then you make your big claim:“I piloted a jet as a midshipman while I was in college.”

This is hilarious! You no more piloted a jet than I just flew to the moon and back. During your summer NROTC camp, a real pilot took you up for a spin in a T-33. While in the air, the pilot let little Jimmy touch the controls. When you say, “I piloted a jet...” that’s what really happened. Right?

Of course, you can’t admit the silliness of your claim. You might say, “Hey, you’re right. I was just a tourist during that spin in a T-33. But it doesn’t matter because Four Arrows and I are professors. We have Ph.D.s and that means we’re really smart.... much smarter than you dummies on this board.” That’s what you’d really like to say but you know you can’t say that. So what do you do, you fetzer!

You don’t deny that your “piloting a jet” was just as described. [“Here young midshipman Jimmy. Put your hand on the stick and see how it feels. That’s fine. Now keep your hands off everything while I land this mother.”] Instead, you change the subject. That evil guy Thompson, you claim, has put words in your mouth: “I said I had piloted a jet; I did not claim to be a ‘jet pilot.’” Sorry, Professor, but fetzering can’t get you out of this. I said (see above) that neither you nor Four Arrows “has ever piloted an aircraft.” So I guess you’re going to have to show us that touching the controls while someone else flew the plane is really “piloting a jet.” Go on, have a go at it. It’ll be a lot of fun watching.

And as for “skedaddling”... You write: “Before I was ‘skeddaddling’ away from a tour in Vietnam, I had served four years. It was time to pursue my professional career objectives.” You served four years because you had to. Then you neither resigned from the Marine Corps on principle nor stayed in out of loyalty to the Corps. Nope. In 1966, just when the Marine Corps desperately needed lieutenants and captains in Vietnam, you elected “to pursue my professional career opportunities.”

My point exactly! Sic semper blowhards!

Tsk, tsk Professor. You really are so attractive when you huff and puff and rant and rave.

You wrote:

"I did not make it into a big deal because it wasn't a big deal, but I briefly piloted a T-33 during that phase of my training. There were other aspects to

it, of course, but what he was asserting was literally false."

A T-33 was a two-place training plane. The real pilot took off and landed the plane. For a few seconds while you and the pilot were aloft, he let little Jimmy put his hands on the stick. That's what you are trying to bootstrap into "I piloted a T-33 during that phase of my training." And it's that vast experience in a T-33.... isn't it?.... that you earlier claimed qualified you to understand what happened in the Wellstone crash.

The rest is the usual Fetzerian rant. But thank you for confirming that you sat on your ass in Okinawa and went to a recruit depot before skedaddling from the Marine Corps in June 1966 when the Vietnam War was heating up and the Marine Corps needed lieutenants and captains. As for your claim concerning the Zapruder film... the full story of this is being told in the just published scholarly book by Richard B. Trask, National Nightmare on Six Feet of Film (Danvers Mass.:Yeoman Press, 2005). As in David Wrone's earlier scholarly work on the Zapruder film, The Zapruder Film: Reframing JFK's Assassination(Lawrence, Kansas: The University of Kansas Press, 2003) your tabloid style of research provides only comedic interest for both authors. Why is it, Professor, that real scholars take your work to be silly?

Now back to the Wellstone crash and that "bluish smoke."

I have to disagree with you about a detail, Len. You wrote:

"Obviously that assertion with regards to Tink is absurd. While he was writing one of the first books to challenge the Warren Report, you were a Vietnam era volunteer [?] Marine officer."

Actually, Fetzer skedaddled out of the Marine Corps as soon as Vietnam heated up and headed off to graduate school in 1966. He had been NROTC at Princeton. Remember his claim to have "piloted a jet?" Remember how he magically transformed being taken up in a jet by a real pilot ("Here Jimmy, you can put your hands on the stick for a few seconds.") during NROTC summer camp into being a jet pilot and familiar with aviation? Fetzer was obliged to go into the Marine Corps and did so, spending his first several years sitting on his ass in Okinawa and his last year or so minding statistics at a recruit base in San Diego which sent kids off to fight and die in Vietnam. So he wasn't a "volunteer." Nor was he a "Vietnam era Marine officer" because he ducked it.

Fetzer's claim that his time in the Marine Corps makes him an experienced warrior is about as bogus as his claim that touching the control stick for a few seconds makes him a "jet pilot."

"With this post, Evan Burton proves that he has no serious commitment to the

truth in the Wellstone case, since we devote more than a chapter to laying out

the evidence that the White House wanted to get rid of him. I am appalled at

the level of ignorance displayed by some members of this forum, which does

not seem to inhibit them from making assertions that are not only false but

even provably false. I suggest Burton exercise just a modicum of effort to

ascertain whether or not his suggestion is even remotely reasonable, which

it is not. Egad! This guy really doesn't know even the basics about this case." (earlier post by James Fetzer, Ph.D.)

Fetzer is so maddeningly predictable.  Evan Burton is a pilot who, like Colonel Rees, knows more about aviation than Fetzer will ever know (all this in spite of Fetzer's earlier claim that he "piloted a jet").  Immediately, Fetzer's response is to malign Burton's motives ("he has no serious commitment to the truth in the Wellstone case") and claim falsely that "this guy really doesn't know even the basics about this case."  It is this pomposity and eagerness to insult and attack the character of those with whom he disagrees that makes Fetzer such a desirable target.  I don't know about Craig or Len but I find difficult to ignore a blowhard who keeps pompously claiming indisputable results based upon nothing more than his own mistaken opinions.  Long ago, Fetzer embarrassed himself with the assassination research community and moved on to the next "conspiracy du jour."  He could move on again. He could take a shot at the idea that George and Laura Bush personally dynamited the levees in New Orleans.  How about it, Professor?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"With this post, Evan Burton proves that he has no serious commitment to the

truth in the Wellstone case, since we devote more than a chapter to laying out

the evidence that the White House wanted to get rid of him. I am appalled at

the level of ignorance displayed by some members of this forum, which does

not seem to inhibit them from making assertions that are not only false but

even provably false. I suggest Burton exercise just a modicum of effort to

ascertain whether or not his suggestion is even remotely reasonable, which

it is not. Egad! This guy really doesn't know even the basics about this case."

Fetzer is so maddeningly predictable. Evan Burton is a pilot who, like Colonel Rees, knows more about aviation than Fetzer will ever know (all this in spite of Fetzer's earlier claim that he "piloted a jet"). Immediately, Fetzer's response is to malign Burton's motives ("he has no serious commitment to the truth in the Wellstone case") and claim falsely that "this guy really doesn't know even the basics about this case." It is this pomposity and eagerness to insult and attack the character of those with whom he disagrees that makes Fetzer such a desirable target. I don't know about Craig or Len but I find difficult to ignore a blowhard who keeps pompously claiming indisputable results based upon nothing more than his own mistaken opinions. Long ago, Fetzer embarrassed himself with the assassination research community and moved on to the next "conspiracy du jour." He could move on again. He could take a shot at the idea that George and Laura Bush personally dynamited the levees in New Orleans. How about it, Professor?

How nice of you to join this thread, Mr. Burton. When Professor Fetzer first started replying on the Yahoo Forum, Colonel Rees joined the Yahoo Forum and quickly deflated the Professor. At that time, Professor Fetzer was making various claims about "the Eveleth tower." Colonel Rees pointed out that "Eveleth didn't have a tower." Now you perform a similar function. The Professor makes various claims having to do with a GPS approach. You then point out that the evidence indicates that the Wellstone plane was making a VOR approach.

As soon as anyone with any real aviation knowledge and experience looks at Fetzer's claims, they crash and burn. The Professor, of course, has vast experience in the aviation field. Recall that he told us that "I piloted a jet." Well, it turns out that this was a bit of an exaggeration on his part. By "piloting a jet," what he really meant was that a Navy jet pilot took him up for a short spin while Fetzer was at NROTC summer camp during college some forty years ago! Fetzer may have even... for a few seconds... have actually put his hand on the stick!

He presents such a huge target that many would just give the old blowhard a free pass. But then he starts his vitriol in which anyone who disagrees with him is labeled "an agent of disinformation" or "cognitively impaired" or "massively ignorant." That inspires folks like Len or me or Craig to give him a full blast.

Thanks for coming aboard! I can't wait to see how Fetzer will label you.

Len, you and Hobo, have done such a brilliant job of exposing the "Fetzering" of the Great Wind from the North, I regret that it can't be just moved over to this board. No, I believe you.

I hold the copyright to "Six Seconds" and the rights to publish the Zapruder film deriving from Judge Wyatt's decision back in 1968. I'm sort of old-fashioned and would like a new edition to published like a regular book by a kind of standard publisher. I would write an update section. I think the project is viable. I just haven't found a publisher yet who would want to take it on. But I'm still trying.

I wish Hobo could be persuaded to move over and join us.

Fetzer is sort of like the guy who starts a fight in a bar and then crawls out between all the fighters' legs.

He left an earlier site because his attempted defense of his latest tabloid journalism effort was in the toilet. Len, Craig Lamson and Hobo had sent him skedaddling. He usually only appears on sites where he can be protected by his cronies like the moderator of JFKresearch.com, Rich Dellarosa. He won't reply to anything on Lancer. Usually, one can only coax him out by saying something about his books. So Len might well have sought if he made a reference to Posner Fetzer might show up.

Alas, it looks like Fetzer has skedaddled for good! Tabloid journalism in the form of faux scholarship is left undefended. And maybe that's the way it ought to end up.

Thank you for your reply. The following link doesn't work for me: http://homepage.mac.com/bkohley/Menu5.html. You mentioned that you were going to put your presentation online in a more finished mode. Let me know when you do that so that I can see it. Thanks.

Dear Mr. Speer,

Thank you for your questions and also for your reply to Professor Fetzer. I’ve been hiking in Wyoming for the last ten days and I just saw your post with its questions.

I don’t know exactly what happened in Dealey Plaza but I do know one thing: The claim that any single person (whether LHO or someone else) fired all the shots that day in Dealey Plaza is nonsense. That clearly did not happen. What exactly did happen is something we can approximate but not clearly know at this point. I guess both you and I are in the process of trying to narrow down that approximation.

Are there things in “Six Seconds” that I no longer back or believe in? Of course. Let me offer you an important example.

In “Six Seconds,” I claimed that JFK was hit in the head first from the rear and then from the front within two Zapruder frames (Z312-Z314) or one ninth of the a second. This claim was based on the autopsy data and the fact that JFK’s head moved about two inches forward between Z312 and Z313. Several years ago, Art Snyder of the Stanford Linear Accelerator demonstrated to me that my measurement was of the smear in Z313 and not of any movement of the head between these two frames. Within the last two years, David Wimp has demonstrated that JFK’s head begins moving forward about Z308 in concert with the forward movement of everyone else in the limousine. At Z314, JFK’s head and body begin moving backward at a high rate of speed while everyone else continues moving forward. Winp suggests that Greer’s foot may have touched the brake pedal when he turned around at Z302ff and that shifted everyone forward. In summary, I am now convinced that there is no evidence of a double impact on JFK’s head at Z312-314 of the Zapruder film. What we see there is a shot impacting from the right front and only a shot impacting from the right front. If he was shot in the head from the rear, that probably came later at Z327/328.

The kind of meticulous examination of the Zapruder film carried out by Snyder, Wimp and others shows what additional information responsible science (not assassinated science) can provide in figuring out what happened. That brings me to your suggestion that I should not have reviewed Professor Fetzer’s books as I did and thus discouraged others from reading them. You wrote in another thread, “As far as his going on to Amazon and trashing all of Dr. Fetzer's books, in an attempt to discourage people from even reading them, I do think that's a bit low... Mr. Thompson should apologize for publicly trashing Dr. Fetzer's books, while Dr. Fetzer should apologize for suggesting that Mr. Thompson, who put in a lot of work on the case in the 60's and was considered by many THE most convincing voice in argument for a conspiracy, was a disinformation agent on behalf of the CIA.... “

By his actions over the last decade, Professor Fetzer has shown himself to be a self-aggrandizing blowhard. You will be giving a talk at Lancer this November. I imagine that you will be talking about your reconstruction of what happened in Dealey Plaza. Am I right? For my part, on the same weekend I’ll be giving a talk at the ARRC conference in Washington. I’ll be pointing where we can find bedrock evidence in the Kennedy case. You and I have been invited to talk because, presumably, the sponsors of these conferences are convinced we may have something useful to say. Fetzer, because of his bilious style of attacking the character of those with whom he disagrees, will be appearing nowhere. Why? Because the critical community has gotten his number. As far as I can discern, he has made himself persona non grata.

I first tangled with him in 1998 when I expressed disagreement with his alteration claims and was told that I “was not qualified to have an opinion in these matters.” Later, we tangled at a Lancer Conference in that year which ended with the sponsor turning off the juice to Fetzer’s microphone. Since that time, he has proved incapable of answering any of the objections to his increasingly obsessive claims about the inauthenticity of the Zapruder film and has stooped to calling those like me who disagree with him “disinformation agents.” His socalled “assassination science” has turned out to be quackery.

His use of private remarks from Vincent Salandria fall in the same category. Vincent Salandria is one of the true heroes of the critical community concerned with the Kennedy assassination. His early articles in “The Minority of One” and “Liberation” still deserve respect as the first attempts to show that the evidence in the case failed to support the conclusions of the Warren Reportt. However, as you point out, his claim that the powers that be left a confused skein of evidence to bother us is just nonsense. It shows, again as you point out, that Salandria (like the rest of us) hasn’t been able to figure it out.

Fetzer’s various books have been refuted again and again. His style is that of the tabloid press and his conclusions no more probative than conclusions you or I would find in the “National Enquirer.” Claiming that untutored people are experts and that photos show what they clearly do not show is part and parcel of the Fetzer shtick. My reviews of his books are pungent but true. When I last checked Amazon re the Zapruder “Hoax” book, some nine or ten of the latest reviews from his readers were negative and much more scathing than mine.

One of his readers said, “Buy the book only for its entertainment value...” Another wrote, “On some pages it is like reading a weekend car ad... don’t waste money on it.” Another called it “pure nonsense.” Another said, “Fetzer’s theories are nutty and not worthwhile. It [the book] goes in the fiction section of the library together with the WARREN REPORT, CASE CLOSED and CONSPIRACY OF ONE.” Finally, one guy went so far as to say, “The fact that anyone, anyone at all (besides Jim Fetzer’s mother, found this book credible is evidence of the fact there are people out there who will believe ANYTHING. Fetzer in all his books, has yet to add anything of real historical value. Within the conspiracy world Fetzer is a god. [Nope! I don’t think so.] Within the legitimate academic circles of real historians, he is a carnival con man. This will eat at him forever.”

Why shouldn’t I warn others of the unreliable nature of these books? Isn’t that exactly what reviews are supposed to do? I pointed out what was wrong with his arguments. If they’re wrong this should be pointed out. If you want to save the Professor from criticism, you should persuade him not to publish such nonsense and then try to defend it so evasively with noxious bile.

However, it matters not to him. He has moved on to publishing even sillier claims about the plane crash which killed Senator Wellstone. If that doesn’t keep him in enough of a spotlight, I imagine he will turn his attention to claiming that Bush and his flunky Brown actually dynamited the levees in New Orleans!!! That’s all fine as long as he leaves those of us concerned with the Kennedy assassination immune to his tirades. All Fetzer’s tirades do is make it more difficult for the rest of us to get out the real truth concerning this incompetent national administration.

Please let me know if you have additional questions. I have not yet been able to figure out how to read your reconstruction of the event, something I would be very keen to do.

Josiah Thompson

Even the most casual reader can discern who is awash in vitriol... Fetzer or me.

When Fetzer cannot win an argument on the merits, he attacks the motives and character of those who disagree with him. The bare facts are that after ten years of trying to impugn the authenticity of the Zapruder film and other films taken in Dealey Plaza, Fetzer has failed. Having failed he has to impugn my character by publishing faded speculation by Vince Salandria from 40 years ago. All this is no more believable now than it was 40 years ago. When he cannot handle the scrupulous dismembering of his actual arguments, he claims that I have illegitimate motives in defending the authenticity of the film.... that I based my forty-year-old book on it and therefore defend the film now. My old book was based upon a review of all the evidence then available including much photo evidence from Dealey Plaza which I discovered in the Archives. I defend the authenticity of the Zapruder film not to defend my old book but because the film is authentic and Fetzer's arguments to impugn its authenticity become sillier the longer he keeps at it. It's simply a question of intellectual integrity, a quality one would think a professor of philosophy would value.

In discussing the Wellstone crash above in this thread, Fetzer says that while a midshipman he "piloted a jet" aircraft and hence has a knowledge of aviation. The reality is that a real pilot took him up in a jet for an exhibition flight while Fetzer was in college. Fetzer never "piloted a jet" and his claim that he did shows how truly looney-tunes he has become.

He fled another site set up to discuss the Wellstone crash and here, as usual, he means to substitute vitriol and an attempt at character assassination for argument.

I'm going on vacation. Professor Fetzer can remain stewing in his juices!!

Hello Mr. Carroll,

No, I wasn't aware of this. I used the link you were kind enough to provide and looked at the GIF. The location indicated by the arrow is considerably south of the location where the odd shape appears in the Moorman photo. Alas, I'm leaving tomorrow on vacation so I won't have a chance to look into this more exactly. Thanks very much for calling my attention to it.

Hi Len,

My daughter, Lis Thompson, was born in July 1964 and graduated from Oberlin after four years there. You must have been there at the same time? Did you know each other?

Tink

What an incredible career!

I remember studying Kierkegaard in philosophy class in my freshman year in college (copincidentally the year your first book was published).

But why should "Gumshoe" be your final book?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks so much for the welcome, Tim. Why nothing since "Gumshoe"? Two reasons: (1) I didn't have anything to say. (2) I've been working too hard making a living. I'm off for a couple of weeks hiking in Wyoming. After that's done I look forward to joining in some of the discussions which I've already sampled. They're really excellent. Thanks again.

Since Professor Fetzer has been kind enough to bring to your attention my review of his latest book I will let the reader determine to what the phrase "intellectual rubbish" should apply. My replies to Professor Fetzer are in caps.

Intellectual rubbish about AMERICAN ASSASSINATION posted on amazon.com.

Compare what he says here with the contents of the book and with information

that can be found at the sources cited above or at assassinationscience.com.

My comments appear here [between the brackets]. This is a good example of

a hatchet job whose misguided author has no respect for logic or for evidence

by authoring a review that trades upon the ignorance and gullibility of readers.

Josiah Thompson (Bolinas, California USA)

American Assassination: The Strange Death Of Senator Paul Wellstone by Four

Arrows and Jim Fetzer

Edition: Paperback

Price: $11.20

Availability: Usually ships in 24 hours

15 used from $9.05

2 of 13 people found the following review helpful:

More tabloid nonsense from Fetzer and friend.., August 5, 2005

The two co-authors parade their Ph.D.s in philosophy and education to make you

believe they are serious analysts. They aren't. Neither has ever piloted an

aircraft and their analysis shows that they know butkus about aviation.

[Four Arrows holds both a Ph.D. and an Ed.D. and has authored about a dozen

more books that Josiah Thompson, who is making a career of trashing books

that I have edited. (See his other reviews on amazon.com.) I piloted a jet as

a midshipman while I was in college. [FETZER NEVER "PILOTED A JET" IN HIS LIFE. THIS IS HILARIOUS! DURING NROTC SUMMER CAMP, HE WAS TAKEN UP IN A JET BY A REAL PILOT. FORTY YEARS LATER HE ATTEMPTS TO USE THIS SPUN FACT TO PERSUADE US THAT HE KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT AVIATION. HE DOESN'T AND HIS BOOK DEMONSTRATES THIS.] There is ample evidence of knowledge of aviation and expert contributions distributed throughout our research. This is an example of the genetic fallacy. Would an author have to have committed murder to write about it? Read the book and you will see the distortion in this passage.] [iF YOU ARE WRITING A BOOK ON THE CHERNOBYL DISASTER IT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT HOW NUCLEAR REACTORS ARE BUILT AND IN PARTICULAR HOW THE CHERNOBYL REACTOR WAS BUILT. NO??]

ITEM: Fetzer claims it is a sinister fact that communication with the Wellstone

plane was suddenly lost. It wasn't. During its approach, the Wellstone plane

made all its expected communications checks. There never was any interruption in

communication with the plane.

[There was no distress call, even though the plane--whose passengers included

a US Senator, his wife and daughter, and three aides--was going down in a

remote, swampy area where the rapid arrival of first responders might make

the difference between life and death. There were two pilots. He is committing

a fallacy of equivocation by playing with words. That the copilot, who had handled

most of the communications, did not send a distress call suggests he sent no call

because communications were disabled and he was unable to send out a call.] [COMMUNICATION WAS NOT "SUDDENLY INTERRUPTED" BECAUSE NO COMMUNICATION WITH THE AIRCRAFT WAS IN PROGRESS OR EXPECTED. THE FACT THAT NO DISTRESS CALL WAS SENT OUT DOES NOT MEAN THAT COMMUNICATIONS WERE "DISABLED" OR THAT THE PILOTS WERE "UNABLE" TO SEND OUT A CALL. HAVING COME OUT OF THE OVERCAST LOW AND SLOW, THE PILOTS WERE TOO BUSY TRYING TO SAVE THEIR LIVES TO SEND OUT A DISTRESS CALL. IF FETZER KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT STATISTICS REGARDING SMALL PLANE CRASHES, HE WOULD KNOW THAT NO DISTRESS CALLS ARE MADE IN 70% OF THE CASES. BUT HE DOESN'T, SO HE MAKES UP HIS OWN INTERPRETATIONS.]

ITEM: Fetzer claims it is a sinister fact that the plane's propellers were found

to be not giving much thrust to the aircraft at the time of the crash. He's

right about the propellers not providing much thrust but wrong about this fact

being in any way sinister. The NTSB studied the propellers and found they were

in the "flight idle position" at the time of the crash. This setting would not

provide much thrust since the pilots in their approach were reducing their

airspeed in advance of landing. It was the proper and normal setting for

propellers in an approach.

[This is a nice example of "spinning" by trying to turn vice into virtue. Since

the plane was in distress, the pilots would be expected to "power up" and get out

of trouble, which is exactly what happened during the NTSB's own simulations.

They were unable to bring the plane down, even when it was flown abnormally

slowly. They were not landing. The field was miles to the north from where they

were. This remark displays either massive ignorance or deliberate deception.] [THE PLANE WAS IN ITS APPROACH PATTERN TO LAND AT EVELETH. IT WAS LANDING! FETZER CAN SAY ANYTHING HE WANTS BUT FACTS ARE FACTS.]

ITEM: Fetzer claims that FBI agents from Minneapolis got to the crash site too

early and hence must have had foreknowledge of the impending accident. The

agents weren't from Minneapolis. They were field agents from the area ordered

into the crash site by radio when it happened.

[Rick Wahlberg, the Sheriff of St. Louis County, reported that he had arrived at

the airport at 1:30 PM and saw agents he knew personally from the St. Paul FBI

"rapid response team". Gary Ulman, the airport assistant manager, confirmed to

me that they had been there at least since 1 PM. Paul McCable, the spokesman

for the FBI, said they had not arrived before 3:30 PM, contradicting both Wahlberg

and Ulman. These agents were not in the area at the time, as Christopher Bollyn

of amercianfreepress.com confirmed at the time. Thompson is making all this up.][FETZER IS NOT MAKING THIS UP. HE IS SIMPLY PUTTING TOGETHER CONFUSING EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY WITH MISTAKEN REPORTS FROM THE ALTERNATIVE MEDIA. THE TRUTH IS THAT TWO FIELD AGENTS FROM THE EVELETH-BEMIDJI REGION WERE CONTACTED BY RADIO AND DIRECTED TO THE CRASH SITE. THEY ARRIVED FIRST. ONLY MUCH LATER DID AGENTS FROM MINNEAPOLIS-ST. PAUL GET THERE. FACTS ARE JUST FACTS AND FETZER CANNOT CHANGE THEM.]

ITEM: Fetzer claims that a secret electromagnetic pulse weapon downed the plane.

He claims to know this because a cell phone in the area malfunctioned at about

the time of the crash! First, no such weapon is known to exist. Second, the guy

whose cell phone malfunctioned was named John Ongaro. Back in June 2003, Kevin

Diaz, a reporter for the Minneapolis Star Tribune, found Ongaro and talked to

him. Diaz wrote on 6/3/03: "Ongaro, who was near the airport when Wellstone's

plane went down, has dismissed the significance of his experience, in which he

said his cell phone made 'strange sounds and then disconnected. It's not unusual

for cell phones, especially in northern Minnesota,' he said."

[There are lots of reports about RF, EM, and HERF weaponry, so Thomson has to

be "pulling our leg". Truly disgusting. Just go onto google and you can find lots

of information about them. [bY THE SAME TOKEN, YOU CAN FIND MUCH THE SAME SORT OF THING BY ENTERING GOOGLE WITH "LOCH NESS MONSTER." FETZER CANNOT CITE EVEN ONE ARTICLE ANYWHERE WHICH DEMONSTRATES THE ACTUAL EXISTENCE OF THE KIND OF WEAPON HE'S TALKING ABOUT.] An expert on EM, who holds a Ph.D. in physics with a specialty in electromagnetism, contributed a section about them to the book. [THIS IS FETZER PAL AND AUSTRALIAN HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER, JOHN COSTELLA. TWO YEARS AGO, COSTELLA MISTOOK THE RAIN SENSORS WHICH CONTROL THE SPRINKLERS IN DEALEY PLAZA FOR "LISTENING DEVICES" PLACED THERE BY INTELLIGENCE SERVICES. ENOUGH SAID?!] Apparently Thompson thinks he possesses more knowledge than experts in the field. They can take out all computerized components, including stall warning systems, the course deviation indicator and communications, as well as disabling electrical components, such as the electrical switches that control the pitch of the props. The fire burned bluish-white rather than sooty-black, which indicates that it was electrical in origin. The fire department could not put it out, but the NTSB says nothing to explain it. The use of a weapon of this kind would explain the loss of communications and the loss of control, the smoke and the fire, and a number of other oddities about the crash, including the odd cell phone anomaly that John Ongaro experienced en route to the funeral that was bringing Wellstone into the area. While Ongaro did later seek to minimize the significance of his experience, he was quite alarmed about it at the time and strongly believed it could be connected to the crash. We all know witnesses can be pressured into changing their mind. Read the book for the emails he sent to me at the time, here his words contradict Thompson's account. This guy is counting on a naive audience to simply accept his review and not compare it to the book's contents.] [sO ONGARO IS PRESSURED INTO CHANGING HIS STORY? THE MALFUNCTION OF A CELL PHONE PROVES NOTHING ANYWAY. ALL THE REST OF THESE CLAIMS HAVE BEEN DISPROVEN BUT FETZER, LIKE THE ENERGIZER BUNNY, KEEPS MAKING THEM.]

The list of factual mistakes could be virtually infinitely expanded. These two

show about as much care in their research as a pair of reporters for the

National Enquirer writing about three-headed twins! They take advantage of the

fact that no one is going to take the trouble to look at the carefully

researched and documented NTSB report on the crash. That report shows in

exquisite detail that the crash was caused by the airplane getting ahead of two

flaky pilots. As another reviewer of this book has mentioned, the radar track of

the plane shows that it dropped out of the overcast low and slow and slightly

off course. In trying to remedy these problems, the air crew got behind on what

was happening and the plane stalled out at too low an altitude to recover. No

sinister elements in all of this. Just ineptitude.

[The plane was exceptional, the weather was fine, and the pilots were well-

qualified. Richard Conry, the primary pilot, had 5,200 hours of experience

and an Air Transport Pilot's rating, the highest commercial rating. PLUS he

had passed his FAA flight check just two days before the fatal flight. By the

government's own standards, he was highly qualified to fly this plane. Even

the NTSB's own simulation evidence contradicted its own findings. A member

of the NTSB team, Richard Healing, who signed the report, admitted that they

had no idea what had happened and were merely "speculating". The NTSB is

not permitted to investigate a crash scene as a "crime scene" unless the US

Attorney General declares it to be the scene of a crime. That was not done

in this case. Anyone who wants to know the skinny about Wellstone has to

go beyond hatchet-job reviews by hack writers to the serious and informed

studies of the case, including the book but also more recent work that may

be found at http://www.assassinationscience.com and links given above.] [JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING IN THIS PARAGRAPH HAS ALREADY BEEN PROVEN FALSE IN EXTENDED DEBATE WITH FETZER ON A YAHOO BOARD CALLED "FETZERclaimsDEBUNK" WHOSE URL IS: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FETZERclaimsDEBUNK/messages>. MY FINAL COMMENT: "THE LIST OF FACTUAL MISTAKES COULD BE VIRTUALLY INFINITELY EXPANDED. THESE TWO SHOW ABOUT AS MUCH CARE IN THEIR RESEARCH AS A PAIR OF REPORTERS FOR THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER WRITING ABOUT THREE-HEADED TWINS! THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT NO ONE IS GOINT TO TAKE THE TROUBLE TO LOOK AT THE CAREFULLY RESEARCHED AND DOCUMENTED NTSB REPORT ON THE CRASH"

New research on the death of Paul Wellstone:

It was a pleasure to appear on The Mike Malloy Show on airamericaradio.com for an interview about the death of Senator Paul Wellstone. The interview was archived and can be found by scrolling down to Friday, 12 August 2005:

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/Malloy.html

Additional new evidence about the case has appeared in an article co-authored with John P. Costella, Ph.D., "The NTSB Failed Wellstone", published in fromthewilderness.com on 6 July 2005 and subsequently in FROM THE WILDER-

NESS (31 July 2005), pp. 15-22. It has now become available on line at the following link:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/...wellstone.shtml

Paul Wellstone, the son of Russian-Jewish immigrants, was born in Washington, on 21st July, 1944. After high school he attended the University of North Carolina, where he obtained a BA (1965) and a doctorate in political science (1969). As a student he was active in the anti-Vietnam War campaign.

Wellstone taught at Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota, for twenty-five years. He was also director of the Minnesota Community Energy Program.

A member of the Democratic Party, Wellstone helped organize support for Jessie Jackson during his unsuccessful presidential bid in 1988. He remained active in politics and in 1990 Wellstone defeated the Republican Rudy Boschwitz to win a seat in the Senate. In 1996 he beat Boschwitz by a larger margin.

Wellstone developed a reputation as the most left-wing member of the Senate. He supported gun control, abortion rights and was a strong opponent of military intervention in Iraq.

Paul Wellstone died in a plane crash d on 25th October, 2002 during an election campaign. His wife of nearly 40 years, Shelia Ison, and their 33-year-old daughter Marcia, also died in the accident. Wellstone's replacement, Walter Mondale, was defeated by the Republican, Norm Coleman, in the November, 2002 Senate election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I graduated from Yale in 1957, served in Underwater Demolition Team 21 and then returned to Yale for graduate work in philosophy. I got my MA in 1962 and Ph.D. in 1964 and then was hired by the Philosophy Department. I moved on to Haverford College where I went from Assistant Professor of Philosophy to Associate Professor to Professor of Philosophy during the years 1965 through 1976. During this period, I wrote two books on the Danish philosopher Soren Kierkegaard ["The Lonely Labyrinth" (1967: Southern Illinois University Press) and "Kierkegaard" (1973: Alfred Knopf)] and one on the Kennedy assassination ["Six Seconds in Dallas" (1967: Bernard Geis Associates/Random House)]. In 1978, I quit my job at Haverford as Professor of Philosophy and became a licensed private investigator in San Francisco. This change was described in a final book, "Gumshoe" (1988: Little, Brown & Co.).