Mike Williams
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We can't really use those of a stock 61 LCC (which I will dig up and post) because the limo had heavy heating and duel-air-conditioning systems, plus heavy steel plates added to the front and rear side rails, so that SS-100-X weighed 7,800 lbs. without passengers.
Thank you, Pamela. I would appreciate the specs for the basic model. It is astonishing that information about the Limo's acceleration rate is still being withheld.
You might appreciate my response to this man after being refused information -- I said, a President died in your car. The case is still not solved. You need all the help you can get.
Truer words Pamela!
Its amazing that they still withhold that info.....
Mike
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Mike,
I'm not good with math so I'll spell it out for you... you have two bullet fragments, a cone missing a base and a base missing a cone, that makes one bullet.
Mr. EISENBERG - Can you determine whether this bullet fragment, 567; and 569 are portions of the originally same bullet?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - You cannot?
Mr. FRAZIER - There is not enough of the two fragments in unmutilated condition to determine whether or not the fragments actually fit together.
However, it was determined that there is no area on one fragment, such as 567, which would overlap a corresponding area on the base section of 569, so that they could be parts of one bullet, and then, of course, they could be parts of separate bullets.
Are you kidding me?? How many bullets fired that day in Dealey Plaza had the base ripped off?
Don
Hey Don,
guess one could start with the NPIC (National Photographic Interpretation Center) work. They figured (based on the Zapruder
Film) 5+ shots fired in DP. Dough Horne (who worked with Roland Zavada during the same investigation) interviewed two hand picked film specialists/employees who worked with the Zapruder film the weekend of the assassination (11/22 thru 11/24)
Interesting material for the uninititated.
David,
I agree not only that but, there is nothing that proved that both of those fragments were from the same bullet. I think that is a conclusion that one can never be certain about without assumption.
Good point, that took GRIT son GRIT!
Just teasing ya!
Mike
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Everything you wanted to know about the Carcano.
http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/
http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/c2766.html
http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carc...es/evidence.gif
This rifle became of international interest when President John F Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, was assassinated on 22 November 1963. An example of the Mannlicher-Carcano was originally presumed to have been used by the assassin since one was found nearby, but later detail investigations have thrown doubt on this. The Museum's example was produced in 1940 at the Italian arsenal at Terni. In 1938, with the introduction of the 7.35 mm cartridge, a new short rifle and two patterns of carbines chambered for this cartridge were introduced, all with fixed sights. The entrance of Italy into World War 2 in 1940, with insufficient supplies of ammunition at hand, caused second thoughts on the use of another cartridge and that same year the 6.5 mm was reintroduced, and Carcanos manufactured from that date were again chambered for the 6.5 mm cartridge.
<a href="http://" target="_blank"></a>
Bill;
What does one have when they have 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of a lake with concrete blocks tied to their legs?
A. "A good start"!
The Stevens information is certainly that, however not unlike any subject matter, one should certainly expound on their knowledge if they truly want to understand it.
http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/carcano.htm
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-116929226.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQ...53/ai_n19313646
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl21-e.htm
http://www.il91.it/Sito/introduzione/IntroduzioneSito.htm
And then again, there is my closet which has six of the various makes and models to plunder through.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do I understand your testimony to be that this rifle is as accurate as the current American military rifles?
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes. As far as we can determine from bench-rest firing.
Mr. EISENBERG. Would you consider that to be a high degree of accuracy?
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes, the weapon is quite accurate. For most small arms, we discover that the round- to-round dispersion is of the order of three-tenths of a mil. We have run into some unusual ones, however, which give us higher values, but very few which give us smaller values, except in selected lots of ammunition.
Mr. McCLOY. You are talking about the present military rifle--will you designate it?
Mr. SIMMONS. The M-14.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle
The M14 also provides the basis for the M21 and M25 sniper rifles.
It would appear that few here have appreciation for one of our newest posters to this forum who can provide much needed "debunking" when it comes to weapons; ballistics; and marksmanship.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as15-e.htm
In general, the M14 was a comtroversial weapon. It had the accuracy and range of the "old time" military rifles, but was too long, heavy and lacked the automatic fire firepower of a true assault rifle, often required in the modern close combat. Nevertheless, it was a reliable and powerful weapon, often favored by users for high lethality, long range and good penetration - features much appreciated by US soldiers during recent operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Who knows, we may actually convert this to the one and only true "Educational Forum" after all.
Thanks for the kind words Tom. The 21 and 25 are incredible weapons. I have always preferred the m40 series bolt guns, but the 21 and 25 is hard to beat.
For real bang for the buck wrap up on an m82....the big 50!
Mike
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David Hume:
Truth springs from argument amongst friends.
Pay special attention to that one Mike
No question in my mind! Im glad to have gone from nemesis to friend!
Mike
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The sling on the MC rifle attributed to LHO, is a subject that I've had some interest in, yet can't seem to find much on.
From what I understand, the sling did not come with the rifle from Klines, but was added on afterwards.
I understand it has been identified as a standard issue holster for a USAF sidearm, though that's from memory and I can't back it up with docs, yet.
In any case, I was wondering if anybody has done any research into the sling, and what it is and where it came from?
Thanks,
BK
http://www.jfkresearch.com/Gallery_10/page...flecuserial.htm
Check out CE 139, photo 3 -
Stock of rifle, with sling clamp.
Also note the initials carved in stock - VEDR ?
http://www.jfkresearch.com/Gallery_8/pages/013.htm
http://www.jfkresearch.com/Gallery_8/pages/014.htm
What to make of this, if anything?
USAF sidearm holster Pat. 2,819,830 Patented by Norris N. Murray, March 6, 1956
U.S. Military Holsters & Pistol Cartridge Boxes ( Edward Scott Meadows, 1987, p. 376)
BK
Warren Report: p. 553- 554:
The Rifle
The rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository shortly after the assassination was a bolt-action, clip-fed, military rifle, 40.2 inches long and 8 pounds in weight.7 Inscribed on the rifle were various markings, including the words "CAL. 6.5," "MADE ITALY," "TERNI," and "ROCCA"; the numerals "1940" and "40"; the serial number C2766; the letters "R-E," "PG," and "TNI"; the figure of a crown; and several other barely decipherable letters and numbers.8 The rifle bore a very inexpensive Japanese four-power sight, stamped "4 x 18 COATED," "ORDNANCE OPTICS INC.," "HOLLYWOOD CALIFORNIA," and "MADE IN JAPAN'' 9
and a sling consisting of two leather straps, one of
which had a broad patch, which apparently had been inserted on the rifle and cut to length.
The sling was not a standard rifle sling, but appeared to be a musical instrument strap or a sling from a carrying case or camera bag.11 A basic purpose of a rifle sling is to enable the rifleman to steady his grip, by wrapping the arm into the sling in a prescribed manner. The sling on the rifle was too short to use in the normal way, but might have served to provide some additional steadiness. 12
Bill,
When teaching to fire the M-16 one removes the sling at the butt stock and creates a loop that goes around the forearm, the sling is then adjusted to the length that allows the rifle to be LOCKED or snapped in to the shoulder.
A different method in hunting rifles is to wrap the sling around your arm, with it fastened at both ends. We actually see this demonstrated in "Enemy at the Gate"
If the sling on this rifle was so short I am unsure just how much value that would have to steady the rifle, and further given the very short range of the shots, I am not all all inclined to believe this would even be needed.
Mike
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That "reverse image" printed photo (flipped) has served the purpose of confusing many, for a lot of times as well as for a long, long time.
Thomas,
You need to stop selling that idea of a reversed image, to me it sounds like one of those "Whim Wham Scams."
The real damage to the skull is explained in the photo below.
Don
Don I fear you are in woefully over your depth!
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Mike,
I'm not good with math so I'll spell it out for you... you have two bullet fragments, a cone missing a base and a base missing a cone, that makes one bullet.
Mr. EISENBERG - Can you determine whether this bullet fragment, 567; and 569 are portions of the originally same bullet?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - You cannot?
Mr. FRAZIER - There is not enough of the two fragments in unmutilated condition to determine whether or not the fragments actually fit together.
However, it was determined that there is no area on one fragment, such as 567, which would overlap a corresponding area on the base section of 569, so that they could be parts of one bullet, and then, of course, they could be parts of separate bullets.
Are you kidding me?? How many bullets fired that day in Dealey Plaza had the base ripped off?
Don
Don,
And I will spell it out for you. Just because we have one nose of a bullet, and one tail of a bullet does not make them automatically from the same bullet. So wheres the proof that they are?
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Bill,
Yes I must say that business with the seats about made me nauseous. I do find the "location of all the documents" a bit curious myself. As for the Napoleon "relic" I hope having it in her hands is just an expression.....I would rather hope she left it in the Jar!
I would like to know what remains of the WW2 memorabilia.
Mike
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This is "evidence"? It sounded like a firecracker is the oldest analogy in the book.
As for it being a signal. Thats pretty ridiculous. If someone were to have thrown a firecracker, it would not only serve as a signal to the shooters, but a warning to the prey.
"Ok heres what were gonna do guys, when he gets within range I'm gonna toss a firecracker to signal the beginning of the shooting, of course you guys will have to be quick because this firecracker may cause the target to duck and the Limo to evade and head for cover" How dumb would that be?
Karl of course you realize that the very testimony you cite tends to eliminate the firecracker right? Something striking the street would be more related to a bullet as would "sparks".
I have never heard of a firecracker "striking the street" and have yet to see one make "sparks".
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What does the man on the fire escape prove exactly?
It proves that something below him startled him and his reaction is to get up out of the way.
So your basis for this is your own observation?Yep. Who is this Frazier person you speak of? If he were any good he would have noted that the base was ripped from the cone upon impact. These two fragments are from one bullet fired from the 2nd floor of the Dal-Tex building.
IMO, the Carcano bullet that hit the chrome trim is a "Set-Up the Patsy Bullet."
Don
Don,
I hardly think that the man on the fire escape jumping up could be used as evidence of where the shot came from. I think thats asking to assume a a lot.
Frazier was the FBI analyst who handled much of the ballistic evidence. I am surprised (not really) that you are discussing the ballistic evidence and do not even know who this man is, and apparently you also have no idea what he said. Give him a read, so as to bring yourself up to speed.
So Frazier was unable to determine if these two were from the same projectile, yet you have managed that without ever having handled the evidence. Can you show me your testing that proves these were from a single projectile? If not can you at least be honest and state that this is yet another assumption?
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/garden/2...amp;oref=slogin
In a Father's Clutter, Historical Oddities
Including Oswald's letters to his mother and USMC target practice score book, a TSBD brick and a swath of leather from Kennedy's limo? Another example of ARRB missing items that should have been deposited in the JFK Assassination Records Collection at NARA. BK
New York Times
August 21, 2008
By KASSIE BRACKEN and ERIK OLSENENGLEWOOD, N.J.
KNEELING on the dining room floor, Evan Lattimer sliced open a cardboard box and braced herself for what might be inside: a lock of human hair, a half-smoked cigar, an arcane torture device, perhaps? Her face broke into a smile as she peeled away the bubble wrap: a dinosaur egg.
"You just never knew with Dad," she said.
When her father, John Lattimer, died in May of 2007 at the age of 92, Ms. Lattimer knew her inheritance would include more than the family tea set. Dr. Lattimer, a prominent urologist at Columbia University, was also a renowned collector of relics, many of which might be considered quirky or even macabre.
Over the course of seven decades he amassed more than 3,000 objects that ranged in age from a few years to tens of millions of years. "He was like a classic Renaissance collector," said Tony Perrottet, a writer specializing in historical mysteries who spent time with Dr. Lattimer before his death. "Anything and everything could turn up in the collection, from Charles Lindbergh's goggles to a bearskin coat that belonged to Custer."
Several of the relics had a certain notoriety, like the bloodstained collar that Abraham Lincoln wore the night he was shot, or the severed penis that may or may not have belonged to Napoleon Bonaparte. For decades, though, much of the collection has been sitting in boxes and disorganized piles in the 30-room Lattimer home in this suburb of Manhattan.
Now his daughter is undertaking a task that even a Smithsonian curator might find daunting: researching and cataloging every item, in a kind of extreme version of the trial many people go through upon inheriting the contents of a parent's household. It is an effort that has occupied her for the past year, and a labor of love, albeit a strained one.
"I sleep about three to five hours a night," said Ms. Lattimer, 59, who is preparing to auction off part of the collection this fall. "This is all I do."
"Our lives have been so much about his things," she added, speaking of herself and her two brothers. The artifacts were much more than a hobby for their father, she said. "They were part of him."
By way of example, she recalled several history lessons inspired by artifacts like Lee Harvey Oswald's letters. When the siblings were adolescents in the 1960s, she said, "he'd put us at the correct distance and angle" to fire a rifle at a cadaver from the barn roof, to demonstrate the lone gunman theory, she said. "He'd say, 'Well, there's your target, see how you do,' and we could do it when we were kids!"
Her brothers, Douglas Gary, 57, and Jon, 55, who both live in Hawaii and are doctors, have distanced themselves from the attention the collection has attracted. (Neither returned calls asking for comment.) Cataloging it has fallen to Ms. Lattimer, an artist who relocated from the Midwest three years ago when her father became ill, and who has stayed to care for her 91-year-old mother, Jamie.
"If it were up to me, I'd keep the collection intact," she said. But each item, no matter whether it is priceless to her, has a declared value to the I.R.S., and, according to her lawyer, is subject to an inheritance tax of about 53 percent. The family, she said, has entrusted her to choose what to keep and what to sell.
A large group of eager collectors awaits her decisions. "Even before he died they were hovering," she said. Within a week of her father's death, she received an unsolicited call from someone offering $120,000 for a cyanide canister associated with the Nazi leader Hermann Göring.
More recently, another caller offered $100,000 for the ostensible Napoleonic phallus. The offer stunned one of her brothers, who had suggested she throw it away.
"We had absolutely no concept of how much things might be worth," she said. "How do you rate something that's one of a kind?"
Especially something whose authenticity is in question, as is the case with that particular relic. Ms. Lattimer said she believes its provenance is "ironclad," traceable to the surgeon who performed Napoleon's autopsy. According to Mr. Perrottet, who spent more than a year researching the relic's history (a chapter of his new book, "Napoleon's Privates," is devoted to it), it is "possible" that the phallus was removed during the autopsy, but there is no absolute proof. (Dr. Lattimer, he said, bought the item at a Paris auction for $3,000 in 1977 to remove it from public scrutiny; as a urologist, he had taken offense at the salacious attention it was attracting. Dr. Lattimer had the item X-rayed, Mr. Perrottet said, and determined that it was a human penis, but the French government has not agreed to provide a sample of Napoleon's DNA for comparison.)
The better-known items in the collection, like a sword that belonged to Ethan Allen now on display at the Fort Ticonderoga Museum, have been authenticated, Ms. Lattimer said. But although Dr. Lattimer would usually strive to ensure provenance, she added, that was sometimes less important to him than simply owning an object. As a result, some items in the collection lack the rigorous vetting that might ensure lofty valuations at auction or, for that matter, enable Ms. Lattimer to understand what she has.
As she moved through the estate's many piles, she said, she was often perplexed. Was the tear-shape metal object on the third floor a piece of junk, or was it historically significant?
"It might be Orville Wright's," she said, speculating that it was a model for a part of a biplane wing. "Dad had a few Wright brothers things, but we don't know. There's no documentation to go with it."
Even more frustrating, she might find a note with no object attached to it: "There'd be a file folder and it said, 'Lent out to man on Long Island with deep voice.' Who is that? Where should I go to find that?" she asked.
Ms. Lattimer reached over a stack of Kennedy-era newspapers and a small box containing a cigar that once belonged to W. C. Fields, toward a pair of black metal boots. "I have no idea what these are for," she said. "I think maybe they were used during the Middle Ages to torture someone. You'd put their feet in them and then place them close to the fire."
She learned one important lesson early on: just because an article looks like junk doesn't mean it is. Bothered by the sight of three connected chairs with a broken leg, she took action. "I put them out on the street and went back into the house," she said. Twenty minutes later, once they were gone, it struck her that they might have been seats from the Ford's Theater in Washington.
Dr. Lattimer's collecting initially centered on his childhood passions, according to his daughter: aviation, ships and Native American culture. His earliest acquisitions were pilot helmets, arrowheads and relics from the U.S.S. Constitution, a ship he'd built a model of as a boy.
As his career flourished and he found himself interested in moments of historical importance, however, he began to collect objects associated with them.
After World War II, when he was in his early 30s, he served as a medical officer at the Nuremberg war tribunals, treating several Nazis who were held as prisoners, including Göring. Two hours before his scheduled execution, Göring killed himself with cyanide. Years later, the canister containing the poison became part of the Lattimer collection, along with other Göring memorabilia, including a pair of boxer shorts.
A decade later, he became chairman of Columbia University's urology department, a post he held in 1972, when the Kennedy family asked Dr. Lattimer to examine X-rays, photographs and other materials from John F. Kennedy's autopsy. His conclusion that Oswald was the sole shooter was front-page news, and his research stimulated a burst of collecting that included the acquisition of a brick from the Texas School Book Depository, a swatch of leather from Kennedy's car in Dallas and Lee Harvey Oswald's letters to his mother and Marine Corps target-practice score book.
Ms. Lattimer believes her father began to see some of the objects associated with these events as a means of solving the mysteries surrounding them. Lurking in the mundane details of everyday things, he believed, might be overlooked clues that could shed light on a pressing question. "Certainly with the Kennedy things he was questing after truth," Ms. Lattimer said. "He really wanted to know how that happened."
Dr. Lattimer was known to avoid self-reflection, but some who knew him speculate that there was something more behind his drive to collect. "He was an only child of two only children and grew up in a very isolated, lonely place," said Mr. Perrottet. "It's often said that the collecting passion is an unwillingness to let go of the past. For him, I think it was an attempt to hold onto his past. He had a long, rich past, and he wasn't immune to the solitariness of human existence."
He acquired items through auctions, dealers and, later, directly from their original owners. Ms. Lattimer recalls her father receiving calls from his war pals' widows, offering him their World War II mementos. Once his collection became well known, some of his patients began contributing to it. "Actresses would come to his office with something of theirs in a paper grocery bag and say, 'Hey, doc, you want this?' " his daughter said. One such patient, Greta Garbo, gave Dr. Lattimer her driver's license, among other things.
In November, some of the Lincoln-related objects will be put on the block in a Gettysburg, Pa., sale being run by Heritage Auction Galleries of Dallas. The event is generating excitement among collectors and historians.
"In the Lincoln world we don't see great collections come through very often," said Daniel Weinberg, a dealer in Lincoln artifacts and the owner of the Abraham Lincoln Book Shop in Chicago, who has a personal interest in several of the items. "The prices for the good pieces will be fairly strong."
The proceeds will go toward estate taxes, Ms. Lattimer said, and will allow her to hold on to a few of the items that offer some lasting connection to her father.
"I'm inclined to keep Lincoln's shaving mirror," she said, referring to a small mirror that hangs on the wall. "Dad used to show it around during Christmas. It's odd that I'd keep it because I'm not keeping the inkwell that wrote the Emancipation Proclamation."
Most of the items destined for auctions — there will be others, still unscheduled, after the Lincoln one — have been sorted and shipped. But Ms. Lattimer is still sifting through relics that the auction houses weren't interested in. Though family and friends have encouraged her to hire helpers, she has resisted; she feels uniquely qualified for the job. "I'll come across a cuff link, and I will remember seeing a matching cuff link years ago in a different room," she explained.
Ultimately, Ms. Lattimer said, she finds a sense of peace in cataloging her family's strange legacy. "I'm glad that he never had to do this," she said, her voice cracking slightly. "But it's been so intriguing that it loses its aura of sadness, you know... it becomes more a collaboration with him."
Bill,
What an interesting collection of stuff. I myself could have done without hearing about Napoleon Bonerparts....but....yanno.
I have always collected small things from history. The sight from an mg-42 machine gun, authentic WW2 patches etc. But is sounds like he had an amazing collection....although I would not want to file and sort it!
Thanks for posting that Bill
Mike
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Duncan,
One Word!
MASTER!
That was great Duncan thanks!
Mike
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Try working with all the information, not just cherrypickin
Well i just say this: the people that i mentioned, i think they can differentiate a hole from a crack. Remember: A nurse, a FBI agent, a SS- agent, a congressman...are the imbecile...??? I don't think so...there WAS a hole, and the windshield was switched...remember the CE-Carcano...a fake...remember the CE single bullet---fake...why should one believe, that the CE windshield is NOT a fake...it is a fake...
Then could you demonstrate the hole in the Parkland photo for me? In any photo?
Are you saying that the limp stopped on the way to Parkland and swapped out the glass?
Come on.
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Mike,
The answer to your question was in my post:
Did you know that CE 569 and CE 567 are fragments from the same bullet? CE 569 is the base and CE 567 is the flattened center cone of the bullet. You can see the base was torn from the top portion of the bullet upon impact. The base is flattened more on one side meaning that it hit on an angle.
Don
So your basis for this is your own observation? I think that is pretty remarkable considering Frazier could not even come to that conclusion.
One was determined to the base, and one the nose, but I dont recall reading anything, by someone who actually examined the fragments, that determined they were from the same projectile.
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QUOTE(Thomas H. Purvis @ Aug 20 2008, 10:33 AM)
...Was it one of them "silent bullets" that struck the trim and therefore made no noise whatsoever?
Thomas,
After the shot, JFK stop waving and turned his head to the right. Jackie turned her head to the left. The shot was not silent to witnesses in Dealey Plaza… the man on the fire escape jumped up quickly and others close to the limo heard what sounded like a firecracker in the limo.
Did you know that CE 569 and CE 567 are fragments from the same bullet? CE 569 is the base and CE 567 is the flattened center cone of the bullet. You can see the base was torn from the top portion of the bullet upon impact. The base is flattened more on one side meaning that it hit on an angle. See the pictures below.
What is the comparison in size of a 6.5mm bullet to a .22 bullet?
Don
Don,
First I would have to ask how you come to the conclusion that the two fragments are from the same bullet?
A .22 caliber bullet is about .040 smaller, about 7/8 of an inch shorter and about 130 grains lighter.
What does the man on the fire escape prove exactly?
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NIST issues new reort- Fire took out WTC-7
By DEVLIN BARRETT, Associated Press Writer
GAITHERSBURG, Md. - Federal investigators said Thursday they have solved a mystery of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: the collapse of World Trade Center building 7, a source of long-running conspiracy theories.
The 47-story trapezoid-shaped building sat north of the World Trade Center towers, across Vesey Street in lower Manhattan in New York. On Sept. 11, it was set on fire by falling debris from the burning towers, but skeptics long have argued that fire and debris alone should not have brought down such a big steel-and-concrete structure.
Scientists with the National Institute of Standards and Technology say their three-year investigation of the collapse determined the demise of WTC 7 was actually the first time in the world a fire caused the total failure of a modern skyscraper.
"The reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery," said Dr. Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator on the NIST team.
Investigators also concluded that the collapse of the nearby towers broke the city water main, leaving the sprinkler system in the bottom half of the building without water.
The building has been the subject of a wide range of conspiracy theories for the last seven years, partly because the collapse occurred about seven hours after the twin towers came down. That fueled suspicion that someone intentionally blew up the building in a controlled demolition.
Critics like Mike Berger of the group 9/11 Truth said he wasn't buying the government's explanation.
"Their explanation simply isn't sufficient. We're being lied to," he said, arguing that there is other evidence suggesting explosives were used on the building.
Sunder said his team investigated the possibility that an explosion inside the building brought it down, but found there was no large boom or other noise that would have occurred with such a detonation. Investigators also created a giant computer model of the collapse, based partly on news footage from CBS News, that they say shows that internal column failure brought down the building.
Investigators also ruled out the possibility that the collapse was caused by fires from a substantial amount of diesel fuel that was stored in the building, most of it for generators for the city's emergency operations command center.
The 77-page report concluded that the fatal blow to the building came when the 13th floor collapsed, weakening a critical steel support column that led to catastrophic failure.
"When this critical column buckled due to lack of floor supports, it was the first domino in the chain," said Sunder.
The NIST investigators issued more than a dozen building recommendations as a result of their inquiry, most of which repeat earlier recommendations from their investigation into the collapse of the two large towers.
In both instances, investigators concluded that extreme heat caused some steel beams to lose strength, causing further failures throughout the buildings until the entire structure succumbed.
The recommendations include building skyscrapers with stronger connections and framing systems to resist the effects of thermal expansion, and structural systems designed to prevent damage to one part of a building from spreading to other parts.
No one was killed in the collapse of building 7 because it had been fully evacuated. A new, slightly taller World Trade Center 7 opened in 2006.
A spokesman for the leaseholder of the World Trade Center, developer Larry Silverstein, praised the government's work.
"Hopefully this thorough report puts to rest the various 9/11 conspiracy theories, which dishonor the men and women who lost their lives on that terrible day," said Silverstein spokesman Dara McQuillan.
In discussing the findings, the investigator Sunder acknowledged that some may still not be convinced, but insisted the science behind their findings is "incredibly conclusive."
"The public should really recognize the science is really behind what we have said," he said, adding: "The obvious stares you in the face."
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Peter,
Good article. Of course those with even a micro of common sense would have known that the Government, had it blown 7 by demolition would not have waited 7 hours to do so.
But of course that would require the conspiracy extremists to have a micro of common sense, asking a bit much obviously!
Best to you Peter,
Mike
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Tom,
I wanted to publicly apologize for taunting you about your credibility. It is the only fair thing to do.
Not to diminish my part in that, I would like to say that I had dismissed much of what you had to say not on the evidence you presented, but in my inability at times to decipher your posts. This was my issue and not yours. The fact that I did not understand some of what was written should in no way detract from the facts.
I appreciate the time you have taken to lay out your ideas for me in a systematic fashion. I am still not sure that I agree 100% with everything you propose but your ideas are certainly based on solid research and are extremely thought provoking on my end of the bend.
I hope you will accept this apology, as I look forward to future exchanges!
By the way, in the next few days you will be receiving a gift all the way from FLORIDA. Her name is FAY and you can have her! 3 solid days of torrential rain! Stupidest Hurricane/Tropical storm I have ever seen.....she refuses to leave and is slower than Granny and Jethro.
Salute,
Mike
beware of gifts from strangers. Glad you found your proper place, Sgt Mikey -- carry on
But this gift will wash your car....if it doesn't float it away!
As for finding my proper place, look up David....you'll find me there.
Dismissed.....as always
Mike
but in my inability at times to decipher your posts.
There happens to be an entire topic or two on that matter here. It is by design!
Let's state that I have created boredom to those who actually have little interest in learning, and have hopefully activated a few thought processes as well.
But this gift will wash your car....if it doesn't float it away!
Best Friends (one's we all went to Orlando together with) just prior to Ms. Fay, went to St. Augustine. Wanted us to come along.
Lucked out on that one.
Just got back from my land checking my pond overflow pipes to insure that none are stopped up. Tired of having dams burst out and sending my fish downstream to some other guy.
Apology fully accepted and acknowledged, though not necessary as stated.
So! Accept mine, as it is/was/and has been my MO for shaking out Wannabee's.
Your postings have clearly demonstrated that you are not one of them!
In fact, you just may be one of those few to carry on the factual research until such time as the "FACTS" actually become as prevelent as do the myths.
Tom,
I feel exactly the same way. Apology accepted and acknowledged, by not needed at all.
I know exactly what you mean by the wannabee's, Ive met a few as well.
The only thing I wannabee is a piano player....in a cat house LOL. (I dont play piano!)
My Best,
Mike
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Thomas H. Purvis,
Debra Conway has sent you this email from http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php.
Tom,
You wrote:
"In addition, Lancer was long ago provided with that information relative to CE399. (posted publically on that site) Just that I retained the rights and would not allow them to publish it for free (to me), while they made money off of it."
I'd like to know what you mean by "they made money off it"???
Debra Conway
==================================================================
In event that you sent me a check for being allowed to publish, in your magazine, that information relative to the alteration to the survey data as well as the Vehicle Speed Analysis, it was never received.
Exactly how much is it that you charge for one to receive the Lancer Publication?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-1...tent_283949.htm
The sound stage was set up by JFK Lancer, a group that promotes research into conspiracy theories of the assassination.
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One has a moral obligation to take advantage of all suckers!
Attributed to WC Fields.
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http://culturatti.com/2008/02/16/wanna-kno...lled-jfk-honey/
I would like to add that the book being advertised on that site is being published by J.F.K. Lancer, one step away from self-publishing. The kind of editorial standards at the Lancer, as far as sourcing and establishing facts, will be interested in proving conspiracy.
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh.../etc/links.html
The JFK Lancer
A web site which is a resource for those who want to order assassination related documents and materials. It is a prominent publisher of assassination researcher's work.
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Still upset that some of us are smart enough to insure that you are limited to a single/"one-time only" publishing of information, without any additional rights to reproduce and sell it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501©
Lastly!
In event one is a true 501© Corporation/aka Non-Profit, it merely means that the Corporation is a "not for profit" organization.
Which by the way has no bearing on how much of it's received funds it can pay to the owners/founders of the Corporation and/or it's Officers and or employees. In either dividends and/or salaries, or loan repayments.
Exactly why is it that you think that owning a "Church" is such a good investment?
But what if one proclaimed to be a 501c , non-profit, and was found out to be otherwise? Now I bet that would be interesting to contributors and donors wouldn't ya think Tom?
How very interesting indeed that would be!
I can almost hear it now "Oh were not in it for the profit...were in it for the resources to provide material for researchers....."
Something like that??
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Tom,
I wanted to publicly apologize for taunting you about your credibility. It is the only fair thing to do.
Not to diminish my part in that, I would like to say that I had dismissed much of what you had to say not on the evidence you presented, but in my inability at times to decipher your posts. This was my issue and not yours. The fact that I did not understand some of what was written should in no way detract from the facts.
I appreciate the time you have taken to lay out your ideas for me in a systematic fashion. I am still not sure that I agree 100% with everything you propose but your ideas are certainly based on solid research and are extremely thought provoking on my end of the bend.
I hope you will accept this apology, as I look forward to future exchanges!
By the way, in the next few days you will be receiving a gift all the way from FLORIDA. Her name is FAY and you can have her! 3 solid days of torrential rain! Stupidest Hurricane/Tropical storm I have ever seen.....she refuses to leave and is slower than Granny and Jethro.
Salute,
Mike
beware of gifts from strangers. Glad you found your proper place, Sgt Mikey -- carry on
But this gift will wash your car....if it doesn't float it away!
As for finding my proper place, look up David....you'll find me there.
Dismissed.....as always
Mike
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Duke,
If we look at the ballistics of medium velocity and high velocity projectiles, and their impact energies, and relate that directly to the pressures required to penetrate the trim and steel, there are but 2 conclusions.
A) The damage was caused by a full velocity impact from a .22 or/
It was caused by a less than full velocity impact from virtually any other type of rifle.Even the impact energies created by a .22 magnum would have caused more damage. Its really just that simple.
One does not have to assess every other rifle one just has to eliminate the .22, which would be rather ridiculous for someone to be using in this situation.
I do not believe the damage was existing, but I have not found any photo yet that fully proves this. The picture Robin posted earlier is about as good as it gets, but the area of damage still would not be visible in that photo.
Mike
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http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ancedResults.do
Essays and Journals (4 page hits)
Kennedy Assassination Chronicles, Volume 7, Issue 3 pg 1
Found in: Kennedy Assassination Chronicles
multiple hits in this document
The Fourth Decade, Volume 3, Issue 1 pg 17
Found in: The Fourth Decade
Purvis, who has been corre- sponding with Robert West since 1991, the level of government deceit can now be understood. This is not the first time Mr. West and surveyor, Chester Breneman, have raised
===============================================================================
Mike:
At risk of reopening the "credibility" problem, unless things have changed, I continue to be the only person who has also provided what is virtually indisputable documentation which clearly demonstrates the first ever confirmed indication of alteration of Evidence on the part of the WC.
In addition, Lancer was long ago provided with that information relative to CE399. (posted publically on that site) Just that I retained the rights and would not allow them to publish it for free (to me), while they made money off of it.
Therefore, the fall from grace!
Of course the fact that I do not believe in mythological beings also contributed to the downfall.
*Tripp was the Director of Eastern Operations for US Senator David Boren.
Tom,
I have addresses the credibility issues in another thread. Oh the many that fall from Grace! We can talk about that one! If you would ever like to contact me side bar, mike@lightningstrikerc.com would be a great place!
I am convinced they covered up evidence in many forms, what is so stupid is they appear to have even covered up evidence that made the WC case STRONGER!
Mike
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Tom,
I wanted to publicly apologize for taunting you about your credibility. It is the only fair thing to do.
Not to diminish my part in that, I would like to say that I had dismissed much of what you had to say not on the evidence you presented, but in my inability at times to decipher your posts. This was my issue and not yours. The fact that I did not understand some of what was written should in no way detract from the facts.
I appreciate the time you have taken to lay out your ideas for me in a systematic fashion. I am still not sure that I agree 100% with everything you propose but your ideas are certainly based on solid research and are extremely thought provoking on my end of the bend.
I hope you will accept this apology, as I look forward to future exchanges!
By the way, in the next few days you will be receiving a gift all the way from FLORIDA. Her name is FAY and you can have her! 3 solid days of torrential rain! Stupidest Hurricane/Tropical storm I have ever seen.....she refuses to leave and is slower than Granny and Jethro.
Salute,
Mike
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In effect, I am saying that if it could have been done, Bill would have did it, i'm 100& positive on this.
If it can be done, why has no one did it?....why does someone not attempt it?.
I live in Scotland, so obviously I can't do the test.
I openly invite here on this forum, anyone who goes to Dallas to try to replicate Arnold, but remember to shove the human stand in's head approx 1 ft lower than we see "Arnold" in Moorman.
Arnold's son said he was 5ft 10
Duncan
Gary Mack has replicated Arnold's image in the past when testing it, so your remark is only based on your lack of knowledge as to what has been done.
I am in British Columbia, thus my desire to make a special trip to Dallas, Texas to show another one of your half-baked claims is in error isn't at the top of my list, unless of course you'll pay for it.
Its unfortunate that you are not intelligent enough to address Mike's point, then no one would need to go to Dallas. You show a guy under the the red arrow who if you were honest and unbiased ... you'd admit that this persons feet would fall very close to the horizontal line on the wall that you use for Arnold while claiming it makes Arnold look too short to be human.
You'd also admit that you can see how much this guy has shrunk when compared to the people closer to the wall in the same photo and then apply that knowledge to someone like Arnold who was standing back by the fence. But one has to either be intelligent enough to follow this rule of perspective and if he or she is, then they have to be honest enough to acknowledge what it implies. You have not shown yourself to be a candidate to do this.
Bill Miller
Hey Wild Bill, ya got caught, accept the defeat and move on --
What IS unfortunate is this: neither you or Gary will post the replicated image -- nothing to do with intelligence, son.... Simple common sense, which seems to be severly lacking in your Lone Nut/SBT camp. We, however, aren't fooled. Where's a .gif animation when you need one, eh?
I have finally figured it out. David places Bill firmly in the LN/SBT camp, this is a huge indication of the detachment with reality that some chose to live in.
Come on David, SON, you have to get on the Varsity! Kick one in and join the TEAM LOL!! (my Healey impersonation) Not bad huh?
Your village called David....do you want the message?
Mike
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Mark; Mike; and any others who have interest in facts.
Time to close the door on this relatively simple issue, so attached is a short summary.
Along with a nice "picture" for those who seem to only understand this method of research.
Applicable is:
A. There is no "Magic"!
B. Failure to understand the evidence has no bearing on the validity of that evidence. As a general rule, it merely means that one does not understand the evidence.
C. Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear.
D. If one will consistantly ask the correct question of the wrong person and the incorrect question of the right person, the issues will most likely remain confused.
But of course, we all know that I was merely sent here in order to confuse everyone (with the facts)!
So, if there are any further questions in regards to the first shot, please send them to Langly.
Langley told me to call YOU!
Thanks a bunch Tom for the info.
Salute,
Mike
Priceless JFK History at the Minnesota State Fair
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Pamela,
Interesting tidbit. The Bush 41 car. I had read that Reagan's would be the last, and all post would be destroyed by the SS for security. Its good to know we have at least one more!
Mike