John Korienek

With the help of Charles Drago I have produced the first draft of a page on George Michael Evica.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKevica.htm

Please send me any corrections or additions that you want to make to the page.

Just wondering if anyone knows if Evica continued his theory of an elitist killing of the President, or if his Perfect Cover was part of an ongoing chapter of the assassination.

Also, does anyone know if this paper has been critiqued anywhere at all on the internet.

I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on Allen Dulles. Does anyone believe he was involved in the assassination of JFK? This is what Namebase has on Dulles.

http://www.namebase.org/main1/Allen-Welsh-Dulles.html

DULLES ALLEN WELSH

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John,

I agree that a good discussion of Allen Dulles and his possible involvement in the Kennedy assassination is necessary. In fact, I think that it's been long overdue, say like about forty-three and a half years. In fact, it's more than a curiosity that no acceptable "theory" of the assassination has been forwarded, with the exception of Donald Gibson's work, which begins with the question "What the Hell are Allen Dulles and John J McCloy doing on a Warren Commission, investigating the death of the President?" Most people can give the flippant answer of the identity of Allen Dulles, but no one seems to have asked, "Who the Hell is John J McCloy?"

Granted that it would have been much harder to find pertinent information on this dynamic duo way back in pre-historic 1964, but why wasn't this done? A fairly obvious reason is that the early researchers/writers on the assassination had skillfully lead the herd into many other passages in the maze. Another reason may have been the ESCHEW SPECULATION blinking sign that may have mesmerized the herd.

For it seems now that if anybody had looked into the lives of these two way back then, they would have found out some amazing things. For example, they were both VIP's in the organization The Council on Foreign Relations, described by Jim Marrs and others as a secret society. People like sociologist George Michael Evica in his 1995 paper Perfect Cover, available at Rahn's website, seem to be beginning to think in terms of an elitist theory of the assassination, and both McCloy and Dulles were highly active tools of this organization.

If people way back then didn't buy into the herd mentality, they might have read Morris Bealle's Guns of the Progressive Right, and these two "honorable" men and their organization might have been put under the microscope then. I kinda wonder what would have happened.

So John Simkin, did you happen to notice the easy chit-chat, the mindless banter, that accompanied your initial post? I think this is the main reason the Kennedy assassination hasn't gotten very far. What do you think, John Simkin??

John asked:

I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread on Allen Dulles. Does anyone believe he was involved in the assassination of JFK? This is what Namebase has on Dulles.

Jack replies:

Allen Dulles is the number one suspect atop the conspiracy pyramid.

Right below Dulles are LBJ and JEH.

Assassination plans were finalized when Dulles visited the LBJ Ranch

a week before 11-22, and at the Murchison party the night of 11-21.

Jack

Jack,

I thought I had read somewhere that Dulles was in Dallas around the end of October, when he gave a presentation to some Dallas organization then. Might he not also visited LBJ at his ranch immediately following this? In other words, might there not have been multiple meetings?

I would agree with your surmise that Dulles is the number one suspect, along with his longtime buddy and fellow Council on Foreign Relations VIP John J McCloy. I would also add to any short list the also-fired Bissell as one of the plotters/planners of the assassination. Anyone wanting to view a relationship chart could put McCloy's name in namebase.org and do a proximity search.

There should be no surprise there, as both Dulles and McCloy were both longtime Rockefeller employees/agents.

John K

The idea that Kennedy was too radical for the military-industrial complex is the thesis behind the two motion pictures about the case: the dull 1973 version. Executive Action, which starred Burt Lancaster, and Oliver Stone's JFK. Stone emphasised Vietnam: Kennedy was shot to stop withdrawal from Vietnam. This is the thesis of the late L. Fletcher Prouty, former US Air Force Colonel, who had a remarkable book. The Secret Team, published in America in 1973. Prouty was a really important insider, not only the US Air Force's liaison officer with the ClA's covert operations in the 1950s, but someone who had also been in charge of presidential security. As former liaison with the CIA, Prouty had watched the growth of the agency covert operations. As a security officer, Prouty looked at the events that day in Dallas and saw the absence of presidential security. As Prouty pointed out, the absence of security is all you need to arrange. Prouty implied, but never quite stated, that the US Secret Service had to be part of the plot. Unfortunately for Prouty his book got buried under the Watergate scandal.

Extract from Who Shot JFK (2002)

I think that somewhere along the line someone might bring up the idea that Prouty was a CIA asset. He certainly was not persona non grata within the Intelligence community.

According to info found just googling around, Prouty received an MBA in, of all things, Banking, when he "retired" from the military, and was the banker for the retired CIA types.

If his books are viewed from the perspective that he was a CIA asset, one can begin to wonder how much spin is attached to all the information he does present in his books and articles.

At the very least, he continues the long-established trend that the Kennedy assassination was a very unfortunate, but isolated, incident in the drama of the Cold War.

There are articulate people these days who view Kennedy's death as part of a greater conspiracy, the NWO conspiracy. Kennedy and his brother were obstructing the time-table laid down by the master-planners of the coming-to-fruition conspiracy of this larger conspiracy.

A Certain Arrogance

U.S. Intelligence's Manipulation of Religious Groups and Individuals in Two World Wars and the Cold War —and the Sacrificing of Lee Harvey Oswald

by George Michael Evica

From the Xlibris website:

Description:

A Certain Arrogance is a reticulation of eight essays on the history of international intelligence (primarily U.S. espionage), on Allen Dulles and John Foster Dulles and their manipulation of religious groups and individuals to achieve U.S. elitist goals, on the development of U.S. psychological warfare operations, and on the sacrifice of Lee Harvey Oswald in the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

American Spymaster Allen Dulles, based in Switzerland, had abused religious (largely Protestant) individuals and institutions for U.S. intelligence through two World Wars and the subsequent "Cold War." His brother John Foster Dulles also used major religious groups (again, largely Protestant) from 1937 through 1959 to further both his own and the American establishment's political and economic goals.

I would just like to make a slight correction to Robert Morningstar's otherwise excellent review of the Evica book.

Anyone who has seen the movie Friendly Persuasion would come away from this experience with a real distaste for the Quakers. A large part of the movie seems to me to be the point of ridiculing this sect.

The husband in the movie, played by Gary Cooper, was only a nominal Quaker, and he tolerated the religion only because his wife was a diehard believer.

In fact,a major crisis of the movie occurs near the very end of the movie, when the wife picks up a broom to beat a Confederate soldier who wants to capture the family pet, a goose. At last this woman is able to break out of the bogus conditioning of this "friendly" religion.

Without checking, I would be willing to bet that the woman author of the book upon which the movie was based grew up in this faith, and this book was her adult response to her early life experiences.

I post this only to correct the highly erroneous impression that Morningstar gives of this sect.

One religious individual, Noel Field (American Quaker, Unitarian, and Marxist) was used by Allen Dulles to manipulate religious relief organizations in World War II and in the post war period. Dulles finally utilized Field to help destabilize Communist Eastern Europe. Dulles apparently collaborated in this plan with Jozef Swiatlo, a Communist/CIA double agent, who later surfaced in the Warren Commission's Kennedy assassination investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Swiss based Albert Schweitzer College had major religious origins that were both social and political. Post war liberal Protestant movements in Europe, including the International Association for Religious Freedom, helped to create the college in Switzerland, the country at the center of Allen Dulles' fifty year spy program. In the United States, the college was supported by a powerful coalition of American religious liberalism, primarily the Unitarian Church, the Unitarian Service Committee, and the American Friends of Albert Schweitzer College.

Albert Schweitzer College's history strongly suggests that American espionage assets helped establish the college and then used it, possibly with the knowledge and even cooperation of some of its religious supporters in the Unitarian Church movement and those who worked for the college in Switzerland. One leading Unitarian who worked closely with both U.S. intelligence and the military in the '40s and '50s was President of the American Friends of Albert Schweitzer College, exactly when Lee Harvey Oswald applied. That same intelligence connected Unitarian worked with a second influential Unitarian to help control U.S. space programs, including the U 2 overflights, and in the '60s, that intelligence connected Unitarian fronted for a major CIA proprietary. Those who set policy for Albert Schweitzer College were, therefore, elite members of the establishment and allies of the Central Intelligence Agency. In 1959, Lee Harvey Oswald registered to attend Albert Schweitzer College and therefore became a direct link between the college and American intelligence.

Whoever masterminded the Oswald college action was knowledgeable about both the OSS's and the CIA's use of Quakers, officials of the World Council of Churchs, and Unitarians as contacts, assets, and informants (often as double agents) AND about the FBI's responsibility in tracking down and identifying Soviet illegals and double agents. Oswald was, therefore, a creature of someone in American counterintelligence who possessed precisely that double body of knowledge.

Full story: http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisp...sp?bookid=20082

Thanks for the post , Michael. Here is the first Amazon review:

Michael Evica's "A Certain Arrogance" - Reviewed by RDM*, November 22, 2006

Reviewer: Robert D. Morningstar "Robert D. Morningstar" (New York City) - See all my reviews

George Michael Evica's

"A Certain Arrogance"

A Book Review

By Robert D. Morningstar

November 22, 2006

Oh, how terrible and barbarous are those Islamic Fundamentalists! How devious and demonic appear those Mullahs and Ayatollahs shown to us on CNN and Fox News each day and night, manipulating and perverting the religious teachings of a "religion of peace" to indoctrinate young minds towards self-destruction, suicide bombing and terrorism. How perverse of them it is to use religion as an excuse to attain political and military objectives. And, Oh, how much more moral are we than they! We, the self-righteous, morally and ethically "superior" Westerners who eschew such debased use of religious dogma as propaganda and mass mind-control tactics in the indoctrination of our own citizens.

"Not so!" might say Professor George Michael Evica, an outstanding and well-respected expert of JFK Assassination and US Intelligence History, through his riveting new book, entitled "A Certain Arrogance." In "A Certain Arrogance" (Iron Sights Press, 2006), Professor Evica reveals the history of the recruitment and indoctrination of US intelligence assets (spies/assassins) for OSS and CIA beginning during World War II when, through the work of OSS members Wild Bill Donovan and Allan Dulles, religious institutions, particularly, the Unitarian Church and the Quaker movement, were used as "fronts" in the selection and culling of candidates for espionage and special operations by America's intelligences services, OSS and CIA, domestically and abroad.

From OSS World War II operations in Switzerland to the Congo of the 1950s and 1960s to Patrice Lamumba University in Moscow, Evica takes the reader on a meticulously documented tour of international intrigues involved in the training of intelligence operatives through their education and indoctrination at various institutions run by religious organizations. Foremost among these in American intelligence gathering and special operations were the Unitarian Church and the Quakers. However, Evica shows us that these are not the same Quakers we think of when we remember the warmth and quiet courage of Gary Cooper and "Friendly Persuasion."

Professor Evica begins his chronicle of covert operations with the recruitment, education and indoctrination of Lee Harvey Oswald as began his peregrinations in 1958-59 toward his defection to Russia by passing through Switzerland's Albert Schweitzer College, where the CIA and FBI maintained contacts and operatives.

Evica chronicles the historic role of the Rockefeller clan in funding "missionary activities throughout the world" for intelligence gathering and suppression of undesirable activist social movements beginning in the early 188o's to gather intelligence information in order to quash American Indian activities in the West. Evica states:

"As early as 1883, the Rockefellers had `used [Christian] missionaries to gather intelligence about [Native American] insurgencies in the West or to discourage them.'

In the United States and later throughout Central and South America, Family Rockefeller power was linked to Christian missionary work."

The Rockefeller method of using Christian military activities in conjunction with financial power proved to be so successful in consolidating the Rockefeller Empire in the Americas that it was then employed in the Far East, in China, Korea, Philippines and Taiwan. By 1957, the Rockefellers had enlisted American Fundamentalist Revivalism as a national power base and put their support behind the evangelist, Billy Graham.

Evica's book takes the reader back and forth across continents and oceans both to the Far East, Korea and Nationalist Taiwan, and to Europe, but always after short side trips, Evica returns the travels of Lee Harvey Oswald as he made his way inevitably to Dallas, Texas and the site of the JFK Assassination.

Ruth and Michael Paine

A Quaker & A Unitarian

Lee Oswald's Dallas "Handlers"

Throughout his meandering journey, Oswald repeated encounters operatives of Unitarian, Quaker and Southern Baptist Fundamentalist missionary activities. For example, Oswald's "friends" and hosts in Dallas, Michael and Ruth Paine, who took Marina Oswald under her wing, were associated with both the Unitarian and the Quaker missionary movements. Evica suggests (as this writer has often asserted) that Michael Paine, "a physical Oswald double," may have acted in that capacity to bring attention in a negative way to Oswald's activities by setting up "political confrontations" at Southern Methodist University on Sundays after attending as "a communicant at a `nearby' Unitarian Church."

The religious intrigues surrounding the life and death of Lee Harvey Oswald, as detailed and documented by Evica in this masterful work, shed a disturbing light on the events in Dallas on November 22, 1963 and suggest an almost direct link to current history-altering and world-shaping national and international events in which our nation is today engaged (although "embroiled" may be a more appropriate term).

The importance of this work is self-evident and shows that the JFK Assassination is as important today as on the day it happened, exactly 43 years ago today (I chose to compose on this day intentionally for this reason). George Michael Evica's close friend and research associate for many years, Charles Drago, writes in his eloquent introduction to "A Certain Arrogance":

"A Certain Arrogance stands as Professor Evica's response to the unavoidable question:

How do we define and effect justice in the wake of the world-historic tragedy in Dallas?

Clearly he understands that, at this late date, being content merely to identify and, if possible, prosecute the conspiracy's facilitators and mechanics would amount to hollow acts of vengeance. Cleaning and closing the wound while leaving the disease to spread is simply not an option." Mr. Drago goes on to make analogy between the JFK Assassination and a cancer that continues to spread through our government and contaminates and taints our history.

From this short and eloquent diagnosis, current events clearly demonstrate that "the cancer" which infected government policy and national politics that day in Dallas, November 22nd, 1963 still persists, continues to grow in virulence and has created an all too patient but sick nation. The question remains "What is the remedy that will rid us of the cancer but not kill the patient?" This reviewer's response is:

The remedy that will heal the nation and stop the cancer from spreading any farther is achieving "Justice for JFK."

I recommend "A Certain Arrogance" to all those good citizens who are interested in recovering our national security from the Machiavellian manipulation of misguided patriots and religious fanatics who at the core are not dissimilar in credo, strategy and tactics from those same terrorists from whom they pretend to defend us.

I have now been able to reconstruct the early history of Operation Mockingbird. After the Second World War a group of people met on a regular basis in Georgetown. They became known as the Georgetown crowd. Most of them knew each other from before the war. Some had gone to the same schools or universities. Others had worked together as lawyers in New York. Many of them had been members of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) during the war.

The group was united by a shared political ideology. They had become involved in politics during the 1930s. They were Roosevelt supporting Democrats. In fact, they thought FDR had not been radical enough with his policies. They retained these progressive views on domestic issues (in fact, in most cases they held these views until they died).

When it came to foreign policy they were staunchly anti-communist. In most cases, these views had been developed while serving in the OSS. However, their anti-communist views was not applied to domestic policy. For example, they did not believe like say J. Edgar Hoover, that American communists posed a threat to national security.

They were also intellectuals. They had no time for those rabble rousers who attempted to use anti-left-wing views to put forward racist ideas. This distanced themselves from the Republican Party and the Democratic Party in the Deep South. They supported Harry Truman in 1948 and Adlai Stevenson in 1952. Many of them held posts in the Truman administration. They supported his Fair Deal policies and his tough stance against the Soviet Union. They were keen advocates of the Marshall Plan, as they saw it as the best defence against communism in Europe.

The Georgetown crowd included the following: Frank Wisner, Richard Bissell, Desmond FitzGerald, Joseph Alsop, Tracy Barnes, Philip Graham, Katharine Graham, Clark Clifford, Walt Rostow, Eugene Rostow, William Bundy, Charles Thayer, Chips Bohlen and Paul Nitze. This group had access to and support of, James Forrestal, Dean Acheson, George Kennan and Adlai Stevenson.

This group basically supported Truman’s policies. However, they felt he was not pro-active enough with his anti-communist strategy. They were especially concerned about the possible growth of communism in under-developed countries. They therefore came up with a plan of action. This was drawn up by Frank Wisner and George Kennan. It was then shown to the Secretary of Defence, James Forrestal. He approved it and as a result the Office of Special Projects was established in 1948. Soon afterwards it was renamed the Office of Policy Coordination (OPC). This became the espionage and counter-intelligence branch of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Frank Wisner was made director of OPC. The aim of the OPC was to create an organization that concentrated on "propaganda, economic warfare; preventive direct action, including sabotage, anti-sabotage, demolition and evacuation measures; subversion against hostile states, including assistance to underground resistance groups, and support of indigenous anti-Communist elements in threatened countries of the free world."

Wisner realised that propaganda was going to play an important role in this work. This did not only mean propaganda abroad. If this covert action was going to work it had to control the way these events were reported in America. He therefore established Operation Mockingbird, a program to control the media. Wisner recruited Philip Graham (Washington Post) to run the project within the industry. According to Deborah Davis (Katharine the Great): "By the early 1950s, Wisner 'owned' respected members of the New York Times, Newsweek, CBS and other communications vehicles." By 1953 the OPC had a major influence over 25 major newspapers and wire agencies. One of the most important journalists under Wisner's control was Joseph Alsop, whose articles appeared in over 300 different newspapers.

Wisner also recruited into the OPC several members of the Georgetown crowd. This included Richard Bissell, Desmond FitzGerald, Tracy Barnes and Cord Meyer. Other former members of the OSS such as Arthur Schlesinger worked closely with this group.

For Operation Mockingbird to work, Wisner could not just rely on those journalists and publishers who shared the Georgetown Crowd view of the world. It was therefore not too difficult to get right-wingers like William Paley (CBS), C.D. Jackson (Fortune Magazine), Henry Luce (Time Magazine and Life Magazine), Arthur Hays Sulzberger (New York Times), Jerry O'Leary (Washington Star), Hal Hendrix (Miami News), Barry Bingham Sr., (Louisville Courier-Journal), James Copley (Copley News Services) and Joseph Harrison (Christian Science Monitor) involved in the operation.

It was also important for Wisner to be able to influence journalists who were respected for their objectivity and their willingness to criticise the government. They did this by providing them with leaks that furthered the cause. Drew Pearson is an example of someone who was used in this way. People like Pearson were important when the OPC wanted to deal with people within the CIA.

J. Edgar Hoover grew very concerned with the power that the OPC and the Georgetown Crowd was having over political life. He carried out investigations into their past. It did not take him long to discover that some of them had been active in left-wing politics in the 1930s. This information was passed to Joe McCarthy who started making attacks on people like Dean Acheson, William Bundy, Charles Thayer, Paul Nitze, Chips Bohlen and Cord Meyer. Hoover did not realise what he was taking on. Wisner unleashed Operation Mockingbird on McCarthy. Drew Pearson, Joe Alsop, Jack Anderson, Walter Lippmann and Ed Murrow all went into attack mode and McCarthy was destroyed (although the monster he had created went on).

According to Alex Constantine (Mockingbird: The Subversion Of The Free Press By The CIA), in the 1950s, "some 3,000 salaried and contract CIA employees were eventually engaged in propaganda efforts". Wisner was also able to keep newspapers from reporting about certain events. For example, the CIA plots to overthrow the governments of Iran and Guatemala.

The overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala is particularly interesting. This was very much a OPC operation. It included the following cast of operators: Frank Winser, Tracy Barnes, Richard Bissell, David Atlee Phillips, Rip Robertson and E. Howard Hunt.

Wisner was also able to use Operation Mockingbird to keep the true story out of the American media. For example, people like Henry Luce were called into to censor stories that appeared too sympathetic towards the plight of Arbenz. (Journalists working on Time Magazine were shocked to see him taking out articles that had already been approved by the editor). Wisner was also able to use the CIA to stop “honest” journalists from travelling to Guatemala. This included Sydney Gruson of the New York Times.

Eisenhower was very impressed with Wisner’s work in Guatemala. Eisenhower asked Wisner how much the operation cost ($20m). He then asked how many men Castillo Armas lost during the overthrow of Arbenz. The answer was “only one”. Eisenhower shook his head, remembering the thousands that had been killed in various operations during the Second World War. Eisenhower could only reply “incredible”.

Wisner suffered a mental breakdown after Eisenhower refused to support the Hungarian Uprising in 1956 (we must not forget that the Georgetown Group were idealists who really believed in freedom and democracy). Bissell eventually took over CIA covert operations from Wisner (he eventually committed suicide). It is no surprise that when Bissell began planning the overthrow of Fidel Castro he called on the same team who had successfully overthrown Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala. Operation Mockingbird was also used to ensure the right sort of coverage in the American media.

By 1960 the Georgetown Crowd were still supporters of the Democrats (they had also supported Adlai Stevenson in 1956). Nixon was too closely identified with Eisenhower, a man who had been a great disappointment to them. They had been concerned by his decision to have a summit meeting with Khrushchev in Paris in May, 1960. It was now clear that Khrushchev was willing to negotiate an end to the Cold War. Eisenhower, coming to the end of his time as president, wanted to leave this as his legacy. Bissell decided to undermine the summit by arranging for the U-2 spy plane to go on a mission over the Soviet Union on 1st May, 1960. As this was May Day Soviet airspace was virtually empty and they therefore picked up the U-2 the moment it crossed the border. On 7th May Khrushchev made a speech where he revealed that the U-2 spy plane had been shot down near Sverdlovsk. That put paid to Eisenhower’s peace negotiations.

The Georgetown’s first choice was Lyndon Johnson. However, despite the help given by Philip Graham and other members of Operation Mockingbird, by the summer of 1960 it was clear that LBJ was not going to get the nomination. The strategy had to change. JFK became their candidate.

Dulles already had a close relationship with JFK. This is revealed by an incident that took place on 13th March, 1960. Oatsie Charles and Ian Fleming, the creator of James Bond, attended a dinner party at JFK’s house in Georgetown. At the end of the meal JFK asked Fleming how he would get rid of Castro. Fleming outlined several different methods.

At 7.45 the next morning, Allen Dulles phoned up Oatsie Charles and asked to be put into contact with Ian Fleming. Dulles said he had heard that Fleming had “developed some interesting ideas of how to deal with Castro” and he wanted to hear them personally.

Bissell asked Joe Alsop to arrange a meeting with JFK. Both men attended a dinner party at Alsop’s house in August. This was followed by several other meetings. Bissell was impressed with JFK. What he liked was his anti-communism. More importantly, he liked the way he intended to deal with it. Bissell told friends that JFK was “action-orientated” and “impatient with bureaucracy”. Bissell was convinced that a JFK presidency would get “quick results”. Bissell, who had supported Adlai Stevenson in 1952 and 1956, compared the two men. Whereas he saw Stevenson as a “Cicero”, JFK was a “Caesar”.

However, there were still deals to be done. This is why Philip Graham had his meeting with JFK after he won the nomination. JFK would be given the full support of Operation Mockingbird as long as he took LBJ as his running-mate. They also wanted two of their friends to be given senior posts in his administration. Douglas Dillion as Secretary of the Treasury and David Bruce as Secretary of State. JFK agreed to Dillion but rejected Bruce for this post. Instead he was appointed as Ambassador to London. This was an important post for the CIA to get as Britain was seen as its staunchest ally in its fight against communism.

Although I have yet to find any evidence of this I suspect that Bissell got a third person into the administration. This was McGeorge Bundy as National Security Adviser. He proved to be a Bissell loyalist during the problems over Cuba. Arthur Schlesinger was the inside man for this group). 

Another Bissell supporter was Chester Bowles. In early 1961 he attempted to persuade JFK to appoint Bissell as Secretary of State. JFK refused saying that Bissell was going to take Allen Dulles job as director of the CIA on 1st July, 1961.

Why did Bissell want Dillon as Secretary of the Treasury? We know that Bissell and Dillon were close friends (they had met while students at Gorton School). Dillon had been a source of information and encouragement while serving as Under Secretary of State in Eisenhower’s administration. He met Lumumba in July, 1960. Dillon came to the conclusion that Lumumba was a communist. He told Bissell about this. A few days later Lumumba’s assassination was discussed at a National Security Council meeting (21st July).

How does this information help us understand the JFK assassination? First of all, because of the history of the Georgetown Crowd, I don’t think any of them were involved in planning the assassination of JFK. However, Operation Mockingbird was used for the cover-up. This I think helps us understand the assassination. It confirms my belief that the Soviets or Castro had anything to do with the assassination. If so, Operation Mockingbird would have been used to fulfil their major objective of destroying communism.

Therefore, why did they do it. One possibility is that CIA members outside the Georgetown Group had been involved. Maybe those non-Georgetown people who had helped overthrow Arbenz (Philips, Hunt, Robertson).

Another possibility is that the Georgetown Crowd had joined forces with the Suite 8F Group. Had LBJ brought these two groups together. They were both groups who cared a great deal about military spending. The Suite 8F Group was also concerned about the Texas oil industry. This included getting federal contracts from the Secretary of the Navy. Take a look at the three people who held this post in JFK and LBJ’s administration: John Connally (January, 1961 – December, 1961), Fred Korth (December, 1961 to November, 1963) and Paul Nitze (November, 1963 to June, 1967). The first two were members of Suite 8F and Nitze was a member of the Georgetown crowd.

The other thing that Suite 8F cared about was the Oil Depletion Allowance. Dillon, as Secretary of the Treasury was in a good position to block that move. Dillon was eventually replaced by Henry Hammill Fowler in 1965. He was someone who was at Yale with Bissell. He also worked as assistant general counsel of War Production Board in Germany during the war. He was also a member of the National Security Council. I have yet to discover if Fowler was a member of Bissell’s group but it seems likely and could be further evidence of how the Suite 8F Group and the CIA worked together during the 1960s.

Were the CIA therefore involved in covering up the role that Suite 8F Group had played in the assassination? Or were they protecting their own? Or were they doing both of these things?

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John,

Regarding C Douglas Dillon, I think the readers of your forum, especially Shanet Clark, deserve another view of this squeaky clean, distinguished patriot, a view not to be found in your bio of Dillon. Perhaps you could include it.

This is from George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography, by Tarpley and Chaitkin.

"C Douglas Dillon was the boss of William H Draper, Jr in the Draper-Prescott Bush-Fritz Thyssen Nazi banking scheme of the 1930's and 40's. His father, Clarence Dillon, created the Vereinigte Stahlwerke (Thyssen's German Steel Trust) in 1926."

In other words, Dillon was part of the Neo-Nazi crowd of the inner core of the Council on Foreign Relations. Strange that you missed this.

For more info on Dillon, put his name and "nazi banking" in google. You could spend all night on this.

John

Doug Dillon was in the film "executive action" ?

That totally blows my mind.

In the WISE MEN book, Dillon is shown to be Robert Lovett's

choice for treasury when Lovett himself demurred for health

reasons.

What is the CIA connection?

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Shanet,

I believe the Executive Action John Simkin was referring to was the CIA program for eliminating the leaders of foreign powers found undesirable by the u.s. government.

Some people think it was this killing mechanism that was used to kill President Kennedy.

Some people think that Dillon had to be in place as head of the Secret Service so that he could give the order to pull the body from Parkland Memorial Hospital, as an honest autopsy would be fatal to the plotters' lone gunman scenario.

Some people think that a lot of the old boy OSS/CIA network found their way into the Council on Foreign Relations. These people also believe the CIA was just the strong arm of the CFR, doing its bidding as a kind of invisible government.

Some people know Allen Dulles was a founding member of the CFR in 1921. He was in and out of government for forty years by the time Kennedy was elected president. Important people like Dillon and Lovett were important in government and the CFR.

So where John Simkin uses the term CIA, I prefer the term CFR. If you don't know what I am writing about, maybe it's time you and a lot of other people need to find out.

John

John,

Just a few comments and opinions.

First, I'm not a photoanalyst, but Sturgis could never (IMHO) have been one of the tramps. He has a distinctive, fleshy nose which in no way resembles the nose of the Latin-appearing tramp. He may have been the communications person in this group.

The oldest tramp may well have been Hunt. Although Hunt was born in 1919, making him only 44 in 1963, and although the oldest tramp appears to be 20 years older, he still looks like Hunt to me. Even the height correponds correctly, even perfectly.

The tallest, youngest tramp appears to be Harrelson, a known Mafia/CIA contract agent, specifically a shooter.

Regarding the Bay of Pigs, I believe that it was designed to fail. If you can believe the government let Pearl Harbor happen or let 9-11 happen, surely the sacrifice of so many Cuban lives would be believable. The reason? The CIA/military/Cuban/Castro/Oswald revenge scenario becomes the most obvious answer to the assassination. Are the people who really killed Kennedy so clever that they could have plotted something like this, so far in advance? For this would suggest that plans for the assassination were on the drawing board the minute Kennedy won the 1960 election. Nixon, the true conspirator's puppet, was supposed to win that election. Find out who controlled Nixon, and you find out who really ordered the death of JFK.

Anyway, my opinion.

This should help orient the testimony, Main, Elm, Houston, etc.

Great threads recently, lots of material.

The blood puddles at the site of the Classic Gunman and

behind the Texas Building, they are very interestering.

Al Currier agrees with me that this was the work of

a triangulated ambush team with radiomen, snipers, and spotters.

I have often wondered who and where the base station was, HQ.

Inside the Dal Textile Building, who was co-ordinating radio traffic? Hunt?

What about the reconning tower above the tracks behind the north Knoll?

The traffic was heavy in and out of the tower and lot,

and the car seen in NIX, these things are still intriguing to me.

It is becoming very strongly held in some quarters that JFK was killed by a shot from the SOUTH KNOLL, as he faced left he was shot from his left front.

Hope this is helpful, welcome New Members...thank you all...

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Shanet,

When I first looked into the assassination, I too wondered where the base station may have been. Over the course of time I have thought of a couple of places. It seems to me the Main Dallas Post Office was then located just south of the Plaza, and, as a government building, would have been an ideal location to set up an observation post without arousing any suspicion.

Also, if Jean Hill's story were true, she was picked up and interrogated, along with Mary Moorman, in the same room where the federal agents were observing her activities. This in itself is a very interesting subject for further thinking. Would you know which building they might have used?

Also, a very important character was observing the assassination through rather powerful binoculars. He was also in the brief interrogation of Oswald on that Sunday morning, just before his death. I believe Ian Griggs wrote a paper on him. Can't think of his name. Any idea of where he was positioned?

A very good area of inquiry.

John

In the 1940s a group of right-wing politicians and businessmen in Texas joined what became known as the Suite 8F group. The name comes from the room in the Lamar Hotel in Houston where they held their meetings. Members of the group included Lyndon Johnson, George and Herman Brown (Brown & Root), Jesse H. Jones (multi-millionaire investor in a large number of organizations and chairman of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation), Gus Wortham (American General Insurance Company), Robert Kerr (Kerr-McGee Oil Industries), James Abercrombie (Cameron Iron Works), William Hobby (Governor of Texas), Richard Russell (chairman of the Committee of Manufactures, Committee on Armed Forces and Committee of Appropriations), Albert Thomas (chairman of the House Appropriations Committee) and John Connally (Governor of Texas). Political fixers and LBJ cronies, Alvin Wirtz and Ed Clark, were also members of 8F.

After the war George and Herman Brown (of Brown & Root) joined with other members of 8F to form Texas Eastern Transmission Company. Johnson helped this organization to buy the government owned Big Inch and Little Big Inch pipelines. This gave them control of a considerable amount of the petroleum supply to the East. In fact, this group become involved in all the government contracts obtained by Brown and Root by LBJ.

It was this group that was giving LBJ his orders before 1960. LBJ tried to publicly distance himself from this group when he became vice president. 8F had been opposed to LBJ becoming vice president as they thought it would reduce his power. How wrong they were. The group did extremely well under LBJ as president. For example, Project Mohole and the NASA’s Spacecraft Center in Houston. Albert Thomas played a key role in this success.

The group also won the vast majority of government contracts granted during the Vietnam War. Suite 8F formed a new company called RMK-BRJ to obtain these contracts. This included Halliburton who took over Brown & Root in 1962. These contracts included building jet runways, dredging channels for ships, hospitals, prisons, communications facilities, and building American bases from Da Nang to Saigon. RMK-BRJ did 97% of the construction work in Vietnam. The other 3% went to local Vietnamese contractors. Between 1965 and 1972 Brown & Root (Halliburton) alone obtained revenues of $380 million from its work in Vietnam.

Senator Abraham Ribicoff of Connecticut attempted to expose this scandal. He claimed that millions was being paid in kickbacks. An investigation by the General Accounting Office discovered that by 1967 RMK-BRJ had “lost” $120 million. However, GAO never managed to identify the people obtaining these kickbacks.

Anti-war protesters decided that George Brown was the mastermind behind this corruption. Demonstrations against him took place everywhere Brown went. It got so bad that Brown advised LBJ to withdraw from Vietnam. Brown told LBJ that if he did not do this, the war would destroy both men. It did destroy LBJ but Brown survived the protests.

LBJ’s resignation as president was a body blow to the Suite 8F group. However, they had made preparations and Connally had already got Richard Nixon involved with the group. He arranged for Nixon to meet fellow members at his ranch in Texas. This resulted in Connally becoming Secretary of the Treasury and Jesse H. Jones as Secretary of Commerce. However, they were not able to obtain the success that LBJ achieved in the 1950s and 1960s. The main reason for this was that LBJ was no longer able to control the chairmanship of the important Senate committees. The group was particularly hurt by the death of Albert Thomas (chairman of the House Appropriations Committee).

The end of the Vietnam War resulted in a sharp decline in Halliburton's fortunes. In the 1980s it was unable to get very many government contracts and for a while it looked like the company would go out of business. Then they appointed Dick Cheney as Halliburton's CEO. He then adopted the policies that had been pioneered by Herman and George Brown. George Bush was Brown & Root's LBJ.

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John,

A very perceptive post. However, if you are going to continue this line of reasoning I think it will be necessary, eventually, to try and determine whether the Texas connection or the Eastern Establishment had the real or final power in the U.S. during the post-war period. I believe personally that these two groups are not so separate as some believe, but were actually in cahoots and were actively involved in the assassination. Can't prove it though.

JK

The only question I would have for Mr Marrs is whether he is planning, in either an updated version of Crossfire or an entirely new book, to present his current views of the assassination in greater depth, or whether he will remain content with the information he has already published in his Rule by Secrecy.

McCloy spent ten years of his own life uncovering a German governmental coverup involving spies, "murder" and "sabotage." What better man to have on the commission? And we concentrate on who was in Dealy Plaza instead of the big picture. I think McCloy would appreciate that.

Jim Root

Jim,

As an example of John Simkin's theory of divergent personalities studying the Kennedy assassination, I would ask you to consider the information contained in a number of books. Among them would be Donald Gibson's The Kennedy Assassination Cover-Up and Kai Bird's establishment pap biography on McCloy The Chairman:.

The Gibson book suggests that the organization McCloy was a part of may have been involved in the assassination. In fact, this author suggests this might be the very reason McCloy and Dulles were "chosen" to participate in the farce. If this were so, McCloy would be in a good position to know who ordered the assassination, as both he and Dulles were very high-ranking members of this organization, in fact part of the inner core.

According to establishment author Bird, McCloy rubbed shoulders with a lot of high-ranking military types while serving in the State Department's War Department during the second World War. In fact, McCloy was instrumental in the building of the Pentagon, and it was known as "McCloy's folly". In fact, McCloy, according to Bird, went quail hunting with Lyman Lemnitzer, the man who was fired by Kennedy as head of the JCS.

One item Bird fails to tell his readers, though, was that McCloy and Dulles had previously worked together while McCloy was High Commissioner in the American Sector of Germany after the war, and Dulles was moved from his Swiss office to Germany.

This is the same McCloy who was supposed to have attended the famous Murchison party on the eve of the assassination.

So you see, Jim, how incredibly divergent opinions can be with regard to McCloy. You ask the question, what better man to serve on the commission, as my response would be exactly, totally, precisely, especially if you were part of the plotting team that assassinated the president.

John

To win in 2008 the Democrats have to find someone who is appealing to those Christians in the Deep South. If they don’t do that, they will be beaten by the Republican candidate who will definitely be chosen to represent these views.

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John,

It has been noted by a great many political observers, including sociology professor G William Domhoff in his several books on the upper "ruling" class in America, that American elections are a total farce, and have been for at least the last three generations. It has been noted for some time now that there is no notable differences between candidates of either party. The joke of the last election was phrased as something like "Who cares who wins the race, when they come out of the same stables?" Or the Skull & Bones dynamic duo. The massive Kerry campaign propoganda began in Iowa, where CFR owners of the newspapers in Des Moines began the assault on the Democrats.

Consequently, I find it very disappointing that you think the "Democrats" find these candidates. Personally, I think they are selected at the Bilderberg Conferences.

Jim,

Great thread. McCloy was another Rockefeller / Bush / Bonesmen valet and messenger boy.

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/betraylp9.htm

Wim

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Two excellent posts back-to-back. If you two are as open-minded as I think you are, you are now ready to read a book by sociologist Donald Gibson titled The Kennedy assassination Cover-Up. In it you will find a good discussion on "the honorable" John J and his Rockefeller buddy "the honorable" Allen Dulles.

And if you should happen to follow this up with the establishment pap book by Kai Bird on McCloy and get as far as McCloy the American High Commissioner in Germany, you might want to ask yourselves why Bird doesn't mention Dulles in this chapter at all. This is strange, as Dulles was re-assigned from his station in Switzerland to work with the OSS in Germany. As McCloy was also an intelligence nut, they clearly would have worked together there. But I think they go back even further than that. Apparently it would not be a wise thing to mention to readers of this book the very, very close connection between these two way before the 1963 murder.

And when you consider that by 1963 they were both VIP's in that curious outfit in NYC called the Council on Foreign Relations (Dulles was a founding member, as was his brother) and that they were both Rockefeller employees for a long time, you may be willing to look at the assassination in this new light. Hope you will read the book. Good luck.

Wrone believes the Z film is genuine. His book has been

discredited by Jim Fetzer, I believe.

Jack

Jack - this may appear to be a zinger and maybe it is, but Fetzer's book didn't do anything but make Wrone's book look good despite Wrone making some silly suppositions like it maybe being Oswald in the doorway of the TSBD in Altgens number 6 photograph. And as far as DelleRosa's site and it being too hot - CT's also got the hell off it because it was getting to be a rabid photo and film alteration site. Just like the train window post you put on this site ... had that of been made on the DelleRosa site, then there would have been a handful of half-wits joined in and started harping about someone being a disinformationist who disagreed with your observation without ever looking to see if what was being said was true or not. On this forum - someone like Tim who has leaned towards the classic gunman figure at least considered the scaling and foreshortening effect between the Murry photo and the Nix film before being so quick to think there was some alteration at play.

As far as Rahn goes - there is an argument that he, nor any LN's can make in their favor and that is over the avulsed bones on the back of Kennedy's head. It's a simple rule of physics that says that when applied force is given to an object that it will avulse the exiting surface in the direction the penetrating force was moving. If we stick our finger through a piece of paper - the paper avulses/pushes outward in the direction that the penetrating force is being applied. The bones on the back of JFK's head were avulsed to the rear, thus the bullet was traveling front to back. The Government dealt with this by ignoring the large hole on the back of JFK's head altogether. Doctor after Doctor mentioned this avulsion to Arlen Specter and Specter quickly moved on as if he had no interest in talking about this wound. The reason was quite simple - the more detail that is given to it - the more one has top address why such a wound is not seen on the autopsy photographs. When the HSCA took up their investigation - they were given a falsified report saying that no Bethesda personnel claimed to have seen this large hole in the back of the President's head. It was only after the HSCA had finished their work that it was discovered that in fact each and every person at Bethesda who saw Kennedy's head wound had described the large hole as being there. Tanenbaum talked about this on one of the most recent MWKK series. By someone offering that falsified report to the HSCA - they were able to make it appear as if all the Dallas medical personnel and witnesses had merely been mistaken about this large avulsed wound on the back of JFK's head. That sentiment of everyone being mistaken about the wound still lives on today even though the mortician who prepared Kennedy's body said that he had to place a rubber pad over the large hole in the back of Kennedy's skull so the head would look right as it laid on the coffin's pillow. Most LNr's don't even know these things and some do, but have an agenda for pretending they don't know them or dismissing them altogether. People can argue most of the evidence on the JFK assassination and come up with some kind of spin in their favor, but the one area that takes nothing but faith to make the lone assassin scenario look plausible is over the ignoring the large avulsed wound to the back of JFK's head. Now to do this they have to assume that all those at JFK's autopsy and the mortician that prepared the body for burial were also mistaken. Mass mistakeness is what they must call it. Taken such a position only makes them look foolish to about everyone but themselves.

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Bill,

In your post you refer more than once to the "hole", or large "hole" in the back of the President's head. I was wondering, in your opinion, if the appearance of this hole came about merely because of the avulsed bone structure, or do you think this could also have been formed by the loss of actual bone (Harper fragment, e.g.) and brain and blood matter ejecta from that wound? I am thinking that if you believe there was no actual loss of skull bone, blood, or brain matter, then you would need to explain what it may have been that struck Hargis so forcefully, and a few others, I believe. Just checking to see if I have got some of the facts straight. Thanks for any response.

John

John,

Sad to say, you have not asked the eminent scholar and professional historian David Wrone to participate in your discussions. As he has published a dazzling book on the subject of the Zapruder film, chock full of incredible insights and utterly remarkable comments on the attempts of other less distinguished authors to make sense of the assassination, and as he believes there is a certain definite body of conclusions that can be drawn from a careful study of the assassination (I've forgotten his exact phraseology), and as he did not bother to explain or go into exactly what this body of evidence suggests, I think it would be a good idea to invite him here and explain his ideas in more detail.

If memory serves, a scholar with the curious name of Kerry Edwards (!) has suggested in a posting on this forum that the Wrone book is one of the best books ever written on the assassination, and went into spasms of ecstacy describing Wrone's phenomenal achievement.

If Posner and Rahn, why not Wrone?

One of the most interesting passages in your book concerns a journalists called Dick Billings. When writing about Operation Tilt you say: “In addition to Bayo, Pawley, Martino and Robertson, the expedition was accompanied by Dick Billings, a LIFE staff writer obtained through the Pawley-Luce connection. Billings would later head the LIFE team in Dallas which purchased the Zapruder film of the Kennedy assassination, as well as Marina Oswald's story rights (neither of which saw public exposure under LIFE auspices). Much later. Billings was hired by Robert Blakey, the second head of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, as editorial director for the final report of the HSCA.”

Over the last couple of days I have been doing some research into Billings. Did you know he played an important role in the Jim Garrison investigation?

In November 1966 Jim Garrison told a journalist, David Chandler, that he had important information on the assassination of JFK. Chandler told Billings and in January 1967, the Life Magazine reporter arranged a meeting with Garrison. Billings told Garrison that the top management at Life had concluded that Kennedy's assassination had been a conspiracy and that "his investigation was moving in the right direction". Billings suggested that he worked closely with Garrison. According to Garrison "The magazine would be able to provide me with technical assistance, and we could develop a mutual exchange of information".

Garrison agreed to this deal and Billings was introduced to staff member, Tom Bethal. In his diary Bethal reported: "In general, I feel that Billings and I share a similar position about the Warren Report. He does not believe that there was a conspiracy on the part of the government, the Warren Commission or the FBI to conceal the truth, but that a probability exists that they simply did not uncover the whole truth." Billings managed to persuade Bethal that Clay Shaw was innocent. Later it was revealed by W. Penn Jones that "Bethal made the entire trial plan, a complete list of State's witnesses and their expected testimony and other materials available to the Shaw defense team."

In September, 1967, Billings told Jim Garrison that Life Magazine was no longer willing to work with him in the investigation. Billings claimed that this was because he had come to the conclusion that he had links to organized crime. Soon afterwards, Life began a smear campaign against Garrison. It was reported that Garrison had been given money by an unnamed "New Orleans mobster".

As you say Billings was recruited by G. Robert Blakey, chief counsel of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, as editorial director. Later Billings and Blakey were the co-authors of The Plot to Kill the President (1981). In the book Billings and Blakey argue that there was a conspiracy to kill John F. Kennedy. They came to the conclusion that the Mafia boss, Carlos Marcello, organized the assassination.

I think this adds further evidence to my belief that in the 1970s the CIA was involved in trying to link organized crime with the assassination of JFK.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has anymore information on Billings. 

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbillings.htm

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Gentlemen,

I am surprised that in reviewing the articulate and intelligent discussion that follows about the Billings role in the Garrison investigation and the JFK Assassination there is not a single mention of the blue-blood (someone does use the term) behind Life magazine at that time. An hour or two with the google software would reveal a great deal about C D Jackson, a Cold Warrior of the highest importance during the transformation of the old OSS into the CIA, and a very important player of their psychological warfare programs.

From this perspective, Billings was CIA all the way, and was sent down to infiltrate the Garrison investigation, which he did, and left when he accomplished his goal.

In my view, Billings was a relative insider compared to Blakey, who was a total lackey directed by Billings in the writing of the HSCA report, and directed by others in his overall activities. Yes, the CIA would lie to him. Another patsy.

In thinking about Salandria's thoughts about the force that could kill Kennedy and leave the government helpless to do anything about it, I cannot believe that force to be the CIA. As Billings infiltrated the Garrison investigation, I believe the force that killed Kennedy infiltrated the us government and was heavily present at the formation of Truman's national security state. C D Jackson was a part of that organization and that force, and it was not the CIA.

James Stewart Martin described that force in his book "All Honorable Men", published in 1950. The force that resisted his efforts to decartelize the German industries during the military occupation he described as coming from within the us government, but not of it, using different channels to achieve their goal. You might want to take a look at the last chapter of his book.

Consequently, I look at books dealing with Castro, Oswald, etc. as way off the mark. In my opinion, C D Jackson and his crowd killed Kennedy, the so-called "Invisible Government". After all, they owned the CIA.

What a wonderful idea for a topic!

As a person who may have been born a little "down in the dumps" I like books that have a touch of wild hilarity about them, for they are the best pick-me-up for me.

My three favorite in this genre are Gogol's Dead Souls, Twain's Huckleberry Finn and Gilbert Keith Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday. Each has some very zany and charming moments, and I think the wild chase scene in Thursday may be the best of all.

The novel that most affected my life, however, was not a novel, but Freud's Interpretation of Dreams. Completely changed everything for me. But the most human of writers in this field is for me Harry Guntrip.

But for a down in the dumps person like me, when the mood comes on, it's Charles Dickens' David Copperfield.

John,

Gibson's two books on the assassinatin are best understood if they are read in the order of their composition. The second is a continuation of the first.

Regarding the Dallas PD, I think there can be no doubt that they are part of the Dallas end of the plot. I believe LBJ spent most of November, 1963, at his ranch to help co-ordinate this. I disagree with Gibson on his take of Jesse Curry. I believe Curry was involved on the Dallas end. Common sense tells me that if a president of the United States were killed in a city of which I was the Chief of Police, I would be sweating bullets until something were resolved. The fact that Curry drove important people (LBJ?) out to Love Field and hung around for the swearing-in cermony (you can see him behind Johnson's upraised hand) tells me that he was an insider before 11/22 or he was told on that date what was happening. Surely by that Sunday, when he received that alledged phone call from the Mayor which prevented him from being a witness to Oswald's assassination, he knew what was going on.

I believe the Dallas PD manufactured the fake evidence on Oswald, including the fake Hidell ID and the fake photos. Also, Ruby was let in to the basement by the police. I think the honest cops were monitored to insure their silence. The Jean Hill/Bill Sloan book "The Last Dissenting Witness", for example, suggests that two policemen who were willing to talk about the assassination (this was in the late 80's) were added to the mysterious deaths list.

Regarding the mysterious turn onto Houston, I don't know if I have ever read of the true explanation of who ordered it. I know Lawson's name comes up a lot in discussions about it. If Lawson were a private investigator in upstate New York, someone might want to find out if he ever worked for Nelson Rockefeller, who had his own intelligence network.

It appears to me that this conspiracy was planned by people who had decades of intelligence work, including psychological warfare, behind them. The Curry part in all this is mere obfuscation, from my perspective.

Even if I were correct in my guesswork, none of this detracts from the enormous strides Prof Gibson has made in publishing his two books. I hope enough people on this forum can add their insights and research experience to the ideas Gibson has begun to explore.

Hello,

My name is John Korienek, Jr, and I became aware of this forum by viewing John Simkin's excellent postings on both the JFKResearch and JFKLancer websites in the states.

I have lived mostly in the Chicago, Illinois area except for the time that I spent in the Air Force in the mid 60's and a year that I spent in Europe after getting a degree in English Literature at the University of Illinois in Chicago.

I currently take a course or two every now and then at the college of Dupage, just west of Chicago. The college offered a "Who Killed Kennedy" course with the Jim Marrs "Crossfire" as the textbook.

My views on the assassination generally change somewhat, coinciding with what new information I am able to gather through my selective reading and intelligent forums like this one.

Anyone who has definite views on the powers behind the assassination and would like to bounce them off someone, I would be glad to hear from you.

John

I would like to add to the list of possible groups made by David Simkin who may have reason to kill President Kennedy. This would be the eastern Establishment, or simply the Establishment, of the United States. This view was expressed as long as ten years ago by the american sociologist Donald Gibson in his book "Battling Wall Street". His answer is so obvious that I'm very surprised that no one has come forward before 1994 to express this viewpoint.

Before the publication of this book I would have thought the biggest red herring would have been the Mafia-cia angle. Now it would appear the largest waste of time was the Cuban-cia angle.

About five years later Gibson published "The Kennedy Assassination Cover-up". In my opinion these are the two best books ever written on the case. I am simply astonished that the american research communities haven't picked up on these valuable books, or that people haven't researched the hell out of the subjects Gibson points to in his books. I believe his two books have the answers.

I would like to add the two Donald Gibson books to your list:"Battling Wall Street" and "The Kennedy Assassination Cover-Up".

Anyone who can connect the dots (as the author himself apparently cannot) will have understood a great deal about the assassination.

Gentlemen,

If I understand the position correctly that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed JFK, this means that a lone, probably demented gunman, without any other human involvement or connections or contacts, probably brought or smuggled into the Texas School Book Depository, possibly on the very morning of the assassination, a rifle with a clip holding three (or possibly four) bullets, and displaying an amazing proficiency, was able to do an awful lot of damage in a remarkably short space of time using a remarkable bullet that no doctor, including all the government controlled autopsy doctors, would admit to being able to do without itself being seriously damaged. I hope this is a fair assessment.

I just have two questions for the Warren Commission apologists.

1)The so-called Secret Service agents that no one denies seeing on the Grassy Knoll need to be explained somehow. Supposing Oswald, acting alone, had no knowledge of these people, their presence still needs to be explained in some sort of credible, rational way that would make sense to a fairly reasonable person that no conspiracy was involved. I may have trouble expressing myself, but I hope that my meaning is understood.

2)The Oswald sightings are a fact. They are not sombody's claims. He was seen by any number of people any number of times firing a Mannlicher-Carcano at a shooting range. The real Lee Harvey Oswald was somewhere else at the time. I now have read somewhere that the real Oswald might have driven the car in the test drive, but most researchers will claim he still didn't know how to drive then. There were other Oswald sightings, the most written about concerning Sylvia Odio. She claims, along with her sister, that three men, including Leon Oswald, visited their apartment when he was supposedly on his way to Mexico. At the same time. Supposing the real Oswald knew nothing of all this, anyone studying this case needs to be able to explain to themself and others what is going on here without involving the element of conspiracy

Again, the easiest explanation for all this is that somebody or organization had involved LHO in a plot that he was totally unaware of. I would be truly interested if anybody at all would be willing to answer these two questions honestly and intelligently without being in any way evasive.