Myra Bronstein

John, If you decide to pull the plug on the forum I hope you will, as requested upstream: 1-Leave the JFK assassination material and the Spartacus material up for reference. And: 2-Please, *please* do not pull the plug until the 50th anniversary of the murder is well past. The 50th anniversary is a rare opportunity to get more people interested. And there will be, already are, many "revelations" emerging in the next year that will require discussion/exposure. I hope you welcome Jim back. (I have my own bias and don't care about the other guy. I supposed I should be honorable and support equitable treatment of both, but I really don't want that other guy back. Bad moderators are way worse than over-emotional members. And moderators should be held to a higher standard. There, I've rationalized.) Jim's perspective and depth of knowledge on JFK is valuable and I don't want his voice stilled here. Also, as others have pointed out, the murder of JFK and the impact on the world is hugely emotional for sincere individuals who value the truth. They (we) are only human and lose our cool on occasion. I think Jim is in this category. And finally, while personal attacks have been against the rules for a while, enforcement of that rule has been inconsistent. Lack of rule enforcement is akin to lack of rule. I'd like to see Jim as an active member here. Thanks for the JFK forum John, and for this thread.

Exactly. I've long thought that the Kennedy enemies tried to frame them with the Monroe murder. Then when that failed they took the next step. Much like they later framed Teddy Kennedy with the Chappaquiddick arranged accident to neutralize him. Does anyone know anything about this Fred Otash character? Whatever his story is I don't think it's a coincidence that we're in the run up to a major JFK anniversary and this propaganda is launched at the public.

Salon.com is getting bold. The authors of this article, Mark Ames and Alexander Zaitchik, are knowledgeable and blunt. http://www.salon.com/2012/12/02/better_than_bourne_who_really_killed_nick_deak/?source=newsletter Good insights into MK-ULTRA, Manchurian candidates, esp. Excerpts: "...Arkadi Kuhlmann has long scoffed at the court’s conclusion. Kuhlmann, then 35 and newly in charge of Deak-Perera’s Canadian operations, became CEO after Deak’s death. Like his Deak-Perera colleagues, he understood that many criminal account holders had lost millions when the firm went bankrupt in 1984. Deak’s subsequent murder, he felt, was no coincidence. “I never believed that the whole thing was random,” said Kuhlmann, in an interview with Salon. Ditto the government inquiry that triggered the collapse preceding Lang’s rampage. “We were the CIA’s paymaster, and that got to be a little bit embarrassing for them,” he said. “Our time had passed and the usefulness of doing things our way had vanished. The world was changing in the ’80s; you couldn’t just accept bags of cash. Deak was slow at making those changes. And when you lose your sponsorship, you’re out of the game. ... Deak was a unique talent at a unique time in American history. With Europe in ruins, the country emerged from the war as a true global power in need of imperial know-how. Within the ranks of the OSS, Deak stood out. The blue-blood Yalies that dominated the agency had little experience in global affairs and even less in global finance. And so they turned to the cosmopolitan half-Jewish foreigner to help move the nascent empire’s money around the strategic chessboard. ... But the company’s most important client was always the CIA. From its founding until the late 1970s, Deak’s firm was a key financial arm of the U.S. intelligence complex. Because it carried out the foreign-currency transactions of private entities, Deak and Co. could keep track of who was spiriting money into and out of which countries. ... “I never bought the operetta story of a crazy woman shooting the elephant hunter point-blank in his own office,” said Antal Fekete, a Canadian economist who met Deak while teaching at Princeton in the 1970s. “I often think that the producers at the CIA should pick a more credible scenario when they plot the elimination of some of their former employees who babble too much.” ... In other words, the doctor who cared for Lang in Santa Clara was a senior figure at one of the CIA’s top institutional grantees. He worked side-by-side with a self-identified CIA collaborator, and conducted research into the kind of drug-induced behavior modification that the agency is known to have funded."

Thanks Steve. Just a suggestion to everyone (or US everyones): contact Nook customer support and ask that they start carrying "JFK and the Unspeakable." bnmanagementclassic@book.com support@book.com 1.800.843.2665

Nook/Barnes and Noble does not have "JFK and the Unspeakable" as an ebook. Very annoying. Kindle/Amazon does have "JFK and the Unspeakable" for download. Both Nook and Kindle have "Last Word" for their ebooks. Has anyone looked into it more thoroughly?

Very powerful. Odd that the CNN article never mentions Noguchi and his conclusion.

As you've pointed out, according to his biography he was on vacation in Michigan (I think with his in-laws). One reason he might go to a Canadian air base while on vacation is that it would be a lot easier to catch a plane there, in case something "unusual" were to happen that day, than from wherever he was staying in Michigan. I don't believe he was in Michigan. I believe the Andrews Log and AF1 tape that he was at the Canadian Air Base - and the Michigan story is bogus. BK JFKcountercoup The Michigan alibi. Alibi. Thanks for the details BK and Ron. Any idea where Navy Secretary Paul B. Fay was during the autopsy? Apparently he was an ally of President Kennedy so I can't imagine LeMay and his cronies wanted Fay at Bethesda. If Fay and LeMay were both there giving conflicting orders, I'd think the doctors at Bethesda would have to follow orders from Fay. I haven't read Fay's book "The Pleasure of His Company." I wonder if he says in there where he was during the autopsy.

What was the alleged reason LeMay was at an air base in Canada? Also, do you recall where you learned that?

I see, thank you. Did DDE point the finger in a letter to his brother? He was quite blunt in those letters.

Oh gads, I read "Brothers" and I don't even remember that part. Ok, thank you. I don't think it's an either/or scenario between the Cuban Exile involvement and the JBS/racist involvement. It was a big tent assassination. I think the JBS was higher up the planning chain though. And the Cubans were manipulated into believing that an overthrow of Castro would follow an overthrow of Kennedy.

I really don't think there's much credibility to the theory that President Kennedy was planning to assassinate Castro. Especially given the fact that Lisa Howard was serving as the conduit for negotiations between Castro and JFK. The Kennedy administration may have been keeping every iron in the fire just in case, but I doubt that murdering Castro was the serious option that "Ultimate Sacrifice" made it out to be. What is the second book that you referred to?

Do you think that the John Birch Society was not involved in President Kennedy's murder? Or do you think that they were involved, but their level of involvement has been exaggerated?

Before Ted Kennedy's book came out there were all sorts of erroneous reports about the contents. So I'll wait for the real thing. Though I don't believe any part of the mainstream media would cooperate if any actual light were shed on the case. Either way it's a big event to hear directly from Jackie. I hope Caroline serves her family well.

It is disappointing 'cause Mr Lane's work has raised almost as many questions as it has answered.

Thank you for giving McGeorge Bundy the recognition he so deserves. On edit: I think he also played a major role during the Bay of Pigs set up, insuring miscommunication.

Interesting little auction of the infamous Dallas "Wanted for Treason" poster, and write up: http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5708828

Great post here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:IMmpE04r3ywJ:www.politicsandcurrentaffairs.co.uk/Forum/us-politics-forum/105954-john-birch-society-extremism.html+koch+brothers+john+birch+society+union+busting&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com "Thread: John Birch Society Extremism Never Dies:The Fortune Behind Walker’s Union-Busting [Campaign]" Of course the poster is ridiculed down-thread.

Here is the longer version of one of Eisenhower's quotes: "The quote from President Dwight D. Eisenhower cited at the head of this page is in fact an accurate one. It wasn't something he uttered (it was instead something he wrote), ...taken verbatim from a letter President Eisenhower penned to his brother, Edgar Newton Eisenhower, on 8 November 1954: "Now it is true that I believe this country is following a dangerous trend when it permits too great a degree of centralization of governmental functions. I oppose this & in some instances the fight is a rather desperate one. But to attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything & even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon "moderation" in government. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid. http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/ike.asp The full letter is here: http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/presidential-papers/first-term/documents/1147.cfm

So Isle was too corrupt for the the Nazis. Gads. Good find on the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission John. That check was signed January 22, 1962. September 26, 1962: Edwin walker was organizing protests against enrollment of James Meredith at Ol' Miss. September 30, 1962: After the violent Ol' Miss riot RFK issued a warrant for Walker's arrest on charges of seditious conspiracy, insurrection & rebellion against the United States. Walker was arrested and held for psych observation for five days and claimed he was a "political prisoner" of the JFK Administration. Another interesting blurb here giving context to the demise of Joseph McCarthy’s attacks on "Communism" and the rise of the JBS: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/137550-tea-party-is-recycled-john-birch-society-hate-rhetoric.html "The John Birch Society was one of the decade’s most controversial right-wing organizations. Founded in 1958 by Robert Welch, a candy manufacturer from Massachusetts, the society took its name from a Baptist missionary and military-intelligence officer killed by Communist Chinese forces in 1945, whom Welch called the first American casualty of the Cold War. The group was founded at a propitious time. After Senator Joseph McCarthy’s fall, in 1954, many of McCarthy’s followers felt bereft of a voice, and Welch seemed to speak for them; by the mid-sixties, his society’s membership was estimated to be as high as a hundred thousand. Welch, exploiting fears of what McCarthy had called an “immense” domestic conspiracy, declared that the federal government had already fallen into the Communists’ clutches. In a tract titled “The Politician,” he attacked President Dwight D. Eisenhower as “a dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy” who had been serving the plot “all of his adult life.” Late in 1961, after the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion, he accused the Kennedy Administration of “helping the Communists everywhere in the world while pretending to do the opposite.” Wherever he looked, Welch saw Communist forces manipulating American economic and foreign policy." Again I think "Communism" is often used as a code word for "Labor Union" which is anathema to the radical right which wants cheap labor, preferably slave labor. And of course the Koch brothers David and Charles are rabid union busters: http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/18/koch-brothers-behind-wisconsin-effort-to-kill-public-unions/ "Koch Brothers Behind Wisconsin Effort To Kill Public Unions Feb. 18 2011 - 6:45 pm | 236,533 views | 10 recommendations | 443 comments As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here. Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers. What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book. ... Why are the Koch Brothers so interested in Wisconsin? They are a major business player in the state. This from Think Progress: Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant." President Kennedy appeared to be very pro union. He sided with the Steel Worker's Union against US Steel. He passed Executive Order 10988 that gave most federal employees the right to unionize and bargain collectively. http://www.pottersville.info/forums/showthread.php?189-Did-Business-Titans-Find-President-Kennedy-Guilty-of-Treason-in-the-War-on-Organized-Labor I've been wondering why the JBS attacked Eisenhower as a "Commie" (pro labor) and found a few quotes from Eisenhower: "Workers have a right to organize into unions and to bargain collectively with their employers. And a strong, free labor movement is an invigorating and necessary part of our industrial society." "Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of their right to join the union of their choice." "Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things, but their number is negligible and they are stupid." Ah, but those JBS Tea Partiers never give up on the dream.

Mr Lane, All JFK researchers owe you a huge debt of gratitude. Thank you for seeking justice for JFK for so long. I have a question: You note that Vincent Bugliosi apparently still believes that the world is flat. Gerald Posner apparently still believes that the world is flat as well. Why did you decide to become Gerald Posner's attorney and defend him against Miami New Times' stories about his literary thefts? Thank you, Myra Bronstein

Again I have no idea if this is true: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/03/11/the-koch-family-a-legacy-of-hate-part-one/ The Koch Family: A Legacy Of Hate (Part One) BY ERIN NANASI – MARCH 11, 2011 "Charles and David Koch’s father, Frederick C. Koch, co-founded Koch Industries in 1940. It was initially a company for refining crude oil. Oil has always played a big part in the Koch family fortune, back as far as the 1930’s. Frederick C. Koch also co-founded something else: The John Birch Society. The JBS, among many things, opposed the Civil Rights Movement, wants the US out of the United Nations and believes in global conspiracies, most involving the Federal Reserve. The society was built on Fred Koch’s oil money in the 1950s and can be thought of as the center of neo-conservative politics, much like the Tea Party movement. The ideologies of each are not the same, but the Tea Party fits into the neo-conservative mold of liberalism being the root of all evil, distrust, if not flat out hatred of minorities, and a deep seeded fear of change. And where did Fred Koch get these ideas? Information connecting Ilse Koch (nee Kohler) is hard to find. It’s mainly fragments, pieces of information that connect the American and German Kochs and this connection gives a clear image of the sentiment behind the Tea Party and conservative American politics since the 1950s. Where is the connection between the German Koch’s and Fred Koch? Besides evidence the American Koch was related to Ilse’s family, Erich Koch, a high level Nazi official in charge of Prussia, invites Fred Koch to sell his oil in Nazi Germany when he is banned from doing business in the US. After the fall of Nazi Germany, Erich Koch and Fred expand the oil empire to the Soviet Union. Erich Koch had been in charge of Prussia for Hitler so his ties to the Soviet Union ran deep. A few years later the Soviets took Fred Koch’s oil and prosecuted Erich for war crimes. Fred Koch returned to the US, became a FLAMING anti-communist, and was allowed to do business in the States again. Fred Koch admired Mussolini’s tactics against Communism, and it is when he embraces this sort of thinking that he becomes a staunch opponent of civil rights. Ilse and her husband Karl were tried by the SS before the war ended, accused of corruption. Karl Otto Koch was tried and sentenced to death in Nazi Germany, for incitement to murder and embezzlement. He was executed by firing quad on April 5th, 1945. After the war, Ilse was arrested in the German American Zone, tried in front of a tribunal and sentenced. Ilse committed suicide by hanging herself, in prison, in 1967. She was the only woman to be found guilty of war crimes in World War II. ... Fred Chase Koch (September 23, 1900 – November 17, 1967) chemical engineer and founded the TEXACO oil refinery firm that later became Koch Industries (Chevron). Koch and its customers were sued for patent infringement, process for turning crude oil into gasoline. Litigation effectively put Winkler-Koch out of business in the U.S. for several years. In other words, Koch was banned. Koch turned his focus to foreign markets, including the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, reportedly with the help of Erich Koch. During his time in the Soviet Union, Fred Koch came to despise communism and Josef Stalin’s regime “a land of hunger, misery and terror”. Fred C. Koch married Mary Robinson in Kansas City, Missouri in 1932. They had four sons, Frederick (b. 1933), Charles (b. 1935), David (b. 1940) and William (b. 1940). His sons are Charles de Ganahl Koch and David H. Koch. The New York Times on Charles and David: “Koch Industries began with oil in the 1930s and now also spews an array of industrial products, from Dixie cups to Lycra, not unlike DuPont’s portfolio of paint and plastics. Sometimes the biological DNA persists as well. The Koch brothers’ father, Fred, was among the select group chosen to serve on the Birch Society’s top governing body. In a recorded 1963 speech that survives in a University of Michigan archive, he can be heard warning of “a takeover” of America in which Communists would “infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the president is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us”. (That speech could be delivered as is at any Tea Party rally today, and has been, in one form or another.) article cont: Last week the Kochs were shoved unwillingly into the spotlight by the most comprehensive journalistic portrait of them yet, written by Jane Mayer of The New Yorker. Her article caused a stir among those in Manhattan’s liberal elite who didn’t know that David Koch, widely celebrated for his cultural philanthropy, is not merely another rich conservative Republican but the founder of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, which, as Mayer writes with some understatement, “has worked closely with the Tea Party since the movement’s inception”. ... I’d like to share one more little tidbit with you, gentle reader. Let us visit Dallas, Texas, a few days before the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. John Kennedy was a hero of the Civil Rights movement, and the far right hated him. The John Birch Society, for one, was extremely upset that Kennedy had transferred Major General Edwin Walker to Hawaii for handing out right wing literature to his troops. The paramilitary Minutemen had declared the Kennedy administration as “soft on communism” and were looking at guerilla warfare tactics to deal with “uprising”. Beginning about a week before the trip, posters began appearing, with mug shots of President Kennedy, and a banner reading “Wanted for Treason”. Major General Edwin Miller is widely believed to have been behind these posters, with help from right wing groups. Including Fred C. Koch and the John Birch Society. I am not suggesting that Fred C. Koch had something to do with President Kennedy’s assassination, although I have heard that speculated. But if you look at the posters at tea party rallies, and the birthers, and the right wing’s code words (urban, un-American, different, elitist) it all sounds a lot like what they did to Kennedy from 1962-1963. Jews, African Americans, Hispanics, women, the poor, the LGBT community, liberals, unions, socialists, communists, pacifists, Democrats. Looks fairly similar to the laundry list the Nazis had used to fill their camps, doesn’t it? It’s a disturbing legacy of hate, bigotry and incitement, and the Koch family uses their money to make sure they can continue in this legacy. Make no mistake, the Koch family has been doing this for three generations-they’re not going anywhere."

I just learned that the infamous Koch brothers' father, Fred Koch (another oil mogul), was one of the founding members of the radical right wing John Birch Society. A lot of people, myself included, think the JBS was deeply involved in President Kennedy's murder. Among the JBS members likely related to JFK's murder: Haroldson Lafayette Hunt, aka HL Hunt, Clint Murchison, Nelson Bunker Hunt, Edwin Walker, John Rousselot. Of course the Koch brothers founded/fund the radical right wing Tea Party.

I keep stumbling across Angleton when looking into the USS Liberty incident: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html Supposedly: "5) The Mossad has one non-Israeli named in its hall of honors: James Jesus Angleton, the CIA -Israeli desk operations chief at the time, who was later demoted by CIA director William Colby" http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/1948 And here (I have no idea if this is true): "t's not the first time CIA and Mossad work jointly to effect changes in the East. They cooperated to assassinate JFK with CIA counter-intelligence director James Jesus Angleton as the laison to the Mossad. Israeli Zionists consider Mr. Angleton instrumental to the rise of Israel's power, now that Israel is currently a nuclear power while playing coy in Ambiguity about its nuclear warhead arsenal, so they bestow the honor on Mr. Angleton's name with the dedication of a memorial plaque in Israel." http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/5136 I don't see a difference. I think the CIA and mafia are two sides of the same coin.

Thanks Zach. The printed version is very expensive so that's a good deal if a printed version isn't a requirement. You're welcome Myra. The printed versions are identical; the former a hardback and the latter a paperback. It is unclear if there will be a new printing for a 3rd edition. The publisher does science textbooks. Personally, I would rather have a real book but it is nice to have an e-book option with the prices the way they are now. This is an important book that seemingly gets overlooked much like Battling Wall Street. Zach Yes. "Battling Wall Street" is my second favorite, after "JFK and the Unspeakable." So I wanted to read "JFK Cover-Up" but balked at the price. Um, I have kind of a basic question: can e-books be loaded onto a PC? I want all JFK books in hard copy format. But I'd also love to have them in searchable form. How great would it be to have all JFK books on a PC and be able to search for certain strings? Sure would facilitate research.

Thanks Zach. The printed version is very expensive so that's a good deal if a printed version isn't a requirement.