Mike Williams

Simply, Yes, yes he will be.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

I gotta tell you you schleps on the left SUREEEEEEEEEEEEE know how to pick em!

HEH.

Mike

I recall at least 3 sources who saw a THROUGH AND THROUGH hole. One reporter

even said he stuck a pencil thru the hole. Nick Principe, Washington policeman

on the White House detail, reported he saw the hole when the limo came back to

the WH garage from Texas. Reliable eyewitnesses trump doctored photos.

Jack

http://library.uta.edu/findingAids/AR407.jsp

Jack,

First the photos were given me by Richard Van Nood, a hole supporter. Second...your witness NEVER said he stuck a pencil in the hole, he said he could have. It also would go to their credit if they had all identified the hole in the same place.

You can cry alteration about anything that does not support your ideals, however that is a cop out. Just as it is with the Zapruder BS.

Now...How do you reconcile the fact that the damage in this photo matches the damage in the CE350 photo taken in the White House garage at 1am clearly showing no hole?

Is there anything that is not altered??

Mike

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/russia-re...8139076806.html

Russian warplanes bombed Georgian targets yesterday, the Tbilisi government said, after Georgian forces surrounded and shelled the capital of the breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Amid spiralling tensions, reports said Russian forces on peacekeeping duty in South Ossetia had been killed and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin warned his country would retaliate against Georgia's offensive in the Caucasus trouble spot.

At least 15 civilians were killed in the fighting and Georgian shelling and air raids on the separatist capital Tskhinvali, reports and South Ossetian officials said.

The European Union and the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) led international calls for a ceasefire in South Ossetia - which broke away from Tbilisi's control in the early 1990s - but the United Nations failed to agree on a Russian statement urging Georgia and the rebels to halt the fighting.

Georgia accuses Russia of seeking to take over South Ossetia.

A witness saw Georgian forces fire more than a dozen missiles towards South Ossetia from a position inside Georgia and witnessed helicopters and hundreds of soldiers in trucks moving towards the region.

A large plume of smoke rose from Tskhinvali shortly after dawn and explosions and heavy weapons continued regularly as they had all night.

The Russian military said a barracks for Russian peacekeepers in Tskhinvali was hit and that some troops were killed, Russia's Interfax news agency reported.

"As a result of the Georgian artillery shelling there are fatalities among the peacekeepers," a representative of the Russian command was quoted as saying.

Three Russian Sukhoi-24 aircraft entered Georgian airspace, a Georgian interior ministry spokesman told Agence France-Presse.

"One of them dropped two bombs close to the police station in Kareli," spokesman Shota Utiashvili said, referring to a Georgian village near South Ossetia.

There were also reports of a Russian air raid near Gori, the main Georgian city near South Ossetia.

In announcing that Georgia's operation had succeeded, President Mikheil Saakashvili said Russian bombers had attacked "peaceful" Georgian cities.

"Most of South Ossetia's territory is liberated and is controlled by Georgia," Saakashvili said in televised comments.

He said Russia was conducting flights over Tskhinvali and added: "I demand Russia stop bombardment of peaceful Georgian cities."

But Putin, the former Russian president who is now its influential prime minister, condemned Georgia's "aggressive actions" and said his country would have to retaliate.

"It is regrettable that on the day before the opening of the Olympic Games, the Georgian authorities have undertaken aggressive actions in South Ossetia," said Putin in Beijing.

"They have in effect begun hostilities using tanks and artillery," he added.

"It is sad, but this will provoke retaliatory measures."

Putin said he had discussed the crisis with Chinese leaders and with US President George Bush.

"Everybody agrees - nobody wants to see a war."

A Kremlin spokesman said President Dmitry Medvedev was considering "emergency measures" in response to the Georgian attack.

Russia called a special meeting of the UN Security Council which expressed concern over the fighting but could not agree on a Russian statement urging the warring sides to end the violence and return to the negotiating table.

The United States called on both sides to stop the fighting.

"We're urging Moscow to press South Ossetia's de facto leaders to stop firing. We're urging Tbilisi to maintain restraint," Gonzalo Gallegos, a US State Department spokesman, told reporters.

South Ossetian leader Eduard Kokoity said earlier that his forces still controlled Tskhinvali.

"We fully control our capital. The battle is continuing on the outskirts of Tskhinvali," Kokoity was quoted as saying by Interfax. "The situation is completely under control."

In recent months, Moscow and Tbilisi have sparred repeatedly over South Ossetia and another breakaway Georgian region, Abkhazia.

Georgia's pro-Western government accuses Moscow of seeking to annex the two regions and derail its efforts to join the transatlantic NATO alliance, which Russia vehemently opposes.

The Georgian offensive came within just hours of reports that Georgia and South Ossetia agreed to meet today for talks and the declaration of a unilateral ceasefire by the Georgian president.

Revealing timing, Maggie, with the US and its Georgian puppets seeking to use the imminent Olympics as a wedge to be driven between Russia and China, the two key components of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO).

The thinking seems to be as follows: Chinese fears that their great showpiece will be ruined is calculated to induce caution or paralysis in Peking, thus depriving Russia of support in its response to the US-sponsored invasion of South Ossetia. Russia, Washington appears to be gambling, will thus be left on its lonesome to deal with this attack.

The US game plan would appear to be, first, to provoke Russian military intervention, then permit a brief truce, followed by a massive escalation – almost certainly a false flag attack of considerable cost in human life - calculated to force reluctant and opposed European states into backing Georgia’s full integration into NATO.

The US, we can now be certain, will launch a comprehensive assault on the SCO elsewhere, too, from Tibet to Xinjiang and beyond, not excluding SCO allies in Africa and the Americas – and Iran. In short, the last, desperate, throw of US military-imperialism has begun.

Paul

That's funny, to me it looks like a last, desperate, throw of Russian military-imperialism.

Wasn't Georgia a former captive state in the USSR for 40 or 50 years?

Didn't Georgia only gain its independence in 1991, two years after the infamous Soviet massacre of Georgian anti-Soviet protesters on April 9, 1989?

I like the comment of (a seemingly disappointed) Vladimir Putin that this battle would result in Russian retaliation.

This is quite rich coming from the former head of the KGB, whose former dissident member, Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko, mysteriously died of polonium poisoning in London a couple of years ago.

And what is a "Russian peacekeeper"?

When I think of Russia, I think of Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn and gulags, not peacekeepers.

China doesn't need the fallout of this dust-up to embarass it during the Olympics.

Its own human rights and censorship record (both of which must be a complete mystery to NBC) hang like heavy smog over the Olympics.

Way to go you guys...I just had to spend a half hour on the phone with Kathy Becket explaining that this was not the Georgia that is just north of Florida...

You guys scared her half to death!

Nice....real Nice....

HAHAHAHAHA,

Mike

Nothing going on here but a bunch of paranoid old CT fools going off on nothing in a childish attempt at...well lets just say its childish.

Don't let the the screen door slap you in the azz on your way out to greener pastures.

(Craig Lamson)

But Craig,

That's exactly what your little gang desires. That the CTs all leave.

Sorry- Mission Accomplished-not!

Why would we want you to leave? You all provide the entertainment value and also the wonders of showing the CT community at its finest. This thread is a perfect example of the latter.

It seems it's the CT's that want the playground for themself. How much easier to spew disinformation without all of those nasty people who want to throw FACTS into the mix.

David has made his threat a number of times. I say good riddence if thats what he wants. Have at. As it stands he's not much more than the little boy who cried wolf.

Threat what threat? You back in that fuzzy logic world of trailer photograhy again?

After 10+ years on alt.conspiracy.jfk and I'm the little boy who cried wolf? ROTFLMFAO! I've not met, conversed with or debated anyone capable of defending WCR final conclusions, that includes this forum. Further, when you get published concerning Z-film alteration or non-alteration matters, and attain some measure of credibility, give me a call - we'll talk. Till then, you and Wild Bill remain on the sidelines....

The WCR is simply, a convenient lie. Now I understand how and WHY you steadfastly deny this. Moreover, we understand why 911 NYC & Wash film-photo issues (some justified, some non-justified) rankle those very same Lone Nut folks who defend the WCR...

Now why don't you show the world and me this threat: Lamson quote

"David has made his threat..."

rest assure I KNOW you know who Len Brazil is, you were cc'd the same email I (by accident) was. Len Brazil was also an addressee. Perhaps Len will fill you in. Think Roland Zavada's rewrite of his famous report. A topic of interest on this forum 2.5 years ago

Someone would really use being published in TGZFH as a testament to their stature? :lol:

I think were it me Divot.....I would hide in shame, but surely you are right, your stature as a researcher proceeds you SIR.....

This has to be one of the strangest places on the Internet.....but whatever....

Jack,

I assume since you included my name in the title you had something to say in regard to that?

Or are you just dancing on the pedestal again?

Mike

Hi, Mike...are you the same Mike Williams who cohosts the Len Brazil and Mike Williams Show

on another network? Maybe just some "other" Mike Williams? Could be...I know two guys named

MIKE WILLIAMS. Bought a piece of land from one of them. Common name, I assume not a

nom de web.

Jack

http://library.uta.edu/findingAids/AR407.jsp

Jack,

I have never heard of anything called Len Brazil and Mike Williams Show.

Heh, yeah common enough that my Doctors office not only has 11 Mike Williams, but one with my EXACT Birthdate!

Then theres Dad....Mike Williams Sr.

Oh yeah and a man who used to play for the San Diego Chargers.....

The gynecologist in Maryland...

My folks could have had the decency to name me John Doe, at least THAT would have been original!

Best to ya Jack,

Mike

In conclusion.

There was no hole in the glass, the artifact that has been labeled a hole is even to small to have been a hole from a rifle bullet, unless of course some half crazed assassin out there was shooting at the Limo with a .177 caliber pellet gun, which I might add is still to LARGE to have created the hole in the parkland photo.

Physical evidence beats witness testimony any day.

I am sure there will be those who will say “well we are looking at this on an angle.” I do not care how you turn it you can not make a 1/8” hole into a 3/8” hole. Not gonna happen within the realm of logic.

Best to all,

Mike

For a very different view:

Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams. Murder From Within (Santa Barbara, California: 1974): Extract from Chapter 3, “Execution”:

The Fifth Shot

When Mrs. Kennedy was about to climb out of the Presidential limousine and Governor Connolly pulled himself up and looked over into the front seat, another shot was fired. That bullet hit the windshield of the limousine (88). The damage can clearly be seen in one of Altgens' photographs (Fig. 3-9).

The bullet hole was noted by reporter Richard Dudman (89). Sgt. Stavis Ellis described it: "Well, it was a hole. You could put a pencil through it. I showed it to Officer Chaney out there at the hospital [Parkland]…you could take a regular standard writing pencil - wood pencil - and stick it through there…and some Secret Service agent run up there and said, 'That's no bullet hole, that's a fragment.' It wasn't a damn fragment; it was a hole” (90).

There was a bullet scar on the curb near the triple underpass (91). By projecting a line, from the curb, through the windshield of the limousine at that point in time, it aligns near the centre of the road.

The line of trajectory points to a source within the motorcade.

Because of the steep angle - 45 degrees - of the front windshield, this shot must have been fired at or about ground level from some point behind the limousine. A shot fired from above the motorcade, such as from the sixth floor of the depository, would have hit either the windshield or the curb, not both.

Footnotes:

(88) Zapruder frame number 330.

(89) Charles Roberts, op. cit., p. 17.

(90) Ellis, loc. cit.

(91) Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, “Shaneyfelt Exhibit No. 26. ‘FBI report, dated July 17, 1964, concerning investigation into curb mark on Main Street in Dallas,’” in Hearings, v. 21, pp. 472-474.

Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, “Shaneyfelt Exhibit No. 27. ‘Letter from the FBI to the Commission, dated August 12, 1964, concerning investigation into curb mark on Main Street in Dallas,’” in Hearings, v. 21, pp. 475-477.

Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, “Shaneyfelt Exhibit No. 29-30. ‘Charts prepared by Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt showing locations of curb mark on Main Street in Dallas,’” in Hearings, v. 21, pp. 478-480.

Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, “’Shaneyfelt Exhibit No. 34. ‘Piece of curb containing lead markings removed from Main Street in Dallas,’” in Hearings, v. 21, p. 482.

According to Shaneyfelt, “These metal smears [on the curb] were spectographically determined to be essentially lead with a trace of antimony. No copper was found. The absence of copper precludes the possibility that the mark on the curbing section was made by an unmutilated military full metal-jacketed bullet such as the bullet from Governor Connally’s stretcher.” [Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, “Testimony of Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt [dated Sept. 1, 1964],” in Hearings, v. 15, p. 700.

Paul,

I would think if there were a hole, there would be some evidence of it in some of the photos at least. Even in the Altgens photo there is no easily visible hole.

What interests me here is the idea that the shot had come from in the motorcade itself, which I would have to add is nearly impossible.

Before I would spend any further effort on investigating trajectory, etc, I would have to find something to substantiate the hole even exists.

Best to you Paul,

Mike

This has to be one of the strangest places on the Internet.....but whatever....

Jack,

I assume since you included my name in the title you had something to say in regard to that?

Or are you just dancing on the pedestal again?

Mike

And on we go....

I contacted Cadillac, Automotive Restorations Inc. (which actually did a 61 Lincoln JFK Limo in 1987), and a member of Ebay Motors who was selling a 1961 Lincoln Rearview mirror.

All three of these sources verified the 9 7/8” Length, the 2” Height, and the 7/8” Front to back thickness.

From there I began to scale the photo that shows the alleged hole.

Lets take a look at that photo with my measure marks in place.

As we can see the most reliable measurement in this photo is the height of the 2” rear view mirror, which in this photo on my computer measures 16mm. This makes the scale of the 1mm hole equal about 1/8 inch.

1/8 inch equals .125 inches. Significantly smaller than the .264 of the Carcano, and half the size of the expected hole from a .22 caliber rifle. For those fans of the .30 caliber series such as the .308 and 30-06, the difference is even more significant.

We would expect to see a hole from an MC bullet leave a hole no smaller than 1/8 of an inch larger than that of the projectile size, or say something in the range of 3/8”. The Carcano bullet is .264, but for the sake of ease in measuring lest make it a smaller .250 or ¼ inch even. So the very smallest hole a .264 MC would leave is 3/8, which I have also replicated to scale in this photo for your ease of comparison.

Now let us compare the photo at Parkland with the known exhibit CE350. The photos of CE 350 were taken by the secret service after midnight, or in the early morning hours of 23NOV63. I would assume the parkland photos have to be authentic, as I hardly believe there was time to alter the glass and have it replaced and other such foolishness before the limo arrived at Parkland.

Here is CE350

And for comparison the PL photo.

I have marked each photo with colors to indicate the same area in general in each photo. I did this because one photo was taken from front, and one from back, at varied distances.

Note the Dark area in the CE350 photo and how it corresponds with the so called “translucent” spot in the PL photo.

In conclusion.

There was no hole in the glass, the artifact that has been labeled a hole is even to small to have been a hole from a rifle bullet, unless of course some half crazed assassin out there was shooting at the Limo with a .177 caliber pellet gun, which I might add is still to LARGE to have created the hole in the parkland photo.

Physical evidence beats witness testimony any day.

I am sure there will be those who will say “well we are looking at this on an angle.” I do not care how you turn it you can not make a 1/8” hole into a 3/8” hole. Not gonna happen within the realm of logic.

Best to all,

Mike

A Hole in One!

During part of my thread “First shot, First hit”(Lancer) there was some discussion about the shot coming through the windshield and striking JFK in the throat. I have for some time believed this to be a theoretical quirk, and have not held much belief in it.

None the less it keeps resurfacing, as a point of contention, so I decided to take a closer look at this hole.

This is the original photograph from which the point originates.

The photo is further blown up to this.

And last but not least to this with the alleged bullet hole marked.

After consulting 3 separate sources, I have determined that the rear view mirror dimensions are 9 7/8” inches wide, 2” High and 7/8” front to back thickness.

My own determination was 10” wide by using the other parts of the limo as reference. But I felt that this measurement was not accurate enough, thus I consulted outside sources.

To be continued......

Don,

Yes you were correct....the Key points went right over his widdle head.

Someone ego is only surpassed by their lack of ballistics knowledge...

Keep up the good work.

The only combat this schmuck ever saw was on the TV.

Mike

Posted by tkcollier in Humor, Politics.

Tags: Hilary, McCain, Obama

add a comment

We, in Ireland, can’t figure out why people are even bothering to hold an election in the United States.

On one side, you have a pants wearing lawyer, married to a lawyer who can’t keep his pants on, who just lost a long and heated primary against a lawyer who goes to the wrong church who is married to yet another lawyer who doesn’t even like the country her husband wants to run.

Now…on the other side, you have a nice old war hero whose name starts with the appropriate Mc terminology, married to a good looking younger woman who owns a beer distributorship.

What in Lord’s name are you lads thinking over there in the colonies?

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Thank You so very much for the only post to come out of this Forum in ages that makes any sense at all! I love the way you Irish Think.....I may change my name to McWilliams!

Best,

Mike

As John pointed out “The whole idea of this forum is to encourage dialogue between people with different views” one of the rules that he established to encourage this dialogue is that posters make reasonable efforts to document their claims.

-You claimed “ there are many similar photos showing a small fire in the same location…”

- You claimed that even on the south face there were only small fires

- Fetzer and now you claimed that you found a “replacement photo” and sent it to him for publication. The original photo was supposed to show “WTC-7…undamaged except for a modest fire at street level” so logically the replacement should show an undamaged south façade post north tower collapse.

All I’m asking you to do is make the required "reasonable" effort to document your claims. If you have good reason not to post the photo explain what it is. But to be quite frank I don’t believe you found such a photo because I don’t believe such a photo exists. Especially after being embarrassed by having to admit error in the other thread why wouldn’t you or Fetzer want the forum to see the photo? Rather you posted the Cushman photo which even you acknowledged is too low res to see if there is any damage.

I predict we'll never see said photo nor be given a good reason for not posting it.

Your crocodile tears about “harassment” are rubbish if you’d provided a reasonable answer to a reasonable question I wouldn’t have pressed you. I wasn’t asking you about some intimate personal secret. Also not long ago you were quite insistent that us “debunkers” take your silly truth/false quiz accusing us of being “afraid” to do so and then ignored my reply when I did.

Len,

I completely agree. White ran his mouth, and as usual can not support his claims. Typical of the species. No evidence to put up, and to ignorant to shut up.

Jack,

Of course thank you for correcting my spelling error. I would have assumed you were smart enough to know what I was meaning, I over estimated you, and I certainly apologize for throwing you such confusion.

As for the rest of your post....its just your basic general idiocy.

But the fools of the world do indeed keep the other fools of the world interested.

Please explain to me JACK, and stop avoiding the issue, as to how those smoke clouds could be more dense the further away they move from your ridiculous point of origin.

I wont be holding my breath for a reply.

Mike

And people wonder why conspiracy researchers get such a bad name.......

Well son, we do know Jack White and his photo credentials, your photo interp credentials on the other hand, now THAT, is another story...

So, no one is over or under estimating you Sgt. Mikey.... things must be slow at Lancer these day's, eh? You did however, get off to a bad start here mixing it up with Tom Purvis, we all live and learn, eh?

Regarding the topic at hand, your expertise and experience in high rise collapse (and photos of same) would be much appreciated, you do you have a resume, yes? Or are you simply rendering another opinion? Let's not avoid THAT issue, eh?

Seems Lone Nuts are versatile and experienced in so much these day's, simply boggles the mind.... now if they only had credentials to go with their opinons -- just might carry some weight... Carry on!

Interesting to hear from someone who provides nothing on any topic.

Why in the world would I have to be a photo expert to offer an opinion about the smoke in those photos? Are they geometrically challenging? Certainly not.

A for Purvis, I learned long ago never to argue with a fool, folks watching may not know the difference.

But at any rate Davey, carry on, and post more useless nothingness that you contribute so well.

You dont have to be a photo expert to see which way the smoke goes, you just have to apply common sense, something so very lacking in most of the alteration's crowd.

So now Do you have something to offer here David....or are you just to continue flapping your useless gob?

Mike

of course I do Sgt. Mikey... you can stop leading with your chin son, this is an international forum, either you know the material or you don't.... You're sounding strangely like Wild *BM* Bill Miller, did you attend his Lancer photo interp classes? Just curious... and I do take Josiah Thompson's posts in this thread seriously. Unlike you son, he's a known commodity with proven investigative-research skills.... you on the other hand are simply peanut gallery prattle.

David,

I figured just as much. Still nothing worthwhile to offer.....ever.... When it comes to chin music you are a one man band.

But hey, I was not disappointed.

I also value Josiah's comments and opinions, I am very glad you do as well. Perhaps you do have some common sense.

Mike

Jack,

Of course thank you for correcting my spelling error. I would have assumed you were smart enough to know what I was meaning, I over estimated you, and I certainly apologize for throwing you such confusion.

As for the rest of your post....its just your basic general idiocy.

But the fools of the world do indeed keep the other fools of the world interested.

Please explain to me JACK, and stop avoiding the issue, as to how those smoke clouds could be more dense the further away they move from your ridiculous point of origin.

I wont be holding my breath for a reply.

Mike

And people wonder why conspiracy researchers get such a bad name.......

Well son, we do know Jack White and his photo credentials, your photo interp credentials on the other hand, now THAT, is another story...

So, no one is over or under estimating you Sgt. Mikey.... things must be slow at Lancer these day's, eh? You did however, get off to a bad start here mixing it up with Tom Purvis, we all live and learn, eh?

Regarding the topic at hand, your expertise and experience in high rise collapse (and photos of same) would be much appreciated, you do you have a resume, yes? Or are you simply rendering another opinion? Let's not avoid THAT issue, eh?

Seems Lone Nuts are versatile and experienced in so much these day's, simply boggles the mind.... now if they only had credentials to go with their opinons -- just might carry some weight... Carry on!

Interesting to hear from someone who provides nothing on any topic.

Why in the world would I have to be a photo expert to offer an opinion about the smoke in those photos? Are they geometrically challenging? Certainly not.

A for Purvis, I learned long ago never to argue with a fool, folks watching may not know the difference.

But at any rate Davey, carry on, and post more useless nothingness that you contribute so well.

You dont have to be a photo expert to see which way the smoke goes, you just have to apply common sense, something so very lacking in most of the alteration's crowd.

So now Do you have something to offer here David....or are you just to continue flapping your useless gob?

Mike

Jack,

Of course thank you for correcting my spelling error. I would have assumed you were smart enough to know what I was meaning, I over estimated you, and I certainly apologize for throwing you such confusion.

As for the rest of your post....its just your basic general idiocy.

But the fools of the world do indeed keep the other fools of the world interested.

Please explain to me JACK, and stop avoiding the issue, as to how those smoke clouds could be more dense the further away they move from your ridiculous point of origin.

I wont be holding my breath for a reply.

Mike

And people wonder why conspiracy researchers get such a bad name.......

Two factors influence the flight of a Frisbee, gravity and air. Gravity acts on all objects the same way, accelerating their mass towards the center of the Earth at 10 meters/second. Once in the air, lift and angular momentum act on the Frisbee giving it a ballet-type performance. Lift is generated by the Frisbee's shaped surfaces as it passes through the air. Maintaining a positive angle of attack, the air moving over the top of the Frisbee flows faster than the air moving underneath it.

Under the Bernoulli Principle, there is then a lower air pressure on top of the Frisbee than beneath it. The difference in pressure causes the Frisbee to rise or lift. This is the same principle that allows planes to take off, fly and land. Another significant factor in the Frisbee's lift is Newton's Third Law which states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The Frisbee forces air down (action) and the air forces the Frisbee upward (reaction). The air is deflected downward by the Frisbee's tilt, or angle of attack.

Spinning the Frisbee when it is thrown, or giving it angular momentum (gyroscopic inertia), provides it with stability. Angular momentum is a property of any spinning mass. Throwing a Frisbee without any spin allows it to tumble to the ground. The momentum of the spin also gives it orientational stability, allowing the Frisbee to receive a steady lift from the air as it passes through it. The faster the Frisbee spins, the greater its stability.

I hardly think smoke has the surface area to create the angle of attack needed for lift. Smoke and its particles thus lift because of the super heated air they hold. They disburse and become less dense the further they move from the source, Just as indicated in the photo I posted.

The evidence of this of course is in the fact that the plumes we see are more dense and smaller near the south face of 7, indicating origin, however if these plumes originated at 6 and were caught in a vortex forcing them against 7, 7 itself would be disbursing them, clearly not the case.

Mike

For an understanding of the explosion of Building Six, go to:

http://www.911studies.com/911photostudies115.htm

and subsequent pages.

Even showing this photo of the huge hole in the Vesey Street side

of Building Six before either tower fell is not enough for those who

choose not to see truth, for whatever reason.

Jack

Jack,

As anyone can see the plumes of smoke closest to the south face of 7 are much smaller and thicker than the ones further out towards 6. This is without doubt the point of origin. Anyone can see that without video.

My question is this in reply to the convertible analogy. How fast do you have to be going to create that vortex? I myself have had a Jeep Wrangler for most of my life, and living in Florida spend many a day with the top down......

Judging by the plumes of smoke moving south once they rose about the roof tops, I would say the winds that day were not very significant. 10 mph range....most likely.

Hardly enough to invoke the type of vortex you are suggesting.

Mike

General wind direction - there have been some better models on how the wind would be effected by the buildings, but can't locate at moment.

Peter,

Thanks for that graphic. It shows that smoke should be traveling from building 7 to building 6 not vice versa. Of course I do know there would be some issue with wind blockage between the buildings, however it also does explain why we see the smoke in that photo lifting higher as it moves away from the 7.

I am updating the photo to show wind direction with a red arrow.

Mike

Now at Aulis 911 website...

Jack

Jack,

I certainly dont mean any disrespect, but I do notice that that page you posted was headed with "Jack Whites 911 studies"

How can I give this weight and how can anyone give this study weight, when you seem to have difficulty determining which way smoke is coming out of a building?

Mike

The "smoke" mystery is solved. It is from the explosion and fire at Building Six

across the street.

Jack

Jack sorry thats not correct. Note the photo below.

Notice how compact the smoke is next to the building (indicated in a green oval).

Then note how much larger the plumes further away (indicated by the yellow oval)

The blue arrow indicates the point of origin of those plumes. I believe this is building 7.

Also of note is the very top of the photo, if in fact the smoke were being pushed up against the building with the blue arrow the plume would be higher on that side.

Best,

Mike

I would love to learn more about JTR. It has always been an interest, but something I have never pursued.

Best,

Mike

Tom,

Actually Arnie (his given name not Arnold) was my Grand Fathers Brother. Also a Green Beret, served in Korea and Vietnam. Retired and went to work for the US Border patrol. I just thought given your situation you may have crossed his path, he is a rather unforgettable kind of guy.

Duncan,

Not I gotta take my big hat off to you THAT was funny!!!

Mike

Stephen,

I would keep my eye on those campfire girls as well....they are notoriously vicious!

Best,

Mike