Tom Neal

I've been reading "Hear No Evil" by Donald B. Thomas, published in 2010. Probably everyone but me knew this, but I just discovered that the "stuck mike" was on Channel 1, the regular police frequency - NOT on Channel 2, the motorcade frequency. Obviously, this means that the stuck mike was NOT on the motorcade channel.

WHY would HB McLain, or any other motorcycle officer, be tuned to the regular police channel while riding in the motorcade? Perhaps momentarily, but not for five minutes. HBM was well aware that there was a stuck mike on Channel 1, so he would have immediately changed back to Channel 2, the Motorcade frequency, and now there would be a stuck mike on Channel 2, which NEVER happened. I've never heard this mentioned as a reason to think the stuck mike belonged to someone else.

Does anyone know if the bikes at the Trade Mart were using Channel 1 or Channel 2?

Tom

Tom:

As BBN's matching process was a manual one, it seemed reasonable to assume that current technology might allow quicker and more accurate comparison of the impulse patterns on the original recordings with those on the 1978 HSCA reconstruction recordings, with a view to reproduce BBN's pattern-matching work. To that end, a group of interested individuals came together in late 2010 in an effort to see if we could unravel some of the apparent inconsistencies in the acoustics evidence.

To make a very long story short, efforts were made to obtain all the original recordings and work-papers used by BBN in their work, which involved contacting the new owners of BBN and asking them to release any relevant material in their files (Dr Barger had by then retired). The CEO of BBN's new owners told me in October 2011 that all material they got from BBN relating to the BBN/HSCA work had either been destroyed or returned to the client (in this case the HSCA, or ultimately the U.S. government). My subsequent correspondence with the office of the Clerk of the House and also with NARA failed to find any of the material, with the result that the recordings and notes generated and used by BBN in their study of the acoustics evidence were most probably destroyed when Dr. Barger retired in early 2011. Without the BBN raw data It was therefore impossible for any further progress to be made in replicating BBN's work.

It's certainly no surprise that all the work was destroyed rather than send it the National Archives or a University where it would be available. It's impossible to prove the work was done properly when it is permanently unavailable. A shame that you were unable to work with the original material. I and no doubt many others appreciate the time you devoted to this task. Thanks for sharing this - I had no idea this data was destroyed.

However, Michael O'Dell subsequently tried to carry out the same replication exercise on the Weiss and Aschkenasy part of the process in 2012/2013, and he made the results of his work available on-line (I cannot post a link to it here for some reason, so just do a Google search for 'replicating weiss and aschkenasy' and you'll find it). I think Michael's work is the most recent work that has been carried out on this fascinating subject, and I believe you will find his article to be of interest/help to you.

For anyone else who is interested, I believe this it:

http://jfk-records.com/odell/WAReplication.html

Chris, thank you for the info and for pointing me to Michael O'Dell's work.

Tom

While reviewing the available info on the original Acoustical Analysis, I have found little information explaining precisely HOW the locus of this moving transmitter was determined, so I'm going to have to do a thorough read of the original report to the HSCA.

Thus far, it appears that a keyed microphone moving on Elm Street behind the Motorcade is required to prove the sounds on the tape are the actual gunfire. There is no hard photographic evidence of Hollis B. McClain's exact position at the required time. McClain is certain he was not in the required position, and for quite some time he has stated opinions contrary to the WC conclusions. He has no known reason to lie, but of course there's a chance that he could simply be mistaken. Officer Courson has been named as another possible "stuck mike" source. I've just started researching this possibility.

The acoustical science used in this analysis has been proven accurate by the long-term use of "Boomerang" technology by the US military to precisely locate enemy snipers. I've encountered no information from dissenting papers, etc. accusing the acoustical process itself to be faulty, nor has anyone proposed the original analysis contains mathematical errors.

There is enough hard evidence in this analysis to keep my hopes up. For example, each shot not only corresponds to the correct acoustical signature, but the chronological order of the sounds on the tape indicate a continuous movement along the motorcade route. i.e. The first sound occurring on the tape corresponds to one microphone, the second sound corresponds to a mike farther down the parade route, and so on. Additionally, the interval between the sounds on the tape match the interval of the gun shots. What are the odds of random static doing this at all, let alone at the correct time? IMO, due to the nature of the radio equipment; the timing, the bells, the crosstalk, etc. can neither prove nor disprove the validity of the analysis.

The question I'm left with is; why does demonstrated workable technology indicate a "stuck mike" where there is no motorcycle officer? This is the crux of those who dismiss the acoustical analysis.

I'm not aware of any DPD vehicles in the motorcade, other than the motorcycles and Curry's Lead Car, and they were not in the correct position. Anyway, what are the odds of an accidental "open mike" on the DPD frequency occurring when it did, and for as long as it did? Who else would have a police radio transmitter, and WHY would they have it? If someone in or near the motorcade other than DPD had a police radio TRANSMITTER, then the chances that it was accidentally "continuously keyed" are exactly zero.

If this continuous transmission at the worst possible time was actually "jamming" intended to facilitate the shooting itself and the escape of a number of conspirators, then a motorcycle in the right place at the right time is no longer a requirement. We do have "Umbrella Man's" sidekick who many including myself suspect was operating a radio - but he is in the wrong location. Could there have been a radio operator stationed at the corner across from the TSBD standing by to jamb the police frequency? How difficult would it have been to plant a transmitter inside a vehicle riding in the motorcade? Especially with DPD and/or SS cooperation. This would match all the requirements to "prove" the acoustic analysis was correct. But were there any vehicles in the correct position?

I have as yet done no research along these lines. Does anyone think this is a possible alternative to the "missing motorcycle?"

Tom

Tom:

I can't recall the exact details without digging through boxes of old files, but Carl Haber and his team felt they could get the best possible results in terms of clarity and completeness that could be extracted from the belts after 45 years, given that the belts were not stored correctly for much of that time (as I recall, NARA only got them in 1990 from the DOJ, who had been in possession of them since the HSCA had them back in 1978, and for most of that 112-year period they were apparently kept in an envelope in a filing-cabinet drawer!). As far as I know, the belts are today almost (if not completely) unplayable by conventional means, as they have become badly cracked and brittle with age, even if original Dictaphone playback equipment from that era could be found.

Chris.

Thanks, Chris that is the way I remember it, too. What a surprise that contrary evidence was treated so poorly...

Tom

Tom /Ron:

I honestly believe that the Haber/Berkeley project never got the required funding for purely financial/cost-justification reasons. At the time (2008-2009), I seem to recall that there were major cutbacks at NARA in terms of both staff and funds. I should add that there are good "preservation copies" of the belts available from NARA (Larry Sabato certainly had copies of these in 2013, when writing his book "The Kennedy Half Century"), but they are tape copies - this project was intended to create a digital copy of the crucial belt, in particular, which would outlast the tapes.

Chris.

Thanks for the info, Chris!

This is better news than hearing it was summarily dropped because the belt has been "proven useless."

As well as making an exact copy that wouldn't degenerate, didn't the project expect to get more data from the belt than was transferred to the tape versions? I believe that the process used to extract the data would actually extract data that couldn't be played by the dictabelt. New and more accurate data would be something to be feared, and therefor avoided.

Tom

Tom / Ron:

The study due to be done by a company in California to which you referred in posts #3 and #5 above was, I assume, the dictabelt restoration project which was due to be carried out by Carl Haber of the Physics Division at the Lawrence Berkeley Lab in California back in 2008-2009? That project was commissioned by NARA, and was intended to make a non-invasive, non-contact copy of the extant dictabelts by means of optical scanning - the objective being to create a useful, good-quality copy of the key belt which would be comparable or better than the existing tape copies. It should be emphasised, however, that the purpose of this work was to produce the best-quality digital copy of the belts only, and not to carry out any analytical work on the belts.

However, as of November 2009, the necessary paperwork to authorise funding to do the work had not been completed by NARA, and as far I am aware, no future work on the project was ever carried out after that date.

Chris.

Thanks for the info, Chris.

Sadly, that's about what I had expected to hear.

Gee, I wonder why someone has prevented NARA from performing the job it was created to do - preserving records.

Tom

Here's an interesting discussion of that topic.

Thank you, Greg, this is an interesting discussion.

Do you have a current opinion regarding the validity of the acoustic evidence? I'm still researching, and am on the fence...

Tom

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your thoughts, and I see I should be visiting you site more often!

Gary Mack was responsible for bringing the dicta belt recording to the attention of the HSCA. Why are we surprised that it was a straw man?

The dictabelt, like "badgeman" (as you also mention) absolutely could have been planned as straw men from their inception; or Mack et al MAY have produced them sincerely - at that time. Question: What's better than creating one more LN? Answer: Converting a former highly visible CT into a spokesman for the LNers. Mack was a known CT who could be bought off, and he was. Score a propaganda victory for the LNers.

The only reason I bring up the alternative of Mack starting out as a sincere CT rather than a LN "in sheep's clothing" is that I see Mack in the Judas role. To me, this is much worse than the alternative of a masquerade as a CT. He traded his soul for a better job, and more money. He is reveling in his current role as the television "face" of the LNers; unmasking the shameful CTs who seek to deceive the public. I say, SHAME ON YOU "Gary Mack."

Initially, the conspirators goal was to convince the public that "LHO Acting Alone" was the ONLY possibility. The WC Report was presented, and that goal was quickly beyond hope of retrieval due to the obvious flaws in the investigation, the evaluation/acceptance of evidence and in the reports conclusion. There is simply too much evidence of conspiracy that will not go away. They then realized that at best there would always be strong justifiable doubts in the public mind.

Their fallback goal was, as you say, to prevent any conclusive evidence of conspiracy. Because they could not produce enough evidence to counter the contrary claims, then they would produce/manufacture evidence that would garner strong attention, and then, as you say, be knocked down as planned, when the time was right. The public has been properly "programmed" to expect that any evidence for conspiracy will be "shown" to be false. An adequate number of straw men have fallen to balance the case for conspiracy, and the media has deemed the case unsolvable.

Despite the sincere belief in conspiracy by the majority, the public also believes the truth will never be officially recognized, so they accept defeat, and wonder why anyone still cares...

Tom

+

Tom,

This is not a book. It is the latest from Don Thomas, if interested.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?321702-4/acoustic-analysis-kennedy-assassination

chris

Thanks, Chris!

I'm about to click the link...

Tom

Here's an interesting discussion of that topic.

Thank you, Greg, this is an interesting discussion.

Do you have a current opinion regarding the validity of the acoustic evidence? I'm still researching, and am on the fence...

Tom

My research indicates that the company that did the DP analysis produced a device that has been used very effectively by the US military (e.g. in Iraq and Afghanistan) to detect the location of sniper fire. This equipment utilizes the identical mathematical process that was used to determine the location of shooters in DP.

Are you referring to the study done for the HSCA, or the one that was supposed to be done a few years ago by a company in California? As I recall, the national archives were supposed to send the dictabelt to the California company. But I have seen no references at all to this study. Did it never happen?

Hello Ron,

I'm referring to the HSCA study.

I too wonder what is happening with the dictabelt. It seems we should have heard something by now.

Tom

Gary Murr, on 21 Feb 2015 - 8:26 PM, said:

And of course, David, there is the last statement attributed to Elmer Todd in CE 2011 - that he, and he alone among those identified in this particular report/CE was able to identify C1 [399] as the bullet he received from Rowley based, it is further stated, upon "initials marked" on this same piece of ballistics evidence. As John Hunt long ago showed, and I personally can confirm, having handled CE 399, Elmer Todd's initials are not on C1.

Hello Gary,

Do you think the above indicates that Todd lied when he identified the bullet given him by Rowley and his initials were NOT on it at that time? Or do you think that Todd's initials WERE on the bullet at that time, and a different MC 6.5 was later substituted that did NOT have Todd's initials on it, but WAS fired from "LHO's" rifle so the two could be ballistically linked?

Tom

IMO CE399 was sitting in Rowley's desk and handed to Johnson in place of the bullet shown/given to him by Elmer Todd.

Hello David,

I'm confused. The passing of CE399 was in this order: Darrel Tomlinson, O.P. Wright, SA Richard Johnson, Chief James Rowley, SA Elmer Todd. Darrel Tomlinson, O.P. Wright, SA Richard Johnson and Chief James Rowley stated that CE399 was NOT the bullet they received. So, presumably, each of these fellows was given the actual bullet found on the stretcher. SA Todd states that CE399 *IS* the bullet he received from Chief Rowley because this bullet has his (Todd's) initials on it. With this information it is clear that only Rowley could have substituted an MC 6.5mm bullet for the actual bullet found on the stretcher. Is this correct?

You say that Rowley passed the substitute bullet on to Johnson. Did you mean to say Rowley passed it to Todd? Or am I missing something here? No surprise if I am...

Thanks,

Tom

DP Acoustic Analysis: Can anyone recommend the "best" book?

My research indicates that the company that did the DP analysis produced a device that has been used very effectively by the US military (e.g. in Iraq and Afghanistan) to detect the location of sniper fire. This equipment utilizes the identical mathematical process that was used to determine the location of shooters in DP.

If anyone has information contrary to the above, please LMK.

Due to the above, I'm convinced that the analysis process was valid. However, the law of "GIGO" (Garbage In Garbage Out) prevails.

At one time I used to know how the Acoustic Analysis team determined the location of the stuck microphone that allowed the gunshots in DP to be recorded on the police dictabelt recorder. If the location of the stuck mike was incorrect, then the entire study was invalidated - If I recall correctly.

Can anyone recommend the "best" book to explain how the location of the stuck mike was determined, and answers the "validity" question?

Thanks,

Tom

As far as McClain, well, he is been an open CT for a number of years. I spoke to him at the 2005 Lancer conference and he told me not only that he thought Kennedy was shot from the front, but that in his opinion the mafia was behind the assassination.

Pat,

Thanks for the reply. In his 2003 interview, McLain clearly states that the reason he thought JFK was shot from the front was from JFK's body movements on the Z film, not from anything that he saw in DP that day. Was this his opinion in 2005 when you spoke with him?

The interviewer in 2003 failed to ask him what the cycle "jocks" actually told the SS on the day of the assassination that was unacceptable to the SS. What the SS presented as fact was so objectionable to the "jocks" that they walked out the door. Did McLain discuss what the "jocks" were attempting to tell the SS had happened?

Tom

My talk with McClain was fairly brief. It is my recollection that he said that on the day of the shooting he had no idea what happened, but that over time he'd come to believe the fatal shot came from the front...I'm sorry I'm being so vague. I was not expecting to run into McClain at the banquet, and assumed that his appearance at the banquet signaled that he'd be making a public appearance, where his exact words could be recorded.

McClain made a similar appearance at a subsequent Lancer conference, BTW. At that time a researcher (Seamus Coogan?) talked to him on camera and put it up on youtube. Here it is:

Tom

As far as McClain, well, he is been an open CT for a number of years. I spoke to him at the 2005 Lancer conference and he told me not only that he thought Kennedy was shot from the front, but that in his opinion the mafia was behind the assassination.

Pat,

Thanks for the reply. In his 2003 interview, McLain clearly states that the reason he thought JFK was shot from the front was from JFK's body movements on the Z film, not from anything that he saw in DP that day. Was this his opinion in 2005 when you spoke with him?

The interviewer in 2003 failed to ask him what the cycle "jocks" actually told the SS on the day of the assassination that was unacceptable to the SS. What the SS presented as fact was so objectionable to the "jocks" that they walked out the door. Did McLain discuss what the "jocks" were attempting to tell the SS had happened?

Tom

Tom:

On April 14, 1982, Jim Bowles told Earl Golz of the Dallas Morning News that he had known "for several years" that the open mike belonged to "Beilharz or another policeman in the same area". The "other policeman" was almost certainly Willie Price. In the same DMN article, Les Beilharz said he met with Bowles in 1979, after H.B. McLain testified to the HSCA, at which time he listened to the DPD radio recordings for the first time. As a result of that, Beilharz contacted Prof. Norman Ramsey, chairman of the NAS Ramsey Panel which looked at the acoustics evidence and produced their report in May 1982. Beilharz told Ramsey that there was a 'good possibility' that his was the open microphone. Other than the Golz article, the only interview of Beilharz that I can recall right now was a phone interview he did with researcher Denis Morissette in 1993 (I think), but as far as I can recall, the subject of his alleged whistling wasn't mentioned.

Bowles' manuscript was written in 1979 (after the HSCA had finished its work), and as far as I know, Bowles is convinced that the open mic belonged to Price, although he doesn't say so specifically in the manuscript.

Hope this all makes some sense, and is of some help to you.

Chris.

Yes, thanks for your thorough explanation.

Does everyone agree that If the stuck mike was located at the Trademart as Bowles et al are proposing rather than in Dealey Plaza, then the results of the analysis are wrong, and the dictabelt sounds are not that of the actual assassination shots.

Tom

Can anyone tell me the name of this officer Les ??? at the Trademart?

"Les" is DPD 3-wheel motorcycle officer Leslie E. Beilharz, whose radio call number was "269". Beilharz called the Channel 1 radio dispatcher at 12:40 to tell him that he (Beilharz) was "clear" from his most recent assignment (at Industrial and Stemmons), and asked the dispatcher where he should go.

Chris, thank you for identifying Leslie E. Beilharz for me. Do you know if he was ever questioned as to whether that was him whistling on the dictabelt recording? In the 42 minute version of the interview I linked above, McLain states that he and Price did not identify Beilharz until McLain returned from his questioning by the HSCA. McLain says that JC Price told him not to tell anyone about Beilharz until he (Price) has a chance to talk to Beilharz.

McLain goes on to say that he never told anyone about Beilharz, so presumably if Price ever questioned him, McLain was unaware of it.

With reference to Malcolm Ward's follow-up post, with the excerpt from Jim Bowles' manuscript, the following is a list of the DPD officers identified only by the letters "A" through "K" by Bowles:

Officer "A" - Sgt. S. Ellis (using radio call # 150)

Officer "B" - W.G. Lumpkin (call # 152)

Officer "C" - D.L. Jackson (call # 138)

Officer "D" - B.J.Martin (call # 131)

Officer "E" - M. L. Baker (call # 134)

Officer "F" - J.W. Courson (call # 153)

Officer "G" - E. Jones (call # 293)

Officer "H" - C.J. Watts (call # 266)

Officer "I" - R.K. Higgins (call # 282)

Officer "J" - C.R. Hamilton (call # 283) or M.W. Perkins (#265)

Officer "K" - J.R. Mackey (call # 279)

Civilian "L" - Bill Newman

Chris, thanks for identifying everyone - that will save me a LOT of time.

A word of caution, however. Bowles refers to two different people as Officer "K". J.R. Mackey is the one who is identified in the Appendix of "Recollections" by the individual officers (pp. 135-6 in my copy of Bowles manuscript), but Bowles also refers to the officer with the open mike as Officer "K" (pp. 103-4 of the manuscript) - but this is clearly not Officer Mackey.

Chris, when was Bowles manuscript written? Who do you think Bowles believes is Officer"open mike"?

Thanks Again,

Tom

Interesting Tom, here are some Police Officer statements from November 22 1963.

Source: http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles6.html

Thanks Malcolm,

The reports from the officers are quite interesting to say the least.

Tom

Although I'm already aware of the above statement from McClain, in this 42 minute C-SPAN interview he is more explicit. This Oral History was sponsored by the Keepers of the Truth over at The Sixth Floor Museum. The interviewer does a thorough job right up until McLain tells him that SS called all the "motor jocks" together for an interview. SS told the officers what happened - the officers said "No - it happened this-a-way." SS refused to listen to them and repeatedly insisted it happened their way.

The officers told them if they weren't going to listen to them, then they were leaving, whereupon they "walked out the door." The interviewer then asks "What did they tell you happened?" McLaine doesn't respond, and the interviewer states, "I've never heard this before..."

So he is presented by a first-person source, with information that is unknown to him, and rather than ask McLain "What did you see happen?," he asks, "What did the SS want you to say?" We KNOW what the SS said. But does he follow up with 'What did the officers say happened?" No. His next question: "Did you have any other assignments that evening?" The next question was "Did you ever write an official statement?" McLain's reply, "No." McLain appears to reply with aggravation due to the memory of the SS behavior.

Here's a short clip I made of the above conversation:
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4528444/dpd-motocycle-officer-hb-mclain-07-16-2015

Following this short clip, "Mac" describes his HSCA questioning, and the fact that they would not let him listen to the dictabelt tape before his testimony. After returning from the HSCA, McLain and Sheriff JC Bowles investigated the sounds heard on the tape.

MacLain states unequivicaly that it was not his cycle with the stuck microphone-it was a 3-wheeler. According to McLain, the 2-wheeler and 3-wheeler sound NOTHING alike. Also, they recognized that the 3-wheeler officer was "Les ????" [sounds something like "Bileharse"] because he always whistled when he rode, and they heard him clearly.

Can anyone tell me the name of this officer Les ??? at the Trademart?

Les was located at the Trademart at this time. Responding to a question regarding the "bell" that was heard on the tape, McLain replies that he and Bowles discovered that the noise was caused by Les repeatedly riding over a loose manhole cover while patrolling his assigned area. They were able to repeat that sound. First the front wheels hit, and then the rear wheels, "Bong...Bong." McLain and Sheriff J.C. Bowles figured this out, but Bowles told McLain not to talk about it, and he never did.

Later in the interview, the interviewer redeems himself by following up on a question and not letting go. When asked if he believed Oswald acted alone, McLaine gives his story of what happened during the assassination. He believes JFK was shot from the Grass Knoll. Disappointingly, his only reason for believing this, is JFK's body movements that he saw on the Zap film.

Here is the full 40 minute interview:
http://www.c-span.org/video/?288319-1/kennedy-assassination-hb-mclain

Tom

Q: "Did you mount scopes on the 40.2 inch rifles?"
A: "No. The particular package deal Klein's was trying to market was the 36 inch carbine with a 4 power scope."

Note the RED UNDERLINED text in the document below from John Armstrong's files:

I would recommend as basic homework reading Manchester's research on this since he interviewed all the principals in regard to their movements and actions starting within months of the event.

Larry,

Considering the complexity of the issues you've presented, it's impossible for you to convey the meaning of an entire book in a few paragraphs, let alone ALL the research behind it as well. I'm sure it is at least somewhat frustrating for you. But thank you for trying, and for your patience in explaining your conclusions.

I am definitely looking forward to reading Surprise Attack. The subject you're covering is fascinating, and I am unaware of any one else who has presented more than speculation.

QUESTION: Is Manchester's research/interviews for "The Death of a President" available? I thought that much of it, or all of it, was still classified, or unavailable from the Kennedy family? Considering the 'access' that he was granted, I have to believe he was aware of a lot of things that were not put in the book for various reasons.

Considering the number of high-ranking people who were spreading lies, Manchester undoubtedly received 'bad' info from some, and it seems reasonable to assume that the Kennedy family insisted some things not be printed. After all, their public position was in agreement with the WC, although there was some degree of 'hedging' involved.

Aside from any censoring by the Kennedy family, do you think Manchester's book is a credible source of info? In other words, he left some stuff out, but what he did print was the truth, as he believed it?

Tom

Is it established with certainty that Klein's mounted a scope on the rifle alleged to be the murder weapon?

Just a question.

John,

I have a vivid memory of reading that when the FBI ordered a number of "Oswald" rifles with scopes for testing purposes, Klein's called back to ask them "how" they wanted the scopes mounted. They replied, 'the same way you mounted the scope on the "Oswald rifle", of course. Klein's technician responded that although they do mount scopes, they had never mounted one on that type of rifle. As I recall, this fellow did all of Klein's scope mounting, and he was not an actual gunsmith.

Unfortunately, I do not recall where I read this, but it was reported by someone who is well known in the JFK assasination community as a reliable source. If you'd like I can attempt to track down the source.

Tom

Hi Tom

I recall reading the same thing. Unfortunately, it does not make a lot of sense, from the viewpoint of the scope installer at Klein's.

The truth of the matter is this, all models of Carcano rifles, be they long rifles, short rifles, carbines, 6.5mm or 7.35mm, have the identical receivers, bolts and chambers on them, and fire the identical brass cartridge. In the case of the 7.35mm calibre short rifle, the neck of the cartridge is opened up for the wider bullet, and the case length trimmed back by 1 mm but, other than that, it is the same cartridge.

If Klein's had installed scopes on carbines, they would mount in the exact same way on C2766, which was a short rifle.

Hi Robert,

As I replied to Malcolm in an earlier post, I have no idea why they would ask. I couldn't agree with you more that there is only one way to mount the scope. But:

TO RE-QUOTE FROM MY REPLY TO MALCOLM: We don't know precisely what was said to Klein's when they placed the order, but (presuming Klein's actually did ask the Feds) they must have had some reason to request mounting instructions. I don't recall exactly when the scope was described as "mounted for a left-handed shooter," but I believe that was what the FBI inventory stated. If true, then they had thought that, or the Dallas PD did, from pretty much assassination day. Purely speculation on my part, but due to the above, suppose the Feds requested 91-38s with the scopes "mounted for a left-handed shooter?"

This implies something different than the normal mounting, and the Tech may have thought, as I would, how do you mount THIS scope for a left-handed shooter? So he called to confirm what they wanted.

Again, just speculation on my part,

Tom

Is it established with certainty that Klein's mounted a scope on the rifle alleged to be the murder weapon?

Just a question.

John,

I have a vivid memory of reading that when the FBI ordered a number of "Oswald" rifles with scopes for testing purposes, Klein's called back to ask them "how" they wanted the scopes mounted. They replied, 'the same way you mounted the scope on the "Oswald rifle", of course. Klein's technician responded that although they do mount scopes, they had never mounted one on that type of rifle. As I recall, this fellow did all of Klein's scope mounting, and he was not an actual gunsmith.

Unfortunately, I do not recall where I read this, but it was reported by someone who is well known in the JFK assasination community as a reliable source. If you'd like I can attempt to track down the source.

Tom

Why would the FBI have to tell Klein's where to mount the scope if Klein's normally mounted scopes on these rifles ?

Malcolm,

If you re-read the post, the FBI ordered Carcano 91/38 rifles and they wanted scopes mounted. The tech that mounts scopes for Kleins said they don't mount scopes on that rifle - meaning a 91-38. They do however, mount them on other models, such as the one in the advertisement that the WC decided Oswald had used to place his order.

As Robert says, they could only mount them one way - the same way they did on the OTHER rifles they sell. So why did they ask? We don't know precisely what was said to Klein's when they placed the order, but (presuming Klein's actually did ask the Feds) they must have had some reason to request mounting instructions. I don't recall exactly when the scope was described as "mounted for a left-handed shooter," but I believe that was what the FBI inventory stated. Purely speculation on my part, but suppose the Feds requested 91-38s with the scopes "mounted for a left-handed shooter?"

This implies something different than the normal mounting, and the Tech may have thought, as I would, how do you mount THIS scope for a left-handed shooter? So he called to confirm what they wanted.

Again, just speculation on my part,

Tom

The idea that LHO might have been a left-handed shooter comes up frequently. This is a photo from Robert Groden of 17 year old LHO at boot camp. As far as I've been able to determine, this is the only known photo of Lee firing a rifle:

Personally, I'm left-handed, but right-eye dominant. If I shoot left-handed, with the target perfectly aligned in the sights, I don't hit any part of a standard target when firing at a typical distance. Right-handed I do just fine.

I have two sons. The right-handed one is left-eye dominant, the left-handed one is right eye dominant. As an alternative to switching their brains, the righty shoots lefty, and the lefty shoots righty. Regarding eye dominance, regardless of hand preference, statistically speaking, the vast majority of us are right-eye dominant.

Left-handed friends of mine who were in the military at the same time as Ozzie, or later, were allowed to fire left-handed. They too could not hit the target, but no one attempted to switch them to firing right-handed. The concept of eye-dominance was not common knowledge back then. When I checked using the simple cover-one-eye method, every one of these lefties was 'right-eyed'. Because it had always bothered them, most went right out to the shooting range and reported that by firing right-handed, they now had no trouble hitting a target.

I believe Lee was right-handed, or he would be shooting left-handed in the above photo. He may well have been one of the rare left-eye dominant people, and that certainly would account for his poor marksmanship, but I don't believe that (as Robert P. said) was a factor in the scope mounting. There simply IS no other way to mount it.

Tom

Is it established with certainty that Klein's mounted a scope on the rifle alleged to be the murder weapon?

Just a question.

John,

I have a vivid memory of reading that when the FBI ordered a number of "Oswald" rifles with scopes for testing purposes, Klein's called back to ask them "how" they wanted the scopes mounted. They replied, 'the same way you mounted the scope on the "Oswald rifle", of course. Klein's technician responded that although they do mount scopes, they had never mounted one on that type of rifle. As I recall, this fellow did all of Klein's scope mounting, and he was not an actual gunsmith.

Unfortunately, I do not recall where I read this, but it was reported by someone who is well known in the JFK assasination community as a reliable source. If you'd like I can attempt to track down the source.

Tom