Robbie Robertson
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Posts posted by Robbie Robertson
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4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:
Robert, starting at 1:07, I don't hear Blakey saying that Oswald was intelligence. Here's how I heard it:
BLAKEY: We have to ask, "What are we talking about?" Are we talking about whether Oswald shot Kennedy and can we determine that through CIA files or Hoover files - of the FBI?
RR: The question is, "Was LHO intelligence or not?"
BLAKEY: YEAH. The Warren Commission painted a story of Oswald as a loner. . .
My point is that when Blakey said "YEAH" there, I don't think he was answering your question, "Was LHO intelligence or not?" Rather, I think Blakey was answering his own open question: "What are we talking about." You clarified that for him, and so he said, "YEAH".
My evidence is that Blakey continued with his observation that the WC decided that Oswald killed JFK, but could not figure out WHY! That is, was Oswald part of a conspiracy (known by the CIA or FBI) or was he just a lone nut?
By the way, I think his first question was crucial, namely, "Can we determine that Oswald shot JFK through CIA files or Hoover's FBI files?" That's the key question of December 2022, because when (and if) President Biden releases the final JFK top secret files, will we find the answer in CIA files or in FBI files?
For 58 years, I reckon that most JFK researchers have been scouring CIA files to blame the CIA and have failed miserably to find any smoking gun. Hundreds of JFK researchers after 58 years! It's a pitiful record.
I predict that when all the JFK top secret files are finally released, the answer will emerge from FBI files.
So, you might ask -- "Was Oswald then an FBI agent?" After decades of research, I find no evidence that he was. On the contrary. I say Oswald was a Zelig.
Oswald shot at General Walker in April 1963 because he was hanging out with George De Mohrenschildt (who informed for the CIA, but was not a CIA agent). George hated General Walker (cf. I Am A Patsy! 1977).
Then, Oswald moved to New Orleans where he began hanging out with David Ferrie, Guy Banister, and Clay Shaw, who were trying to infiltrate the FPCC in order to get closer to Fidel Castro (to kill him).
In early 1963 Oswald was on the left. In mid-1963 Oswald was on the right.
Oswald was a young, 23-year-old Zelig. He defected to the USSR at the age of 19. Then he realized he couldn't stand it and he returned. He was young and immature. He wasn't a nut. He was bright -- but he couldn't get a break.
And to your point of him saying yeah, I asked him six time to make sure I clarified if Oswald was intelligence and if you notice at the 1/hr 10 min mark as I’m talking about Oswald intelligence connection he said yeah in the middle of me talking agreeing on what I was saying.
The beginning of the episode he stopped and corrected me when I got something wrong, so the idea of him saying yeah as a response but not answering the question is ridiculous, I asked him over five times and even clarified it further to make sure and if he didn’t agree he wouldn’t say yes or yeah after I asked the question and you can see that when he talks about the cia involvement in which he repeated that the government didn’t do it.
Then he even says at the 1/hr 22 min mark this is speculation but some possibilities and all were ways he could have been used, who speculates if they don’t agree he would have just said no and moved to a different question
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I think the importance is the first sentence I started it off with which is Oswald was intelligence.
The rest of the episode is him saying the warren commission painted a story for the public and his investigation was hindered by the cia max fbi.
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16 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:
What I meant was that while Blakey may have known these were master assassins, from a legal point of view he could have just called them 'associates' of Marcello and pointed out their past and let the public make the connection that these 'associates' had the capability of being the assassins of JFK.
I haven't read Blakey's book. Maybe he names them in that. I don't know.
Hermino Diaz Garcia and Virgilio Gonzalez
so falls in line more with the operation 40 theory
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6 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:
What I meant was that while Blakey may have known these were master assassins, from a legal point of view he could have just called them 'associates' of Marcello and pointed out their past and let the public make the connection that these 'associates' had the capability of being the assassins of JFK.
I haven't read Blakey's book. Maybe he names them in that. I don't know.
He didn’t remember the names but he learned it from Cuban intelligence which he said in the last five min
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26 minutes ago, Ken Davies said:
Your original post says assassins not associates. That is a major difference.
He said two master assassins
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18 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:
Thanks again Gene. I must have read 'Helter Skelter' many moons ago. I'm just through the first 100 pages of 'Chaos' and already it's becoming quite a profound read.
It’s better to hear him talk about it
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4OXGSwuHYf0gHtJxGWIbLL?si=nrdgvoJeS4SjPaycFFH1NA
and the documents here
https://atwaatwar.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/the-vince-bugliosi-story-16-3-mb.pdf
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You can skip 35 min but he admitted Oswald was intelligence at the 1hr 7min mark
G. Robert Blakey is the nation's foremost authority on the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization Act (RICO), has served on the Notre Dame Law School faculty for more than 30 years. He teaches in the areas of criminal law and procedure, federal criminal law and procedure, terrorism, and jurisprudence. Blakey was Chief Counsel and Staff Director to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations from 1977 to 1979, which investigated the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. under the direction of Louis Stokes. Blakey also helped Stokes draft the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992. He and Richard Billings, the editor of the final report of the Committee, would later write two books about the assassination.
Out Of The Blank #1264 - G. Robert Blakey
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Dale M. Brumfield is a Journalist, Author, Cultural Archaeologist and Anti-Death Penalty Advocate who has written over thirteen books dealing with various issues of press and human rights. Dale is the author of "Independent Press in D.C. and Virginia: An Underground History" which details the nation's capital and the state of Virginia were a hotbed of political and social turmoil that marked the 1960s and 1970s. The area saw anti-Vietnam War protests, civil rights marches and students clamoring for a cultural revolution. Underground publications in D.C. and Virginia sprang up to document the radical change and question the "straight media." Off Our Backs led the charge for women's equality. The Gay Blade fought for the rights of homosexuals. Even the FBI began infiltrating the underground press movement by planting informants and creating fake magazines to attract suspicious "radicals."
Out Of The Blank #1259 - Dale M. Brumfield
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5 minutes ago, George Govus said:
My introduction to the history of CIA interest in LSD came in the form of Acid Dreams, a social history of psychedelia by Lee and Shlain in 1998.
Ron, the Grateful Dead released "Truckin'" in 1970, a bit later on than the period which inspired Wolfe to write The Kool-Aid Acid Test. Knowledgeable folks said Wolfe's book would have been better if Wolfe had himself "drunk the kool-aid." For a song that clearly was influenced by the Dead's tenure as the Acid Test house band, you want to listen to "The Other One," the meaty center of the song suite called "That's It For The Other One."
Check out David Blavk and his books on lsd and the weather underground he’s been on my show twice and his books cover a lot and had me interested in Timothy Leary I did a few episodes on but nobody wants to touch the MKULTRA stuff. David talbot and me went into it a bit but names ive seen across various documents related to mkultra are
Ewen Cameron
Sydney Gottlieb
Joylon West
The Central Intelligence Agency drugged American citizens with- out their knowledge or consent. It used university facilities and per- sonnel without their knowledge. It funded leading researchers, often without their knowledge.
These institutes, these individuals, have a right to know who they
are and how and when they were used. As of today, the Agency itself
refuses to declassify the names of those institutions and individuals, quite appropriately, I might say, with regard to the individuals under the Privacy Act. It seems to me to be a fundamental responsibility to notify those individuals or institutions, rather. I think many of them were caught up in an unwitting manner to do research for the Agency. Many researchers, distinguished researchers, some of our most outstanding members of our scientific community, involved in this network, now really do not know whether they were involved or not, and it seems to me that the whole health and climate in terms of our university and our scientific and health facilities are entitled to
that response.and that’s here
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/hearings/95mkultra.pdf
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John potash and Stephen kinzer on my show briefly mentioned this but you can find Gottlieb was used in some of the Assassination attempts on Castro and lumumba
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/4183168/DCI-LTR-TO-U-S-SENATE-RE-SECOND-SECRETARY-OF.pdf
also found this which is interesting if you look at the mkultra stuff
https://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/22409199-oswald-and-lsd
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They had quite a few amount of safes and one that had two sets of combinations with hsca staff that had one and cia with another.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22594379/hsca-internal-security-problem.pdf
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22684413/hsca-security.pdf
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The part where he said two things of why they might be keeping documents
1. if a name is included and has not been cleared for release but In this case everyone is practically dead. So he said that wouldn’t be the case
2. whatever they were using back then is still used in intelligence operations now so not to expose the secrets of these agencies to foreign adversaries
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2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
This is absolutely infuriating. I met Shermer and exchanged several emails with him. I presented him with page after page of info proving JFK's and Connally's wounds were not in a straight line, and that all the books and TV shows claiming as much were frauds. Rather than refute these points, he responded by telling me that you get lost in the minutiae when you look at such things, and that the overall picture suggests Oswald, so we didn't need to worry about the details regarding who was sitting where, etc. Now, this POS tells Rogan he believes in the SBT because they were in a straight line, etc. Which I proved to him wasn't true and which he at that time said didn't really matter. Son of a B!
P.S. He also misrepresented the results of the mock trial. He said they voted to convict Oswald because there was no evidence pointing to anyone else. This wasn't exactly true. They thought there was sufficient evidence to convict Oswald. But when queried afterwards the majority said they believed Oswald was part of a conspiracy. This drove Bugliosi nuts. He won the battle but lost the war. So he spent much of the next 20 years ranting onto yellow paper, and released Reclaiming History to show these jurors they were wrong.
P.P.S. After they stopped talking about the JFK assassination, the conversation actually got interesting. There is much to like about Shermer, which is why I talked to him after one of his presentations, and why I thought he might be open to actual evidence on the case. The dude clearly has a blind spot.
He was on my show and you can notice one thing he does is bring examples of a bunch of things that aren’t relative to the point or question that is being addressed. Plus i don’t care if you are left or right or whatever your politics are but the extreme conservatism boiled out in the conversation in this episode which I just tuned out
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I was gonna have shermer back on my show to talk about his book addressing the JFK Assassination and glad Joe had him back on and brought it up out the gate
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For anyone to see that film who doesn’t know about mkultra would be like wow that’s crazy and walk away instead of looking at any of these
https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/research/stanley.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Midnight_Climax
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254970.shtml
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/brainwashed-mkultra
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/hearings/95mkultra.pdf
https://therealnews.com/cia-targeted-black-americans-for-mkultra-drug-experimentation-new-study-says
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/mkultra
https://theintercept.com/2019/11/24/cia-mkultra-louis-jolyon-west/
https://bigthink.com/the-past/mkultra-cia-lsd/https://www.mcgilltribune.com/mind-control-mcgill-mk-ultra/
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB122/index.htm
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1 minute ago, John Kowalski said:
Did this film give you the impression that the real purpose of these drug trials was to do an experiment at the behest of the CIA? This is why MK Ultra is so insidious, people were offered experimental treatments, they thought they were been treated for their problems, but the real purpose was to determine if LSD could be used by the CIA. That is why the US government paid the victims $75,000 in compensation.
There was a scene where a man is hanging from a rafter and was tortured, another scene where a prostitute is plying her client with LSD, and all you do is focus on one victim who did not have a lobotomy.
One victim is all I focus on? What about drugging people without their knowledge in random places like operation midnight climax or forcing people in prisons that also Stephen kinzer writes about.
look up when the cia started using lsd on people it was way before the date they said in the movie and we know that from Joylon West wiki on brainwashing war victims with lsd. This film could have just focused on real documents and cases we know about instead of light playing the real tragedy
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The top review on Screen Rant
The film is to the point and does not worry about historical accuracies, focused on making an entertaining product instead. The performances are understated but brimming with talent; the actors leave no stone unturned. As a director, Sorrentino knows what he wants onscreen and gets it there. From LSD therapy to German mind control, MK Ultra has what it takes to tackle its subject matter and then some.
German mind control and not worrying about historical accuracy that’s what you want in film about mkultra no American government involvement and not historically accurate
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42 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:
Have to disagree, movie shows many victims of this program and its primary purpose was not to save people from getting a lobotomy.
The movie does not depict anything more than a few drug trials where the people were willing participants in a effort to heal their mental illnesses. Then proceeds to act like a rogue funding individual was responsible hence the ending, where’s the government handpicking psychiatrists from institutions like Yale and harvard
Sydney Gottlieb or Joylon West and Ewen Cameron?
this movie acted strictly observational and did not portray the real harm of mkultra thus shouldn’t be titled as such
wormwood isn’t even a detailed report on mkultra more about Frank Olsen and his death that his son is suing the cia about and that can tell you more than the film that is titled Mkultra
they literally had a scene where a phone call happened as a lobotomy began to stop it and enlist the kid in the new program using lsd. Clearly sending a message like hey this is better than a lobotomy
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This movie was not good at all I saw it on the 7th but it completely made it seem like drugging people was a experimental treatment that was saving people from getting a lobotomy. They never mentioned the force experimentation in prisons or any of the abuses against human ethics
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Posted this here because of spotters at educational university’s some that had Fair play committees
Daniel Golden is a senior editor at ProPublica, a non-profit website for investigative reporting. His latest book "Spy Schools": How The CIA, FBI, and Foreign Intelligence Secretly Exploit America's Universities, the book reveals that globalization—the influx of foreign students and professors and the outflow of Americans for study, teaching, and conferences abroad—has transformed U.S. higher education into a front line for international spying. The FBI and CIA reciprocate, tapping international students and faculty as informants. Universities ignore or even condone this interference, despite the tension between their professed global values and the nationalistic culture of espionage.
Out Of The Blank #1214 - Daniel Golden
https://youtu.be/04wZO9gSycA
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On 9/17/2022 at 2:02 AM, Ron Bulman said:
So, we end up with Dr. Jolyon West programing a US Soldier to rape and kill a three year old, with no memory of it. Put to death himself for it. In the name of MKULTRA
One thing to understand about this program is that the three year old girl who died was not on purpose.
using lsd and drugs were Intended to brain wash but it was failed because it was unpredictable on what would affect who in different ways. But the program became a way to use lsd to shatter someone’s reality if you look at people who were being used on in the beginning and towards the end all fit a certain description despite personality disorders but just mental health issues in general.
military were tested on because they work for them and was a bonus if you had a headache issue like in the three year old girl case where you are seeking any sort of treatment for your headaches including experimental. Look into the dark history of psychiatry and just like mkultra they tested at prisons and mental institutions because they would be taken less serious than a candidate that was a part of the general public.
I’ve seen some documents on what they have on mkultra but I prefer more documentation in most cases and for this one besides the hearing on mkultra where joylon west lied and threatened to sue anyone who said he was involved till he died, Tom O’Neil who exposed some stuff on bugilosi also got foia files on the correspondence from west to Gottlieb who ran the program. That stuff wasn’t disclosed because it was top secret which sucks but thank god for journalists who are doing the work to get this known.
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Timothy Jay is a psychology professor emeritus at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. He has been conducting research on the science of swearing since the 1970s. A world-renowned expert in cursing, Dr. Jay maintains an active schedule of research, writing and speaking. He has published numerous books and chapters on cursing, and a textbook for Prentice Hall on The Psychology of Language.
Out Of The Blank #1049 - Timothy Jay
https://youtu.be/9q_LnR7tTAk -
6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Chris B.-
Certainly you could be right.
What I am saying is that the Manchurian Candidate field seeks sketchy.
Even Daniel Brown has a promotional aspect to his career. https://www.drdanielpbrown.com/
I do not think asking for replicable experiments is too much to ask in medical sciences.
You know, people now say there are UFOs. But we have yet to see a single authentic photo or video of a UFO.
We get the grainy infra-red or radar images, and who knows if they can be gimmicked by bored Navy personnel.
Webcams are everywhere, and certainly could be put on airplanes. Still no images.
Well, so it goes.
People tried but hard when we are quick in labeling conspiracy
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/montreal/2018/5/20/1_3938447.html
How Kooky was Vincent Bugliosi ?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Here’s the full
https://atwaatwar.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/the-vince-bugliosi-story-16-3-mb.pdf