Juan Carlos

As regards European Union history, you have an extended summary of the European integration process up to Nice treaty onhttp://www.historiasiglo20.org/europe/index.htm

You can find a series of biographies, some of them related to the afterwar period, on

http://www.historiasiglo20.org/pioneers/index.htm

There you will find a webquest on Jean Monnet and European history http://www.historiasiglo20.org/pioneers/webquest.htm

As far as Spain's history is concerned, I would stress these points:

1. A particular case: a fascist regime who was "saved" by the Cold War. American support to Franco culminated in Eisenhower's hugging Franco in a visit to Madrid in 1959

2. A country which went from the "hunger years" after the Civil War to a quick process of social and economical modernisation during the sixties. After that, Francoism was impossible without Franco.

3. When the dictator died in 1975, Spain started an amazing process of political transition from one of the toughest and oldest dictatorships in Europe to a democratic system. This process culminated with the landslide victory of Socialist Party in 1982

4. Last eight years (Aznar's years) were characterized by an important economical development which contrasts with core European countries sluggish economy and by a dramatic change in our foreign policy. Aznar was a staunch supporter of Bush's foreign policy. 11-M bombing in Madrid put a dramatic end to this period.

You can have a glance at this collection of links on Spain's history

http://www.historiasiglo20.org/enlaces/espana.htm Yet, most of them lead to Spanish web sites. There are quite a few in English.

Although John Kerry claimed that Spain should not withdraw its troops from Irak, probably he said it without meaning it.

Zapatero's pledge of pulling out the scant 1.300 Spanish troops of Irak is not important by itself, but it can create a general trend that let the governments reconsider, think again all the Irak mess.

I watched on TV this afternon the 9/11 Commission audience and I have been reading reports on it yesterday. It seems to me that, even among Washington officials, there is a sort of attempt of rethink the American foreign policy carried out last years by Mr. Bush's administration.

Will European governments be able to gather efforts to propose a new policy to Washington? It is evident that Spain by her own has not weight enough to cause any change, but what about an arranged diplomatic action to help and force Washington to change its policy, even before next elections?

What about the EU foreign policy? We badly need it.

Mr. Aznar and PP's policy during the last two years has been a strange sort of mixture:

A dogged and obstinate assertion of "principles" that reminds of the American Christian right

A continuous manipulation of media that inmediately reminds us of his close friend Mr. Berlusconi

At the end, this mixture was fatal to him. He lost the polls because of forcing Spain into a war that was rejected by 90% of the population and because of his pathetic attempt to mislead the public opinion

Mr. Zapatero pledged to withdraw Spanish troops from Irak unless a UN mandate legitimate its stay there. It is necessary to highlight that this position was not a consequence of the 11-M atrocities.

I, particularly, think that pure and simply pulling out the scant twelve hundred troops of Irak would be an erroneous move. I believe that is the moment for European countries to pool efforts to try to bring back Irak occupation to a multilateral and UN based framework.

Do you think that Mr. Blair will be helpful with this effort? Or, rather, will he stick to Mr. Bush, Ms. Rice, Mr. Wolfowitz, Cheney, Perle... position?

It is evident that the massacre brought about a dramatic change of Spanish public opinion. Although Mr. Zapatero was slowly but firmly catching up with PP's candidate in all the polls, it was widely acepted that PP was going to wint the election.

The bombing put back on stage the Irak's war. About 90% of Spanish people was against the US intervention and most of the people considered US handling of the after-war as an utter wash-out.

However, Mr. Rajoy, PP's candidate, had got to keep the subject apart from the political debate. Spain has had a good economic performance last years and ETA's terrorism had been reduced dramatically.

I think that, apart from the horrible shock that Spanish people suffered, there was a factor that moved a lot of people to vote the Socialists: the blatant attempt of manipulating the information and misguiding the public carried out by the government. There was a general feeling that the goverment was holding back information.

By the way, the demonstrations at the gates of PP's office in Madrid and other towns last Saturday were summoned via text messages on the mobile phones. TIC help people to fight against government manipulation.

After the massacre... the vultures.

I write from a mourning Madrid that has suffered the worst bombing after Franco's troops attacked it in 1936.

200 persons from 12 nationalities have been killed in a horrible way.

Europe is facing its September 11th... and we, as Europeans, have to try to give a rational, democratic and resolute answer... A lot of questions to discuss about... I have to recognize that I have a lot of doubts.

But, let me point at some posts that I would qualify as disgusting:

The bombings will benefit the right more than anyone else. They will be used as an excuse (as if they ever needed one!) to oppress the Basque people.

The only oppression here in Spain is the one that is suffered by the hundreds of people killed by ETA, and the thousands of people in the Basque Country threatened and blackmailed on a daily basis by ETA and all their mafia-like collaborating networks.

Probably, you will distinguish between terrorist groups as Al-Qaeda and charities as ETA. Disgusting.

To the point that I, still a French citizen, am considering voting for Jean-Marie Le Pen... He is the only polician that makes sense on the issues...

Please, do not use the massacre of 200 working people in Madrid (almost 25% of them inmigrants themselves) as an alibi for supporting a "soft" nazi as Le Pen. Disgusting.

A couple of final comments:

Aznar government's pathetic attempt of manipulating information insisting in blaming ETA instead of Al-Qaeda has failed inmediately. Aznar simply tried to hold back information a couple of days so as to win the election... What a sad end for this brave and corageous staunch ally of Bush and Blair!

The Basque president Ibarreche (yes, Basque country has the widest autonomy in Europe and it is been governed by PNV -Basque Nationalist Party- for 25 years) claimed that the terrorists (he assumed as most of the Spaniards just after the bombing that ETA was responsible of the atrocity) ... were not Basques. As for the Basque nationalists the almost 50% of Basque people that vote, election after election, to Spanish parties are not "genuine" Basques. I wonder, who on the hell are Basques?

Nationalism.... disgusting.

Here http://www.historiasiglo20.org/aviation/index.htm you can find my first contribution to the Aviation Project.

Richard,

Are the students receiving any sort of username and password?As far as I know they have not received any. Otherwise, do they have to log in using my username or password? I suppose not.

present conflicts : it is nearly impossible to set a quiet discussion on Middle East issues on this forum (...) In such a case, a very strong political will is necessary. Adenauer and Schumann, Adenauer and de Gaulle are good examples.

Daniel,

This is the sort of situation where history teachers are more necessary.

I think that after, let's say a generation, teaching a type of nationalistic history a whole generation is seriously influenced by these ideas.

I know that probably this task will be impossible to implement in a Gaza or Tel Aviv school. I am thinking about Western Europe and Catalonia, Ireland, Corse, Flanders, Germany, Spain and so on.

I consider that the idea of writing a European text book which tried to uncover and denounce the most important lies of nationalistic histories would be one of the most interesting outcomes of international cooperation between history teachers.

It is excellent to discuss with Chilean students in Stockholm. Probably, these American people will give us a fresh perspective about European integration. I know that at Richard's school are teachers that will be able to moderate the debate in Spanish. Núria, Spanish representative in Spring 2004, woul be an excellente moderator as well.

Any way, Richard is the boss. So, let's wait for orders

Juan-Carlos Ocaña's students have also been registered but I am uncertain about the Sr/Mr Ocaña bit. 

Mr. is OK. In Spanish schools we tend to use less and less Sr. (Señor) before family names. It sounds as very formal. Is it a reminiscense of our anarchist tradition? At my school, I would be known as Juan Carlos. That's all.

Richard wrote:

If you are ready to participate in the trial, send me the following details via email:

Full student name

Student email address

School name

I think we will be ready to make a start early next week. Monday even... 

The first 'warm-up' topic matters less. How about some general educational/schooling issues?

What makes a good/bad teacher?! 

Is school relevant?

Should we abolish exams?

etc. etc. We can make them up as we go along...

My school is IES PARQUE DE LISBOA - Alcorcón (Madrid)

Full student name

Marcos Iglesias

Luis Mateos

E-mail addresses

I cannot send them to you right now. I already forwarded them to John and Richard. I will try to e-mail them tomorrow morning.

I consider that starting up with this sort of educational and a bit funny issues as What makes a good/bad teacher?! is an excellent idea. Quite better than beginning with a very serious question. If things go well, we can introduce more historical and serious debates.

This is the Georg Eckert Institute URL http://www.gei.de/english/index1.shtml

It is an excellent site and shows the way that German historians are trying to deal with a conflictive and bloody past in Europe.

It would be an excellent idea if somebody of the Institut could contribute to this forum and tell us about their work.

Ulrike, could you get in touch with them?

Richard,

Did you receive my e-mail with my two students' names and e-mails addresses? I am having lately serious problems with my e-mail and I don't know if you receive them.

I assume that the best would be starting up the debate in a Mediterranean way. I mean, offering two or three topics and wait and see. I don't think that planning in advance too much is a good idea.

I think that for the students would be very interesting to post a profile and photograph.

I have to confess that I can hardly look at this photograph.

I had a Polish friend that told me that in his family WWII was a forbidden subject. Their parents never talk about it. They couldn't stand it.

Some of my relatives that remained long periods, 8 or 10 years, in Franco's jails didn't talk about war an prison yet.

The closer you are to horror the less you want to talk about it.

Nuria, me refiero a que se publicite en web oficial de Spring 2004 y en la tuya. También podría incluirlo en mi web y alguna otra.

Pienso que debemos aprovecharnos de que Richar Jones-Nerzic, que tiene experiencia de haberlo montado el año pasado, se ha ofrecido a coordinar y administrar un foro tambièn en castellano. Así se reforzaría la dimensión internacional de Spring.

Puedes verlo aquí http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=115

Do you think your system is more democratic that that of Britain and the United States? Is proportional representation a better system than the first past the post system? What about those emerging democracies in Eastern Europe? What system of electing politicians are you adopting?

In my view answering a so big question: Do we live in democracy? is a rather philosophical debate that probably will lead us to nowhere.

I'd rather opt for more concrete questions as those refered to electoral system. In Spain we have a sort of "corrected" proportional system that finally products two big parties (Partido Popular - Partido Socialista Obrero Español) and a series of smaller parties that ranks from former Communists (Izquierda Unida) to nationalist parties (Partido Nacionalista Vasco or Convergencia i Unió).

Is a proportional system better than the British first-past-the-post? I would say so, but, suddenly, Italian political system from 1945 to last decade came to my mind.

A very fractioned Parliament with a lot of parties whose elites negotiate and negotiate coalition governments. It was the time of Andreotti, Craxi... Well, I am not so sure. Proportional system reflects better the public opinion but permit the politicians to arrange coalitions that most usually have nothing to do with common interest.

I think that Dalibor has put forward a very interesting point. Which is the idea of Europeans nations that a regular student gets from his history textbook? Which is the "role" that each country plays in this historical theatre?

It is evident that each country has played a role and that, for example, Spain dissapears from a main role in history after, let's say, Westfalia Peace, and only reappears sadly in the Spanish Civil War?

Sadly enough, Sweden has no role in a Spanish history book. I wonder if it is more important to learn about the phases of Italian unification (I hope there is no Italian teacher on line ) or study the construction of the Swedish welfare state. I am sure that the second would be quite more interesting for every European student nowadays. They might link the knowledge they would get in that lesson with the current problems of their societies.

Probaly, it would be very interesting to try to build up a new European curriculum.

Me parece una excelente idea para desarrollar un debate on-line. La International School of Toulouse tiene experiencia en coordinar y realizar este tipo de actividades.

Nuria (Salvador), ¿te parece de interés que se publique en la web de Spring o en la tuya? La cuestión sería tratar de encontrar un número no demasiado amplio de centros que participara en castellano e intentar que los alumnos utilizaran también el inglés o el francés.

Gracias Nuria (Cogollos). Es excelente tener una profesora española en Toulouse dispuesta a colaborar en el Spring español.

Hi Nuria and Richard,

So we will try to set up a multilingual debate. Probably I can try to convince a French teacher at my school to join the debate. Richard, once again you are the boss so, please, let us know the steps we should take.

Dalibor,

I am trying to do something similar to what you have done. I am gathering Spanish web sites dealing with history of aviation.

On top of that, I have been collaborating with an Economics teacher at my school and we have already on line a Flash Animation on Chronology of Aviation. Cien años de la aviación 1903-2003

Hopefully, my page will be on line at the end of February.

John,

It seems to me very interesting this Robert Tressell's document, written just before Wrights' fly.

I would be very interested in this debate. But, unfortunately, this year I do not teach the students whose curriculum treat in-depth the European Union. I will try to convince my colleague to take part in the discussion.

Is there any possibility of opening up a debate in Spanish? Núria Salvador, my last year colleague in the Spanish team in Spring, is trying to start up a topic in this forum for Spanish teachers involved in Spring.

Richard, I suppose you have work enough. I suggest this possibility just in case it does not mean additional work.

The way Winston Churchill is seen today is the result of nationalistic history teaching. He is seen as the man who led us to a courageous victory. That without him, the British people would have defeated and occupied by the German army. This is of course a complete distortion of the past. (...) In fact, Clement Attlee, won a landslide victory and went on to introduce important reforms that are now still popular with the British people. However, Attlee never featured in the poll of greatest Britons. The reason for this has a lot to do with the way we teach history.

John shows us an excellent example about nationalistic history. I suppose that if I my students are asked to write a famous Briton in 20th century (apart from David Beckham ) , they will reply: Winston Churchill. Only the best students will have any idea about Atlee and the welfare state in Britain.

The idea of an international curriculum is really very fascinating but also very difficult.

Ulrike, probably the best would be start spottin "Winston Churchills" in our national histories and teach our students about events and personalities that don't fit any national official history.

patriotism/nationalism/chauvinism

Honestly, I cannot make out the frontiers between these concepts.

The EU with all its shortcomings seems to enhance this process: older; pre-nation-state ties such as language, history, identiy seem to be growing stronger.

Ulrike, this an interesting process that we can observe all over Europe: Scotland, Wales, Catalonia, Flanders, Basque Country... These nations or regions have a "historical background", at least, they have a different language, even if it is spoke by quite a few of these citizens. But, what about Padania? What about Humberto Bossi?

I think that disguised under "historical reasons", in a lot of cases (Catalonia, Basque Country, Flanders...) there is very clear attitude: the rich neighbour don't want to contribute money for the poor one. They don't need to live in the block of apartments anymore.

You are right to stress that nationalism does unify a country. This is especially true when you are in conflict with another country. I have spent a lot of time interviewing senior citizens about their experiences of the Second World War. I always ask them if there was anything good about the war. They always give a similar answer. This involves the belief that the war united the country.

John, from the British point of view in WWII, from the "right side" point of view, this unification is evidently something positive. All Europe benefitted from that British people unity and fight. But, you can say the same for the Germans during the WWII. Did this sort of unity by fighting a war occurred? I am afraid that probably the answer is yes. Undoubtedly, Bismarck's victorious wars forged and enhanced German sense of unity.

A recent case is American wars on Afghanistan and Irak. Patriotism is on the rise in the USA.

I can understand this feeling, but I don't dare to say that is positive.

From my experience collaborating with and visiting to German schools in Rhineland and Baden-Würtemberg, I think that German people has been quite more successful in their dealing with their Nazi past than, for example, Italians and Spanish dealing with Mussolini and Franco's dictatorships. Of course, there are evident reasons for this fact: Italy didn't undergo any sort of "defascistization" (does it make sense in English?) and Franco died quietly (and very, very late) in his bed in 1975.

This is a serious drawback for both Mediterranean countries and the lack of a serious settling with their past is a burden for their political systems (just have a glance at some of Mr. Berlusconi and their former fascist allies attitudes and Mr. Aznar's, whose party recently rejected to condemn Franco's uprising in the Spanish parliament).

Sometimes, I think that, despite some neo-nazi movements, Germany is one of the European countries more committed agains totalitarism in Europe.

I was never convinced that the formation of the EU was a sign of a move towards internationalism. In fact, I believe it made the situation worse. The EU was for many years no more than an economic extension of Nato. It divided Europe rather than uniting it.

I agree with John that the EU was a sort of economic branch of NATO. In this sense there is an interesting article "La CIA finance la construction européenne" in French that highlights the importance of the American influence in the birth of the EEC.

But I cannot agree with him in claiming that EEC divided Europe. It could not do anything to join it during the Cold War and, after the fall of Communism in Central and Eastern Europe, the EU has launched a very complicated and risky process of enlargement that will bring in a lot of old European nations.

I am not gullible about the reasons of this enlargement. I perfectly know that behind this process there are not only open-handed purposes, I know that the EU was perfectly unable to stop the Balkans tragedy in the nineties, but, as a whole, the Union is and, I hope, will be in the future a positive factor against nationalism.

I am an optimistic by nature and I think that if we compare Neville Chamberlain's position about Czech people in the thirties and the current EU policy regarding Eastern Europe, we all have reasons to be a bit, just a bit, confident about EU role in the future.

As I am writing that, a lot of contradictory statements come to my mind. But, well, let be optimistic tonight.