David Von Pein

26 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

I am trying to understand how you define the term “evidence” as you brought it up.   Or perhaps, more accurately, what things do you believe are the evidence in the RFK case which proves he was murdered?   I would think the autopsy report.   Would you tend to agree?

The best evidence for "murder" in the RFK case would be the many many witnesses who saw Senator Kennedy being shot multiple times.

But why would you even bring up the RFK murder in this discussion about the death of Marilyn Monroe? The two deaths aren't remotely similar in nature. And yet this post of yours seems to be implying that those two deaths are similar. ~shrug~

1 minute ago, Cory Santos said:

So you are not going to answer my questions then?

You seriously want to know what "evidence" exists to show that RFK was "murdered"?

Is such a silly discussion really warranted?

25 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Ah, so was RFK murdered, David?  In your opinion and if so based on what “evidence”?

WTF?! You're obviously just playing around now. Because nobody (especially an individual named Cory A. Santos, Sr., Esq.) could possibly think the death of Marilyn Monroe and the gunshot death of Robert Francis Kennedy are equal in the "evidence of murder" department.

51 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

David, try to catch up to conversation. Read what I wrote above.

I did. And you said nothing in either of your previous two posts in this thread that comes even close to being "evidence" to show that Marilyn Monroe was murdered.

FYI / FWIW....

Some newspaper front pages following Marilyn's death in Aug. '62....

Click to enlarge....

Just now, Cory Santos said:

I have no evidence that she was. So your assumption is really misplaced.

But when it comes to the topic of Marilyn Monroe's death, you think you've got enough "evidence" to boldly make this claim:

"Arguing Marilyn was murdered, and she was..." -- C. Santos

Incredible.

10 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Arguing Marilyn was murdered, and she was, is the starting point to fix a terrible historical wrong that claims she committed suicide, which she didn’t.

I suppose you believe Dorothy Kilgallen was murdered too, right?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / Oswald's Changing Alibi

Related Links.....

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http://jfk-archives / "Prayer Man" And Other Assorted Topics

http://jfk-archives / Lee Oswald's Whereabouts At 12:30 PM On 11/22/63

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4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

David,

Just curious... what is the error in "Pein's" (as a possessive)?

"Pein" is not my last name.

2 hours ago, Ed LeDoux said:

Well, how things have changed.

What's Pein's [sic] excuse now[?]

What's changed?

7 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

What are your thoughts on the manhole cover? That whole deal plus the fact that there are photographs of the hole in the ground and people screwing around with it reminds me of the Ambassador Hotel pantry door, which was enough to convince Bugliosi of a conspiracy in the RFK case.   

I think you're probably referring to the alleged "bullet" that Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers (allegedly) found and picked up in the grass just across from the Depository. Is that correct? If not, I apologize in advance for this link, which is all about the alleged "Walthers Bullet" (which, of course, was not a "bullet" at all):

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-927.html

3 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

So then... What you're saying is he burned his notes AND the first draft of the report and what is left is the THIRD draft of the RECORD of the autopsy. That's what I thought. He burned the first two. I presume the report he had at home was destroyed for some other reason. Like it needed to be changed.

Not exactly. Humes burned ONE draft of the autopsy report and ONE set of bloody notes (from which, I assume, portions of the final autopsy report came). He said he re-wrote the notes "word for word" on fresh paper.

I'm surprised that CTers aren't screaming more about the fact that Humes' re-written notes have apparently never seen the light of day either. I don't recall having ever seen them at any rate. Has anyone here seen them?

39 minutes ago, Karl Hilliard said:

There were no torso x-rays of JFK that were submitted into the Warren Report or anywhere that I have seen. I cannot claim that none were taken.

From the Clark Panel Report....

EXAMINATION OF X-RAY FILMS:
The films submitted included: an anteroposterior film of the skull (#1), two left lateral views of the skull taken in slightly different projections (#2 and 3), three views of a group of three separate bony fragments from the skull (#4, 5, and 6), two anteroposterior views of the thoracolumbar region of the trunk (#7 and 11), one anteroposterior view of the right hemithorax, shoulder, and upper arm (#8), one anteroposterior view of the chest (#9), one anteroposterior view of the left hemithorax, shoulder, and upper arm (#10), one anteroposterior view of the lower femurs and knees (#12), one anteroposterior view of the pelvis (#13) and one anteroposterior view of the upper legs (#14).

2 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said:

Blood stains? This was a logical and sensible reason?

Yes. It most certainly was.

But to clarify....

It was not the autopsy report that was stained with JFK's blood. Only Humes' autopsy notes had blood on them.

41 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

I believe he roasted his notes on the old chestnut fire also, yes?

Yes, Dr. Humes did burn his original autopsy notes in his home fireplace on 11/24/63. And the reason why he burned those notes is a very logical and sensible reason, as Dr. Humes himself explained in his HSCA testimony on September 7, 1978 (at 1 HSCA 330)....

DR. HUMES -- "The original notes which were stained with the blood of our late President, I felt, were inappropriate to retain to turn in to anyone in that condition. I felt that people with some peculiar ideas about the value of that type of material, they might fall into their hands. I sat down and word for word copied what I had on fresh paper."

MR. CORNWELL -- "And then destroyed them?"

DR. HUMES -- "Destroyed the ones that were stained with the President's blood."

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Related discussion from September 2010:

JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID -- "Autopsy report number one: Burned by Humes and testified to by him before the ARRB. He said it three times and it's in the transcript."

DAVID VON PEIN SAID -- "Dr. Humes admitted to the Warren Commission in 1964 that he burned the first draft of the autopsy report [2 H 373]. So we certainly didn't have to wait until Humes' 1996 ARRB testimony to learn about that particular burning episode. And the very fact that Dr. Humes admitted to burning a draft of the autopsy report is a very good sign that that burning was not done with CONSPIRATORIAL intent or with the thought of a COVER-UP in Dr. Humes' mind. For Pete sake, if Humes had been part of a cover-up and/or conspiracy, the last thing in the world he would have ADMITTED to the Warren Commission is that he was burning autopsy papers in his home fireplace. Get real, Jim."

4 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said:

David...You have already commented that you believe the statements of one of the country's [possibly the world's] foremost forensic pathologists is that of a buffoon...a kook...and a loon---

Do you mean Dr. Wecht?

If so, I don't think I've ever specifically referred to the former Allegheny County Medical Examiner as "a buffoon, a kook, and a loon". But, yes, I certainly disagree with Dr. Wecht about several things regarding the JFK murder case.

4 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said:

If there were upper torso X-rays of JFK please link to this as I am not aware.

Check out the final report of the 1968 Clark Panel....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-1968-clark-panel-report.html

4 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

What is an autopsy surgeon? Is there such a thing? Pathologists?

Yes, the autopsy physicians were, indeed, "pathologists". But they have also been referred to as "surgeons" as well....including here (twice) on page 60 of the Warren Report.

4 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

I believe the only confirmation of this [i.e., the autopsy doctors looking for bullets inside JFK's body] is Humes' 3rd attempt at his report as the first two were destroyed for some reason.

I'm not aware of any THIRD attempt by Dr. Humes at writing the final autopsy report. I only know of two such efforts by Humes, which was due to the fact that the first draft of the autopsy report contained some errors, which an irritated Dr. Humes attempted to clarify (at least in part) during his ARRB testimony session in February of 1996:

DR. JAMES J. HUMES -- Well, it [the first draft of the autopsy report] may have had errors in spelling or I don't know what was the matter with it, or whether I even ever did that. I don't know. I can't recall. I absolutely can't recall, and I apologize for that. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. I didn't want anything to remain that some squirrel would grab on and make whatever use that they might. Now, whether you felt that was reasonable or not, I don't know. But it doesn't make any difference because that was my decision and mine alone. Nobody else's.

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And as for any "confirmation" of the autopsy doctors physically searching for bullets inside President Kennedy's body, we have that confirmation in Dr. Humes' WC testimony  (at 2 H 364)....

DR. JAMES J. HUMES -- Before the arrival of Colonel Finck, we had made X-rays of the head, neck and torso of the President, and the upper portions of his major extremities, or both his upper and lower extremities. At Colonel Finck's suggestion, we then completed the X-ray examination by X-raying the President's body in toto, and those X-rays are available.

ARLEN SPECTER -- What did those X-rays disclose with respect to the possible presence of a missile in the President's body?

DR. HUMES -- They showed no evidence of a missile in the President's body at any point. And these were examined by ourselves and by the radiologist, who assisted us in this endeavor.
 

2 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

I would ask you, David, why don't you believe that the bullet in Parkland is from Kennedy's back wound...?

That would be impossible since neither JFK nor his stretcher was ever located in the area of Parkland where the bullet was found on Nov. 22.

2 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

and the pieces in the limo are from Connally being hit by a separate bullet hitting his wrist...

Some doctors have stated that Connally's wrist would have sustained more damage if that wrist had been struck by a separate bullet that had not gone through the neck of John Kennedy first.

Although I'm sure that conspiracists won't have any trouble finding some medical professionals of their own that will say something to the contrary. Because as everybody here knows, there are plenty of opinions to go around in this case.

(And thank you, Matthew, for the opening comments in your previous post.)

16 minutes ago, Karl Hilliard said:

Something that is not looked for... will not be found-------

So you think the autopsy surgeons didn't even look for any bullets in JFK's body?

You'd better think again.

NARA photo of windshield:

https://preview.catalog.archives.gov/id/305143

This is good news about the NextGen of NARA. I only hope that the JFK Assassination audio material will be part of the "NextGen" of digitized content. Denis Morissette contacted NARA more than three years ago and received what seemed to be an encouraging reply about the coming release of "Record Group No. 272" (JFKA-related items).

Here's what NARA told Denis Morissette in early 2019:

”We do have on our Branch's work plan for this fiscal year an intention to digitize the audio recordings of the Warren Commission collection (NARA RG # 272), but outside of that we do not have current plans to systematically digitize other JFK audio collections."

Here are some of the items I found when I did a search of the new "NextGen" NARA (beta) Catalog:

https://www.archives.gov/findingaid/stat/discovery/272

https://catalog.archives.gov/search?typeOfMaterials=Textual Records&availableOnline=true&recordGroupNumber=272

Here's Denis' EF thread from 2019:

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

Who came up with the SBT? Was it a forensic ballistic expert or a lawyer?

The SBT pretty much presents itself as the truth. There's really no need for any one person to "come up with it" at all.

Why is this so, you ask?

Because of all these things I mentioned two days ago:

1. The alignment of the two limo victims at the time of the shooting;

2. The location of the only known shooter in Dealey Plaza (in the TSBD, on the sixth floor, in the southeast corner window);

3. The fact that no bullets were found in JFK's body;

4. The fact that a whole bullet which positively came out of the gun that was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD was found inside the hospital where the two victims were taken;

5. The fact that the two injured limo victims reacted to being shot at the exact same time on the Zapruder Film.

With the above 5 things in place (despite the protests from CTers, who disagree with all of the points above, except for perhaps #3), the SBT practically solves itself.

Reprise.....

Quote

Who came up with the SBT? Was it a forensic ballistic expert or a lawyer?

"From the first moment that I heard that [Arlen] Specter had come up with the single-bullet theory, it made very little sense to me since the theory was so obvious that a child could author it. .... Since [the members of the Warren Commission staff] all knew that the bullet, fired from Kennedy's right rear, had passed through soft tissue in Kennedy's body on a straight line, and that Connally was seated to the president's left front, the bullet, after emerging from Kennedy's body, would have had to go on and hit Connally for the simple reason it had nowhere else to go. How could it be that among many bright lawyers earnestly focusing their minds on this issue, only Specter saw it? .... When I asked [Norman Redlich on September 6, 2005] if, indeed, Arlen Specter was the sole author of the single-bullet theory, his exact words were, "No, we all came to this conclusion simultaneously." When I asked him whom he meant by "we," he said, "Arlen, myself, Howard Willens, David Belin, and Mel Eisenberg"." --Vincent T. Bugliosi; Pages 302-303 of Endnotes in "Reclaiming History"